Fix Supernova

[Ganddolph]

The only sleep in ships beds is a joke. Should be able to sleep in any bed " can put things in like if its a persons bed they can kick you out". If its in a dangerous area set debuffs to warn you about intruders approaching. Fast travel should be any major spots on map not just to the ship. Having less saves is good but not only in ship or random hardly ever auto saves. If you are going to give the  water food problems then give players more ways of getting drinks and food not quick eating food let us create from sources like all the water and food from all over some places not just from a machine that you have to buy water and joke food. Your companions should not die forever they are not good enough ai's they don't fight right all the time they are stupid so don't kill them if they die a lot start giving the take longer to revive and have their health back, make them slower not as good for long periods of time but stop letting them die. Sure there's more but leaving it to that for now.

[MarkK79]

I generally agree with the OP.  There are too many Supernova restrictions that have nothing to do with making the game more challenging and have everything to do with making it more tedious and annoying.

At the very least, respect the player's time and allow us to save on quit.  

[thearmourofGod]

in TOW, save upon quit = fast-travel to ship (the save occurs before teleportation)

im for in-depth gameplay and hud customization, but, companion semi-perma-death (perk) and limited saving (no save scumming) makes a game challenging and more difficult in a meaningful way

there is ONE mode with these gampelay limitations; an optional mode

for me, i want MORE in-game limitations and consequences

however, after playing this game a bit i now know this is a different style of game and not an open-world NV type and can accept its mechanics

[Ommamar]

I won't play supernova as I feel it just detracts from the game.  I would love to be able to select different restrictions on hard mode to tailor the game to how I want to play.

[Jill7894]

The two biggest problems with Supernova are DEFINITELY the sleeping and the companions. I play with companions and have to trudge along throughout the maps, wary of any encounters because if I run in, they'll probably die. If I don't have any companions, I can just go in and slaughter everything. I noticed that after I let the two companions that I had with me die, I was ransacking the map rather than carefully trudging through.

I don't think that fast travel should be included in hardcore modes though, and I don't know if simply drinking water from rivers and streams on an alien world without first altering the water would be safe.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Jill7894

[Jill7894]

3 minutes ago, Jill7894 said:

The two biggest problems with Supernova are DEFINITELY the sleeping and the companions. I play with companions and have to trudge along throughout the maps, wary of any encounters because if I run in, they'll probably die. If I don't have any companions, I can just go in and slaughter everything. I noticed that after I let the two companions that I had with me die, I was ransacking the map rather than carefully trudging through.

I don't think that fast travel should be included in hardcore modes though, and I don't know if simply drinking water from rivers and streams on an alien world without first altering the water would be safe or wise, especially when a town or vending machine (compared to real life distances) is at max only two or three miles away.

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Jill7894

[Basher SBC]

I went with Supernova right from the start because I like the idea that I have to be careful and measured in combat. I love almost everything about Supernova, EXCEPT the sleeping. I compare it to Fallout 4, where at least you had other beds around that you could sleep in. Making only one spot on a planet to sleep makes no sense. In fairness, I did discover that on Monarch you can move your ship to other locations (Stellar Bay, Fallbrook, Cascadia, etc). But if they were going to do this, then why not simply make it so you have a place to sleep in each location?

As far as followers, mine seem to be fine, but only because I went deep into the Leadership tree. But I certainly sympathize with those who didn't. If Obsidian wants to have a hardcore mode, it has to be viable for any build. 

[thearmourofGod]

4 hours ago, Basher SBC said:

I went with Supernova right from the start because I like the idea that I have to be careful and measured in combat. I love almost everything about Supernova, EXCEPT the sleeping. I compare it to Fallout 4, where at least you had other beds around that you could sleep in. Making only one spot on a planet to sleep makes no sense. In fairness, I did discover that on Monarch you can move your ship to other locations (Stellar Bay, Fallbrook, Cascadia, etc). But if they were going to do this, then why not simply make it so you have a place to sleep in each location?

As far as followers, mine seem to be fine, but only because I went deep into the Leadership tree. But I certainly sympathize with those who didn't. If Obsidian wants to have a hardcore mode, it has to be viable for any build. 

good stuff

tho, i absolutely feel it viable and i could have taken my early game experimentation with non-leadership builds to the end

it just took a bit more intelligent fighting tactics with appropriate armor/weapon upgrading and tinckering for them 

 

[stiven]

On 11/13/2019 at 8:50 AM, Ganddolph said:

The only sleep in ships beds is a joke. Should be able to sleep in any bed " can put things in like if its a persons bed they can kick you out". If its in a dangerous area set debuffs to warn you about intruders approaching. Fast travel should be any major spots on map not just to the ship. Having less saves is good but not only in ship or random hardly ever auto saves. If you are going to give the  water food problems then give players more ways of getting drinks and food not quick eating food let us create from sources like all the water and food from all over some places not just from a machine that you have to buy water and joke food. Your companions should not die forever they are not good enough ai's they don't fight right all the time they are stupid so don't kill them if they die a lot start giving the take longer to revive and have their health back, make them slower not as good for long periods of time but stop letting them die. Sure there's more but leaving it to that for now.

1. Git gut.

2. The only thing which really should be changed is ability to save, because with autosave on leaving location (which is essentially your quicksave), "no-save" is just stupid gimmick. Designed to waste your time for sitting on loading screen every time you are "quicksaving" before difficult dialog or fight, by leaving/entering location.

3. Also not as important, but companions is actually immortal on all difficulties, you just need levelup end-game perks on companions for them to revive themselves once in 15 min if they "die". And also you char have perk to revive your chpas every 15 min, by using healing item. Which makes those "mortal companions", thing, is pretty much dumb gimmick. They really should change it into something which makes more sense.

[Basher SBC]

20 hours ago, thearmourofGod said:

good stuff

tho, i absolutely feel it viable and i could have taken my early game experimentation with non-leadership builds to the end

it just took a bit more intelligent fighting tactics with appropriate armor/weapon upgrading and tinckering for them 

 

And I won't lie, the first 6 or 7 levels on Terra were a nightmare. I only had one companion, and had to do the "ship travel save" every time I met more than 3 enemies. But once I had Max and did some side quests on Groundbreaker, started tinkering, it really took off. Now I just turn the two of them loose and sometimes never fire a shot. I just manage their focus fire and watch their health while they mop up. It's great for someone like me, who is a terrible shot!

[LaMOi]

My main gripes with SUPERNOVA —-

 

 

1) WATER — at least have water source on your Ship! I mean water is almost game breaking in this mode. 
 

If you are going to have survival mechanics, and food and drink is a thing, then the game world needs to be built around that. Water is incredibly scarce in outer worlds you have to either find it as an item or buy it from vendor‘s and even still it’s in short supply. Seriously obsidian, YOU NEED TO ADD A WATER SOURCE ON YOUR SHIP. 
 

 

2) BEDS. 
 

I have to say most of the things I’m fine about in supernova mode. But I think there could be more beds! Having only one bed and that’s in the players ship, I think it’s just a bit of a stretch to be honest.

 

Everything else I’m generally cool with it I like the Perma death for the companions.

 

I know they die easily but then I think that you just have to keep that in mind.

having Perma death for companions in Skyrim made it so much more meaningful if they did die it just felt earned, you mourned your companion. It was a gaming moment. 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by LaMOi

[thearmourofGod]

17 hours ago, stiven said:

1. Git gut.

2. The only thing which really should be changed is ability to save, because with autosave on leaving location (which is essentially your quicksave), "no-save" is just stupid gimmick. Designed to waste your time for sitting on loading screen every time you are "quicksaving" before difficult dialog or fight, by leaving/entering location.

3. Also not as important, but companions is actually immortal on all difficulties, you just need levelup end-game perks on companions for them to revive themselves once in 15 min if they "die". And also you char have perk to revive your chpas every 15 min, by using healing item. Which makes those "mortal companions", thing, is pretty much dumb gimmick. They really should change it into something which makes more sense.

1.) becoming better at the game has no impact on the sleeping mechanics

2.) the TOW hybrid save system helps to limit save scumming; as well, its limited to one Optional level 

3.) end-level perks and perks one doesnt take have no impact on non-endlevel gameplay and, therefore, they are not immortal

in short, they are not “gimmicks” but purposeful and meaningful design decisions

[TKMcClone]

I played Supernova for my first play-through.  I didn't mind sleeping only in the ship. Early on, I really enjoyed the challenge of knowing that I had to manage my exploration time carefully. What killed me was concussions dropping my temperament and causing my healing to stop.  A number of times I had full food, water and sleep and came too close to a mine - boom! No damage but, instant concussion. I wish there was a consumable or a medical skill level that allowed you to 'cure'  a concussion without sleep. There needs to be some Supernova perks and bonuses.

Perma-death for companions was awesome. I set them to range and always told them where to stand. It helps to use sneak and sniper rifles early on.  I can see where it would be more challenging  if you let them melee.  When I started my 2nd run (dumb-thug character) I kept it with Supernova so than I can have a couple companions die to see how it affects the story.

Edited November 20, 2019 by TKMcClone

[metalworks]

My only concerns are with the only sleep and save on the ship, I can widly guess the philosophy behind this, but still, if there is a bed you should be able to sleep in it, or in any case rent a bed

Same thing with the saves, I think a save on sleep will probably fix it

[crimsonskill]

Please DO NOT listen to anything OP is saying. First and foremost, Supernova mode is the actual normal as described here: 

Permadeath on companions is ABSOLUTELY necessary for the baseline mode. Immortal companions should only stay on easier difficulties such beginner modes. Users playing the actual design of the game should not be able to exploit immortal companions. Such as sending them in as sacrificial lamb meat shields while sitting back sniping. Due to knowing they will survive anyway. This can only be prevented if companions have permanent death. Thereby, requiring users to actually play wisely. Including with companions. As is what a baseline difficulty is meant for.

Saves, sleeping, and fast travel are three mechanics that are fine in Supernova for the most part. There only needs to be a few minor adjustments to improve.

Firstly, it's well known that Botanical Labs choice is underdeveloped (this definitely needs to be reworked). You end up having to land at Edgewater even if you choose Botanical Labs. The only real advantage to Botanical Labs is cosmetic because you have access to the hat shop.

Certain spots in the game should allow all three mechanics in Supernova - Sleep, Fast Travel, Manual Save. For example, if choosing Botanical Labs or Edgewater. Whichever choice should reward users with a permanent spot to do all three of those things exactly like your ship. The same goes for getting your own housing. The only other thing would be temporary paid inn solely for sleeping. So a user can go to an inn, pay a fee to sleep there, and it autosaves. Nothing more is required.

The only thing for companions that I can say might need a bit of tweaking is lack of congruence with NPC stats for difficulty level. Seems they still use the same stats from normal difficulty despite Supernova/Hard difficulty using higher stats for NPCs/hostiles. Companion stats should be adjusted according to the difficulty setting. But this isn't even that much of a big deal. For the most part, as long as you're using your companions properly, there will never be a problem in Supernova using them effectively. Nothing really more needs to be altered for Supernova.

Edited November 21, 2019 by crimsonskill

[EidanClarke]

Far and away my biggest problem with Supernova is having to return to the ship constantly, and then having to trudge back to where I was in the game -- again and again and again on an endless loop. It's incredibly annoying and -- worse -- having to cover the same ground repeatedly and not being able to rest in any of the numerous beds in the world is extremely immersion-breaking. Survival modes are supposed to enhance immersion, not destroy it. 

So here are my simple suggestions for improving Supernova difficulty:

1. No fast travel whatsoever. Not even to the ship. I shouldn't be going back there constantly, I should feel lost in the world -- sometimes stranded in the wilderness. And I shouldn't feel like my playtime is on a timer before I have to rubber-band back to the ship. I should feel fully immersed in wherever I happen to be at all times.

2. Add the ability to relieve fatigue by resting in any bed in the world as long as no NPC owns it and no enemies are in the area. (I realize this makes the mode a bit easier, but it also makes it SO much more realistic and immersive, so I think it's a fair trade-off. Resting SHOULDN'T be that hard, just as drinking and eating aren't that hard. People are able to rough it. I should only be taking small detours in order to recover my energy, not massive, repetitive detours).

3. Only allow hard-saves in safe zones/settlements, e.g. The Unreliable, Edgewater, the Botanical Garden, etc. (You could show these safe zones on the map by colouring them green or something), and continue to have autosaves during loading-screen transitions, but nowhere else. There should be no saving whilst out in the wilderness or in the middle of a dungeon. I like that. It creates the risk and tension I'm looking for in this kind of mode.  I want to lose some progress if I screw up and get killed. That makes me play more cautiously.

(You could also implement an exit-save that deletes automatically when you restart, so that people can actually leave right in the middle of a play-session, if you want to … I'm sure yours would actually work, unlike the exit save in Fallout 4 which is absolutely broken, lol).