The Ultimate discussion thread

[Wotcha]

Also, if you're already burning time sailing around for explore xp, it might be worth investigating how many Sanza quests you can rack up without (or with minimal) fighting.  You don't ever need to actually complete the dungeons to get island naming credit, you can just hop in and out, name the island, and then make it back to Sanza to get XP and payment.  Might have other location fights/skill-checks that you need to pass to GET to the dungeon.

[Wotcha]

Furthermore, the giant grub fight is pretty cheeseable.  If you can survive clearing out the little grub adds, you can whittle the big grub down in perfect safety by sitting out of its range and plinking away with an arquebus or whatever.  Don't know if that's common knowledge on the forum.

[thelee]

13 minutes ago, Wotcha said:

Stupid question, but are you considering the exploration XP for sailing around the map?  You can get a pretty solid whack of XP particularly in the endgame stuff on the north end, without fighting anybody.  It does cost sailing time though, and I don't know how hazardous it is to do with Ondra challenge.  But particularly if that time is otherwise going to waste if your worry about act timer clipping is valid, you might be losing the time no matter what you do, might as well burn it to get some no-combat XP.

My game exploration lately hasn't been for The Ultimate (I have only so much free time!), but I was able to pretty easily get to 16 solo, via steath and exploration xp.  Although that includes Ashen Maw, which I did NOT fight the dragon in, because I'm not on an Ultimate run and don't have to.

i have not considered it, but the idea of burning up any potential "wasted" time on exploration xp is a not bad idea, though in practice the XP is not huge. (though preferable to trying to roll the dice with some ship combat).

the problem is that even with stormwind sails on my ship, it takes days to traverse a small part of the map, and I'm trying to be conservative with how much time I'm using because I haven't mapped out act iv yet and frankly a lot of the sailing targets are really far away (nemnok and BoW are pretty much on opposite ends of the map). if i can nab them while going to those points, that would be something, but sailing really has to be "productive" in every way, and not just for a handful of extra experience.

[thelee]

10 minutes ago, Wotcha said:

Furthermore, the giant grub fight is pretty cheeseable.  If you can survive clearing out the little grub adds, you can whittle the big grub down in perfect safety by sitting out of its range and plinking away with an arquebus or whatever.  Don't know if that's common knowledge on the forum.

boy that's good to know. i was planning on just stealthing it to complete cornett's call and come back later, i didn't realize the longer ranged weapons could outrange the giant cave grub. i think at level 14 the little grub adds should be no problem. i forget - does the appearance of the cave grub adds get triggered by an ability? i was planning on solo-ing fire dragon by just spam-mule kicking it which will prevent it from bringing in oozes.

killing the giant cave grub should also help by being a good burst of XP just from the bestiary bonus (i wonder if the ultimate provides any XP for accomplishing objectives?)

Edited June 6, 2019 by thelee

[Wotcha]

5 minutes ago, thelee said:

boy that's good to know. i was planning on just stealthing it to complete cornett's call and come back later, i didn't realize the longer ranged weapons could outrange the giant cave grub. i think at level 14 the little grub adds should be no problem. i forget - does the appearance of the cave grub adds get triggered by an ability? i was planning on solo-ing fire dragon by just spam-mule kicking it which will prevent it from bringing in oozes.

killing the giant cave grub should also help by being a good burst of XP just from the bestiary bonus (i wonder if the ultimate provides any XP for accomplishing objectives?)

I seem to recall that you're even good with 8m weapons if you're very careful about where you stand.  Might want to test that first.  It's got a ton of AR, but I think it's weaker against slash, so choose your weapons accordingly if you're worrying about weapon degradation due to Abydon (war bow would probably be best choice if it's slash you need to beat, and you'd want to have bow proficiency or another source for +2 pen).  I'm speaking from a position of ignorance regarding the God Challenges, because I've never had the patience to deal with them.  I don't know how fast the degradation happens, and whether it would be a material concern for a fight of this length.

There are two or three regular grubs which aggro in the fight, which can be pulled out of the room and killed safely.  I think you might also wind up with a small number of grublings spawning from the grub nests too, but I think that the grub nests only spawn grubs if you get closer to them, so if you properly hang back at the entrance you never have to deal with them (or perhaps just one or two from the initial start of the fight).  Worst case, it might be worth testing to see if you can stand somewhere safe in the room and kill the grub nests from range. 

 

[Enoch]

22 minutes ago, Wotcha said:

I seem to recall that you're even good with 8m weapons if you're very careful about where you stand.  Might want to test that first.  It's got a ton of AR, but I think it's weaker against slash, so choose your weapons accordingly if you're worrying about weapon degradation due to Abydon (war bow would probably be best choice if it's slash you need to beat, and you'd want to have bow proficiency or another source for +2 pen).  I'm speaking from a position of ignorance regarding the God Challenges, because I've never had the patience to deal with them.  I don't know how fast the degradation happens, and whether it would be a material concern for a fight of this length.

There are two or three regular grubs which aggro in the fight, which can be pulled out of the room and killed safely.  I think you might also wind up with a small number of grublings spawning from the grub nests too, but I think that the grub nests only spawn grubs if you get closer to them, so if you properly hang back at the entrance you never have to deal with them (or perhaps just one or two from the initial start of the fight).  Worst case, it might be worth testing to see if you can stand somewhere safe in the room and kill the grub nests from range. 

 

IIRC, it is possible to break the grub nests from stealth without aggro'ing the big 'un.  But, aside from those, I think mama does have a "call more helpers" ability. 
 

Also, given its susceptibility to INT afflictions, a solo player may be able to Charm the big one such that it eliminates the extra grubs for you, before plinking it down from range.   (Perhaps a Confusion scroll?)

Edited June 6, 2019 by Enoch

[thelee]

 

10 minutes ago, Wotcha said:

I seem to recall that you're even good with 8m weapons if you're very careful about where you stand.  Might want to test that first.

ha, no worry about that, i'm testing everything. even trivial run-around-for-fetch quests part i rehearse a minimum of two times (one for pathing, one for dress-rehearsal) to make sure there's absolutely no mistake about even hitting the wrong dialogue option. super tedious, but after an early attempt where i did the Upoho Wharo Woods on Maje Island and hit the wrong option and instead of getting Wise Teeth Necklace I entered a fight that was rapidly fatal, I'm making sure everything is pre-planned and well-known.

it does mean RNG can throw me off a bit (rain actually briefly messed me up, you can see at video below at 15:56, from the video description "a random bit of RNG hit this real run (versus the practice runs) - it rained! Normally I never pay attention to weather, but it meant that when I was trying to rob the shield off the rack in Sacred Stairs, instead of just the one guard who I could barely sneak past, it was an entire crowd. Yikes! I waited a bit to see if the rain would clear, but ended up burning a Sparkcrackers to clear the area. I made a note in my quest pathing journal to buy a replacement Sparkcracker later.")

 

on the other hand, it also does mean that I have a precision with my pathing that I can tell if something is slightly off. in video below (at 2:16) as soon as I saw the slaver ship, I knew it was a little bit closer than my practice run and thus outside my "Safe to enter dunnage" range, so I had to burn some time to let it go away.

 

 

[baldurs_gate_2]

5 hours ago, Wotcha said:

Also, if you're already burning time sailing around for explore xp, it might be worth investigating how many Sanza quests you can rack up without (or with minimal) fighting.  You don't ever need to actually complete the dungeons to get island naming credit, you can just hop in and out, name the island, and then make it back to Sanza to get XP and payment.  Might have other location fights/skill-checks that you need to pass to GET to the dungeon.

Allready mentioned that with the explore xp and if you do the traps in drowned barrows, you can get even more (i think 11 mechanic is enough). The traps at the cloak are tricky to reach with the leap boots and you have to waste time with resting, so i don't recommend them in an ultimate attempt. But with all that, deadlight, dunnage, explore bonus and traps, you can reach level 10 b4 you enter neketaka.

[Waski]

There is over 3k in traps  if I remember correctly at sandswept ruins. 

edit. maybe it will help 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Waski

[Decadency]

Well I did some bounties and explored some Islands. 40% left for level 16. I'm Blood Mage/Skaen. I hope I didn't waste too much time... it's day 35.

[Yougottawanna]

I'm curious to see the stat spreads people are using for their attempts, can anyone share?

[thelee]

"stat spreads" - does this mean something other than just stats?

for stats, i'm a boreal dwarf 10m 13d 11c 18+1p 17i 8r, background aristocrat (to help pass all sorts of dialogue checks). i found being a boreal dwarf with maxed perception to be absolutely critical to beating hauani o whe solo with my tactician/skaen setup - it was the main megaboss i had worries about so the stats are a little bit single-purpose into taking out that megaboss ooze. i try to max out stealth as my primary skill, though some RNG messed me up and I had to put a point into mechanics to pick a critical lock with only 1 lockpick (instead of 3), though my planned-out-route involves me respeccing a few times to get the right skills needed to pass some encounter checks (two most critical respecs is athletics 6 + unguent of animalism to climb up the wall at hasongo quietly, and mechanics 4 to deal with traps at Hohina Ravine (lagufeth quest).

Edited June 12, 2019 by thelee

[baldurs_gate_2]

Sandswept ruins are pretty nice after fort deadlight. It does net you 8k+ experience for disarming the ones you can. If you have the leap boots from FD, you can jump over the last ones and get even more (some traps do not give any xp - mostly they you can not disarm).

[thelee]

I had some time today (out sick) so spent some serious time re-plotting out second part of act 2-3.

I'm very, very close to a breakthrough with my practice characters. With my revised plotting I'm like 2k experience away from level 16 and just need to figure out a way to take out Jaderfylas (i'm at ashen maw), which should put me over the top. After that, everything else should fall into place since I'll have Salvation of Time access. Jaderfylas is probably just a matter of patience, but I've been at this all day and didn't feel like putting more time in for now. (Jaderfylas also cheats, even if you keep mule kicking her, she'll still be able to pull off her ability that brings down a meteor swarm and summons magma oozes. This is what made me give up for now.)

15 hours ago, baldurs_gate_2 said:

Sandswept ruins are pretty nice after fort deadlight. It does net you 8k+ experience for disarming the ones you can. If you have the leap boots from FD, you can jump over the last ones and get even more (some traps do not give any xp - mostly they you can not disarm).

8K sounds real good right about now; if i can't figure out Jaderfylas I'll probably load up my practice character before leaving for Ashen Maw and instead cash in some principi quests (hanging sepulchers) and respec so I can do sandswept ruins. I'm a little worried that it'll eat up a lot of time, but a guaranteed level 16 in act 3 with some days burned off is still way better than hitting an absolute deadend.

 

Let me just say though that I'm really curious to know where everyone else is getting their experience. I have to roll the dice on a couple of ship bounties and I have some extremely tricky stealth sections that I'm going to have to practice over and over and over and over again until I can do it in my sleep. And I'd just barely hit level 16 right when I need it (to escape Jade's lair since the stealthing won't work as well). Though sandswept 8k would help quite a bit.

By the way, the stealth mechanic is really underrated and way better than in PoE1. The simple yet consistent rules for sound generation and enemy positioning allows for some real emergent gameplay. Hanging sepulchers was my first major stealth headache, and it took probably like 20-30 attempts on my practice character before I pieced together the noises made from traps and scrolls to give me a consistent (if extremely challenging to pull off) way to get one of the eulogies. It was real satisfying to get it to click. For the curious, I recorded my practice character for my own reference since it was really hard to write it all down with specific positioning: 

 

edit - astute observers familiar with roman numerals may notice that my practice character is named "practice tinny xxi" but the few videos i posted of my real run is "tinny xxiii." RIP

edit 2 - another extremely major headache is on the ashen bridge in ashen maw: https://youtu.be/FRJyeFIzc1o, also originally recorded just for my own reference. as the video description says, even though some of it looks random, every single aspect of it (very specifictrap positioning, where to throw sparkcrackers) was figured out over many many failures and works 100% of the time.

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by thelee

[thelee]

On 6/6/2019 at 9:37 AM, thelee said:

 

On 6/6/2019 at 9:11 AM, Wotcha said:

I seem to recall that you're even good with 8m weapons if you're very careful about where you stand.  Might want to test that first.

ha, no worry about that, i'm testing everything. even trivial run-around-for-fetch quests part i rehearse a minimum of two times (one for pathing, one for dress-rehearsal) to make sure there's absolutely no mistake about even hitting the wrong dialogue option. super tedious, but after an early attempt where i did the Upoho Wharo Woods on Maje Island and hit the wrong option and instead of getting Wise Teeth Necklace I entered a fight that was rapidly fatal, I'm making sure everything is pre-planned and well-known.

btw, good thing I practiced the giant cave grub. We both forgot about skaen's challenge. You can't range what you can't see.

 

Fortunately, at level 15 the giant cave grub is extremely easy to solo with tactician/skaen - it helps that the giant cave grub is stationary so once adds appear I can duck into the entrance and the giant cave grub is automatically "out of the fight" so I just mule kick both adds and now I have Brilliant on.

Edited June 13, 2019 by thelee

[baldurs_gate_2]

So, anyone figured it out, if the days add up or do they not? (eothas challenge)

[thelee]

1 hour ago, baldurs_gate_2 said:

So, anyone figured it out, if the days add up or do they not? (eothas challenge)

this is why i'm doing ashen maw right now. i have like 24 days left, and i'm hoping to see if all of it carries over.

a small # of days definitely do carry over, that much can be confirmed.

[Raven Darkholme]

It all carries over, but you only get a new timer after Hasongo and Ashen maw.

[Enoch]

17 hours ago, thelee said:

By the way, the stealth mechanic is really underrated and way better than in PoE1. The simple yet consistent rules for sound generation and enemy positioning allows for some real emergent gameplay. Hanging sepulchers was my first major stealth headache, and it took probably like 20-30 attempts on my practice character before I pieced together the noises made from traps and scrolls to give me a consistent (if extremely challenging to pull off) way to get one of the eulogies. It was real satisfying to get it to click. For the curious, I recorded my practice character for my own reference since it was really hard to write it all down with specific positioning: 

 

You know, I've always thought that Sunbeam was somewhat underrated, particularly due to its rather rare range of 15M, making it a useful combat-initiator.  But I'd never thought of utilizing that range for stealth purposes, with Scrolls of Sunbeam serving as Sparkcrackers that you can throw much further. 

So thanks for cluing me into a new trick!

[Wotcha]

5 minutes ago, Enoch said:

You know, I've always thought that Sunbeam was somewhat underrated, particularly due to its rather rare range of 15M, making it a useful combat-initiator.  But I'd never thought of utilizing that range for stealth purposes, with Scrolls of Sunbeam serving as Sparkcrackers that you can throw much further. 

So thanks for cluing me into a new trick!

I have been focusing just on otherwise-vanilla PotD stealth runs as opposed to going full-monty Ultimate, but Sunbeam's range had NOT escaped my notice.  It makes Eothas priests surprisingly good at stealth, because of the utility of long-range distraction.  Particularly since priest spells otherwise have such crap range.  For full-fledged druids, Burst of Summer Flame (an otherwise disappointing spell) has additional utility for this particular task, due to the very fast cast time allowing you to hit precise time windows for your distractions, on top of also having 15m range. Since Fury druids are stuck with that as their level 2 bonus spell, it's a way of getting some use out of it.  For stealth runs where you can get back out of combat (i.e. no Berath challenge), Fury druids also have the benefit of the teleport encounter power on their shapeshift, which helps them reach a favorable position to drop combat from after the occasional stealth failure.

Wizards aren't entirely out of the range game either, as Arduous Delay of Motion has 15m range so it can be used as a long-range distraction spell as well.

[Boeroer]

There are some spells that work with Instruments of Pain (Monk). I think Burst of Summer Flame is one of them. Since IoP gives you range * 6 it leads to ridiculous spell ranges. 

 

Ah no,it was Sunlance, not Burst. Too bad. 

[Wotcha]

22 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

There are some spells that work with Instruments of Pain (Monk). I think Burst of Summer Flame is one of them. Since IoP gives you range * 6 it leads to ridiculous spell ranges. 

 

Ah no,it was Sunlance, not Burst. Too bad. 

Could it be something like all spells that target Deflection?  Because there's other stuff like Talon's Reach which could benefit from that particular combo.  Although being tied to Instruments of Pain and multiclass, it's strictly an endgame combo, and stealth is an early-game strategy, because anybody making it as far as the endgame is spoiled for choice when it comes to brutally overpowered combos.

Incidentally, if it is that spells targeting deflection that benefit from IoP... the first defense that Jernaugh's Equalizing Burst targets is Deflection.  That's a spell that I'm dying to come up with a ridiculous combo for.  I think I'll test that this weekend.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Wotcha

[baldurs_gate_2]

When you do following quests:

All on Port Maje

Fort Deadlight

Sandswept ruins traps (all that net you +xp and you can reach with leap boots / hylea's bounty +thiefs putty)

Dunnage (except that one with the musical)

Neketaka (Except Old city dereo quest, persa fight and the following fights, both at the sacred stairs)

And disarm most traps / unlock most chests, you can reach level 13 without fighting anything in Neketaka.

With a SC Monk, you get DS, what makes fights possible and you are not related to summons

I don't know, how much xp exactly you can farm in the old city, if you do the whole thing.

[Decadency]

I've already spent 53 days and finished "He waits in fire". Not sure if I got enough time for finishing or it's time to restart 

I'm Bloodmage / Skaen. Also I've never killed Sigilmaster Auranic and don't know how to do this with my class. Tried a bit with my regular save. Looks very hard and risky for now.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Decadency

[baldurs_gate_2]

Auranic is not really a problem. She has a limited amount of spells. The pillars are the real threat. In my monk playthrough, the helm that should have made me immune to resolve afflictions, did not work properly and i got terrified and to get 18x will is not so easy (possible with a monk). Question is, to eat the right food and to hope that effigy husk and immune to might afflictions work, because the two mobs there use charge and one pillar uses tayn's orb.