Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Owlcat Games' next isometric Pathfinder RPG

[Sarex]

Lol, they are going the bioware route, of making everyone bisexual...

[ShadySands]

4 of the 7 anyway.

The chat on the update is pretty much as expected. Some want them all to be playersexual and some want more options for X orientation.

[Gromnir]

wrath of the righteous, unlike many premade pnp adventures, contemplated companion npcs who would join your party, albeit at a somewhat diminished level. the pnp ap contemplated romances with the companions and bisexual were arguable the default option. yeah, more than a few o' the companions in owlcat's wotr are unique to the crpg, but we would be surprised if paizo didn't have input on the choice o' romance preferences o' companions.

for those familiar with the wotr ap, the romance preferences o' companions being inclusive as 'posed to exclusive is predictable.

from our pov, companion romances in crpgs is always terrible. always. as long as such is kept optional and tangential, am not concerned.  am finding weird how invested is people with not just the romances but the gender preferences. *shrug* optional and tangential, so who cares? is not as if owlcat invested a whole lotta effort into the writing aspect o' kingmaker, so is not as if adding romance options is some kinda resource sink. 

whatever.

have spent some effort doing the army management. heroes o' might and magic is an obvious inspiration. the interface is less intuitive than we would want-- took us a few long minutes o' frustration trying to figure out how to split units. am understanding there is less o' quest on a timer aspect to army management than were the case o' kingdom building in owlcat's previous effort, but am not certain how that is gonna work in wotr? you gain resources based on a timer, so...

am too early into the army management stuff to offer some kinda definitive opinion. am a bit annoyed that our default tactic when fighting powerful melee units involves offering sacrificial single units to be destroyed while our archers decimate. have become extreme reliant on cleric and leader healing to restore unit strength before the end o' a battle, which feels like cheese. am having difficulty impacting morale to any degree. etc. will offer more meaningful feedback when we have more experience. we will note the combat and army management doesn't appear bugged to any significant degree. like it or hate it, army management is working as intended.

as we play more, we notice more bugs, and a few is irksome. having to toggle rapid shot is a pain to get the correct number o' attacks  as we default to a single attack for our zen archer/sanctified slayer unless we do so. we took an animal companion as part o' our priestly domain, but the animal companion archetype did not carry over from animal companion generation to actual gameplay. maybe not a bug, but am having nowhere to purchase cold iron arrows/bolts early in chap 2, so archery value is diminished. skalds is busted every which way with the inability to apply keening spells or choose bard specific feats as well as archetypes defaulting to vanilla skald post character generation. pc slayers is similar busted when attempting to choose feats. mythic stuff is borked as often as not. can't get a second spirit for our spirit shaman companion, 'cause that option don't work. impossible domain is indeed appropriate named as is impossible for a cleric to add a third. etc.

nevertheless, the bugs is still fewer in number and severity than expected and the overall stability o' the game is excellent. loading times is satisfactory and nowhere near as bad as were kingmaker when it were released. is not a deep rpg experience so far, and our pre-knowledge o' the ap perhaps undercuts some o' the impact pivotal events, but am not thinking fans o' kingmaker were looking for depth so much as breadth. kingmaker offered a huge range o' character development and gameplay options and wotr expands the menu o' choices. 

wotr is exceeding expectations so far.

as an aside, one o' the recent developer gameplay streams was a h00t. 

we didn't watch anywhere near seven hours, but we wanted to.

HA! Good fun!

Edited February 14, 2021 by Gromnir

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, Sarex said:

Lol, they are going the bioware route, of making everyone bisexual...

Honestly I'd love to see all party members be horny bisexuals but all of them are completely uninterested in the player. 

[majestic]

2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

wrath of the righteous, unlike many premade pnp adventures, contemplated companion npcs who would join your party, albeit at a somewhat diminished level. the pnp ap contemplated romances with the companions and bisexual were arguable the default option. yeah, more than a few o' the companions in owlcat's wotr are unique to the crpg, but we would be surprised if paizo didn't have input on the choice o' romance preferences o' companions.

for those familiar with the wotr ap, the romance preferences o' companions being inclusive as 'posed to exclusive is predictable.

from our pov, companion romances in crpgs is always terrible. always. as long as such is kept optional and tangential, am not concerned.  am finding weird how invested is people with not just the romances but the gender preferences. *shrug* optional and tangential, so who cares? is not as if owlcat invested a whole lotta effort into the writing aspect o' kingmaker, so is not as if adding romance options is some kinda resource sink. 

whatever.

have spent some effort doing the army management. heroes o' might and magic is an obvious inspiration. the interface is less intuitive than we would want-- took us a few long minutes o' frustration trying to figure out how to split units. am understanding there is less o' quest on a timer aspect to army management than were the case o' kingdom building in owlcat's previous effort, but am not certain how that is gonna work in wotr? you gain resources based on a timer, so...

am too early into the army management stuff to offer some kinda definitive opinion. am a bit annoyed that our default tactic when fighting powerful melee units involves offering sacrificial single units to be destroyed while our archers decimate. have become extreme reliant on cleric and leader healing to restore unit strength before the end o' a battle, which feels like cheese. am having difficulty impacting morale to any degree. etc. will offer more meaningful feedback when we have more experience. we will note the combat and army management doesn't appear bugged to any significant degree. like it or hate it, army management is working as intended.

as we play more, we notice more bugs, and a few is irksome. having to toggle rapid shot is a pain to get the correct number o' attacks  as we default to a single attack for our zen archer/sanctified slayer unless we do so. we took an animal companion as part o' our priestly domain, but the animal companion archetype did not carry over from animal companion generation to actual gameplay. maybe not a bug, but am having nowhere to purchase cold iron arrows/bolts early in chap 2, so archery value is diminished. skalds is busted every which way with the inability to apply keening spells or choose bard specific feats as well as archetypes defaulting to vanilla skald post character generation. pc slayers is similar busted when attempting to choose feats. mythic stuff is borked as often as not. can't get a second spirit for our spirit shaman companion, 'cause that option don't work. impossible domain is indeed appropriate named as is impossible for a cleric to add a third. etc.

nevertheless, the bugs is still fewer in number and severity than expected and the overall stability o' the game is excellent. loading times is satisfactory and nowhere near as bad as were kingmaker when it were released. is not a deep rpg experience so far, and our pre-knowledge o' the ap perhaps undercuts some o' the impact pivotal events, but am not thinking fans o' kingmaker were looking for depth so much as breadth. kingmaker offered a huge range o' character development and gameplay options and wotr expands the menu o' choices. 

wotr is exceeding expectations so far.

as an aside, one o' the recent developer gameplay streams was a h00t. 

we didn't watch anywhere near seven hours, but we wanted to.

HA! Good fun!

Okay, so this is not her fault, but that unicorn hoodie is creepy. If I never see another unicorn anywhere it'll be too soon.

[uuuhhii]

5 hours ago, Sarex said:

Lol, they are going the bioware route, of making everyone bisexual...

paizo just made spider and human ship canon

and serum of sex shift cost 60gold in golarion

hard to imagine there are much obstacle for any romance in a world like this

[Vaeliorin]

Does anyone know if they changed trip so that it works with iteratives?  Just curious whether I'll be able to play my tripping, shield-bashing warpriest straight off, or if I'll need to wait for mods.

[ShadySands]

Took me a while to get the hang of the army battles but I still don't think I like them. I wish my character or party played a role.

[Sarex]

I don't know why they insist on these mini games...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I haven't touched the beta since getting screwed on Arcanist and wiped by a water elemental. Thinking about going in as a Magus or Bloodrager when I have time. 

13 minutes ago, Sarex said:

I don't know why they insist on these mini games...

Stretch goal filler. Should've just **** out a class or prestige class(es) instead.

[Gromnir]

kingdom building were fundamental to the kingmaker ap.  am suspecting a whole lotta work went into kingdom building. no doubt the owlcat developers were considering future adventure paths to recreate even as they were working on kingmaker, and am expecting they didn't wanna just trashbin the tools they had worked so hard to create. jade regents has caravans. skull and shackles has ship combat. hell's rebels has you building and commanding a rebellion. etc. wrath of the righteous has army management. not all o' the pathfinder adventure paths have such "mini-games," but a few do and am suspecting every ap on owlcats short list for game #2 included the minigame aspect. 

like it or not, army management is part o' wrath of the righteous.

have no idea what the internal deliberations at owlcat is regarding the next ap. would be shocked if there hadn't already been discussion as to whether or not they once again attempt to make kingdom building tools anything more than wasted engine utility. 

reign of winter is perhaps the too obvious choice for game #3 if owlcat complete abandons the kingdom building aspect o' their engine. winter is not our favorite, but it includes baba yaga and rasputin, so...

haven't played in near a week, so we wouldn't be surprised if shady has more experience with army management than does Gromnir at this point. our overall impression were that army management were less aggravating than were kingdom building, but mass combat didn't add much enjoyment to wotr... just an extra chore.

since our previous post, we did observe how to hire a mercenary companion is prohibitive expensive unless you do so at the start o' the game. costs 2000 gold if you haven't leveled your party to 3 after leaving the labyrinth. a level 3 companion may be purchased while party is still level 2, but hit level 3 and you get charged 4500. gets steeper as you progress. so for purchased companions, go early or go w/o. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Vaeliorin]

I'd have kind of liked to have seen the Runelord APs done, just because I'm curious about them.  I've never played any of the Pathfinder APs (never actually played tabletop Pathfinder, played tons of various versions of D&D and other TTRPGs, however) and I was always curious about the story of those (though, I am admittedly a sucker for high fantasy stuff, and those sound like they fall into that category.)

[ShadySands]

 

I retook Drezen and the queen commented on how many troops I lost along the way. I thought it was a nice touch but now I'm curious about the mechanics of it. How many troops is the cutoff? I guess next time I'll just skip a bunch of time and build up my forces  and see how much I can metagame it.

Edited February 21, 2021 by ShadySands

[Gromnir]

43 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

  Hide contents

I retook Drezen and the queen commented on how many troops I lost along the way. I thought it was a nice touch but now I'm curious about the mechanics of it. How many troops is the cutoff? I guess next time I'll just skip a bunch of time and build up my forces  and see how much I can metagame it.

y'know, the capacity to initial build footmen and archer forces by doing nothing but skipping days were our concern. earlier in the thread we observed how gathering resources necessary for acquiring troops were based on a timer, with no obvious and immediate punishment for expending time, but that doesn't feel right if is true. perhaps enemy forces get more numerous with time too? haven't had time to test. 

HA! Good Fun!

[uuuhhii]

5 hours ago, Vaeliorin said:

I'd have kind of liked to have seen the Runelord APs done, just because I'm curious about them.  I've never played any of the Pathfinder APs (never actually played tabletop Pathfinder, played tons of various versions of D&D and other TTRPGs, however) and I was always curious about the story of those (though, I am admittedly a sucker for high fantasy stuff, and those sound like they fall into that category.)

was hoping they merge rise and return of runelord into one game

[ShadySands]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

y'know, the capacity to initial build footmen and archer forces by doing nothing but skipping days were our concern. earlier in the thread we observed how gathering resources necessary for acquiring troops were based on a timer, with no obvious and immediate punishment for expending time, but that doesn't feel right if is true. perhaps enemy forces get more numerous with time too? haven't had time to test. 

According to the beta forums there is no drawback to skipping time to build up your forces. One poster even said they skipped years.

Dunno why I thought archmage was a mythic path but I just went back and it's not listed on the Kickstarter. The stretch goal paths aren't in yet and neither is the make your own. I went azata or whatever it's called with my dhampir blood keneticist.

Edited February 21, 2021 by ShadySands

[Gromnir]

from a portion o' the gameplay video we linked, the developer mentioned how numerous mythic paths are not available from the start: lich, swarm that walks, legend, trickster and gold dragon... but she were kinda equivocating a bit.  she did make clear that if you wanted to reject the demon/angel/dragon kinda stuff and choose legend, doing so would require a late(r) game rejection o' the immortality mythic paths. suggested other mythic paths were similar and one would need initial chose aeon, demon or other before eventual being able to go with gold dragon or swarm. will also note that while we assume owlcat's trickster ain't exact same as paizo's, "luck" were a mythic choice available at the end o' the first ap conclusion and we cannot guess what else luck would correspond with other than trickster given the options.

HA! Good Fun!

[ShadySands]

I can confirm that lich, angel, demon, azata, aeon, and trickster are in the beta right now. Lich was the only one of those that gets unlocked after the first city. I did like that you can miss or lock yourself out of the paths as it seems like angel and demon are the only ones you get as part of the crit path without choosing them.

Also, kingdom management kicks in after you take Drezen

Edited February 21, 2021 by ShadySands

[bugarup]

One more reason (next to inevitable bugmess) to sit on the game for a year -- to wait for a guide on how not to lock oneself out of something cool like swarm that walks. Angels and demons are so tacky.

I wonder if I can still romance those horny bisexuals as a swarm.

 

[ShadySands]

Getting a lot of bugs now so I think I'll take a long break. I'm really digging the game so I dunno if I can wait until release to get back to it but I'll try.  More likely I'll just play the first couple of chapters a few more times with different classes.

[ShadySands]

Spoiler

Replayed up to after taking Drezen and the queen still chastised me for losing too many troops leading up to Drezen even though I didn't lose a single one. I'm guessing it's either a bug or it's counting something else like the gargoyle attack, Lost Chapel, and maybe even the invasion of Drezen. I have no idea how many troops died in those areas and also not sure how I can save more as it seems pretty random other than the few times in the Lost Chapel where you need to pick the correct option and pass a skill check (I only failed 1 of those). With all the open fighting in those 3 maps I'm not sure what else I can do except cheat or cheese it somehow. Maybe tuning the enemies to be as weak as possible, I dunno.

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by ShadySands

[Gromnir]

On 3/8/2021 at 1:32 PM, ShadySands said:

  Hide contents

Replayed up to after taking Drezen and the queen still chastised me for losing too many troops leading up to Drezen even though I didn't lose a single one. I'm guessing it's either a bug or it's counting something else like the gargoyle attack, Lost Chapel, and maybe even the invasion of Drezen. I have no idea how many troops died in those areas and also not sure how I can save more as it seems pretty random other than the few times in the Lost Chapel where you need to pick the correct option and pass a skill check (I only failed 1 of those). With all the open fighting in those 3 maps I'm not sure what else I can do except cheat or cheese it somehow. Maybe tuning the enemies to be as weak as possible, I dunno.

 

Spoiler

had a similar experience and we lost extreme minimal numbers o' troops on the way to drezen. however, we did accidental take a wrong turn when going after the bug queen at leper's smile. at the time we were warned troops would be lost if we failed to get to queen timely. perhaps the one wrong turn at albuquerque were enough to bust the results, or as you note, there is a bug. we will replay leper's smile on our second playthrough to drezen w/o choosing any path other than a straight line to the queen.

we will note that the battle with the gargoyles when rescuing regill's hellknights was difficult for us on core. we lost most o' the folks in that cave fight and if such plays a role in the queen's observation, then am just gonna need accept that we will be a terrible commander in the eyes o' the queen, 'cause we replayed 3 times and only reason we survived were spamming dazzling display with a character who had improbable high intimidate and a level o' thug. 

stopped immediate post drezen 'cause we didn't want to do kingdom management and 'cause a bug had busted our seelah progression making it impossible for us to take more than one level o' dragon disciple. our fault really. we mentioned in an earlier post we knew a few aspects o' skald were busted, but we didn't realize just how busted it were. functional stuck with two levels o' court poet w/o much use save one extra bab. nevertheless, we got a decent feel for the game with 9 ordinary levels and 3 levels o' mythic.

hadn't looked at any mythic paths info, so level 3 mythic were kinda a surprise. went angel, but the dragon companion looks kinda strong for azata. can you have two animal companions if you choose azata and have an animal comp from another class? seems like some weird potential overkill with three levels o' inquisitor huntsmaster. 

...

we saw a couple comments on another board complaining 'bout nenio, which is curious 'cause she is likely our favorite companion thus far. prohibitions on abjuration and necromancy make her a bit tougher to work with than am desiring, but from a practical pov, she looks like an eventual effective arcane trickster. as far as writing, there ain't a whole lotta depth in any o' the companions, but nenio is unique and kinda amusing.  am quite willing to go along with being her "servant" for the time being. none o' the companions is ideal from a build pov, but none is broken neither. example: am not a fan o' baba yaga's "granddaughter" (just a guess 'bout ember)  but she might be the party mvp so far with her combo o' slumber and evil eye after our party intimidator lowers saving throws via shaken. 

will likely play through drezen again and the battle with staunton vhane... which ended up being curiously ez in spite o' fact we had a bug which effective prevented us from resting after we enter the citadel proper. 

lots o' bugs, just few game breakers.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited March 12, 2021 by Gromnir

[ShadySands]

I do believe you can have 2 animal companions but I'll test it tomorrow to make sure. I ended up installing a mod that lets me add levels and mythic levels so that I can just test stuff out and see if some combos and abilities are working. 

I'm also thinking of playing through Drezen again on the easiest level with all the enemies tuned to be as weak as possible to see if I can save everyone during the gargoyle attack and at the Lost Chapel.

It will probably take a lot of retries.

[ShadySands]

11 hours ago, ShadySands said:

I do believe you can have 2 animal companions but I'll test it tomorrow to make sure. I ended up installing a mod that lets me add levels and mythic levels so that I can just test stuff out and see if some combos and abilities are working. 

Ok, I can finally confirm this after several tries because I kept picking an animal companion that is bugged and doesn't show up, wolf, so I went with dog. Then I gave myself 3 mythic levels and went Azata and now I have 2 animal companions.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Man I really should get into this.

Give me a quick rundown of the mythic paths, like how you choose them and what they could do.