Balance Polishing Mod Release 1.0

[NotDumbEnough]

 

Shattered Pillar wound threshold change does not appear to work properly. I have Lesser Wounds, so 76/16 > 4, but I only get 3 wounds as shown in combat log.

 

Edit: Never mind, I'm guessing it doesn't count overkill damage like cipher focus gain.

Edited April 1, 2022 by NotDumbEnough

[NotDumbEnough]

 

Checked again, this time with no overkill damage. The change definitely did not make it through.

Incidentally, this is reflected in the ability description where it is still +200% threshold.

 

Edit: I think this is caused by the value being modded twice. In the wound limit file cl.monk.shattered_pillar_wounds_limit there is also a bit that seems to mod Shattered Pillar wound gain rate back to default. I changed that to the intended value and all is working correctly without needing to start a new game.

Edited April 2, 2022 by NotDumbEnough

[Elric Galad]

10 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

 

Checked again, this time with no overkill damage. The change definitely did not make it through.

Incidentally, this is reflected in the ability description where it is still +200% threshold.

 

Edit: I think this is caused by the value being modded twice. In the wound limit file cl.monk.shattered_pillar_wounds_limit there is also a bit that seems to mod Shattered Pillar wound gain rate back to default. I changed that to the intended value and all is working correctly without needing to start a new game.

Yes, BPM shall be loaded after CP. If not, it can lead to funky effects. If you prefer CP change, the best thing to do is to delete related BPM content.

EDIT : Anyway, there is a confirmed display buf, since I haven't change th "+200% wound threshold" display.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Elric Galad

[Bosmer]

On 3/27/2022 at 11:56 PM, Elric Galad said:

Thanks. I don't think it will be more broken that in the unmodded game. You will just have more possibilities. But it won't work on pulsating spells or similar ones.

Yeah, I had the chance to test the new Backstab and Assassinate a bit and so far it works like a charm. You suddenly have significantly more options, such as chaining two spells at the beginning of combat from stealth. Full-Attacks work great, especially since the off-hand will have only a reduced backstab bonus in many occasions.

Arquebus as an assassins weapon is still highly competitive since the fast attack allows to follow up with a fast spell. I've tried a couple of AoE or multi-hit spells but nothing seems to be broken so far, the spells just feel nicely buffed.

[NotDumbEnough]

No, I mean that BPM has two files modding the same thing (wound gain threshold), leading to the issue above.

[Elric Galad]

35 minutes ago, NotDumbEnough said:

No, I mean that BPM has two files modding the same thing (wound gain threshold), leading to the issue above.

Or I renamed it at some point and when copy pasting new version, it didn't erase the outdated file ?

[Hoo]

Could you consider to adjust Takedown Combo ability as you've done to Assassin(applies fixed 1 sec)?

In addition to this, I'd like to suggest another;

I think Taste of the Hunt should be ApplyOnTick instead of ApplyOverTime. Honestly, the AplpyOverTime is a bit broken and meh...

 

[Elric Galad]

4 hours ago, Hoo said:

Could you consider to adjust Takedown Combo ability as you've done to Assassin(applies fixed 1 sec)?

No, because your whole party could benefit from it.

4 hours ago, Hoo said:

In addition to this, I'd like to suggest another;

I think Taste of the Hunt should be ApplyOnTick instead of ApplyOverTime. Honestly, the AplpyOverTime is a bit broken and meh...

 

You mean changing the display to something more clear, right ? Yes, it seems reasonable.

10 raw damages per tick every 3s instead of 32 damages over 10s then.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Elric Galad

[NotDumbEnough]

Fun times with Assassin/Shattered Pillar

[Elric Galad]

3 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Fun times with Assassin/Shattered Pillar

Oh my

Sounds fun. A bit lucky, probably, but now sounds like an actual assassination.

[Elric Galad]

Balances of the day :

Miasma of Dull Mindness : makes Arkemyr Wondrous Torment so obsolete that I'm planning to lower it from -10 to INT/PER/RES to -8 to INT/PER/RES. Still plenty good enough IMHO.

Circle of Protection : suffers immensely from being on the same tier as Devotion for the Faithful. Which basically doubles the effect by buffing you and debuffing foes. Circle of Protection may have a biffer AoE but also 10s duration instead of 30s for Devotion for the Faithful. So putting it to 20s* instead of 10s would make sense. Its main benefit is the possible stacking with Deflection buff.
*Circle of Protection is an area based effect. Duration isn't extended by PL (only by INT)

Screaming Soul : latest version ovrnerfed a bit (this spell honnestly requires long game testing) by setting initial AoE to 2.5m and secondary AoE to 1.5m. Now I'm planning to set initial AoE to 2.5m and secondary AoE to 2.5m too. Seems fine now (good Type-Specific damages + combos with your own summon)

 

Noticeable bug that you should know about : Wildstrike applies during Spiritshift cooldown. It is addressed for next version. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Elric Galad

[NotDumbEnough]

I think a Miasma nerf does not address the issue that Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment is not worth using in 99% of the fights you come across. It is slow to cast, it is single target, and it does not deal great damage or provide hard CC. Therefore it is only good for bosses. I think Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment would be a much better spell if it casted significantly faster, so that while it is not as powerful as Ryngrim's Ennervating Terror or Call to Slumber, you can still use it to quickly neutralize enemy casters before they have a chance to act. So maybe a 0.5/4.0 cast and recovery time. Would make it useful in small fights without breaking it in boss fights.

 

By the way, what would you think of removing Form of the Helpless Beast's target restriction? i.e. let the player use it against any sort of target and not just kith. Otherwise it feels useless in too many scenarios and is mostly just a spell the AI uses against you.

[Elric Galad]

4 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

I think a Miasma nerf does not address the issue that Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment is not worth using in 99% of the fights you come across. It is slow to cast, it is single target, and it does not deal great damage or provide hard CC. Therefore it is only good for bosses. I think Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment would be a much better spell if it casted significantly faster, so that while it is not as powerful as Ryngrim's Ennervating Terror or Call to Slumber, you can still use it to quickly neutralize enemy casters before they have a chance to act. So maybe a 0.5/4.0 cast and recovery time. Would make it useful in small fights without breaking it in boss fights.

Yes, I agree with this change. I think it is a good idea to reduce casting time, especially because it is a nice opener for Reflex or Will based attacks (as borrowed instinct).

But Miasma does derserve a little nerf, especially to make the difference even more clear (and even in this case, it is arguably the better spell).

4 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

By the way, what would you think of removing Form of the Helpless Beast's target restriction? i.e. let the player use it against any sort of target and not just kith. Otherwise it feels useless in too many scenarios and is mostly just a spell the AI uses against you.

The problem is this category of hard CC that bypasses every possible Resistance and Immunity (Statis Field and Temporal Cocoon) is very high level without restriction. Form is even a bit better since it still allows you to attack. As it is, it is a bit of a Grimoire spell (the ones you don't learn, but switch if necessary) but there are a couple of type-specific spells anyway.

[Elric Galad]

Minor udpate : 
- Flagellent Path upgrades will have their damages buffed from 5-7 to 5-10... as Flagellent Path itself. It was probably an oversight.
- Shared Pain currently adds 12 raw damages +1 per wound. Which is... pretty unsignificant for a Tier 8 upgrade. I plan to rise it to 12 raw damages +3 per wound. (Launching kick is fine but the minor correction above)

 

Other topic :

I always felt like Druids have an issue with their Tier 6 to 8 spell selection. Few possible picks, many situational. 

Tier 6 is a bit plagued by Poison/Disease/Fire Immunities (Venombloom would be great otherwise). A few foes are Immune to all 3 !

The spell selection feels thin, especially with Subclasses getting restrictions. Fury in particular feels like missing something as a nuker on the road to Greater Maelstorm.

I am usually reluctant to the idea of creating new abilities, but I feel like adding 1 (Element) AoE attack spell per Tier would help matching their identity. Historically Druids Tier 1-5 and maybe 6 (befoe the introduction of immunities) were so great in PoE1 that the devs suddenly stopped creating new AoE damage spells for druids. Now it feels like their Tier 6-8 identity is not matching their Tier 1-5+9 identity.

That would require reusing some animation, but still.

What do you think ?

 

Note the issue is a bit less significant for priests because subclasses add spells rather than bar them. Wizards get more spells and even unique Grimoires.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Elric Galad

[Testlum]

Honestly, I'm pretty sure Shared Pain is an oversight, considering its object name is "Shared_Pain_SE_Bleed" and it has a duration of 9s. The intended implementation probably would've had a ApplyOnTick per 3s like most DoT effects.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Testlum

[Elric Galad]

23 minutes ago, Testlum said:

Honestly, I'm pretty sure Shared Pain is an oversight, considering its object name is "Shared_Pain_SE_Bleed" and it has a duration of 9s. The intended implementation probably would've had a ApplyOnTick per 3s like most DoT effects.

OK, let's do this

[NotDumbEnough]

Maybe swap in some druid spells from lower PL as they are too weak to be interesting, such as Winter Wind, etc. By moving them to higher PL and buffing the stats accordingly they may see some use.

Edited April 5, 2022 by NotDumbEnough

[Elric Galad]

9 minutes ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Maybe swap in some druid spells from lower PL as they are too weak to be interesting, such as Winter Wind, etc. By moving them to higher PL and buffing the stats accordingly they may see some use.

That would be a good solution, but that would mess with foes progression table. (in PoE1 I argued some day Relentless Storm could have been moved to Tier 7...)

I'm thinking about adding new Party-only spells, not because it is the best, but because this is by far the easiest thing to do.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Elric Galad

[thelee]

Late to the discussion, for Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment, what about making it so that it doesn't take forever and a half for you to get the bounce effects? It *should* split, but in practice I feel like I've rarely ever seen it because I'm either taking on a hard single boss, or the fight is over before even the base duration is up. being able to target far away foes or in party-unfriendly contexts might make it more useful. maybe in conjunction with either lesser miasma effect or duration that might be enough.

[Elric Galad]

4 hours ago, thelee said:

Late to the discussion, for Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment, what about making it so that it doesn't take forever and a half for you to get the bounce effects? It *should* split, but in practice I feel like I've rarely ever seen it because I'm either taking on a hard single boss, or the fight is over before even the base duration is up. being able to target far away foes or in party-unfriendly contexts might make it more useful. maybe in conjunction with either lesser miasma effect or duration that might be enough.

I get the point, but if we start revamping the spell, everything becomes possible. It could even be an actual bounce spell.

This won't help my modditisis (temptation to mod everything)

Does it even end on Death ?

EDIT : but you're probably right. This would make sense by just transfering immediately the secondary effects. I'll keep the small miasma nerf and reduction of castion time (to make it a really a good opener)

Edited April 5, 2022 by Elric Galad

[Elric Galad]

Ok, so about Druids, I think creating new abilities might not be the simplest way to go.

 

1) I think Weather the Storm is a rather meh ability for Tier 7. Not that much because it is situational but because it compare not favorably with Woodskin and Form of the Delemgan, which comes with about as much Armor bonuses (and Pierce Armor is much more useful), and Form of th Delemgan also add additional bonuses.

Even if it can have its use, Weather the Storm feels sad in comparison.

That's why I'm planning to add a new bonus : a self only +3 PL to Wind and Storm spell for the duration. This bonus is non stacking with other Active bonuses (such as the one from Acute or Potion of Ascension).

Even if this bonus is great to charge up, it must be emphasized that it is not ideal for action economy since Weather the Storm has a long casting time. Also Druid would finally become better than scroll users at using their own spells  

The idea is to protect your crew so they can stand in the Storm you're preparing.

I also think it is nice to use Storm and Wind KW which only benefit from items otherwise.

 

2) Conjure Blight line of spells is a bit of an issue. Random summons are annoying IMHO. Summoning a Flame Blight in front of a Fire Naga pack is always unfortunate.

That's why a radical decision (in a separate deletable file) would be to change all three Conjure Blights to a set type of Blight :
- Conjure Minor Storm Blight (KW Storm and Electricity, no other Electricity spell on Tier 2)
- Conjure Flame Blight (KW Fire, no other Fire spell on Tier 4)
- Conjure Greater Ice Blight (KW Frost, no other Frost spell on Tier 6, can be cast vs Fire foes immune to Sunlance) 

I avoided Earth Blight because a predictable Slashing Immunity could be a bit OP.

Blights have their own abilities, but are often obscure to use especially when you don't know what to expect, so I think it will do good to Druid summoning capabilities.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Elric Galad

[thelee]

if we're talking about buffs for weather the storm and blights, any consideration to something that actually works with the Fury's bonuses? Having them keyworded as Elements is kind of a real waste (for the increased range part i could squint and see the need to buff a far away party member or put a summon right next to someone, but i'm squinting pretty hard). i don't know what would exactly be on-brand, though. something similar could be said with the summons being keyworded as elements, but i have even less idea what to do there

[Elric Galad]

4 hours ago, thelee said:

if we're talking about buffs for weather the storm and blights, any consideration to something that actually works with the Fury's bonuses? Having them keyworded as Elements is kind of a real waste (for the increased range part i could squint and see the need to buff a far away party member or put a summon right next to someone, but i'm squinting pretty hard). i don't know what would exactly be on-brand, though. something similar could be said with the summons being keyworded as elements, but i have even less idea what to do there

About the Blights : well, Fury does get extra range. Not a big bonus, but still nice little perk when you're trying to summon behind the ennemy line.

Other than that, about the only thing that can boost Summon is bonus PL. I won't give Fury bonus PL to all Elements spells, but there could be a new bonus to give PL to Blight spells specifically (using a new Keyword). 

But I think the extra range is enough for a subclass that is not intended as a summoner specialist.

Also Fury naturally tries to stack items that give bonus to elemental Keyword, so you'll usually have better synergies by picking Blights as summons (since as stated above, I would add corresponding KW).

 

About Weather the Storm : my idea was more to change it so it fits Fury playstyle more than giving Fury a specific bonus to it. Fury does get the spell for free, and gets most of Storm spells for free, so it synergizes quite well with the subclass. The issue I'm trying to address is that there is no Tier 7 spells that currently fits Fury playstyle.

There could be an argument to give Weather the Storm +3 PL to all Elements spells instead of Wind and Storm, so that it fits perfectly Fury playstyle. (+3 PL is meant to be above Potion of Ascension, but not too much above).

EDIT : a positive effect of setting it to all Elements spells is that the bonus AR to teams synergizes well with better elemental spells, so you can use elemental AoE where your party member stands with relatively low damages. Storms (especially Avenging, Relentless, Returning) on the other side tend to be more party friendly.

I could consider reducing duration a bit (20s) to balance things.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Elric Galad

[Exanos]

For druid, maybe adding item spells to their ability is doable? (Seven bolt from the mantle, bolt of lightning from the voulge...)

If not, some tweaked spells from other class can be nice : like a point blank range chain lightning with a paralyse effect...

[Elric Galad]

10 minutes ago, Exanos said:

For druid, maybe adding item spells to their ability is doable? (Seven bolt from the mantle, bolt of lightning from the voulge...)

If not, some tweaked spells from other class can be nice : like a point blank range chain lightning with a paralyse effect...

Yes, that or abilities from foes (such as an eruption based graphical copy of Dorudugan ultimate ability). I was indeed thinking about Bolt Lightning.

But for now the Weather the Storm and Blight Spells tweaking seems enough. Especially because it addresses the issues with these abilities too.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Elric Galad