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On 10/13/2020 at 2:41 AM, Elric Galad said:

He's the god of slow destruction. Fire isn't "his stuff", but it is still about destruction after all so it's not clearly opposed to his beliefs.

to be clear, rymrgand is about entropy and decay, not destruction: thematically it seems to be all plugged into the (real-life) theory of the heat death of the universe. 

to that end, fire seems very counter to that - fire is thematically is linked to industry and creation (this theme is stronger in poe1 with abydon and magran), whereas ice is more thematically linked into everything slowly getting to a point where no more work can ever be done again. while his portfolio doesn't explicitly exclude fire, it's not a coincidence that basically everything related to rymrgand in both poe1 and poe2 and in the supplemental lore is always about ice, cold, and winter.

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2 hours ago, thelee said:

to be clear, rymrgand is about entropy and decay, not destruction: thematically it seems to be all plugged into the (real-life) theory of the heat death of the universe. 

to that end, fire seems very counter to that - fire is thematically is linked to industry and creation (this theme is stronger in poe1 with abydon and magran), whereas ice is more thematically linked into everything slowly getting to a point where no more work can ever be done again. while his portfolio doesn't explicitly exclude fire, it's not a coincidence that basically everything related to rymrgand in both poe1 and poe2 and in the supplemental lore is always about ice, cold, and winter.

Yep but I still feel like healing would be even further from his portfolio. Fire itself may not be very Rymrgandish, but ashes might tolerably be so. I wasn't suggesting to give his priest fire spells but that healing spells should be removed in priority (which I don't think would be good balance-wise)

Edited by Elric Galad
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Now an additional suggestion :

If you want a mod to shine, it requires having a bit more content, especially when it comes to Priest subclasses which have been already modded a lot (but with an usual power-creeping tendancy).
What is described in this thread are the most "reasonable" changes I've seen so far. The purpose is clear but may fall under the radar.

My idea for (balanced) new content would be to add the 4 missing God subclasses : Galawain, Abydon, Hylea and Ondra.

For consistency, it should also make Rymrgand playable.

I'm not advocating for new subclasses in general, but for priest it would make so much sense !
(And to be honnest, a similar package would be great for Godlikes too, but that requires graphical models so it might be more complicated)

Edited by Elric Galad
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I'm still not sure if Galawain has any Priests in the first place. Every time you discover some place sacred to Galawain it's always Druids hanging around and acting like Priests of Galawain. Maybe a more "modern" interpretation of Galawain could bring forth a fitting Priest subclass? 

His aspects are:

  • Seeker God
  • Clever Hound
  • Lord of the Hunt
  • Father of Monsters
  • The Changeling

and his portfolio:

  • Pursuit
  • Discovery
  • Perseverance
  • The Hunt
  • Assassins
  • Wilderness
  • Predatory Beasts

I marked the ones green of which I think they could be focused on in a more modern worship of Galawain which doesn't include or does not focus on tribal/archaic/beat/plant stuff. It sounds a lot like a Bounty Hunter Priest then.  :) Which would quite nice given that bounties are an integral part of PoE and Deadfire. 
But maybe also something that is more like an Explorer Priest, seeking lost secrets and knowledge, discovering mysteries, hunting for artefacts - the opposite to aspects of Wael and Ondra and no friend of the Hand Occult and Lead Key I would assume. Or even a spy! 
The spell/ability portfolio could simply cover all of those three aspects and add a bit of beast and traditioal hunting stuff for good measure - it's Galawain after all. ;) Taste of the Hunt seems to be a sure thing...? Most obvious Spiritual Weapon still might be the Hunting Bow, right? Too bad it's alswys only one of those. :( 

The rest of the missing priest subclasses are more straightforward I think. 

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10 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I'm still not sure if Galawain has any Priests in the first place. Every time you discover some place sacred to Galawain it's always Druids hanging around and acting like Priests of Galawain. Maybe a more "modern" interpretation of Galawain could bring forth a fitting Priest subclass? 

Yup, but  that's because it saved Obsidian from having to implement the subclass I guess

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Hey @Elric Galad- thanks so much for the suggestions :) I'm kind of nervous because it's my first time modding POE2... I had actually intended to add the additional priest subclasses as you suggest. Was gonna be a surprise :)

Very kindly, @NocturnalTrance agreed to let me use the content and assets of his/her excellent 'More Priest Subclasses' mod (https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/159) as a basis for Abydon, Hylea and Ondra. I've made quite a few changes to them to fit my interpretation, but some (e.g. Abydon) remain similar.

I should hopefully have a first version of everything out reasonably soon. Got most of the progression table changes in place now.

For reference - I made a few additional changes to the vanilla subclasses as well. Elric, I managed to make your original suggestion work of having none of the automatic subclass spells be priest spells - which I much prefer. This is what I decided on in the end:

  Berath Eothas Gaun Magran Rymrgand Skaen Wael Woedica
Lv1 Touch of Rot Sunbeam Blessed Harvest Fan of Flames Touch of Rot Antipathetic Field Arcame Veil Writ of Engagement
Lv2 Necrotic Lance Light of the Dawnstar Vile Thorns Combusting Wounds Blizzard Escape Curse of Blackened Sight Recall Agony
Lv3 Infestation of Maggots Pain Block Autumn's Decay Ray of Fire Spreading Plague Pain Link Mirrored Image Writ of Consumption
Lv4 Noxious Burst Rejoice Comrades! Wicked Briars Ironskin Blast of Frost Finishing Blow Llengrath’s Displaced Image Fealty
Lv5 Plague of Insects Inspired Beacon Wall of Thorns Flame Shield Death Ring Shadowing Beyond Confusion Writ of War
Lv6 Rot skulls Sunlance Garden of Life Torrent of Flame Disintegration Prisoners Turned on their Captors Arkemyr’s Wondrous Torment Gavel
Lv7 Rusted Armor Weather the Storm Lashing Vine Godhammers' Shards Entropy Rebellion! Gaze of the Adragan Writ of Sorcery
Lv8 Symbol of Berath Symbol of Eothas Symbol of Eothas Symbol of Magran Symbol of Rymrgand Symbol of Skaen Synbol of Wael Haunting Chains
Lv9 Hand of Berath Light of Eothas Pollen Patch Magran’s Might Call of Rymrgand Revenge of Skaen Blessing of Wael Writ of Mending
                 
  Abydon Galawain Hylea Ondra   Druid Renamed Abilities  
Lv1 Flames of the White Forge Charm Beasts Talon's Reach Ondra's Whip   Wizard Light of the Dawnstar The Moon's Light
Lv2 Blade of the White Forge Taste of the Hunt Winter Wind The Moon's Light   Priest Godhammers' Shards Minoletta's Piercing Burst
Lv3 Twin Stones Stag's Horn Avian Familiars Shard of Ionni Brathr   Chanter Rebellion! They Slew Forth a River of Red
Lv4 Ironskin Wild Sprint Deleterious Alacrity Returning Storm   Cipher Fealty Dominate Mind
Lv5 Calling the World's Maw Marked for the Hunt Cleansing Wind Overwhelming Wave   Paladin Gavel Concelhaut's Crushing Doom
Lv6 Embrace the Earth Talon Hunter's Claw Discordant Melody Moonwell   Rogue Flames of the White Forge Flames of Devotion
Lv7 Abydon's Hammer Bow of Galawain Avenging Storm Relentless Storm   Fighter Abydon's Hammer Concelhaut's Crushing Doom
Lv8 Unbending Trunk With Furious Vengeance! Tornado Symbol of Ondra   Barbarian Bow of Galawain Caedebald's Blackbow
Lv9 Enchanted Armoury Panther's Leap Eld Nary's Curse Avenging Storm   Ranger Discordant Melody Amplified Wave
            Unique    

Some important notes:

  • Every subclasses' auto spells are now 'non-priest' spells
  • We have missed out on 'Holy Meditation' and 'Salvation of Time' for Berath as a consequence (but they can always be picked during level-up).
  • I wanted to try giving one class in the game access to 'Avenging Storm' at PL7 - since it opens up a lot of fun multiclassing. This is the Priest of Hylea. If people don't like - happy to change
  • Same as the above for 'Bow of Galawain' at PL7 (Caedewald's Blackbow). This should open some fun multiclass options for Priests of Galawain.

Incarnates:

  • Berath: Usher, Pallid Knight
  • Eothas: 3 Dawnbringers
  • Gaun: 3 Dawnbringers (Added this)
  • Magran: Magran
  • Rymrgand: Scourge
  • Skaen: Effigy
  • Wael: Eyes
  • Woedica: Effigy (will add as a Placeholder) - any ideas for the Strangler?
  • Abydon: 'Ancient Instruments of Death'
  • Galawain: Aspect of Galawain
  • Hylea: 'Great Wyrm Flew O'er the Mountains' (Sky Dragon)
  • Ondra: 2 High Tide Monks + 1 Crest Knight

Spiritual Weapons:

  • Ondra: Low Tide Fists
  • Hylea: Harp of Hylea (Warbow)
  • Abydon: Blade of the White Forge (may change this to a Hammer of the White Forge)
  • Galawain: TBD, probably a spear
  • [I'd like to change Magran's to an Arquebus at some point as well if possible]

Additional Changes:

  • All Priests can choose 'Secrets of Rime' at level up. (Rymrgand can choose 'Scion of Flame' for symmetry)
  • All Priests lose access to PL9 abilities other than those specific to their deity. Each priest now only has 2 level XI abilities - a 'deity specific' spell and an incarnate summon.

Cheers again for all the support :) 

 

Edited by bell88
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Woedica : Concelhaut Crushing Doom was my idea but more on level VIII. Haunting Chain (BPM version) is a bit too much since it is meant to be the ultimate CC by the ultimate single target CC class and Woedicans would get it even sooner.
You could go (renamed) Bitter Mooring on Tier VI (Woedica likes immobilizing stuff) and Crushing Doom on Tier VIII.

Abydon : Unbending is the key ultimate Fighter ability. I don't think it's wise to give it to another class. You should go Sundering blow instead (even if Tier IX, it's only 2 discipline, so it makes sense on Tier VIII as a bit better Rust).
I don't think it's good for 2 gods to have the same spell on different level, so maybe not Crushing Doom. Maybe Power Strike ?

(faster mode)

Galawain : Wild Sprint on Tier IV is too bad.
Hunter's Claw is too weird mechanic to be used as a spell. 
Blackbow shall not be put on Tier VII ! It would be abusable by Multiclass.
Panther's Leap Tier IX is a bit too high.
Furious Vengeance : Invocation worth more than usual level. Swap with Panther's Leap. Still a bit generous but okay.
I like Marked Prey has an unique trait. Maybe Tier IV

Hylea : 
Avenging Storm shall not be put on Tier VII ! It would be abusable by Multiclass.

Ondra :
Nothing bad, but Moonwell, Relentless Storm and Avenging Storm should not be that high Tier.
Maybe remove the Fragment spell and move down everything 1 less tier. No idea for Tier VII and IX for the moment. Missile Salvo ?

Incarnate :
Don't forget that all Incarnate joins Teams, not Party. Duration shall depend on their number (or they would be too powerful).
Woedica : No idea but Skaen would feel weird. No Incarnate is an option, but you need other abilities then...

Galawain : Compared to Druid Version, this one would be less good (join Team, not party, PL penalty). Suggestion : you could have this one give +1PL instead of a malus. That would be unique but consitent with Galawain fluff.
Hylea : Check if this one is technically doable. And don't forget to balance it. You can go for a couple of non-upgraded Drakes if it doesn't work. (adult Dragon can be suspiciously OP)
Ondra : same as Hylea. The other mod has a spell that summons ice clone. 3 of them for 20s would be a good enough incarnate. 


Weapons :
Galawain : go for a pike. It will save you the trouble of dealing with the 1-handed thingy.

Edited by Elric Galad
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Thanks for keeping the suggestions coming @Elric Galad - this is helpful, I think we're getting there. I've moved Crushing Doom to PL8 for Woedica and Added Bitter Mooring at PL6 (Its called 'Never Far From the Queen' which I think works well!). I've reworked Abydon exactly as you suggest as well. I've moved 'Bow of Galawain' and 'Avenging Storm' back up to PL8 since you suggest they're too abusable for multi-classes. (I just wanted to float the idea since I know in the past @Boeroerhas suggested that multi-classes losing Avenging Storm limits some build variety).

The current status is then:

  Abydon Galawain Hylea Ondra
Lv1 Flames of the White Forge Charm Beasts Talon's Reach Ondra's Whip
Lv2 Abydon's Hammer Taste of the Hunt Winter Wind The Moon's Light
Lv3 Twin Stones Stag's Horn Avian Familiars Returning Storm
Lv4 Ironskin Marked for the Hunt Deleterious Alacrity Overwhelming Wave
Lv5 Calling the World's Maw Plague of Insects Cleansing Wind Relentless Storm
Lv6 Embrace the Earth Talon Ram's Sprint Discordant Melody Cleansing Waters
Lv7 Power Strike Panther's Leap Wilting Wind Her Tears Fell Like Rain
Lv8 Sundering Blow Bow of Galawain Avenging Storm Symbol of Ondra
Lv9 Enchanted Armoury With Furious Vengeance! Tornado Eld Nary's Curse

Abydon:

  • I think we're basically done here (I'll eventually try to change the spiritual weapon to a hammer to account for the loss of a 'hammer' in crushing doom)

Galawain:

  • This one is causing me some trouble.
  • Moved Mark of the Hunt to PL4 as you suggested
  • Replaced Wild Sprint with the more powerful Ram's Sprint and put this at PL6
  • Added a powerful 'Beasts' spell in 'Plague of Insects'
  • 'Bow of Galawain' now PL8, and 'With Furious Vengeance!' at PL9 as discussed.
  • I put 'Panther's Leap' at PL7 - do we think this is too strong to be PL7? (If yes - what could replace it?)
  • Thoughts on swapping 'Charm Beasts' for 'Nature's Mark'?

Hylea:

  • Moved Avenging Storm to PL8
  • Added Wilting Wind at PL7. I personally don't think this is too strong for PL7, but I'd be interested in people's thoughts.
  • I've considered swapping 'Deleterious Alacrity' for 'Her Revenge Swept Across the Land'? (since I'd like to give Hylea another electricity type spell) - again I'd be interested in people's thoughts.

Ondra:

  • Loses Avenging Storm (The storm spells should be split between her and Hylea - so Hylea gets this one)
  • Bumped everything down a tier as discussed
  • Moonwell -> Cleansing Waters (from Nocturnal's Mod)
  • The PL7 ability is taken by 'Her Tears Fell Like Rain'. This invocation is normally at this power level, but if it's still too strong I'll swap it for 'Seven Nights She Wept'. The fluff of sadness and tears here is perfect for Ondra.
  • 'Eld Nary's Curse' at PL9. Again perfect for Ondra (due to the ice damage and especially the fluff around a Sailor's Curse)
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9 hours ago, bell88 said:

I've moved Crushing Doom to PL8 for Woedica and Added Bitter Mooring at PL6 (Its called 'Never Far From the Queen' which I think works well!). 

Perfection

Quote

The current status is then:

 

Galawain:

  • This one is causing me some trouble.
  • Moved Mark of the Hunt to PL4 as you suggested
  • Replaced Wild Sprint with the more powerful Ram's Sprint and put this at PL6
  • Added a powerful 'Beasts' spell in 'Plague of Insects'
  • 'Bow of Galawain' now PL8, and 'With Furious Vengeance!' at PL9 as discussed.
  • I put 'Panther's Leap' at PL7 - do we think this is too strong to be PL7? (If yes - what could replace it?)

Plague of insect already in Berath's list (could be an exception but preferrably not).
My suggestions :
5 : Base Leap. I think it's fitting this way.
6 : Borrowed Instinct. Emphasize Galawain's tricky side and Acc self-buffing gameplay
7 : Savage Courage (BPM version). Yes healing is already a priest thingy but this one provides instacast and insta concentration. So I think it's good.
 

Quote
  • Thoughts on swapping 'Charm Beasts' for 'Nature's Mark'?

As you wish. Both are nice and fitting.

Quote

Hylea:

  • Moved Avenging Storm to PL8
  • Added Wilting Wind at PL7. I personally don't think this is too strong for PL7, but I'd be interested in people's thoughts.

WIlting Wind is a bit powerful and not really fitting. Hylea is a "good" goddess.
I'll go with Weather the Storm (and gives Eothas some reckless Sacred Immolation that would fit him better).

Quote
  • I've considered swapping 'Deleterious Alacrity' for 'Her Revenge Swept Across the Land'? (since I'd like to give Hylea another electricity type spell) - again I'd be interested in people's thoughts.

Both are OK for me. Tier IV is really crowded for priest anyway.

Quote

Ondra:

  • Loses Avenging Storm (The storm spells should be split between her and Hylea - so Hylea gets this one)
  • Bumped everything down a tier as discussed
  • Moonwell -> Cleansing Waters (from Nocturnal's Mod)
  • The PL7 ability is taken by 'Her Tears Fell Like Rain'. This invocation is normally at this power level, but if it's still too strong I'll swap it for 'Seven Nights She Wept'. The fluff of sadness and tears here is perfect for Ondra.

Yep, I see what you mean, but we've been generous enough by giving her eld Nary. I think the unupgraded version would be safer.

Quote
  • 'Eld Nary's Curse' at PL9. Again perfect for Ondra (due to the ice damage and especially the fluff around a Sailor's Curse)

Yup


Tell me when you have any update about the incarnate. IIt is also necessary to check if Hylea's Familiar is in line with the Summon package of the BPM.

EDIT : Abydon's Hammer isn't technically an additional spell if it summons Abydon's version of Spiritual Weapon, ney ? You can just give him Mind Blade as a free pick, and Hammer as normal Spiritual weapon.

Edited by Elric Galad
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Thinking twice, Marked for the Hunt is also a semi-passive key ability of the Ranger Class. I'm not sure it's wise to give it to another class even a Galawain's one.
I would go for Concussive Tranquilizer instead that provides interesting utility.

Then I'l choose Nature's Mark on Tier 1.

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Nice one on the changes above. Adopted basically all of them. Agree on 'Marked for the Hunt' and good spot with Abydon's missing L2 spell. Indeed Spiritual Weapon should not count. 

Current status is then:

  Abydon Galawain Hylea Ondra
Lv1 Flames of the White Forge Nature's Mark Talon's Reach Ondra's Whip
Lv2 Blades of the White Forge Taste of the Hunt Winter Wind The Moon's Light
Lv3 Twin Stones Stag's Horn Avian Familiars Returning Storm
Lv4 Ironskin Leap Revenge Swept Overwhelming Wave
Lv5 Calling the World's Maw Borrowed Instinct Cleansing Wind Relentless Storm
Lv6 Embrace the Earth Talon Concussive Tranquiliser Discordant Melody Cleansing Waters
Lv7 Power Strike Savage Courage Weather the Storm Seven Nights She Wept
Lv8 Sundering Blow Bow of Galawain Avenging Storm Symbol of Ondra
Lv9 Enchanted Armoury With Furious Vengeance! Tornado Eld Nary's Curse

Blades of the White Forge is just Mind Blades.

Are we happy with the level progression for Galawain? I had to move Leap down from PL5 to PL4 to make space for Concussive Tranquiliser

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What ability could fit a spell Tier has a tricky part when martial class are involved.
For Spellcasters, spell Tier and ressources are equivalent.
For Martial, an active ability can be on a given Tier but their cost is a distinct component :
Concussive Tranquilizer is Tier VI but it only cost 1 bond.

Abilities that cost 1 Bond should be equivalent to Tier 1-3 spells (that's what I call the "Trickster equivalence" based on the cost of trickster spells).
Of course, Concussive Tranquilizer is from a higher Tier and is technically an upgrade (which costs 2 ability points to get), so it worths "a bit more" than a Tier 1 - 3 slot.
That's why I tier Concussive Tranquilizer on Tier 4 is okay.

And then :
4
Concussive Tranquilizer
5 : Leap.
6 : Borrowed Instinct

I'm happy with the tables. Could you confirm Eothas is getting Sacred Immolation on Tier 7 for information ?


I still don't know what Hylea's familiar is. If it is an equivalent to Conjurer Familiar summon without the random factor I think it's OK. Just remember BPM has buffed this ability with 0.5s/0s cast/recovery time. I think it should apply.

Edited by Elric Galad
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 Yes! This makes sense :) 

Eothas is getting sacred immolation for sure! Its a great idea - very fitting.

The Hylean Familiars are those from Nocturnal's mod at the moment.

Quote

WIlting Wind is a bit powerful and not really fitting. Hylea is a "good" goddess.

On this point - I really want to give Hylea as much Wind keyworded stuff as possible. I know what you mean about the spell feeling perhaps 'too dark' (especially if we compare it to its DnD counterpart). But note the spell is bound to Amira's Wing in vanilla and seems to be Hylean in that sense.

I still need to think more on Hylea :)

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6 hours ago, bell88 said:

The Hylean Familiars are those from Nocturnal's mod at the moment.

Which doesn't tell me what it is. If you want to use additional summons in your mod, you need to have a clear idea of what they are.
I highly recommand reading my summon analysis thread :

 

Quote

On this point - I really want to give Hylea as much Wind keyworded stuff as possible. I know what you mean about the spell feeling perhaps 'too dark' (especially if we compare it to its DnD counterpart). But note the spell is bound to Amira's Wing in vanilla and seems to be Hylean in that sense.

I still need to think more on Hylea :)

 

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Which doesn't tell me what it is. If you want to use additional summons in your mod, you need to have a clear idea of what they are.
I highly recommand reading my summon analysis thread :

Haha! Sorry for the imprecision 😅

I'm new to modding POE2, so I may need a bit of a hand with balancing the summons. I'm going to do it right at the end. There is in principle only one 'new' summon to balance for this mod (Avian Familiars), because the others are vanilla summons (that are covered by your mod Elric) - The Hylea incarnate is the chanter sky dragon summon, and the Aybdon incarnate is the chanter 'Instruments' summon. 'Avian Familiars' seems to summon three birds that are quite fragile. They provide a perception and power level bonus. I'd be happy to change this however we see fit. I'd quite like Hylea to have something that grants the priest 'Swift'. So maybe the birds could provide that inspiration + PL boost?

I think the ability tables are in a good places, and I'm making good progress. I did have a few questions that it would be good to get your thoughts on:

1) Keywords

I had some questions here to make sure I was being consistent with my keyword tagging. 

[Note all of these questions below apply when using the Community Patch Keywords module]

  • Combusting Wounds: Should this be Punishment + Condemnation (strictly it doesn't deal damage by itself, only in response to another attack). Similarly - how would you tag 'Recall Agony' and 'Pain Link'?
  • Should 'Pain Block' just be Inspiration or Inspiration + Restoration?
  • The Prisoners Turned on Their Captors + Two Fingers of Daylight: Both of these grand immunities to afflictions. How are these categorised? Does it come under Protection since they're not strictly Inspirations but reduce the duration of hostile effects by an infinite amount? 'Prisoners' would then be both Protection, Inspiration (as it also provides Strong).
  • Why are Woedica's writ spells tagged as Punishment + Condemnation? Shouldn't they only be Condemnation if I'm understanding correctly?
  • Wael's confusion spell seems to have the 'Illusion' keyword - but none of the other Wael priest spells have that tag
  • Vile Thorns counters 'Antidote', but doesn't have the 'Poison' keyword. Is that a bug?
  • Maybe 'Wall of Thorns' should have the 'Poison' keyword and counter 'Antidote' since the description explicitly mentions that it's poisonous?

2) Onra & Hylea ability trees
We're mostly set with everyone's ability trees. I just want to iron out a few final questions on these two and then I think everything is fixed up. I have three options here, and I'd be interested in which you prefer/think is best @Elric Galad (also interested in anyone else's thoughts as well of course).

Option 1

Hylea Ondra
Talon's Reach Ondra's Whip
Winter Wind The Moon's Light
Avian Familiars Returning Storm
Revenge Swept Overwhelming Wave
Cleansing Wind Relentless Storm
Discordant Melody Rejuvenating Waters
Weather the Storm Seven Nights She Wept
Avenging Storm Symbol of Ondra
Tornado Eld Nary's Curse

Option 2

Talon's Reach Ondra's Whip
Avian Familiars The Moon's Light
Hylean Squall (Amira's Wing item ability) Returning Storm
Revenge Swept Overwhelming Wave
Cleansing Wind Relentless Storm
Discordant Melody Rejuvenating Waters
So Singt Eld Nary Seven Nights She Wept
Avenging Storm Symbol of Ondra
Tornado Ondra's Mortar (Great Maelstrom)

Option 3

Talon's Reach Ondra's Whip
Avian Familiars The Moon's Light
Hylean Squall (Amira's Wing item ability) Returning Storm
Revenge Swept Overwhelming Wave
Cleansing Wind Relentless Storm
Discordant Melody Rejuvenating Waters
Sirocco (Wilting Wind - without weakness) Seven Nights She Wept
Avenging Storm Symbol of Ondra
Eld Nary's Curse Ondra's Mortar (Great Maelstrom)

2) PL IX abilities.

As discussed earlier, I want to move away from a model where every God gets all the different God abilities as options at PL9. (This also would no longer make sense given the addition of four new Gods and their associated PL9 abilities would overcrowd the level hugely). We have several options. At the moment I've made it so each God gets their unique PL9 ability + an incarnate summon (except Woedica) and thats it. I think that's two few abilities.

I'm proposing to change that so they in addition get one other God's ability as shown in the table below (generically this is a God that they are either thematically or personally allied with). Let me know your thoughts/any proposed changes to the table. (Or if you have any other ideas).

Berath Hand of Berath Call of Rymrgand Incarnate
Eothas Light of Eothas Blessing of Wael Incarnate
Gaun Pollen Patch Light of Eothas Incarnate
Magran Magran's Judgement Enchanted Armoury Incarnate
Rymrgand Call of Rymrgand Hand of Berath Incarnate
Skaen Revenge of Skaen With Furious Vengeance Incarnate
Wael Blessing of Wael Magran's Judgement? Incarnate
Woedica Writ of Mending With Furious Vengeance Revenge of Skaen
Abydon Enchanted Armoury Magran's Judgement Incarnate
Galawain With Furious Vengeance Pollen Patch Incarnate
Hylea Tornado/Eld Nary's Curse Light of Eothas Incarnate
Ondra Eld Nary's Curse/Maelstrom Tornado/Eld Nary's Curse Incarnate
Edited by bell88
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18 minutes ago, bell88 said:

  

I'm new to modding POE2, so I may need a bit of a hand with balancing the summons. I'm going to do it right at the end. There is in principle only one 'new' summon to balance for this mod (Avian Familiars), because the others are vanilla summons (that are covered by your mod Elric) - The Hylea incarnate is the chanter sky dragon summon,

There is no Sky Dragon summon.
There is an Adult Dragon Summon (but this one is a NO. it should be chanter only)
There is a Drake Summon (this one could be a legit Incarnate, even 2 of them would fit : remember that Incarnate Duration should IMHO depend on their number and that Incarantes join Team, not Party, so aren't controllable.).

18 minutes ago, bell88 said:

 

'Avian Familiars' seems to summon three birds that are quite fragile.

3 Summons is strong, even if they are individullay weak. 1 would be good enough.

Don't create a new summon spell : build your design on Conjurer's familiar, without random component. Possibly tweak up just a little bit its stats.

18 minutes ago, bell88 said:

They provide a perception and power level bonus. I'd be happy to change this however we see fit. I'd quite like Hylea to have something that grants the priest 'Swift'. So maybe the birds could provide that inspiration + PL boost?

No, too strong. Cannon fodder + Swift as a Tier ~3 is too good.
Swift on its own without +15% Action speed and self damages from DAoM could fit. Could be 60s duration.

18 minutes ago, bell88 said:

I think the ability tables are in a good places, and I'm making good progress. I did have a few questions that it would be good to get your thoughts on:

1) Keywords

I had some questions here to make sure I was being consistent with my keyword tagging. 

[Note all of these questions below apply when using the Community Patch Keywords module]

  • Combusting Wounds: Should this be Punishment + Condemnation (strictly it doesn't deal damage by itself, only in response to another attack). Similarly - how would you tag 'Recall Agony' and 'Pain Link'?
  • Should 'Pain Block' just be Inspiration or Inspiration + Restoration?
  • The Prisoners Turned on Their Captors + Two Fingers of Daylight: Both of these grand immunities to afflictions. How are these categorised? Does it come under Protection since they're not strictly Inspirations but reduce the duration of hostile effects by an infinite amount? 'Prisoners' would then be both Protection, Inspiration (as it also provides Strong).
  • Why are Woedica's writ spells tagged as Punishment + Condemnation? Shouldn't they only be Condemnation if I'm understanding correctly?
  • Wael's confusion spell seems to have the 'Illusion' keyword - but none of the other Wael priest spells have that tag
  • Vile Thorns counters 'Antidote', but doesn't have the 'Poison' keyword. Is that a bug?
  • Maybe 'Wall of Thorns' should have the 'Poison' keyword and counter 'Antidote' since the description explicitly mentions that it's poisonous?

You got the principles right. Do as you feel, it's not THAT critical. I'm working on Poison keyword missing at the moment for BPM 1.3.2.

18 minutes ago, bell88 said:

2) Onra & Hylea ability trees
We're mostly set with everyone's ability trees. I just want to iron out a few final questions on these two and then I think everything is fixed up. I have three options here, and I'd be interested in which you prefer/think is best @Elric Galad (also interested in anyone else's thoughts as well of course).

Option 1

Hylea Ondra
Talon's Reach Ondra's Whip
Winter Wind The Moon's Light
Avian Familiars Returning Storm
Revenge Swept Overwhelming Wave
Cleansing Wind Relentless Storm
Discordant Melody Rejuvenating Waters
Weather the Storm Seven Nights She Wept
Avenging Storm Symbol of Ondra
Tornado Eld Nary's Curse

Option 2

Talon's Reach Ondra's Whip
Avian Familiars The Moon's Light
Hylean Squall (Amira's Wing item ability) Returning Storm
Revenge Swept Overwhelming Wave
Cleansing Wind Relentless Storm
Discordant Melody Rejuvenating Waters
So Singt Eld Nary Seven Nights She Wept
Avenging Storm Symbol of Ondra
Tornado Ondra's Mortar (Great Maelstrom)

Option 3

Talon's Reach Ondra's Whip
Avian Familiars The Moon's Light
Hylean Squall (Amira's Wing item ability) Returning Storm
Revenge Swept Overwhelming Wave
Cleansing Wind Relentless Storm
Discordant Melody Rejuvenating Waters
Sirocco (Wilting Wind - without weakness) Seven Nights She Wept
Avenging Storm Symbol of Ondra
Eld Nary's Curse Ondra's Mortar (Great Maelstrom)

 

All 3 work. I was thinking about Wilting Wind without weakness for Tier 7 too, so it's OK.

18 minutes ago, bell88 said:

2) PL IX abilities.

As discussed earlier, I want to move away from a model where every God gets all the different God abilities as options at PL9. (This also would no longer make sense given the addition of four new Gods and their associated PL9 abilities would overcrowd the level hugely). We have several options. At the moment I've made it so each God gets their unique PL9 ability + an incarnate summon (except Woedica) and thats it. I think that's two few abilities.

I'm proposing to change that so they in addition get one other God's ability as shown in the table below (generically this is a God that they are either thematically or personally allied with). Let me know your thoughts/any proposed changes to the table. (Or if you have any other ideas).

Berath Hand of Berath Call of Rymrgand Incarnate
Eothas Light of Eothas Blessing of Wael Incarnate
Gaun Pollen Patch Light of Eothas Incarnate
Magran Magran's Judgement Enchanted Armoury Incarnate
Rymrgand Call of Rymrgand Hand of Berath Incarnate
Skaen Revenge of Skaen With Furious Vengeance Incarnate
Wael Blessing of Wael Magran's Judgement? Incarnate
Woedica Writ of Mending With Furious Vengeance Revenge of Skaen
Abydon Enchanted Armoury Magran's Judgement Incarnate
Galawain With Furious Vengeance Pollen Patch Incarnate
Hylea Tornado/Eld Nary's Curse Light of Eothas Incarnate
Ondra Eld Nary's Curse/Maelstrom Tornado/Eld Nary's Curse Incarnate

Good idea. The table is clear but a "Magic the Gathering Color Pie" drawing would be wonderful to understand who gets what within Eora'scosmology.
Yeah, more complicated with 11 gods than with 5 colors 🙂

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