Intel Thread

[majestic]

Huh.

10-20% performance gains in gaming using CU-DIMM DDR5 and not changing anything else. Also probably some e-core task scheduling issues at work here and there, with another couple % added by a e-core and cache overclock (which makes a lot of sense when the e-cores are working on game threads, as the e-cores have comparatively little L2 cache per core, sharing 4MB per cluster of 4). Except for Horizon Zero Dawn, that game has always been really rough on both Intel and nVidia hardware.

That might also point towards why some German YouTube channels that I have watched, including der8auer's, showed so drastically different gaming performance (especially in Cyberpunk) from GN or HUB and Jay's. der8auer used CU-DIMMs for his testing.

Still doesn't make Arrow Lake interesting, but it does show that Intel is having some teething issues with the new platform and their new tile designs. That is a rough launch, and for optimal performance you need different memory kits that are currently at a premium, and it makes little sense. Using CU-DIMMs shouldn't even make that much of a difference. Sure, they theoretically allow for higher memory bandwidth, but really, such a drastic performance increase with everything else equal? Something's wrong here.

And since Jay also mentions it, the 9000X3D CPUs are going to top the charts soon anyway. Given his remarks I suspect the rumors are true and AMD actually really doubled the amount of cache for the 9900X3D and 9950X3D by slapping it on both CCDs. Otherwise, given the otherwise small performance gain of Zen 4 over Zen 5, his insinuations make no sense, unless the regular Zen 5 CPUs have a severe bottleneck and the 9800X3D also shows massive performance gains by simply having more cache to work with.

Well, the specs say there's less of clock speed regression on the 9800X3D compared to the 9700X than there was between the 7800X3D and the 7700X, but that should not be enough to make all these charts look small.

[LadyCrimson]

Let's see, it's been ... over 5 years since I built my current rig, maybe? Based on stuff like this, I'll be hanging on to it for another 2-3+ years.

[majestic]

1 hour ago, LadyCrimson said:

Let's see, it's been ... over 5 years since I built my current rig, maybe? Based on stuff like this, I'll be hanging on to it for another 2-3+ years.

Especially since you're playing on 4K, where the CPU is rarely ever the bottle neck. Even with the fastest gaming CPUs (i.e. the X3D CPUs from AMD) you'd benefit more from a GPU upgrade. It's a time honed tradition in PC building. Without an unlimited budget, save on the CPU so you can buy the next best tier of GPUs.

Even with a 4090, you'll see zero difference in frame rates in 4K in most 3D games between the last three generations of CPUs (unless you have something like a really cheap four core CPU that can't keep up). That is why these videos do not test 4K resolutions anyway, and most also dropped 1440p testing, which was a thing in the past. Slap someting on the level of a 7700 (non-X) into your rig and you're probably good for years to come.

It is different for productivity workloads, and you might run into other bottlenecks (PCIE 5.0 support, more PCIE lanes, etc., memory compatibility and availability, etc.) that might make you want to upgrade, but, yeah, well...

Edited Thursday at 10:03 AM by majestic

[LadyCrimson]

Another big factor for me is eventually having to decide if I'm going to deal with Win11 or finally try to deal with Linux re: gaming.  Everything I hear re: what Win11 is up to/going to be up to (like that Recall stuff), makes me go "NO" 10000% more than Win7 to Win10 ever did. Maybe it's all overblown but ... sigh. Just an ol' granny who can't program a VCR, these days.

I think the 9900k could be bios-updated to work with Win11, that thing, but not going to bother. If I go with Win11 it'd be on a new cpu/PC.

Edited Saturday at 11:10 AM by LadyCrimson

[Bartimaeus]

3 hours ago, LadyCrimson said:

Another big factor for me is eventually having to decide if I'm going to deal with Win11 or finally try to deal with Linux re: gaming.  Everything I hear re: what Win11 is up to/going to be up to (like that Recall stuff), makes me go "NO" 10000% more than Win7 to Win10 ever did. Maybe it's all overblown but ... sigh. Just an ol' granny who can't program a VCR, these days.

I think the 9900k could be bios-updated to work with Win11, that thing, but not going to bother. If I go with Win11 it'd be on a new cpu/PC.

It's overblown in the sense that It's just more stuff to disable. A disable is just a click away if you use Shut Up Windows...

...which I can't recommend enough alongside Winaero Tweaker for fixing and/or reverting a bunch of Windows 10/11 annoyances/intrusions.

[majestic]

The absolutely most important thing to change in Windows 11 is the stupid new context menu on right clicks. Nothing else comes even close to being this essential. Whoever had that idea over at Microsoft should be shot to the moon without a return ticket, along with the other criminals deserving of such a fate, like Putin, Xi and Trump.

[LadyCrimson]

^ Yeah I disable and got rid of tons of stuff in Win10Pro manually with the group policies and PowerShell. I've only updated Win10 "important files" twice I think, when a game demanded it. I'm sure I'd do the same with Win11. Edit: I always purchase the O/S, vs. free upgrading of previous. If I could buy an "enterprise" version for home I would (well, in the past, dunno about 11).

But hubby says Win11 is also pushing for the MS account login to run it. That you can disable it but hard to find without knowing how. I'm sure they'll start pushing for subscriptions on top before long.   It's just all going to the dogs.

Edited Saturday at 06:39 PM by LadyCrimson

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, LadyCrimson said:

If I could buy an "enterprise" version for home I would (well, in the past, dunno about 11).

You can't feasibly buy either the Enterprise or LTSC editions of Windows 10/11 (subscription-based volume licensing), but both of them sure are easy to obtain the official installers for and use without issue. Don't ask me how I know...or maybe do, depending on how interested you are, .

2 hours ago, LadyCrimson said:

But hubby says Win11 is also pushing for the MS account login to run it. That you can disable it but hard to find without knowing how. I'm sure they'll start pushing for subscriptions on top before long.   It's just all going to the dogs.

It's pretty much the same situation as it was for most editions/versions of the Windows 10 installer: unplug/disable your internet as you start the installation process and when you get to creating an account, it'll try to make you connect, it won't work because you don't have internet and then you can say "nope, as you can see, I am a poor soul that doesn't have internet", Windows will go "very well, you filthy peasant", and now you can proceed with creating a local account.

3 hours ago, majestic said:

The absolutely most important thing to change in Windows 11 is the stupid new context menu on right clicks. Nothing else comes even close to being this essential. Whoever had that idea over at Microsoft should be shot to the moon without a return ticket, along with the other criminals deserving of such a fate, like Putin, Xi and Trump.

The whole presentation of Windows 11 feels like a MacOS facade that you have to immediately hammer and drill back into its proper shape before you can use it. Stupid.

Edited Saturday at 09:13 PM by Bartimaeus

[LadyCrimson]

We can all feel super smart for being able to get around/being nerdy enough to know how to alter things as we want (unlike the average consumer, which is what a lot of companies bank on, imo) but we're sorta still part of the statistical problem as users. Not that everyone has a choice in the matter, I know.

I'm just in a very negative headspace re: current US state of AI/computer/digital dependence and monopolistic/privacy/profit sharing-investor desperation cycles. At least Google's being taking to task on something, recently. Something's gotta give (for a while - a new cycle) at some point.

[Sarex]

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

It's pretty much the same situation as it was for most editions/versions of the Windows 10 installer: unplug/disable your internet as you start the installation process and when you get to creating an account, it'll try to make you connect, it won't work because you don't have internet and then you can say "nope, as you can see, I am a poor soul that doesn't have internet", Windows will go "very well, you filthy peasant", and now you can proceed with creating a local account.

This does not work on win11 or at least it didn't work for me the couple of times I tried it. I had to use a workaround with some command in cmd, to get to the local account creation.

[Bartimaeus]

6 minutes ago, Sarex said:

This does not work on win11 or at least it didn't work for me the couple of times I tried it. I had to use a workaround with some command in cmd, to get to the local account creation.

What edition, specifically? IIRC, later updates of Windows 10 Home behaved similar as well, but I thought the Pro and Enterprise variants were unaffected.

[Sarex]

8 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

What edition, specifically? IIRC, later updates of Windows 10 Home behaved similar as well, but I thought the Pro and Enterprise variants were unaffected.

Pro.

[Bartimaeus]

21 hours ago, LadyCrimson said:

I'm just in a very negative headspace re: current US state of AI/computer/digital dependence and monopolistic/privacy/profit sharing-investor desperation cycles. At least Google's being taking to task on something, recently. Something's gotta give (for a while - a new cycle) at some point.

"Fun" video with the Gamers Nexus guy if you hadn't seen it:

Windows (and most other always online products, services, and features) is adversarial, by design, and it is always getting worse.

11 hours ago, Sarex said:

Pro.

On the latest patched version of the official Windows 11 multi-installer from Microsoft.com (including Home and Pro editions, along with some others, IDK, I wasn't paying that much attention to the list of options you get, I just chose Pro), found and freely downloadable here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows11

It is admittedly not straightforward to discern what you need to click on in order to not have to do the SHIFT+F10 OOBE stuff, but it is still possible: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/scl/fi/psttyrild3n998fzlhnx0/vmware_wFvbyAGVMu.mp4?rlkey=zi9bw7xlkiohwzzzjl4o8ookg&dl=0

Edited Sunday at 08:07 PM by Bartimaeus