[MECHANICS] Various Testing

[Avaritica]

Contrary to the description, damage reduction applied by Futility last 35 seconds. Action speed duration is correct though.

[thelee]

27 minutes ago, Avaritica said:

Contrary to the description, damage reduction applied by Futility last 35 seconds. Action speed duration is correct though.

does it stack at all? 2% sounds puny even if it lasts a while

[Avaritica]

24 minutes ago, thelee said:

does it stack at all? 2% sounds puny even if it lasts a while

Both effects can stack 5 times.

The duration discrepancy is probably an oversight left over from patch. From what i see, it got a duration nerf on patch 1.1 from 35s to 15s but devs probably missed the second effect.(or maybe second effect was added later ?)

Edited November 24, 2021 by Avaritica

[Boeroer]

Given how stacking hostile effect from items work I suspect you can lift that to 10 stacks with the help of an Essential/Substancial Phantom or Watery Double and maybe even to 15 stacks with The Dichotomous Soul? I mean in theory - if the enemy attacks everybody who's wearing (copies) of Sisyfo's Stone quickly enough.  

[Elric Galad]

3 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Given how stacking hostile effect from items work I suspect you can lift that to 10 stacks with the help of an Essential/Substancial Phantom or Watery Double and maybe even to 15 stacks with The Dichotomous Soul? I mean in theory - if the enemy attacks everybody who's wearing (copies) of Sisyfo's Stone quickly enough.  

Do copies also copy your accessories ? For some reasons, I thought it was only Armor and Weapons (except for Dichotomous case for the later)

[Boeroer]

Sure. For example you can have fun with stuff like Necklace of Unlocked Possibilities which will give your phantom a random unique weapon every time you summon it.  

I didn't try it on Dichotomous Soul though... but with Watery Double and Phantoms accessories work 100%. I'm not using Dichotomous Soul much so I'm not 100% sure there.

Edit: just checked: also works with Dichotomous Soul.  In case of the Necklace of Unlocked Possib. they each receive a different unique weapon. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Futility is also weird because it is listed under benefical effects on the enemy. You can use it to suck duration from enemies with Wall of Draining (as you can do with Cap of the Laughingstock). And I guess it can't be suppressed by Suppress Affliction then...?

Stacking Action Speed penalties isn't too great though. I stacked 10 of Ball and Chain's Crushing Yoke and 10 of Futility on a Tiger and he was slower but not THAT slow...

Edited November 24, 2021 by Boeroer

[hansvedic]

44 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Given how stacking hostile effect from items work I suspect you can lift that to 10 stacks with the help of an Essential/Substancial Phantom or Watery Double and maybe even to 15 stacks with The Dichotomous Soul? I mean in theory - if the enemy attacks everybody who's wearing (copies) of Sisyfo's Stone quickly enough.  

So Dichotomous Souls get accessories of the user? Interesting. Do they also get the armor of the user? I presume they don’t get the weapons of the user.

[Avaritica]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Futility is also weird because it is listed under benefical effects on the enemy.

Isn't that just a bug/oversight ?

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, hansvedic said:

So Dichotomous Souls get accessories of the user? Interesting. Do they also get the armor of the user? I presume they don’t get the weapons of the user.

They work like a Phantom - except they don't get your weapon(s) but instead flaming/freezing fists.

One fun armor to use with them is Kahako Nihi - because it gives a +10% piercing lash for unarmed attacks. The Dichotomous Soul summons do fire/frost damage, but their attacks are considered "real" unarmed it seems (unlike Concelhaut's Draining Touch or Woedica's Spiritual Weapons) - so they get the lash.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

53 minutes ago, Avaritica said:

Isn't that just a bug/oversight ?

Most likely

[Kaylon]

Does the Ring of Reset work with the Dichotomous Soul? Also having Harmony equipped does trigger Lover's Bond between you/Dichotomous Soul?

[Boeroer]

26 minutes ago, Kaylon said:

Does the Ring of Reset work with the Dichotomous Soul?

No. Summons don't really get knocked out but get removed from combat on 0 health -> no revival.
 

 

27 minutes ago, Kaylon said:

Also having Harmony equipped does trigger Lover's Bond between you/Dichotomous Soul?

I don't fully understand the question.

I haven't used this ring in a long time - but iirc it's an active 1/rest ability that you can cast on an ally -> you and the ally become immune to intellect afflictions.

Phantoms/Dichotomous Soul summons aren't controllable - so you can't make use of active abilities they might get from items. And they won't use them themselves.

You can cast Lover's Bond on a summon - but that's not that useful since you would cast an effect without duration (until end of combat) on a summon which has limited duration. 

[Kaylon]

15 hours ago, Boeroer said:

 

I don't fully understand the question.

I haven't used this ring in a long time - but iirc it's an active 1/rest ability that you can cast on an ally -> you and the ally become immune to intellect afflictions.

Phantoms/Dichotomous Soul summons aren't controllable - so you can't make use of active abilities they might get from items. And they won't use them themselves.

You can cast Lover's Bond on a summon - but that's not that useful since you would cast an effect without duration (until end of combat) on a summon which has limited duration. 

It has two abilities - one passive and one active. The passive one gives +1Res to both "lovers" when close enough to each other (I suppose it works also for a trio). The active one gives intellect immunity to the "lovers" until the end of combat - the summons can't benefit too much, but if you can keep it yourself it's a nice option to have. The wiki doesn't say if it's /rest, but if it's the case then it has limited use, indeed.

[Boeroer]

14 minutes ago, Kaylon said:

It has two abilities - one passive and one active. The passive one gives +1Res to both "lovers" when close enough to each other (I suppose it works also for a trio). The active one gives intellect immunity to the "lovers" until the end of combat - the summons can't benefit too much, but if you can keep it yourself it's a nice option to have. The wiki doesn't say if it's /rest, but if it's the case then it has limited use, indeed.

Ah, got it. I can try a bit later and see how it goes. 

Edit: so... I tetsted it and it's pretty wild: 

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

• the two Rings are identical (also in terms of game objects) - so it's basically one Ring with two instances.
• It has one enchantment named "Commitment1" that simply gives +1 RES to the wearer at all times, no conditions.
• Then it has a second enchantment called Commitment2 as well that can give the wearer(s) +1 RES on top.
  • BUT it only works if you first cast Lover's Bond (1/rest) on ANYBODY in the party. It doesn't have to be the other ring bearer. If you cast Lover's Bond on any party member then the two ring bearers can profit from the additional +1 RES, making it +2 RES for them overall. The Receiver of Lover's Bond doesn't get the Commitment2 bonus.
  • non-controllable summons can't receive Lover's Bond - controllable summons can though. If they wear the ring they can get the +1 RES from Commitment2 though - they just have to stand near the caster of Lover's Bond. 
  • the ring bearer who cast Lover's Bond has to stand near the party member onto he cast it - in order to get the bonus I mean. The second ring bearer (who didn't cast anything) has to stand near the first ring bearer to get the bonus (NOT the party member who received Lover's Bond).
  • It also works if you only have one ring: cast Lover's Bond onto any party member and stand near them and you get it. 
  • If one ring bearer casts Lover's Bond onto the other ring bearer then it's all more straightforward of course.

This makes it not usable for solo if you don't have controllable summons or an animal companion - since you can't cast Lover's Embrace on non-controllable units to unlock the bonus. If you have controllable summons or an animal companion it can work. Since you can find two of those rings you can stack them in the stash to reload the 1/rest use. That way you could get +2 RES for every fight and the INT immunity of course - which is great imo.  

Solo without AC and/or controllable summons: nop way as far as I can tell. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Boeroer

[hansvedic]

On 11/24/2021 at 8:05 AM, Boeroer said:

They work like a Phantom - except they don't get your weapon(s) but instead flaming/freezing fists.

One fun armor to use with them is Kahako Nihi - because it gives a +10% piercing lash for unarmed attacks. The Dichotomous Soul summons do fire/frost damage, but their attacks are considered "real" unarmed it seems (unlike Concelhaut's Draining Touch or Woedica's Spiritual Weapons) - so they get the lash.

Hrmm... since it seems that the souls get the same version of the armor that the user is wearing (upgrades and all), wouldn't it be more interesting to equip Effigy's Husk, Least Unstable Coil, and Cape of the Falling Star/Mantle of the Seven Bolts on a monk or monk multiclass (maybe The Fate Testarossa build?) and spam dichotomous souls as suicide bombers for all the "on knockout/unconscious" damage? Combined with Brilliant from a cipher or potentially from empowering an ability, as well as Dance of Death, this might be an interesting combo...

EDIT: I suppose this depends on all of these “on-death” effects working together. I can try and test this.

Edited November 25, 2021 by hansvedic

[Constentin Lévine]

Do you know the Glacierbane enchantment Harder than ice, giving more 1pen (stack to 3), has no limit duration? Out of combat, in 3 ticks of Chillfog, your pen is to 15 when upgraded to Legendary, until rest. But just for the Glacierbane in main hand ; if you dualwiel Glacerbane, you have to switch the second in offhand to the main hand to have +3pen for each. (I try that to have +6pen but no) The pen bonus work only for Glacierbane.

Furthermore Chillfog can proc Brilliant from Shroud of Phantasm, for soloing I mean.

[Not So Clever Hound]

On 11/7/2021 at 9:06 PM, NotDumbEnough said:

The shrine on the same island as Neketaka seems to be different than the ones near Crookspur and Poko Kahara. This shrine doesn't eat up all your other resting bonuses when you use it, so it's a free +2 constitution on top of whatever else you already had. Seems to stack with resting bonuses, prostitute bonuses, the pool in Outcasts' Respite.

Weird, I tested this and it doesn't work with me. I'm using CP but not BPM and @Noqn no forced rest mod.

[Constentin Lévine]

I realise, like for the Cap of the Laughingstock, the will debuff aroma from the Keeper of the Flame is considered to Beneficial effect for ennemies, with obviously no limit duration. It is interesting for Wall of Draining.

[NotDumbEnough]

12 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Weird, I tested this and it doesn't work with me. I'm using CP but not BPM and @Noqn no forced rest mod.

Think it happens if you get confronted in the text event.

[Not So Clever Hound]

1 hour ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Think it happens if you get confronted in the text event.

Ah you are right. Need to try a few times to get the scripted event. However, you lose Rikuhu's Blessing (+2 RES) so you have to choose one or the other. They seem to be mutually exclusive blessings.

[Testlum]

Losing Health doesn't appear to be the same as being Damaged. Tested this by changing The Shield Cracks to affect allies, then casting it on a party member with DAoM active.

[Boeroer]

I think there's a distinction between "being damaged by a hit roll" and "being damaged" in general. Also stuff like Dance of Death doesn't stop from self damage or DoT ticks - only when damaged via a sucessful hit roll. 

[Not So Clever Hound]

1 hour ago, Testlum said:

Losing Health doesn't appear to be the same as being Damaged.

I think this is also why Unbending doesn't proc from things like Berserker frenzy, DAoM etc. it only procs from incoming attack damage. But I don't think it's about having a hit roll or not, because AFAIK Thrust of Tattered Veil, Minor Missiles or a Grub's Crush attack will trigger Unbending and they're unerring - they don't have a roll.