The Ultimate discussion thread Pt 2

[Raven Darkholme]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

SC Mage Slayer!

Not gonna lie I was thinking about that one just for you.

What I'm experimenting with rn is cipher + street sweeper + tenuous grasp.

Self confuse with Rakhan and sweeper for 20ish secs, but then on a crit its 60 secs with tenous.

The amount of possibilites cipher gets with self confuse is pretty insane including taking care of vela, but also being able to self target allied skills....

I just don't know what to multiclass it with, or even single class, remake alotta but in the ultimate??!

[Raven Darkholme]

Hm, tested it a bit and it's a lot less good than I thought initially.

First application of confused will not be overwritten, so the base duration of street sweeper is all you get and Rakhan can't be recast more than once in combat.

Also self targeting allied skills does not work since charmed and dominated lets you lose control of char.

One interesting observation: When charming/dominating out of combat this will put you in combat.

While at the start you don't have control, once charm wears off you will still have a couple seconds control of your char before combat ends.

And ofc also all allied and foe only spells can be cast on vela, paladin stuff for example, or Stasis shell.

You can charm vela too I guess, no idea what purpose that serves.

[Reent]

6 minutes ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Hm, tested it a bit and it's a lot less good than I thought initially.

First application of confused will not be overwritten, so the base duration of street sweeper is all you get and Rakhan can't be recast more than once in combat.

Also self targeting allied skills does not work since charmed and dominated lets you lose control of char.

One interesting observation: When charming/dominating out of combat this will put you in combat.

While at the start you don't have control, once charm wears off you will still have a couple seconds control of your char before combat ends.

And ofc also all allied and foe only spells can be cast on vela, paladin stuff for example, or Stasis shell.

You can charm vela too I guess, no idea what purpose that serves.

tried a berserker/cypher for a sec, it would be cool to cast brilliant on yourself right after (while) frenzy wears of - but just as you said, can't cast the spells on yourself

too bad, that would have been a fun character - very fun, need confused? Change Modwyr do something, use frenzy

[Raven Darkholme]

5 minutes ago, Reent said:

tried a berserker/cypher for a sec, it would be cool to cast brilliant on yourself right after (while) frenzy wears of - but just as you said, can't cast the spells on yourself

too bad, that would have been a fun character - very fun, need confused? Change Modwyr do something, use frenzy

Brilliant + confused is no problem if you are not above being cheesy.

As always the key to all cheese is strand of favour.

get brilliant thru any item effect granting it, Shroud of the phantasm or least unstable coil and who knows what else.

Prolong it with strand of favour for however long you want it, 100ish equips will get you over 20k secs.

(really fast if you have another necklace in inventory and just keep double clicking invent)

Now the real trick is to make the game think you don't have brilliant (sadly this doesn't work with confuse from street sweeper, first thing I tried ofc :P)

To do this simply unequip your shroud or coil, quicksave and reload.

Voila you now have a unique effect called shroud of the phantasm/least unstable coil, but you can also be confused and will not lose it.

 

Berserker is definitely a nice candidate just for the sake of self confuse but it doesn't bring much else for the ultimate.

[Boeroer]

It brings self damage which makes the ultimate much more spicy!

[Raven Darkholme]

All this talk of Mage Slayers and berserkers made me go and try out Barb.

One interesting thing i found was Bloodlust being out of combat and prolongable with Strand but sadly it doesn't stack.

[Boeroer]

Doesn't stack with what? Other speed stuff? It stacks with Frenzy's speed buff...

[Raven Darkholme]

8 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Doesn't stack with what? Other speed stuff? It stacks with Frenzy's speed buff...

With itself.

I was being a cheeselord wanting to stack it off barrels etc, but I guess if you combine it with enough action speed buffs, "frenzy" from Amra etc, you might be able to reach 0 attack time anyway.

(it's like 0.4 even with just barb frenzy + bloodlust on a avg speed weapon)

Another upside of Bloodlust is, it seems to negate halted recovery from reforge the flesh, so you can freely weapon switch.

I might just go for soulblade/ranger tho, onepunching everything is just too much fun and with autoclicker "stranding" doesn't take that long.

[Reent]

If i ever did an Ultimate run... i would have no clue how to keep Vela alive (are there enough scrolls of withdrawal?) and how to do it in the timeframe, but my build would be:

Chanter/Bloodmage, invis summoner - every 30 secs he would be visible for 1 sec (blood sacrifics into invis), nothing anyone can do to him, i have a run (no godchallenges but fights not ending) with one and the only reason i stopped the run was to restart the run with more might to speed the fights up (and i didn't activate the godchallenge...). Didn't even get to the good parts, simply lost my mind lvl 15 fighting stuff that should die fast (and i shouldn't fight in the first place... no exp no loot...) you can't mess the fights up - no need for no rest run, no need for anything but arkemyr's brilliant departure and ancient weapons (earlier its: you can't mess the fights up, just don't get stuck, the run with more might did all bounties but torkar  lvl 8-11, that character is lvl 18 just waiting for tomorrow to get arkemyr's grimoire and ancient weapons - he didn't use summons to fight and died quite some time to badly timed blood sacrifices, 19 starting might pairs badly with 3 starting con with bloodmage)

That would be the Ultimate boring run (may be the reason why i will never try Ultimate)

[Boeroer]

Why would you have to become visible every 30 secs? Wall of Draining doesn't break Arkemyr's Brilliant Depature but instead prolongs its duration. If you hit several enemies with it the duration will scale up long enough to end most battles without having to use Blood Sacrifice. You can also just retreat out of sight and send summons to the enemies. 

[Raven Darkholme]

If you really only want to fight with summons, which I wouldn't recommend, all you need to do is shoot vela in the face with a blunderbuss while having belt of Magran's chosen on, while you have no dot of any form like deep wounds from a rogue, until the belt spawns a fire blight.

Charm the blight, send your summons to the actual enemy, never get even close to enemy and they will only fight your summons.

If you really want to do it from invis just do as Boeroer says, use wall of draining, use briliant instead of blood sacrifice to get wall back whenever it runs out.

[Reent]

If i want to do it earlier than that... assassin slippers stop the invisibility after summoning once, but i stay untargetable until i use something affecting the enemy... maybe AOE spells will still work on me, but you shouldn't die to something like that...

so, after Port Maje you can simply get assassin slippers, rush strand and cheese everything... okay, that is the most boring way to win the game - BUT you win the game 

[Raven Darkholme]

edit: I can't read

Edited May 24, 2021 by Raven Darkholme

[Reent]

30 minutes ago, Raven Darkholme said:

There's different definitions for "boring".

Your definition of boring is everyone having used a similar strategy for the ultimate so far, be it using SoT/WoD or Strand, you know extening buff durations.

While I can't say your definition is entirely wrong I also don't think boring is the right word to use here, it is in the nature of how the Ultimate was designed, forcing vela on you etc.

Especially Strand has made the Ultimate a lot less one sided, before its "discovery" only priests and wizards beat the Ultimate after that we got an assassin and cipher/chanter to beat it and theoretically any class can do it now (with enough discipline even @Boeroerwill finish his SC Mage Slayer one day!!).

Now to me personally it would be much more boring to beat the game only with summons, because having to wait for a fight to finish without having an active part in it (except resummoning I guess) would be my own personal definition of boring, same goes for killing everything with endless dots like gouging, true lovers kiss etc.

 

At least strand opens up new possibilities, lets you think "how can I play a char in a completely new way" like max aoe ciphers or self confuse chars etc.

I get how using strand for a class like Assassin is overkill, but it was fun to watch at least for once as @Waski demonstrated.

no, i called the summoner that can't be touched the most boring run possible (but that would be my choice if i would do the ultimate), i can't think of a slower run (that's still able to do every fight), if you could do it with a single class chanter (i think Hauani O Whe would be too risky without endless chances with bloodmage) it would be fine, the dragon has enough AOE to kill stuff fast enough, weapons deal enough damage too, but if you don't get to that point without fighting (lvl 19 MC) its a real slow run summoning ogres again and again and again and again... not beeing able to do anything else

[Raven Darkholme]

1 minute ago, Reent said:

no, i called the summoner that can't be touched the most boring run possible (but that would be my choice if i would do the ultimate), i can't think of a slower run (that's still able to do every fight), if you could do it with a single class chanter (i think Hauani O Whe would be too risky without endless chances with bloodmage) it would be fine, the dragon has enough AOE to kill stuff fast enough, weapons deal enough damage too, but if you don't get to that point without fighting (lvl 19 MC) its a real slow run summoning ogres again and again and again and again... not beeing able to do anything else

Lol I'm blind then and edited my post.

[abot]

A new entry for the worth-prolonging items list, in case it is not common knowledge already, many thanks @jaggedjimmyjay82 for the hint during the streaming
Lover's Embrace dagger: Frenzy (25% action speed, -10 deflection, Strong, Fit for 15 sec) from Lover's Quarrel on female target enchant, get it by critting Vela (more safely with a shield equipped)

[Raven Darkholme]

7 minutes ago, abot said:

A new entry for the worth-prolonging items list, in case it is not common knowledge already, many thanks @jaggedjimmyjay82 for the hint during the streaming
Lover's Embrace dagger: Frenzy (25% action speed, -10 deflection, Strong, Fit for 15 sec) from Lover's Quarrel on female target enchant, get it by critting Vela (more safely with a shield equipped)

Why not just use frenzy from Amra with no downside?

[abot]

44 minutes ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Why not just use frenzy from Amra with no downside?

Oh, you are right, I forgot that, it's probably what I ended using on that ultimate run too but I did not remember to add it to the items list yet
[EDIT] uhm, no probably I used wahai poraga only in there

Amra battle axe with Tempered Fury enchantment, Frenzy without deflection penalty, you can get it from kills

does it work destroying barrels too or you need to trigger it from battle?
[EDIT2] yep, tested, it works killing barrels too
it's a great add on to the list anyway

P.S: if anybody has other items to add, please share!

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by abot

[Raven Darkholme]

I need to test later how the unique frenzies behave after unequipping and saving.

As far as i remember Amra Action speed buff is called Amra and not frenzy, so there might be some stacking cheese possible.

[Raven Darkholme]

Meh.

Frenzy is suppressing any source of frenzy, even if it is not named frenzy by using smth like Amra, unequipping quicksaving and reloading.

frenzy ward stacks with frenzy and so does bloodlust and i suppose any other action speed buff, however 0 attack time seems impossible since the action speed modifiers are multiplicative with the base so even on a slow 2h with .7 base 33% from 20 dex will only be -25%, frenzy will only be 20% etc.

I guess maxing dex would have the greatest effect and maybe get to .1 attack time with a fast weapon, but once again since the base speed will be lower the effect of the action speed will also be less.

(at least thats how I understand it i'm not exactly a math guy :P)

edit: 35 dex gets me to .3 with 2h and .2 with a dagger...

I could add nature's bounty for 25% (aka 20%) but I doubt it does anything, 2 separate 10% buffs (aka 9%....) do nothing at all, will test later.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Raven Darkholme

[Kaylon]

It's possible to stack Tempered Fury with Bolting Strikes and Captain's Banquet on top of DEX and reach 0.2s attack speed with a fast weapon.

[Raven Darkholme]

1 hour ago, Kaylon said:

It's possible to stack Tempered Fury with Bolting Strikes and Captain's Banquet on top of DEX and reach 0.2s attack speed with a fast weapon.

Ye 0.2 was the fastest I got too, shame.

[Kaylon]

51 minutes ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Ye 0.2 was the fastest I got too, shame.

Maybe it's possible to go even lower in combat, but I think it's already overkill.  

PS. I think it's possible to reach 350% lash from Conduit with a solo assassin (the last time I tried I missed a few buffs).

[Raven Darkholme]

Btw, while cheesing around with grimoire build I accidentally found out that doubleclick equipping slippers of the assassin gives you shadow form...

I somehow must have either always equipped it the traditional way or never realized this before.

This makes for much less hassle in having to find a barrel or enemy to kill.

[Kaylon]

40 minutes ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Btw, while cheesing around with grimoire build I accidentally found out that doubleclick equipping slippers of the assassin gives you shadow form...

I somehow must have either always equipped it the traditional way or never realized this before.

This makes for much less hassle in having to find a barrel or enemy to kill.

Maybe it's also possible to get Tempered Fury from Amra.