The Ultimate discussion thread Pt 2

[Boeroer]

Yes - as I said the base invocation "The Brideman" gives proper inspirations like "Set to their Purpose also does", but weirdly enough the upgrade "Each Kill fed his Fury" gives direct attribute bonuses (no "official" inspirations). 

I don't think it's a problem with the prolonging. For example Blood Storm and Wildstrike Frenzy seem to have no problem with prolonging inspirations/other effects on crit or kill. 

Imo somebody just made a mistake when implementing the ability. Just a guess though. Anyway this seems to be the reason why that ability stacks with inspirations. Like Ben Fidel's Neck (-10 to all defenses) stacks with afflictions. Maybe same underlying stacking mechanics. 

[abot]

I found another interesting one I was not aware of that you can easily prolong:

Wahai Poraga Counterattack	For 2.0 sec after launching attack, return 25% incoming Melee Damage to attacker as Raw Damage

Basically it may work like a permanent pain-link on yourself, could be great especially for classes playing with barring death door on and planning to get a lot of damage. I've not tested it in a fight yet but it seems to survive save/load cycles so it should work

 

[Boeroer]

You can easily prolong it with WoD (did a lot of tests with it when doing my mini-mod for the weapon) but I never tried if this persists after combat ends...  

[abot]

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

You can easily prolong it with WoD (did a lot of tests with it when doing my mini-mod for the weapon) but I never tried if this persists after combat ends...  

I triggered (hitting Vela) and prolonged it out of combat the usual way (swapping strand of favor/cabalist gambeson) so I think it should work also if triggered in standard combat

[Boeroer]

Right - makes perfect sense. You can attack any npc out of combat - and the effects always trigger no matter whether combat mode is active or not.  

[Raven Darkholme]

There is quite a few effects that can be triggered out of combat and will still end after combat, not saying it's the same for Counterattack cuz I haven't tested it, but for example it's what makes infinite deflection stacking with Gipon Prudensco less op, because you have to repeat it after every single fight.

[abot]

Wahai Poraga Counterattack seems to stay for infinity after several battles
I think I finally found a better/reliable strategy for the battle with the Beast of Winter: using the spider's empress mandibles you get from Belranga on Vela petrifies her long enough to be able to jump with the bounding boots and have enough time to end the conversation/start the battle before Vela manages to run there, and without Vela around the fight is much easier, works better than a scroll of binding web
[EDIT] a simpler alternative is to start the conversation using the shadow form from the assassin boots, this way you don't go out of stealth when out of dialogue and you can manage to sneak with Vela to the left of the screen and better control the battle. But, as we are cheating anyway, better to keep Vela completely out of the battlefield (she stays at the other side of the chasm) using the mandibles+bounding boots

What I noticed is not staying for me is the Entropy Shield from the Chromoprismatic Quarterstaff, even after save/load it always disappears as soon as I have no more the staff equipped, while the Elemental Induction stays. If I keep the staff equipped I think Entropy Shield could be reset/restarted first time you are hit, so meh

Edited July 21, 2021 by abot

[Raven Darkholme]

8 hours ago, abot said:

Wahai Poraga Counterattack seems to stay for infinity after several battles
I think I finally found a better/reliable strategy for the battle with the Beast of Winter: using the spider's empress mandibles you get from Belranga on Vela petrifies her long enough to be able to jump with the bounding boots and have enough time to end the conversation/start the battle before Vela manages to run there, and without Vela around the fight is much easier, works better than a scroll of binding web
[EDIT] a simpler alternative is to start the conversation using the shadow form from the assassin boots, this way you don't go out of stealth when out of dialogue and you can manage to sneak with Vela to the left of the screen and better control the battle. But, as we are cheating anyway, better to keep Vela completely out of the battlefield (she stays at the other side of the chasm) using the mandibles+bounding boots

What I noticed is not staying for me is the Entropy Shield from the Chromoprismatic Quarterstaff, even after save/load it always disappears as soon as I have no more the staff equipped, while the Elemental Induction stays. If I keep the staff equipped I think Entropy Shield could be reset/restarted first time you are hit, so meh

You probably know this, but if you do the slippers cheese for conversation started fights, you can use a trap, then immediately go to your inventory and do slippers cheese again, this way you can put traps right in enemies faces without ever getting detected.

(placing the trap breaks stealth but the monster triggering it doesn't, so as long as your game isn't on fast mode and you immediately press invent button the enemy will never detect you)

This makes immobilizing vela much easier, and can to an extent also be used for fights that don't have a dialogue to start.

[Theosupus]

I know this is a necro but:
ring of clenched muscle's "test subject" buffs stack and are extendable (+5 to some stats and a few other perks)

I know it says random tier one buff but it's actually called "test subject" and i got 3 of them on just messing around and the strand of favor did extend them.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Theosupus

[thelee]

On 7/19/2021 at 8:58 AM, thelee said:

wow if this is consistent, this significantly boosts the utility of that chant

thanks to @Theosupus for poking this thread, because I forgot where I read that the +5 might/con/dex from the chanter invocation stacks, and this helped me find it AND give me a useful hypothesis.

 

anyway, i don't know what @abot was doing - I have a run going on right now where I'm using this invocation a lot and it definitely does not stack :(. Not with inspirations (e.g. barbarian frenzy), not with items (e.g. Taru-Taru Chew), not with other direct stat adjustments from active effects (e.g. Devotions for the Faithful). (Though not a huge loss; just getting an additional +5 constitution and +10s to duration on kill turns out to be pretty handy for a 3-chant invocation. But it does make the fact that they cease to be actual inspirations once you upgrade more of a lame bug, at least if they stacked you could have had that.)

I wonder if abot was getting inspirations from a source like theosupus mentions (ring of clenched muscle's inspirations)? Similarly, Least Unstable Coil will also grant inspirations that stack with other sources. Inspirations from items are weird.

Edited October 14, 2021 by thelee

[abot]

Dunno, with my build Each Kill Fed His Fury is one of the most reliable things to prolong, I just prolong it once with strand of favor+gambeson and once it reaches long duration it stays forever/it is never dispelled I even respec after getting it once (differently from the other inspiration buffs that sometimes are canceled and need reapplying the least unstable coil empower), it stacks with any inspiration from the least unstable coil

I will give the ring of clenched muscle another try, last time it did not stack for me, but so far I've only managed to stack +5 from invocation, + 5 from inspiration max points per stat so maybe if you already have the +5 from Each Kill and the +5 tier 3 from the coil the ring does not work

[EDIT] I recently realized a thing for this build that could be useful also for other builds with no easy ways to control Vela before starting a fight: you can use the stun from Modwyr on her out of fight, it should get you enough time and as it is out of fight it will not be consumed. It is also handy as secondary weapon to trigger scordeo's edge blade cascade without damaging the sabre if, like this build, you have no weapon abilities


[EDIT2] items list updated below as previous one is no more editable

useful items primarily for no priest subclass/no pure wizard builds using item switching to prolong beneficial effect duration out of combat
( strand of favor, cabalist's gambeson arcane extension, ooblit pet...), please add to the list if you find relevant missing things.

Note: I've just discovered so far the faster way to prolong the effects in my experience:  if you have both strand of favor and cabalist's gambeson, equip both of them, than place an armor and a necklace in player inventory, click e.g. the necklace, hover on the armor (or vice-versa), double click; this way one double click will swap both necklace and armor slots, doubling the swap speed

Note: a way to trigger watcher blooded state out of combat is using double necklace of fireballs on self, just pay attention when Vela is moving around (you can have double necklace of fireballs from dunnage+neketaka vendors so you can use it soon with cabalist's gambeson from arkemyr's vault). You can use also double Missile Gloves (Crookspur + Deck of Many Things vendors), but those may come later depending on your path

any unguent can be easily prolonged for +2 skill
Arcanist's Balm (+2 Alchemy, +2 Arcana, +2 Explosives)
Blessed Incense (+2 History, +2 Insight, +2 Metaphysics, +2 Religion)
Oil of Allure (+2 Bluff, +2 Diplomacy, +2 Intimidate, +2 Streetwise)
Thief's Putty (+2 Mechanics, +2 Sleight of Hand, +2 Stealth)
Unguent of Animalism (+2 Athletics, +2 Survival)

Antidote Immunity to Poison attacks for 30 sec

Not sure drugs are worth, anyway apply the drug, prolong a little bit, save, reload.
Maybe be sure to apply Deadeye LAST as it seems to be the one giving problems to the rest.

1 Mouth Char (-5% Damage taken, +15% Damage with weapons for 180 sec)
2 Coral Snuff (+10% Action Speed, +5 Deflection, +5 Reflex for 180 sec)
3 Ripple Sponge (+3 Perception, Resolve, and Intellect for 180 sec)
4 Svef (+3 Perception, -25% Hostile effect duration, Resistance to Intellect, Perception, and Resolve afflictions for 180 sec)
5 Whiteleaf (Concentration, +10 Will, +1 Health restored per 3 sec for 180 sec)
6 Taru Turu Chew (+3 Constitution, Might, and Dexterity for 180 sec)
7 Deadeye (+5 Accuracy, 15% chance to Interrupt on scoring Hit for 180 sec)

or?

1 Coral Snuff (+10% Action Speed, +5 Deflection, +5 Reflex for 180 sec)
2 Mouth Char (-5% Damage taken, +15% Damage with weapons for 180 sec)
3 Ripple Sponge (+3 Perception, Resolve, and Intellect for 180 sec)
4 Svef (+3 Perception, -25% Hostile effect duration, Resistance to Intellect, Perception, and Resolve afflictions for 180 sec)
5 Whiteleaf (Concentration, +10 Will, +1 Health restored per 3 sec for 180 sec)
6 Taru Turu Chew (+3 Constitution, Might, and Dexterity for 180 sec)
7 Deadeye (+5 Accuracy, 15% chance to Interrupt on scoring Hit for 180 sec)

I think when trying the ultimate to submit it to the developers, is better not to spam save, reload (there is a chance it could be not accepted), so maybe better to apply 1 drug at a time/once before exiting the game session

unstable soul essence bomb (+6 Health Restored per 6.0 sec for 12.0 sec)

Amra battle axe with Tempered Fury enchantment, Frenzy without deflection penalty, 25% chance on kill. triggers with barrels, ranger pet or blight from magran's favor belt

devil of caroc breastplate devil's due +2 health restored per 3.0 sec for 6.0 sec on critical hit with weapons (hit vela)

Lover's Embrace dagger: Frenzy (25% action speed, -10 deflection, Strong, Fit for 15 sec) from Lover's Quarrel on female target enchant, get it by critting Vela (more safely with a shield equipped)
(Probably not worth as not stacking with Amra tempered fury)

scordeo's trophy opening barrage (unlimited stacking -5% recovery time), you can get very good recovery time just with this one before getting scordeo's edge

resounding call call to arms (Destroying a destructible grants tenacious 12.0 sec), not super easy to prolong but doable and definitely great to have

wahai poraga at blades reach -20% Melee Damage Received for 2.0 sec on launching attack (hit vela)

The Maker's Own Power belt reforge the flesh 10hp/3sec -85% dmg, paralyze can be worked around (blade cascade on, trigger reforge and extend it, if you knocked yourself out you will stand up and won't be paralyzed, you may still need to switch weapon, save,  reload and switch weapon again to get rid of paralyze)

necklace of the harvest moon yearly reap -5% Recovery Time for 6.0 sec on crit), hit vela with blunderbuss

Slippers of the Assassin Boots Shadow Form (invisible on kill, trigger it killing barrels. Reported working (thanks Raven Darkholme) with double clicking slippers from player inventory too, but so far not working this way for Kaylon and me so it may be related to specific build/setup)
[EDIT] ok so I managed to get it working after save/reload: on reload you look transparent but the Shadow Form is no more working until you equip the boots again but you need to prolong it from scratch in my experience so it may be a little tedious but easy to use
Tip: use them to steal the Crucible Token from Humaire as soon as you enter the Toamowhai Temple, this way you can recharge it after getting another one from her, gives Kazuwari's Call, +15% damage done to/-15% damage received from a single target in a fight

bardatto's luxury death and taxes: hardy on unconscious ally, not hard to trigger on combat and can be prolonged out of combat as it lasts long

scordeo's edge adaptive (+2 Accuracy with all weapons for 30.0 sec on scoring Hit, stacks 10 times, easy to prolong as long lasting, stacks with blade cascade/highwayman)

scordeo's edge blade cascade (ignore recovery for 5.0 sec on scoring hit, use it on vela)

Scordeo's Edge Highwayman (20acc with ranged weapons)

griffin's blade loyal companion: steadfast on blooded, not so easy to prolong permanently (gets overriden by spells giving the same effect) but useful as alternative to no pity for the lost watcher ability

least unstable coil Empowered Being (all lvl3 inspirations, however like all inspirations buffs if you're hit by afflictions your inspirations will degrade if you're not immune from afflictions. if you are immune it will not be overwritten unless you use it again. Also if you unequip, save, reload the buff will be saved with a different name and no more overwritten but it may weaken some effects of the inspirations like robust)

Less/Least Unstable Coil Spirit Siphon (15% action speed, stacks with Tempered Fury from Amra and Bolting Strikes from Lord Darryn's Voulge)

protective eothasian charm darkest before dawn (+5 health per 3.0 sec over 12 sec, damage reduced by -25% for 12 sec on near death), risky but good to prolong, you need to sleep once to recharge it though)

Lord Darryn's Voulge Bolting Strikes (10% chance on hit to get Quick for 10.0 sec, 15% Damage dealt as Shock with weapons for 10.0 sec)

Nature's Embrace: groves King -> barkskin (+5 pierce, burn, shock AC for 15s)

chromoprismatic quarterstaff elemental induction (+15% Damage for 10.0 sec when hit with Acid / Fire / Frost / Electricity attacks), e.g. use necklace of fireballs to trigger
chromoprismatic entropy shield (-1% damage x 10 sec max 5 stack, increases with metaphisic to about 10-12% not worth much reduced to 5% after save/reload but better than nothing)

robe of the Weyc Muse of Mystery: After Empowering an invocation, chanter phrases elapse 50% faster for 12.0 sec, that's a new phrase every 2 sec for a troubadour (can be prolonged)

Shea's War Staff Channeled Strike (15% hit to crit with melee attacks)

weyc's wand attuned channel (after empowering an ability, gain +3 Power Level for 20 sec, confirmed)

serpent crown serpent's strike +10 Accuracy (maybe also -25% Recovery Time?) for 15s when critically hit

Whispers from the Depths Grasping Mysteries: 30% chance on scoring Kill to gain Acute (+5 Intellect, +1 All Power Levels) for 8.0 sec

First Blood from Beza's Toothed Blade : + 10% speed for 10s on scoring hit against > 75% health target (hit Vela) - does not stack with frenzy
 

Edited October 15, 2021 by abot

[thelee]

29 minutes ago, abot said:

it stacks with any inspiration from the least unstable coil

yeah this is the ticket. inspirations from least unstable coil are considered "passive" and will stack with anything else, even other identical inspirations.

[Boeroer]

Yeah, check out Bardatto's Luxury with its CON-inspiration. 

 

[Constentin Lévine]

• As a SC priest, you can get infinite least unstable coil triggering effect  at level 16 because of Spark the Souls of the Righteous. The ability is Combat only so I don't know if you can keep this out of battle (I never used the Berath challenge ),well you can extend the duration of the inspirations however.  The Ultimate challenge suffer of the lack of immunity items to protect them (inspirations) so if the spell stay out of combat as benefecial effect, you could eventually restore any inspiration wich was counter by affliction (and then remove affliction periodically) in contact of hostile guy. Dont know if that is useful for the challenge.

[dgray62]

6 hours ago, Constentin Lévine said:

• As a SC priest, you can get infinite least unstable coil triggering effect  at level 16 because of Spark the Souls of the Righteous. The ability is Combat only so I don't know if you can keep this out of battle (I never used the Berath challenge ),well you can extend the duration of the inspirations however.  The Ultimate challenge suffer of the lack of immunity items to protect them (inspirations) so if the spell stay out of combat as benefecial effect, you could eventually restore any inspiration wich was counter by affliction (and then remove affliction periodically) in contact of hostile guy. Dont know if that is useful for the challenge.

So you empower Spark the Souls of the Righteous with the coil equipped, and you'll get inspirations every time the spell process? That's really interesting, thanks!

[Constentin Lévine]

Yes, and you can prolonge the process because the spell is considered like a beneficial effect. I m going to test some thinks : if effect is cleared when combat is over, and if other party members who are affected will proc inspiration on the priest when the shock trigger. Not useful for soloing with vela but like you said it is interesting!

 

Edit : The effect is cleared when the fight is over, so it is not a great think for the ultimate..

Edit 2 : Even out of enemies range, the spell proc periodically inspirations, so a skaen priest will be able to buff itself like usual Ultimate way with tiers 3 inspirations.

Note that with a regular party the priest dont need to cast the spell into itself to have the least unstable coil triggering effect. Every 3sec the ability trigger, and independently of enemies hurted or who benefit from the aura, the priest will be granted of inspirations!

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Constentin Lévine

[abot]

Cheers to all ultimaters!
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1204462312?t=12h55m30s

[Waski]

5 hours ago, abot said:

Cheers to all ultimaters!
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1204462312?t=12h55m30s

man of his words

 

[thelee]

lol i'm so used to the default hud positioning that pale shelter's UI made my eyes bleed.

 

troubadour/psion! must've been a trip

[dgray62]

How do you proc least unstable coil out of combat so as to be able to extend the inspirations with SoF? Does it proc if you cast an empowered spell like Great Maelstrom or Storm of Holy Fire over a bunch of barrels or hirelings?

[abot]

4 hours ago, dgray62 said:

How do you proc least unstable coil out of combat so as to be able to extend the inspirations with SoF? Does it proc if you cast an empowered spell like Great Maelstrom or Storm of Holy Fire over a bunch of barrels or hirelings?

the easier to find target is a single destructible (barrel, sigil, the first encounter in kazuwari arena is the ideal place to get the inspirations back...) if your spell can be single target (e.g. chanter Her Revenge Swept Across the Land, but you need brilliant to have her revenge available out of combat, at least with a multiclass), if you have to use a bigger area spell (I am sure storm of holy fire works, I don't remember about great maelstrom) I guess just pay more attention to not harm alive things around.

[dgray62]

Thanks! I didn't realize that brilliant could enable casting Her Revenge out of combat. I've been able to do so occasionally for seemingly random reasons, but I suppose I must have had brilliant enabled that somehow persisted after combat ended.

[abot]

one thing I discovered recently that could be of use to chanter/cipher or similar builds: 
if you have A Whale of a Wand equipped, you can fast cast out of combat Psychovampiric Shield on Vela with 10 5 % chance to charm her, much easier to trigger than usual 1% from other items. If you are far enough from enemies, charming her is safe, she stays there (and keeps staying there, not following you any more while in the level cell!), battle music starts, you can now chant/summon, etc you get the idea from here...
[EDIT] percent fixed, they nerfed it, see below, still great to have if you have space between enemies
[EDIT2] another thing I realized recently. you already know when you have brilliant and the least unstable coil you can target out of fight a destructible with empowered Her Revenge Swept Across the Land and get up to 6 level 3 inspirations at once, but if you have no target you can still use any empowered invocation to get one level 3 inspiration, so if you are lacking a couple of inspirations and you have the Sasha's scimitar you can spam empowered her revenge with no target out of fight and get back the missing level 3 inspiration in a few tries

Edited December 20, 2021 by abot

[Constentin Lévine]

56 minutes ago, abot said:

one thing I discovered recently that could be of use to chanter/cipher or similar builds: 
if you have A Whale of a Wand equipped, you can fast cast out of combat Psychovampiric Shield on Vela with 10% chance to charm her, much easier to trigger than usual 1% from other items. If you are far enough from enemies, charming her is safe, she stays there (and keeps staying there, not following you any more while in the level cell!), battle music starts, you can now chant/summon, etc you get the idea from here...

I think it is 5% chance, the wiki have the pre-1.1 description of the weapon!

[abot]

Ah yes, sorry, checked without Wael, it is 5% also from description. Still very useful/easier to trigger though, e.g. I just cleaned the Forgotten Sanctum Upper Bowels with Vela always staying near the staircase at the start