Spells used up when interrupted in spite of no spell actually cast

[Woopee]

If only there were a mechanic in place to prevent being interrupted...

[Daskard]

The loss of spells combined with their set number of uses per encounter were the main reason I stopped my illusionist after ~3h. Why would I choose a class, that doesn't deal damage and on top of that has such a limited amount of actions per encounter available?

 

I chose a Cipher-Beguiler instead. Best decision ever. A hex has been interrupted? Not a problem, 2 shots with the bow and I have got my resources back.

 

But!

To those who defend the loss of an interrupted spell with "you lose the ressources for a fighter's skill, too":

Fighter skills are instant (at least most of them?!) while many spells take a few seconds.

Let's play a game: You try to interrupt my instant fighter attack and I try to interrupt your 3 second animation.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Daskard

[MountainTiger]

The loss of spells combined with their set number of uses per encounter were the main reason I stopped my illusionist after ~3h. Why would I choose a class, that doesn't deal damage and on top of that has such a limited amount of actions per encounter available?

 

I chose a Cipher-Beguiler instead. Best decision ever. A hex has been interrupted? Not a problem, 2 shots with the bow and I have got my resources back.

 

But!

To those who defend the loss of an interrupted spell with "you lose the ressources for a fighter's skill, too":

Fighter skills are instant (at least most of them?!) while many spells take a few seconds.

Let's play a game: You try to interrupt my instant fighter attack and I try to interrupt your 3 second animation.

 

The lineage of interrupts in Deadfire goes back through D&D systems where martial abilities were rare and generally uninterruptible; interrupts interacting with casters more than martials is part of the "retro feel" thing.

[Boeroer]

Sure. If you acknowledge that your instant fighter ability has less impact on the encouter than the common 3-sec-animation wizard spell...

 

Compare Knockdown with Slicken. Penetrating Strike with Expose Vulnerabilities. Compare Llengraht's Safeguard with Refreshing Defense.

 

Also compare ability use per encounter of a lvl 20 fighter (max discipline) with a lvl 20 wizard (max spell uses).

Edited March 28, 2019 by Boeroer

[Verde]

Sure. If you acknowledge that your instant fighter ability has less impact on the encouter than the common 3-sec-animation wizard spell...

 

Compare Knockdown with Slicken. Penetrating Strike with Expose Vulnerabilities. Compare Llengraht's Safeguard with Refreshing Defense.

 

Also compare ability use per encounter of a lvl 20 fighter (max discipline) with a lvl 20 wizard (max spell uses).

I can't remember my fighter ever being interrupted tbh, whereas casters have the risk of getting interrupted more often due to their cast times. Plus, how many fights are you gonna win without a tank vs without a wizard? Heck I don't even reg role with a Wizard bc they take so damn long to do anything. Edited March 29, 2019 by Verde

[bringingyouthefuture]

Playing Aloth tank as a fighter/wizaed (ugh low HP, low damage output), but I normally start each battle with 4 concentration, almost instantly - only time I really had an issue was with that Grimoire that interrupts on each hit - Vaporous Wizardry, until I realized that was the cause, it was the only time had any issue with interrupts.  Also, I think I gave him an item that gives him +1 concentration or maybe it was a passive ... can't remember off the top of my head.

 

edit:

Obviously this doesn't have much to do with solo PoTD runs so not sure if helpful.

Edited March 28, 2019 by bringingyouthefuture

[Boeroer]

 

Sure. If you acknowledge that your instant fighter ability has less impact on the encouter than the common 3-sec-animation wizard spell...

 

Compare Knockdown with Slicken. Penetrating Strike with Expose Vulnerabilities. Compare Llengraht's Safeguard with Refreshing Defense.

 

Also compare ability use per encounter of a lvl 20 fighter (max discipline) with a lvl 20 wizard (max spell uses).

I can't remember my fighter ever being interrupted tbh, whereas casters have the risk of getting interrupted more often due to their cast times. Plus, how many fights are you gonna win without a tank vs without a wizard? Heck I don't even reg role with a Wizard bc they take so damn long to do anything.

Tank != Fighter. You can build a wizard into a tank. But that's not the point. What does the dedicated role of a class has to do with this topic?

 

If you compare the active abilities of classes you will see the general approach that there are several ways to balance abilities: power of impact,AoE, duration, cost, animation time and recovery. An ability like Vigorous Defense does similar things as Llengraths Safeguard. And both are fast casts. A single target interrupt like Knockdown is fast - while a repeated AoE knockdown via Slicken is much more powerful and has lots of impact on an encounter and thus takes longer to cast so the enemy has the chance to interrupt that tide-turning thing.

 

Totally reasonable. The whole interrupt/concentration thing is supposed to give an additional tactical layer. It's also fairly simple: don't want to get interrupted: use concentration. Don't want to eat that spell: interrupt.

 

Of course: if somebody doesn't use interrupts themselves but only receives them (because enemies don't bother if you ignore a game mechanic) it might feel unfair.

But what's good for the enemy is also good for you as long as both have access.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Boeroer

[Verde]

That's true, you can have other tanks besides fighters. I'm just so used to Eder at this pt haha.

[Daskard]

Sure. If you acknowledge that your instant fighter ability has less impact on the encouter than the common 3-sec-animation wizard spell...

 

Compare Knockdown with Slicken. Penetrating Strike with Expose Vulnerabilities. Compare Llengraht's Safeguard with Refreshing Defense.

 

Also compare ability use per encounter of a lvl 20 fighter (max discipline) with a lvl 20 wizard (max spell uses).

 

Well put, your argument makes sense to me.

It's just that personally I don't miss my casters at any time - they can barely use their AoEs, because the enemies stick to my fighters, which increases the risk of friendly fire tremendously.

 

I prefer a fighter with 3 pull skills that get through for crowd control to a wizard who loses every second or third skill to an interrupt. And it's the good skills that take time.

I prefer a Beguiler, who can gain new cast ressources at any time, for crowd control over an Illusionist, who (partly) has friendly-fire crowd control with a set amount of uses.

I prefer an autoattack monk for raw dps over a clunky glas cannon wizard with a set amount of friendly-fire AoE spells. (Don't tell me to just use missiles or wait ages for chain lightning)

 

On another playthrough I will choose Cyphers over wizards, again. If you risk losing your skill uses, they should not be limited, otherwise the class is just too dependant on the enemy type, compared to the other clases.

 

My Beguiler turns most enemies into unmotivated one-hits, while my Illusionist was just "Oh, half my skills effect my teammates, oh the other half got interrupted - autoattack it is.

 

That was my personal experience and while I agree, that you can make wizards work well, as far as I have experienced it takes just more effort than with Cyphers. So why bother?