Balance Polishing Mod Release 1.0

[Elric Galad]

19 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Regarding Distraction Training: it currently feels kind of bad. It is very hard to get your pet's Deflection to reasonable levels since they can't use equipment. It is the same issue as unmodded game's Riposte: on PotD misses are very rare unless you are fighting very easy enemies. Suggest lowering the duration but also make it trigger on grazes.

I get that. I think I will set it to Miss or Graze indeed.

Lowering duration isn't a good idea. Base 10s means actually 7.5s due to pet intellect (unless Bonded Fury). 

However, I will lower the +1 Bond chances to 15% (on Misses or Grazes).

19 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Also might want to check whether it has the same issues with friendly fire as Blessing of Wael which you just fixed.

I will try to change this but as you know it might be impossible.

Anyway if the -10 Deflection procs on self inflicted attacks, it means that the 15% Bond chances procs too. Which can be abused with things such as Tangleroot.

Now that I think about it, it's probably a good idea to limit the whole on Miss / Graze part to weapon attacks, even if it cost the synergy with bonded fury.

EDIT : if I limit it to weapon attack, I will set the Bond on Miss/Graze to 20% instead of 15% as stated above.

EDIT EDIT : No, thinking again, 15% is fine. I don't want to provide ranger with something as efficient as BPM Toughened Fury, and the other part of the ability (the DEF debuff) has been enhanced enough.  

Edited December 4, 2021 by Elric Galad

[Panda Baby]

@Elric Galad hi elric, i see a new version is available on nexus, but for the love of santa i cant find change log,

 

where i can see all changes compared to previous version?

@Boeroer same question for u regardin latest CP mode update...

 

thanks guys love ya mods

[Elric Galad]

51 minutes ago, Panda Baby said:

@Elric Galad hi elric, i see a new version is available on nexus, but for the love of santa i cant find change log,

 

where i can see all changes compared to previous version?

@Boeroer

thanks guys love ya mods

You have to ctrl + F the description of the mod with the version tag <Version 1.5.2> . All new features are tagged this way.

[Boeroer]

@Panda Baby

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/335

on the Description page scroll a little bit down to 3). Detailed list of changes (as of v2.0.5)

[Constentin Lévine]

What do you think about Form of the Helpless Beast ?

"Transforms a single kith enemy (aumaua, dwarf, elf, godlike, human, or orlan) into a pig. The pig has very poor defenses but can move quickly. " according to the description, however the ennemy transformed keep their defenses and his health. Even confused, I cant target one of my char, and when the spell is reflected by an hostile wizard, my caster is not transformed. I try that for watch what happen in Status Effects screen, but I cant, Im not affected.

Is the spell bugged for everyone? If not, maybe that can be arranged in BPM ?

(At the beggining, I would to transform Furrante and everyone else in pig to dumb them for easy CC )

[Not So Clever Hound]

13 minutes ago, Constentin Lévine said:

What do you think about Form of the Helpless Beast ?

Personally, I hate this spell with passion .

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of an impactful "Polymorph Other" in Deadfire. It is an elegant idea for mage fencing. But IMHO this spell is a missed opportunity in its state - partly due to what you described above. Also because enemy casters that seem scripted to chain cast Arcane Dampener and Form of the Helpless Beast while running to their certain death are the bane of my existence.  

[Elric Galad]

On 12/11/2021 at 9:56 PM, Constentin Lévine said:

What do you think about Form of the Helpless Beast ?

"Transforms a single kith enemy (aumaua, dwarf, elf, godlike, human, or orlan) into a pig. The pig has very poor defenses but can move quickly. " according to the description, however the ennemy transformed keep their defenses and his health. Even confused, I cant target one of my char, and when the spell is reflected by an hostile wizard, my caster is not transformed. I try that for watch what happen in Status Effects screen, but I cant, Im not affected.

Is the spell bugged for everyone? If not, maybe that can be arranged in BPM ?

(At the beggining, I would to transform Furrante and everyone else in pig to dumb them for easy CC )

I think this spell is fine as a Kith-only discount Temporal Cocoon. It works a bit weird sometimes, but nothing too critical (except when is annhilihate your weapons, but I guess this is hard coded)

[Elric Galad]

Anyway, version 1.5.3 released with only a couple of changes. Tweaks to Shadowed Hunters and Distracting Training as discussed above and a change to Summon Familiar that mitigates an issue found there :

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/114591-mechanics-the-summoners-tables/page/2/#comment-2298754

 

Link to the mod :

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/438?tab=description

[Elric Galad]

From the class tiers discussion, it seems that Barbarian being a bit below as a MC isn't much challenged.

(Ranger neither, but I believe that it is mostly due to pet being hard to handle ; also, hunter's claw fix them so much vs bosses)

That's why I would like to make a couple of changes for them.

 

Wilder Hunter : extend the bonus vs primordials. There aren't many abilities vs Primordials. I guess it could make Boreal Barbarian a thing.

 

Bloody Slaughter : add +100% carnage damages vs Near Death. This is meant to provide "free kills" synergizing with other Barb passive.

 

Wild Sprint : buffed to 10s. Would make the duration more similar to Evasive Roll and Swift Strike.

Ram Sprint : no further change, good at what it does.

Lion Sprint : make it work with non-weapon attack again, for better synergy. buffed to +20 acc. The idea is to make barb MC support better the other class. At the cost of spending Rage quickly, but I think it is fitting them.

 

Savage Defiance : Issue with it is redundancy with Frenzy inspiration (esp for Berzekers) and redundancy with any Robust you can get from elsewhere (cough cough Cipher, Druid and Spiritual ally - the Robust inspiration provider for men of culture). Even with BPM Buff. And too easy to cancel with a CON Affliction. And this cost 3 Rages...
So I plan to make it 20hp/3s for 20s with no Inspiration. An actual heal, as it was it PoE1. About as strong as 3 Lay on Hand for 3 Rages (or 2 Rages and a precious Tier 7 ability point) since LoH initial ticks matter for the comparison. Instant but self-only, so I believe it would be balanced.
Would enforce the identity of Barbs as bottomless pit of hp type of tanks (altough this tanking is a bit less good as "taking no damages" type of tanking - Barbs also has better CC and offensive abilities than fighters).
This would be a great tool for MC that plan to take damages, such as Immolation Paladins, Monks and Blood Mages.

Stalwart Defiance : as Savage Defiance, but for 2 Rages.

Savage Courage : as above, but more akin to Courage : Actual Immunity to Interrupt for the duration. I think this would play a great role to make Barb a support MC.

 

And something for Fighter too (to keep them distinct from Barb as a Tank and Attack class)

Hold the Line : also provides immunity to Push/Pull. This is so Fighterish that I wonder how it could not be in their ability tree.

[NotDumbEnough]

Personally, I think the problem with Barbarian sprint abilities is that it competes with the leap abilities. Leap costs twice as much but comes with a useful stun, is faster, can be used from stealth, and bypasses all body blocking, which the sprint abilities don't really fix.

 

As for why people consider Barbarians a weak multiclass -- I think it's mostly because they lack tools against particularly hard to hit or durable foes, other than running or jumping away.

[Bosmer]

Is it possible to allow carnage to generate Focus? This would make at least picking witches more attractive. Then again, it’s a decent multiclass already, although IMO weaker than multiclassing cipher with rogue/paladin/ranger..

[Boeroer]

3 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

As for why people consider Barbarians a weak multiclass -- I think it's mostly because they lack tools against particularly hard to hit or durable foes, other than running or jumping away.

A Barb with Brute Force can make some high-deflection targets pretty easy to hit imo. 

Besides that I value action speed a lot so Barb comes up frequently when I think about caster combos. 

 

 

[NotDumbEnough]

Brute Force seems to be only particularly useful against enemy wizard and rogue types (low fortitude and lots of abilities that boost deflection), as a lot of bosses tend to have overwhelmingly high fortitude due to high constitution, with maybe the sole exception of the Oracle of Wael. As for action speed, both wizards and druids have very convenient self boosts to action speed, so I don't find it particularly necessary.

[Elric Galad]

44 minutes ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Brute Force seems to be only particularly useful against enemy wizard and rogue types (low fortitude and lots of abilities that boost deflection), as a lot of bosses tend to have overwhelmingly high fortitude due to high constitution, with maybe the sole exception of the Oracle of Wael. As for action speed, both wizards and druids have very convenient self boosts to action speed, so I don't find it particularly necessary.

Blood thirst/Bloodlust are neat when you start to get some kills.

Barbarian are nice in general for action economy cause many of the ability are almost instant. I tried to emphasize this with Barbaric Blow upgrade that negates recovery (does not require a kill with BPM).

Consider that you can buff yourself with Spirit Frenzy (staggering anything close), use insta-blow with a Morningstar, activate Lion Sprint (with the above change), so your next attack vs fortitude will be at a relative +10+25+20. A monk MC could have Weakened the target too granted the Crit Chances of barbaric blow. All the above is instant. It has cost 4 rages, but you have several buffs still active. 

That's what I trying to achieve, a class that can burn ressources quickly for great result.

[Elric Galad]

6 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Personally, I think the problem with Barbarian sprint abilities is that it competes with the leap abilities. Leap costs twice as much but comes with a useful stun, is faster, can be used from stealth, and bypasses all body blocking, which the sprint abilities don't really fix.

Well but it costs 2 and has a cooldown. I don't think it's bad to have 2 mobility tools as long as each one has a purpose.

LIon Sprint change proposed above would help Vs high defenses.

BPM barbaric blow has 75% Hit to Crit, which helps Vs high armor.

6 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

As for why people consider Barbarians a weak multiclass -- I think it's mostly because they lack tools against particularly hard to hit or durable foes, other than running or jumping away.

Berzekers have Tenacious and Crit Chances. Action speed always help.

3 hours ago, Bosmer said:

Is it possible to allow carnage to generate Focus? This would make at least picking witches more attractive. Then again, it’s a decent multiclass already, although IMO weaker than multiclassing cipher with rogue/paladin/ranger..

Probably but it would fix only 1 multiclass and it may lead to unexpected combos. 

A bit too risky IMHO.

[NotDumbEnough]

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

Blood thirst/Bloodlust are neat when you start to get some kills.

Barbarian are nice in general for action economy cause many of the ability are almost instant. I tried to emphasize this with Barbaric Blow upgrade that negates recovery (does not require a kill with BPM).

Consider that you can buff yourself with Spirit Frenzy (staggering anything close), use insta-blow with a Morningstar, activate Lion Sprint (with the above change), so your next attack vs fortitude will be at a relative +10+25+20. A monk MC could have Weakened the target too granted the Crit Chances of barbaric blow. All the above is instant. It has cost 4 rages, but you have several buffs still active. 

That's what I trying to achieve, a class that can burn ressources quickly for great result.

Yes, but that is the problem.

On higher difficulties (I play with PotD upscaled, and lately I am using Deadly Deadfire's scaling component to scale enemies even further, but not beyond my own level), many enemies such as fighter types are really hard to take down quickly when they keep up with you in level. A class that relies on quickly killing the enemy does not work too well when the enemy simply does not die fast. Of course you can use Leap and go kill somebody that is easier to hit, but then you are often out of reach of most of your party's buffs, and will likely die quite quickly without support.

Edited December 24, 2021 by NotDumbEnough

[Elric Galad]

22 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Savage Defiance : [...]
So I plan to make it 20hp/3s for 20s with no Inspiration. [...]

Savage Courage : as above, but more akin to Courage : Actual Immunity to Interrupt for the duration. I think this would play a great role to make Barb a support MC.

Now that I'm thinking, I see no reason not to add the actual Courageous inspiration to savage courage.

12 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Yes, but that is the problem.

On higher difficulties (I play with PotD upscaled, and lately I am using Deadly Deadfire's scaling component to scale enemies even further, but not beyond my own level), many enemies such as fighter types are really hard to take down quickly when they keep up with you in level. A class that relies on quickly killing the enemy does not work too well when the enemy simply does not die fast. Of course you can use Leap and go kill somebody that is easier to hit, but then you are often out of reach of most of your party's buffs, and will likely die quite quickly without support.

That's true for a pure melee Barb. But as a MC, nothing prevent your from casting either Plague of Insects or Disintigrate to the backrow.

Anyway, I dont plan to make Barbs relying too much on On Kill effects. But I know @Boeroer like them so it is probably quite good. And they have combo potential anyway (feeding Divine Retribution / Grave Caller with skellies self-kills), even in highest difficulties.

 

In a nutshell, barbarian BPM traits :
- Decent self buffs (Frenzy and buffed Wild Sprint)
- Carnage and other passives add a significant bit of damages
- Good tanking (not on par with fighter) esp with Savage Defiance line buff and overall second best for engagement slots (Thick Skinned and Shout)
- Instant effects (esp with crushing blow buff, but original Spirit Tornado was good for it too)
- Best short term crit chances with weapons (with Barbaric blow chances), well bar Gambit of course. Strenghtened by Berzekers
- AoE CC with instant activation (Leap and Spirit Tornado)
- Minor spec at On Kills effects for people who like them
- Furyshaper adds a bit of party support if needed.

So I think this collection of traits is unique enough.

 

Also planned buff :

Murderous Intent : (100% Hit to Crit /+100% Crit damages) against foes under 50% health for Empowered ability, (20% Hit to Crit /+20% Crit damages) ->  (20% Hit to Crit /+50% Crit damages) against foes under 50% health until combat ends

[Boeroer]

57 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Anyway, I dont plan to make Barbs relying too much on On Kill effects. But I know @Boeroer like them so it is probably quite good.

"Killing your own skeletons" aside, I think on-kill (and also on-crit) effects that lead to more offensive output are kind of "win more" effects and probably not very effective. But I think they can add a lot of fun - and imo playing a game is all about fun, so I like them.

[Elric Galad]

37 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

"Killing your own skeletons" aside, I think on-kill (and also on-crit) effects that lead to more offensive output are kind of "win more" effects and probably not very effective. But I think they can add a lot of fun - and imo playing a game is all about fun, so I like them.

Anyway, I don't plan BPM barb to be more focus on On Kill effects. Except Blood Slaughter change because it targets Near Death anyway.
If anything, I made it less reliant by removing the On Kill conditional on Barbaric Blow line.

[Elric Galad]

What would you guys think about buffing Confident Aim to 50% Graze to Hit ?

As it is, it feels mehish, especially when already under Aware/Intuitive.

Or to 30% miss to graze so it would be more unique ?

Edited December 27, 2021 by Elric Galad

[Bosmer]

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

What would you guys think about buffing Confident Aim to 50% Graze to Hit ?

As it is, it feels mehish, especially when already under Aware/Intuitive.

Or to 30% miss to graze so it would be more unique ?

I haven‘t done the math, but “intuitively” I always found it a nice pick. It’s roughly half as powerful as the secondary effect of a tier 2 inspiration which is in line with other passives (with the exception of prestige). 

[Elric Galad]

3 hours ago, Bosmer said:

I haven‘t done the math, but “intuitively” I always found it a nice pick. It’s roughly half as powerful as the secondary effect of a tier 2 inspiration which is in line with other passives (with the exception of prestige). 

Oh the maths aren't terrible. They aren't great either. If no other graze to hit, it is equivalent to 7,5 accuracy, which sounds ok until ou realize it is only applicable to graze range. It does nothing for miss to graze or hit to Crit. So vaguely half or a third of those 7,5 acc.

Things get worse if Aware/Intuitive is active cause Graze to Hit stacks multiplicatively. So in that case it is equivalent to 3,75 acc divided by half or a third. Negligible in this case. 

So it's an ability which is isn't too great in favorable circonstances and bad in very common circonstances for the class it belongs...

That's why I'm suggesting 30% miss to graze. While the maths are the same Vs defense equivalent to your acc, it stacks better with PER inspirations and provides fighter with something unique (bar some items) : an ability to hit foes with super high defenses... Which fits fighters extremely well.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

Miss to graze is a powerful conversion. More impactful than graze to hit. In case of a miss, you do nothing. If it gets converted to a graze you turn nothing to something which is... not displayable in percentages.  If you convert a graze to a hit or a hit to a crit you "only" turn a certain effect into a better one - but you don't turn nothing into something.

Miss to graze allows to apply debuffs or other hostile effects to enemies that you otherwise wouldn't even be able to graze (e.g. starting Belranga).

The highest miss to graze conversion on a weapon is on the Sanguine Great Sword (30%), followed by Willbreaker (25%) - both are second-tier enchantments. Meanwhile every boring flail gets 30% graze-to-hit. 
Gautlets of Reliability have 15% miss-to-graze, of Greater Reliability: 25%. With food or potion you can get another 25%. 

So tl;dr: 30% for Confident Aim as a passive seems high. But I like the idea in general.

What I also liked was the added MIN base damage in PoE that Confident Aim gave. It was kind of special.
If it would be possible I would like a general (less complicated) raise of base damage rolls with a proficient weapon. I don't know. 5% or so? Example: sword does 13-19 base dmg - with Conficent Aim (and weapon proficiency) it would do 14-20. A 5% multiplicative dmg bonus instead of raining base damage directly would do the same...   

Alternatively a +5 ACC bonus would mean a lot more players would pick it I think.  
 

[NotDumbEnough]

I think something like "+10 accuracy to next attack if you miss/graze with your weapon" would be unique and more interesting if it's possible to implement.

[Elric Galad]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Miss to graze is a powerful conversion. More impactful than graze to hit. In case of a miss, you do nothing. If it gets converted to a graze you turn nothing to something which is... not displayable in percentages.  If you convert a graze to a hit or a hit to a crit you "only" turn a certain effect into a better one - but you don't turn nothing into something.
Miss to graze allows to apply debuffs or other hostile effects to enemies that you otherwise wouldn't even be able to graze (e.g. starting Belranga).

The highest miss to graze conversion on a weapon is on the Sanguine Great Sword (30%), followed by Willbreaker (25%) - both are second-tier enchantments. Meanwhile every boring flail gets 30% graze-to-hit. 
Gautlets of Reliability have 15% miss-to-graze, of Greater Reliability: 25%. With food or potion you can get another 25%. 

So tl;dr: 30% for Confident Aim as a passive seems high. But I like the idea in general.

What I also liked was the added MIN base damage in PoE that Confident Aim gave. It was kind of special.
If it would be possible I would like a general (less complicated) raise of base damage rolls with a proficient weapon. I don't know. 5% or so? Example: sword does 13-19 base dmg - with Conficent Aim (and weapon proficiency) it would do 14-20. A 5% multiplicative dmg bonus instead of raining base damage directly would do the same...   

Alternatively a +5 ACC bonus would mean a lot more players would pick it I think.  
 

In term of damages, when acc is equal or above defenses, miss to graze isn't better. That is still 50% of "normal" damages added in both case.

For debuff, you're right though. There are a couple of cases where the "event" happens on Hit (Clear Out Prone), but in general most stuff happens either from Graze or from Crits.

My plan was to implement something a bit defining for fighter. 25% Misses to Grazes (tuned down a bit) would fit. In general, not so impactful, but when sh*t hits the fans... So situational but good.

BPM One Handed Style is 20% Misses to Grazes, Grazes to Hits, Hits to Crits, but the opportunity cost is high (and I nerfed pistol modal...)

Changing base damages would be a nightmare TBH, and +5Acc a bit boring ; also CP Weapon Tier 7 Mastery is +5 Acc and +5 damages with Proficient weapons, so it would be a bit redundant.

 

BPM gave Citzal Enchanted Armory Weapons 100% misses to grazes. It was nice vs Belranga, but rarely useful elsewhere  Tier 9 cast is a high requirement.

49 minutes ago, NotDumbEnough said:

I think something like "+10 accuracy to next attack if you miss/graze with your weapon" would be unique and more interesting if it's possible to implement.

Please no, Lion's Sprint was annoying enough to correct  

 

Other stuff :

- I'm going to set Wounding Shots to fixed 4x10% raw lash over 9s. CP is fixed 3x10% raw lash over 6s. The original ability was 6s but benefitted from INT and PL, so I think 9s is fair. Accurate Wounding Shot would confort its "most damaging 1 ressource attack" status.

- Thinking about making Inspired Strike 10s AoE Acute instead of self. Swift should stay self. I previously added +100% over Power Strike but this was a bit artificial. I just want SC Fighters to have another trick on Tier 9  (BPM set Power Strike to 3 Disciplines and Stun/Stager to 10s)