Did the Sith Empire still exist after Exan Kun?

[Ivan the Terrible]

When you talk to Canderous, during his description of how Revan was such a badass, he says something to the effect that 'the Sith had retreated into their Empire' and wouldn't have been able to stop the Mandalorians. In other words, he implies that the Sith Empire still existed despite the pounding they received during the war with Exar Kun.

 

This contradicts everything else that was said in the game, so I'm wagering it was just a SNAFU by the writer, but it would make Revan's rise to power make a bit more sense. It always struck me as a bit retarded that an entire fleet of Republic soldiers and pilots would just abandon the Republic and join Revan's bid to conquer the galaxy; if Revan could have called on an already-existing Empire for the soldiers he needed when he fell, then it might make more sense.

[Quiquag]

That makes sense that there was a small existing part of the Sith empire after Exan Kun. The Sith always manage to stay around in some small way, as seen in the movies and other SW games. I don't think the Sith have ever been completely extinct, there is always a dark side.

[Darion]

yeah for he could get infinite starships from the starforge but not create an army of men from nothing

...or could he???

[GhostofAnakin]

When you talk to Canderous, during his description of how Revan was such a badass, he says something to the effect that 'the Sith had retreated into their Empire' and wouldn't have been able to stop the Mandalorians. In other words, he implies that the Sith Empire still existed despite the pounding they received during the war with Exar Kun.

 

This contradicts everything else that was said in the game, so I'm wagering it was just a SNAFU by the writer, but it would make Revan's rise to power make a bit more sense. It always struck me as a bit retarded that an entire fleet of Republic soldiers and pilots would just abandon the Republic and join Revan's bid to conquer the galaxy; if Revan could have called on an already-existing Empire for the soldiers he needed when he fell, then it might make more sense.

How did it contradict everything else said in the game? Even the Jedi Council on Dantooine made the comment that "many" of the ships Revan had at his disposal were Republic ships, but that seems to imply that he also had soldiers from another faction (Sith) at his disposal as well.

[Ivan the Terrible]

How did it contradict everything else said in the game? Even the Jedi Council on Dantooine made the comment that "many" of the ships Revan had at his disposal were Republic ships, but that seems to imply that he also had soldiers from another faction (Sith) at his disposal as well.

Jolee makes it clear that the Sith of this time period are not the same Sith faced during the Exar Kun war. There is no mention of Revan walking into an existing Sith Empire and seizing control, nor does the Jedi Historian on Dantooine say anything about Revan gaining soldiers from an existing Sith Empire when you ask him (he says they come from his fleet and from flocks of new recruits gathered as the Sith conquered worlds.)

 

In short, if there is an existing Sith Empire, they certainly don't do a lot to publicize it in-game. Beyond that, it makes no sense that the Republic (having wiped out Exar Kun on Yavin IV) wouldn't go that extra mile and prevent the Sith from ever emerging as a threat again by reconquering their Empire.

 

And I think the reference to "many" of the ships being of the Republic was used to point out that many others were of an alien design; namely, ships produced by the Star Forge.

[EnderAndrew]

The Sith were a people, several times waning and waxing in power. In KOTOR, we see Malak and Revan (who could be described as Sith) and many people who serve the Sith. Saul and the like aren't truly Sith, but they serve the Sith Empire.

[Drakron]

However the Sith Empire existed and was destroyed in the Great Hyperspace War.

 

After it the Sith race and the Sith Empire no longer existed, there were attempts to recreated the Sith Empire (notable by Kun) but they never lasted long enough to actually be a Sith Empire as there was before the Great Hyperspace War.

[EnderAndrew]

The story of the comics would have you believe that with Kun, so went the Sith.

 

The novels, and movies suggest that the Sith remained in small numbers for 4,000 years, popping back up with Darth Sidious.

 

My take is that the Sith beliefs, and people were basically wiped to almost total extinction at least twice (Exar Kun, and Darth Bane). In between, followers of Sith leaders may have temporarily flourished again.

 

In KOTOR, the Republic is the power, with the Sith being the challenger. I get the impression that in KOTOR:2, the Republic is going to be in shambles, and the new Sith Empire the power.

[Drakron]

Well I taken the Sith were pretty much done at the end of the Great Hyperspace War.

 

However the Sith had knowledge and also many of the older Sith Lords remained as Sith Ghosts that teached some in the Sith way.

 

Exar Kun is a perfect example, a force user that was inclined to follow the Sith teaching and he was simply one of many.

 

In order to be a Nazi you simply need to follow Nazi idiology, the same with the Sith ... in order to be a Sith you simply need to follow Sith idiology and there is always someone willing to start his own Sith Cult.

 

The fact that at some times after the Great Hyperspace the Sith were united can be a matter of someone being openly a Sith Lord and claiming that title, I suspect the truth is even with Kun there were small groups that did not joined because he was not their Sith Lord.

 

Funny thing is that I dont consider Palpatine much a Sith Lord in the sense of him acepting the Sith idiology, I think that Palpatine views the Sith as another tool for him to reach power and something that can be discarted if its of no longer use.

[Muad'Dib]

From all the research I've managed to find there have been 2 Sith Empires. The first one was the Empire with the actual Sith race, of which I've found very little information out of. At some point Jedi discovered Korriban, found the ancient Sith teachings and brought them back for study. Slowly they would begin to fall to the Dark Side and were banished from the Jedi Order when they refused to stop studying these teachings. These outcasts then returned to Korriban and interbred with native Sith (though this always confused me a bit since suppsedly the Sith were extinct so how they did this I have no clue).

 

Anyways, the second Sith Empire was the one formed by Marka Ragnos when he united all of the Sith clans under his leadership 5,000 years before Episode 1. This saw the civil war between Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh and was the same Empire Exar Kun led in the Great Sith War. The Sith Empire of KotOR isn't exactly the same one from the EU comics and novels, though it's supposed to be, at least in part having united with Revan's forces when he returned from the Mandalorian Wars. The events of KotOR and the EU are not the same, the game draws heavy inspiration from these events but don't follow everything to the letter the way it was originally established. For example the Marka Ragnos of KotOR 1 was not the same Marka Ragnos of the EU that united the Sith clans. But for argument's sake let's say it is exactly the same Empire as it's supposed to be; the Sith Empire did survive after Kun, Kun died some 4,000 years before Episode 1, the Sith Empire was supposedly destroyed 1,000 years before Episode 1 when the last surviving Sith Lord, Darth Bane, went into hiding revising the Sith Code with the One Master/Disciple tenet.

[Drakron]

I am sorry to say your research is wrong, likely you based on some fan site.

 

There is only one source for that time preriod, the "Tales of the Jedi" line of comics.

 

Marka Ragnos was one of the last Sith Lords of the proper Sith Empire after rulling for 100 years (he was a Sith as in the Sith race that existed at that time) and the Sith Empire golden age (that ended with Ragnos) lasted for 1000 years so it is THAT acient ... of course the Great Hyperspace War that destroyed it was 1000 years before SW:KotOR takes place.

[Muad'Dib]

I based my information on the unofficial SW encyclopedia which takes its info from the books, novels, comics, etc. There is a big possibility I am wrong, I have not read the Tales of the Jedi comics, I do believe there was a series of comics named Knights of the Old Republic also? Or am I wrong about that as well

 

I do know that Ragnos was the Dark Lord of the Sith some 5,000 years before EP1, I know that his death led to the power struggle between Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow and I know his spirit named Exar Kun Lord of the Sith during the Great Sith War.

 

I also know that the Sith were destroyed in the battle of Ruusan some 1K years before Ep.1, where Darth Bane was the only one to escape, he found Exar Kun's holocron on Dxun and established the One Master/Apprentice guideline for the Sith. Even in Ep1 they mention the Sith had been around 1K years earlier when Qui-Gon describes his attack in Tatooine.

 

But that's only what I've found, wether that goes against the Tales of the Jedi or not I don't know. But it is my understanding the Sith Empire still existed to a point until Darth Bane's lifetime when they were finally finished off by infighting and the Jedi some 3K years after Kun which was the original topic, whether the Sith existed after Kun or not.

[Dead Skin Mask]

Jolee makes it clear that the Sith of this time period are not the same Sith faced during the Exar Kun war.

Actually somebody in the game says the Sith are no longer a race of people, but a group of races following the Sith ideals. The Sith Jolee fought in the Sith War are the same Sith Revan would have had by his side except for the Massassi of course. Exar Kun recruited his followers from the existing Jedi ranks. It was the Sith War that gave birth to a new Sith army, one made up of people following the Sith ideals and teachings not members of the Sith race itself (with exception of the Massassi who were the last of the Sith race that had been twisted by Naga Sadow's Sith magic). Revan could have easily gathered together the remnants of Exar Kun's army which had retreated and regrouped in the outer rim. Plus lets face it the Republic has many enemies in the outer rim worlds who would be more than happy to follow a powerful charismatic leader who promises to destroy the Republic by means of an ultimate weapon. Also the reasons the Republic didn't follow the Sith back to the outer were the Republic was extremely weakened by the war with Exar Kun, the Republic knew they would be over extended and would be vulnerable to a counter attack by a combination of Madalorians/Sith/Kraths who had all fled to outer rim space after the battle of Yavin IV, the Republic also knew the Sith themselves no longer proved to be a threat to the Republic now that they had no leader to unite under, and the Jedi were afraid they might lose more Jedi to the Darkside by invading the outer rim just like they lost Exar Kun when he visited the Sith tomb world of Korriban. That's why the Madalorian's were pretty much free to do as they pleased in the outer rim because the Republic was licking their wounds. Are you sure about that Jolee quote? If so it seems to be a writers goof.

 

Cheers!

[Drakron]

based my information on the unofficial SW encyclopedia which takes its info from the books, novels, comics, etc. There is a big possibility I am wrong, I have not read the Tales of the Jedi comics, I do believe there was a series of comics named Knights of the Old Republic also? Or am I wrong about that as well

 

Well "Knights of the Old Republic" is simply one of the set of the "Tales of the Jedi" line.

 

I do know that Ragnos was the Dark Lord of the Sith some 5,000 years before EP1, I know that his death led to the power struggle between Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow and I know his spirit named Exar Kun Lord of the Sith during the Great Sith War.

 

Well no ... when Ragnos died the seat of the SIth Empire leadership was naturaly empty and those two wanted to became the leader.

 

Ragnos had to fight for becaming the leader of the Sith but he feared that Naga and Ludo would create a civil war (Ragnos did a duel with his opoment) and he show up at his funeral to warm those two to not destroy the Sith with their conflicts.

 

The biggest problem was the Republic scout ship that also show up and that was what divided the Sith, some wanted to attack and other wanted to wait and ... we all know what happened

 

I also know that the Sith were destroyed in the battle of Ruusan some 1K years before Ep.1, where Darth Bane was the only one to escape, he found Exar Kun's holocron on Dxun and established the One Master/Apprentice guideline for the Sith. Even in Ep1 they mention the Sith had been around 1K years earlier when Qui-Gon describes his attack in Tatooine.

 

When Lucas make the prequels he made the Sith and the Jedi diferent that shown in the comics, that story was simply the way for EU to explain the diferences of what we have seen in the comics and what we have seen on the prequels.

 

But that's only what I've found, wether that goes against the Tales of the Jedi or not I don't know. But it is my understanding the Sith Empire still existed to a point until Darth Bane's lifetime when they were finally finished off by infighting and the Jedi some 3K years after Kun which was the original topic, whether the Sith existed after Kun or not.

 

Again, the proper Sith Empired died at the end of the Great Hyperspace War.

 

After it we have Sith cults that at some times tried to recreate the Sith Empire or simply take control of parts of the Galaxy but none come close to the Sith Empire.

 

There was no lines that separed the borders of the Sith of the Republic, in fact there was rarely open Sith movements since that would attract Jedi attention.

 

Ruusan was simply many Sith fractions coming together to destroy the Jedi with resulted with the destruction of the Sith (except Bane and naturaly the many Sith ghosts) and the near destruction of the Jedi.

 

There is no Sith Empire after the Great Hyperspace War.

[Guest Exar Kun]

" ...But for argument's sake let's say it is exactly the same Empire as it's supposed to be; the Sith Empire did survive after Kun, Kun died some 4,000 years before Episode 1, the Sith Empire was supposedly destroyed 1,000 years before Episode 1 when the last surviving Sith Lord, Darth Bane, went into hiding revising the Sith Code with the One Master/Disciple tenet. "

Actually, Kun didn't die 4,000 years before Ep. 1...he summoned all of his dark side energies and trapped his consciousness within the Massassi Temple. Thus technically leaveing him alive while it might have only been in spirit form. He slumbered for 4 millennia until (that pesky) Luke Skywalker set up his Jedi Academy on Yavin IV. Then, however Skywalker's students managed to dispel Kun's spirit. Meaning Kun was not truly killed until after ROTJ.

[Meshugger]

Come to think about it, how did the Sith as species differ from humans?

[Child of Flame]

Come to think about it, how did the Sith as species differ from humans?

They were a buggy bony insectoid species. Quite frankly, I doubt it would have been possible for them to interbreed without the dark side energies.

[Meshugger]

Come to think about it, how did the Sith as species differ from humans?

They were a buggy bony insectoid species. Quite frankly, I doubt it would have been possible for them to interbreed without the dark side energies.

Pics?

[Child of Flame]

Come to think about it, how did the Sith as species differ from humans?

They were a buggy bony insectoid species. Quite frankly, I doubt it would have been possible for them to interbreed without the dark side energies.

Pics?

There are none, it's like what world Yoda comes from, it's a mystery....there are descriptions but no pics, at least not on google, unless you count some of the comic pictures of some of the Sith/human mongrel early sith lords.

 

:ph34r:

[EnderAndrew]

Taken from The Unofficial Star Wars Encyclopedia

 

Sith

this ancient race of insect-like humanoids was characterized by its dark, red skin, cranial horns, and long bony chins. There were several subspecies of Sith, each with its own place in their society. Some were slaves, other were warriors, and the highest caste of all were the magicians. They lived in a remote sector of the ancient galaxy, and were unknown to most until a group of Jedi Knights discovered their existence. The early Sith regarded the Dark Jedi as gods. The Force-sensitive Sith magicians proved to have control over the Dark Side of the Force, and the Jedi took many of their tomes and teachings back to study. They hoped to determine ways to avoid the Dark Side, but a group of Jedi found the allure of the Dark Side and the Sith teachings too powerful. They rose up against their Masters, but were not yet powerful enough to defeat them. The Dark Jedi were banished from the Old Republic, and chose to flee across the galaxy to the worlds of the true Sith. Over the millennia, the two groups intermingled, until very little pure Sith blood remained. One of the early Dark Lords of the Sith was Marka Ragnos, who was succeeded by Naga Sadow. Freedon Nadd was a later Dark Lord who was caught by the Jedi Knights on Onderon and entombed there. Nadd's spirit invaded the body and mind of Exar Kun, who eventually became a Dark Lord himself. They developed a rigid hierarchy of magicians and warriors, with the leadership of the brotherhood falling to the current Dark Lord of the Sith. The Sith wrote expansive volumes on the control and use of the Dark Side, and described incredible manifestations of power. Later, they were able to created amulets and weaponry that could assist the user in controlling the Dark Side. These devices amplified the Dark Side, making the user incredibly powerful. Much of the Sith lore was hidden on various worlds when the ancient Jedi Knights first sought to eradicate the Sith. Some was stored on Korriban, some on the moon of Yavin 4. The last remained true-blooded Sith were wiped out by Exar Kun during the Great Sith War, when he stole their life energy in an effort to defend his fortress on Yavin 4 against the forces of the Old Republic. (SW, DA, FNU, DLS, TSW, GAS, FOSE)

[Enoch]

[The Sith were an] ancient race of insect-like humanoids was characterized by its dark, red skin, cranial horns, and long bony chins. . . .

 

The Dark Jedi were banished from the Old Republic, and chose to flee across the galaxy to the worlds of the true Sith. Over the millennia, the two groups intermingled, until very little pure Sith blood remained.

Ewwww!!

 

Insectoid races that could cross-breed with more traditional Jedi races? I don't even know where to start, there's so much wrong with that.

[EnderAndrew]

With great power comes great responsibility.

 

Now go lick that carapace!

[Dead Skin Mask]

Pics?

This is the Sith after breeding with the Jedi. http://www.darklordsofsith.com//sith/kressh.htm

 

There is also another pic of a Sith Warrior on the main page under "who are the Sith." The red skin was a identifying trait along with the long horned helmets. The Massassi were also Sith but they were changed physically by Naga Sadows dark Sith magic. The Sith were a barbaric war like society much like the Goths or the Huns.

 

 

Cheers!

[GhostofAnakin]

Umm...how accurate is that site? Considering they have a guy on there called "Lord Invader" who is supposed to exist 2000 years AFTER Return of the Jedi.

[Dead Skin Mask]

Umm...how accurate is that site? Considering they have a guy on there called "Lord Invader" who is supposed to exist 2000 years AFTER Return of the Jedi.

Everything on that site is dead on except for the Invader guy who was the made up d20 character of the guy who ran the site. The guy was a bit strange but all the stuff on the site about the Sith was taken directly word for word in some cases from the Star Wars comics.

 

 

Cheers!