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Phenomenum

Core class mechanic BUG. Broken Chanter's Phrases scaling (probably from release)

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All further information was verified, tested and easy to reproduce.

As we know, my dear developers, all abilities scaling rules divided to 5 categories, listed in global.gamedatabundle, depending on ability's type:

  • DefaultMultiProjectileScaling (for projectile abilities)
  • DefaultBounceScaling (for bounce abilities)
  • DefaultEffectScaling (buffs / debuffs)
  • DefaultWeaponAttackScaling (for martial abilities)
  • DefaultFallbackScaling (for all abilities which don't fall in any previous category, and this is the rules for Phrases scaling)

Let's take a closer look:
"DefaultFallbackScaling":
"ScalingType": "Default",
"BaseLevel": 0,
"LevelIncrement": 1,
"MaxLevel": 0,
"DamageAdjustment": 1.05,
"DurationAdjustment": 1,
"BounceCountAdjustment": 0,
"ProjectileCountAdjustment": 0,
"AccuracyAdjustment": 2,
"PenetrationAdjustment": 0.25

According to this rules (and tests), every Power Level all Phrases gains additional +5% Damage, +0.25 Penetration, and +2 Accuracy.
In fact, there are only 3 Phrase gain benefits: Ancestor's Memories (+1 base Health), Come, Come, Soft Wind of Death (2 base Raw Damage) and Dragon Thrashed (4 Slash / Fire Damage).

All Phrases gains scaling bonuses, starting from Power Level 2, nomather of it's acquiring Level (e.g. Dragon Thrashed (5 Level Ability) already have +20% bonus Damage (4.8 Slash / Fire) when you pick it.
Maximum values at PL 9 for all affected Phrases: +40% Damage, +2 Penetration, +16 Accuracy. If you have Prestige Ability, then it will be +45% Damage, +2.25 Penetration, +18 Accuracy.
Single class character gains scaling bonuses at 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 16, 19 levels.

But what is not OK then?
Phrases for multiclass Chanters follows the same progression rules as single class. In fact, multiclass characher gains scaling bonuses at the same 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 16, 19 levels.

The only difference between Single and Multiclass Chanter's Phrases efficiency ā€“ single class have possibility to pick up Prestige ability to gain additional +1 PL scaling. Which is neglitable, comparing multiclass.

We can't fix it with mods, so my dear and lovely Obsidian developers...

[Rage mode on]

DO YOUR JOB AND FIX IT BEFORE PATCH RELEASE!
YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF FREE TESTERS, THROGH US, AND I'M PERSONALLY TIRED OF THIS BULLšŸ’©
I'M (and for sure i'm not the only one) TIRED TO DISCOVER NEVERENDLESS BUGS AND INCONSISTENCIES, WHICH
YOU SHOULD FIND AND FIX IN FIRST PLACE.

[Rage mode off]

Thank you for your undivided attention. Hugs and kisses. šŸ˜˜

P.S. 'No hard feelings, good game' (c) Jeff Ā«JokerĀ» Moreau

Ā 

Edited by Phenomenum
Grammar mistakes

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It's indeed weird that chants of both [single-class] and [multi-class] chanters use PL progression of [single-class].

It is also unclear how to mod it. Gamedatabundles give no clue.

Also, their respective abilities (e.g.Ā Chant_The_Dragon_Thrashed_The) all have AbilityLevel:Ā 1, which is inconsistent with spells and powers. WasĀ this intended?

P.S. Interesting... were chants implemented before Josh came up with the idea of different scaling for single/multi?)

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I doubt they will do any major mechanism change in such late phase of game honestly. Specially when now they are busy with the release of new game. I think tho SC chanter has quite close PL as multiple class ones, they get Lv 8,9 invocation and phrase in compensate arenā€™t they?

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1 hour ago, MaxQuest said:

It's indeed weird that chants of both [single-class] and [multi-class] chanters use PL progression of [single-class].

It is also unclear how to mod it. Gamedatabundles give no clue.

Also, their respective abilities (e.g.Ā Chant_The_Dragon_Thrashed_The) all have AbilityLevel:Ā 1, which is inconsistent with spells and powers. WasĀ this intended?

P.S. Interesting... were chants implemented before Josh came up with the idea of different scaling for single/multi?)

there's a other stuff that still uses single-class PL scaling, not just chants (monastic unarmed training; all consumables back in the day also get single-class-based +PL scaling).

iĀ thinkĀ the intent is similar to summoned creature/item scaling, where some abilities you just want to be scale usefully regardless of single or multiclass status, but the problem is that it's always a judgment call so it always looks random and surprising when you discover it.

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1 hour ago, thelee said:

iĀ thinkĀ the intent is similar to summoned creature/item scaling, where some abilities you just want to be scale usefully regardless of single or multiclass status, but the problem is that it's always a judgment call so it always looks random and surprising when you discover it.

Well, then i'll wait for Obsidian's official answer. For something like: "We verified your report and can confirm it's not a bug, but intended feature - to give some of passive abilities and chants single class progression scaling for multiclass characters."

Until that, i will consider it a bug, becose it 'feature' have no consistency with declared scaling mechanics and looks like nonsence)

Edited by Phenomenum
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16 minutes ago, Phenomenum said:

Well, then i'll wait for Obsidian's official answer. For something like: "We verified your report and can confirm it's not a bug, but intended feature - to give some of passive abilities and chants single class progression scaling for multiclass characters."

Until that, i will consider it a bug, becose it 'feature' have no consistency with declared scaling mechanics and looks like nonsence)

oh I was speaking more towards MaxQuest's more general question about why single-class PL scaling exists at all.

in my mind there's no question that chant scaling is broken.

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22 hours ago, thelee said:

there's a other stuff that still uses single-class PL scaling, not just chants (monastic unarmed training; all consumables back in the day also get single-class-based +PL scaling).

iĀ thinkĀ the intent is similar to summoned creature/item scaling, where some abilities you just want to be scale usefully regardless of single or multiclass status, but the problem is that it's always a judgment call so it always looks random and surprising when you discover it.

Hmm, monastic unarmed training - is a neutral talent.

Consumables and items are also not class specific.

Ā 

Meanwhile chants are available only to chanters. And the assumed intent eludes me a bit.

If we have two characters: a lvl 20 priest/helwalker and a lvl 20 single-class priest, I would expect a SC priest to get a higher PL bonus with priest spells than an MC one, just to compensate for the bonuses that can come from the second class. And same thing with chants.Ā 

And tbh with summons too...

Ā 

In either case: untilĀ itĀ is declared as intended, I am tending to consider this as inconsistent with other class-specific spells/powers/abilities.

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Yes this could beĀ intentional. For instance i think the animal companion scales same whether single or multiclass. i think they have been inconstant with scaling stuff with power level as you can see some does and some doesnt.Ā 

Edited by draego

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