Political Point and Counterpoint

[smjjames]

 

@ GD and Gromnir: Speaking of housing, in last nights CNN town hall, Elizabeth Warren in response to a question about lowering rents basically went 'lets build five million new houses' (there wasn't much detail put into it). My first thought on that was 'um, housing bubble? Wasn't a housing bubble partly the reason for the 'great recession'?' Plus, it doesn't seem like just building 5 million more will help lower rents, you can build as many houses as you want, but it's not really going to change local conditions all that much.

 

The town halls are fine for airing ideas, but they don't get debated and contested.

 

The housing bubble wasn't a construction bubble, it was a lending bubble. Lenders were giving loans to everyone that could breathe which drove up prices, which drove up the loaned amounts, which drove up the premiums, which house owners couldn't play, which crashed the economy. This may have driven up construction as well, but if so, that was a consequence of the bubble, not a cause.

 

 

Right, right, lending, not construction. I could have sworn I'd heard of a housing construction bubble somewhere. Either way, 'Build more houses!' doesn't seem like an acceptable answer to lowering rents. As Gromnir said, it's not so simple as 'needing more houses', it's the type of housing that is available.

[Pidesco]

I don't know how much rents have increased compared to inflation, but what I do know is that effective wages have gone down. So maybe the problem with high rents is more a problem of purchasing power than anything else.

[Gromnir]

@ GD and Gromnir: Speaking of housing, in last nights CNN town hall, Elizabeth Warren in response to a question about lowering rents basically went 'lets build five million new houses' (there wasn't much detail put into it). My first thought on that was 'um, housing bubble? Wasn't a housing bubble partly the reason for the 'great recession'?' Plus, it doesn't seem like just building 5 million more will help lower rents, you can build as many houses as you want, but it's not really going to change local conditions all that much.

 

The town halls are fine for airing ideas, but they don't get debated and contested.

yeah, a plan to build 5 million new houses doesn't mean much to w/o context. am admitted gonna need look at what warren is talking 'bout.  however, the housing bubble weren't caused simple 'cause there were too many houses being built in the suburbs, which itself is a bit different than the urban housing crisis. in 2008ish, there were a cascade effect from bad home loans and bonds all failing at once.  warren is one o' the few folks who were vocal complaining 'bout the banking problems which led to the great recession.  perhaps counter-intuitive, george w. bush also tried to tap the breaks on bank excess, but one o' his vetoes actual got overturned by Congress. point is, warren is not ignorant to the causes o' the great recession, so am suspecting part o' her plan necessarily involves greater bank regulation, and bank regulation issues were the real cause o' great recession.

 

however, as in 2008, far too many people got a large % o' their life savings tied up in their homes.  people never learn. you build 5 million additional homes beyond what market current is producing and home values somewheres will drop.  if you ain't careful, such a plan will serious hurt those folks depending on the sale o' their home to be retiring. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[smjjames]

I don't think shes ignorant about the causes of the Great Recession, just seems like she didn't put a whole lot of thought into how to answer that particular question. There may have been a bit further detail in what she said last night, but the 'build more houses!' part is all I remember of that particular answer.

 

As for the cause of the Great Recession itself, I knew it was loans, just mixed up that with a housing construction bubble I swear I'd heard of somewhere, China maybe.

[Malcador]

Actually, I believe the .223 is considered an "unhumane" round because it tumbles on impact, which creates a much larger wound channel.

 

Ah ok, was just looking at it in terms of energy.  Also sure is a lot of people that take umbrage to the 5.56 and M-16 in general, searching about this

Edited March 19, 2019 by Malcador

[Gfted1]

Sounds like it comes from the OSC "just pay for it" school of thought. Lets see where this goes.

[Gfted1]

Ah ok, was just looking at it in terms of energy.  Also sure is a lot of people that take umbrage to the 5.56 and M-16 in general, searching about this

Seems youre right: Does a .223 round tumble on impact or does it begin to tumble in its trajectory?

[smjjames]

Sounds like it comes from the OSC "just pay for it" school of thought. Lets see where this goes.

 

OSC?

[Gfted1]

Whoops, I meant AOC, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

[Gromnir]

 

Sounds like it comes from the OSC "just pay for it" school of thought. Lets see where this goes.

 

OSC?

 

perhaps aoc?

 

dunno.

 

again, haven't looked, but am recalling a low and middle income housing plan from warren in the 3 million unit range.  would cost far less than to build a largely pointless southern border wall ($8-10 billion grant money?) and would result in both new job creation and a somewhat novel solution to the wealth inequality root problems.

 

families pass on wealth.  is one reason why attempts to level the playing field for minorities in 2019 ignores how minority families were getting screwed outta home loans until relative recent.  sure, rules is relative fair now, but you disadvantaged many people for generations. stare at 2019 rules and say "all is fair, so go out and get yourself a house," ignores how economic landscape has shifted, making home ownership more expensive than ever before. as we noted earlier, homes is where americans keep a disproportionate amount o' their wealth and minorities weren't able to take advantage o' most o' the home ownership programs, which meant they weren't able to pass on wealth to next generation who would use extra money to go to college and acquire more wealth to pass on to next generation. median home values relative to income has much increased, so you got a whole lotta folks facing a serious uphill battle to become first-time home owners. is a cycle which repeats itself and becomes more pronounced with each generation... and the great recession made worse 'cause the folks who were most likely to lose their homes in 2008-2014 were lower-middle income folks.  the people who bought those encheapened and foreclosed 'pon houses were the wealthy.  

 

warren is no different than others when it comes to payment for plans.  all these plans somehow pay for themselves in the long run, or so the pitch goes.  more tax revenues generated and whatnot.  is hogwash.  is gonna cost no matter how you slice it, is gonna cost billions, but such a plan does appear to actual reach the core o' the income inequality issues in this nation.

 

'course, as we said, the kinda homes being built is gonna most affect values o' similar homes, so older lower/middle income folks is gonna need serious worry 'bout impact on their retirement plans. 

 

am recalling much o' the billions o' dollars warren wants will s'posed come from estate taxes, but have honest not looked at how she proposes to change numbers.

 

but again, am recalling a 3 million home plan and am honest fuzzy on details, so if somebody knows more, we will happily defer to superior knowledge o' the details.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

'Fake News' Bill Signed Into Law in Russia.

 

We need something like this pronto!

[213374U]

'Fake News' Bill Signed Into Law in Russia.

 

We need something like this pronto!

 

I don't think so -- the law doesn't apply to "traditional" media, i.e. those registered as media with the government. So CNN and Fox could still peddle bull unmolested.

[Zoraptor]

just ban all australians entering the country until we figure out what the hell's going on

 

That's the irony about it, guy hated muslim immigration and the one place we could have banned immigration from to stop it wasn't Afghanistan or Syria, but Australia. But yeah, Australia didn't send their best.

 

New Zealand wants answers from Mark Zuckerberg over mosque attack video.

 

"Squee squee! Ban all video!"

 

It isn't banning all video of course, and expecting some dude in the US to bow before NZ law is about as presumptuous as expecting us to bow before US law (albeit that's a lot more common) but then again threatening people with 14 years in jail for watching the gunman's video is also utterly moronic. I can't help but think a lot of the reason why they're trying to suppress his views is not so much public protection and copycats but that they're following the exact path he predicted they would in response with knees jerking through desks.

 

Knees understandably jerking through desks, but I'm not a fan of changing anything just because of that bellend, and there will inevitably be people trying to push their pet projects on gun control and information dissemination now they're 'doable'. The old 'something must be done, this is something, ergo it must be done' fallacy is very much in play.

 

Hm if they have to pick 2, the two more modern weapons would be a smart idea. Garand has the issue of no partial reloading, weight. And the other two can be altered for another mode (difficulty aside).

 

You cannot practically rebuild the semi autos sold here to automatic. You can't sell models that just have auto mode disabled in some way so if you want to convert you'd have to rebuild the entire weapon. That's a bit of a sore point with some collectors as they have to gut their collections mechanically.

 

 

 

got a funny memory.  every once in a while we gotta take the old rolled up newspaper to zor, but regardless, trying to wrap your blunder in the tragedy o' fifty corpses demeans you more than it does Gromnir.  were absolute no reason to turn this into a tim apple.  is a common mistake to think the ar-15 is something other than a semi-auto weapon. common.  still a mistake. try and gain sympathy by deflecting is classic zor tactic and increasing transparent with each passing iteration, but am admitting this maudlin protest is jejune.

 

 

Typical Grom. I specifically say the AR15 is a semi auto, Grom complains and two posts later is saying that it's a common mistake to say it isn't an auto as if that isn't exactly what I said three posts ago.

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

Typical Grom. I specifically say the AR15 is a semi auto, Grom complains and two posts later is saying that it's a common mistake to say it isn't an auto as if that isn't exactly what I said three posts ago.

 

what you said were, "Assault rifles have been banned here for ages, all you can buy is a semi auto that looks like an AK or AR-15."

 

svengali it all you want, but am doubting anybody buys the act more than they did the tim apple error.  if your real concern is the 50 dead, am not certain how your continued defense is honoring their memory.

 

*pause for a moment of silence*

 

were a minor slip, a trivial but oft repeated bit o' ignorance. you get to be our resident don lemon for the day, but weren't a biggie. 

 

regardless, is becoming spam. say something different.

 

to get back on-track

 

"In other words, it significantly expands the repressive power of Russia’s repressive apparatus. This may be compared to the Stalin’s Troika, a commission of three for express judgment in the Soviet Union during the time of Joseph Stalin who issued sentences to people after simplified, speedy investigations and without a public and fair trial."

 

typical we would assume support for such is a joke, but coming from gifted...

 

irony perhaps missed. such a story could be deemed critical o' russia and/or fake news.  regardless o' gifted's curious support, posting the link would be enough to make him subject to fines and imprisonment, depending on opinion o' prosecutor's office.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

It isn't banning all video of course, and expecting some dude in the US to bow before NZ law is about as presumptuous as expecting us to bow before US law (albeit that's a lot more common) but then again threatening people with 14 years in jail for watching the gunman's video is also utterly moronic. I can't help but think a lot of the reason why they're trying to suppress his views is not so much public protection and copycats but that they're following the exact path he predicted they would in response with knees jerking through desks.

 

Knees understandably jerking through desks, but I'm not a fan of changing anything just because of that bellend, and there will inevitably be people trying to push their pet projects on gun control and information dissemination now they're 'doable'. The old 'something must be done, this is something, ergo it must be done' fallacy is very much in play.

 

My poorly communicated point was, how would you even "keep harmful content off their platforms" sans literally banning live stream videos. They recognize that the providers reacted quickly and earnestly but what else is there?

[HoonDing]

wasn't life better before this social media bs

[Gfted1]

This is my social media.

 

Its probably just a generational thing though, no? Did our grandparents rue telephones in every house I wonder? What happens when we can link minds in a few generations?

[Guard Dog]

Ditto for me. I have a Facebook account that i only have to play WSOP. Besides getting funny memes I have no use for it. Of course I have no friends and communicate very little with what family I have left. I have a LinkdIn account I keep up with because you never know what job may be available. Other than that this is one of just five online boards I enjoy conversing with the regulars on. 

[Malcador]

Each of my burner identities has a FB page

[Zoraptor]

 

My poorly communicated point was, how would you even "keep harmful content off their platforms" sans literally banning live stream videos.

 

They can't. Their [the people complaining, to be specific] response with respect to most things including Twitter and Facebook is, basically, outrage or sadness porn with a dollop of authoritarianism for good measure, and I loathe Facebook and to a lesser extent Twitter. But, there are literally people here who are quite earnest in their belief that not only should Twitter/ Facebook/ Youtube be prosecuted- when we can't even get them to pay taxes but they seem to think we can throw Zuck in jail or something- but many of them also think anyone who got the guy's video autostreamed to them should be prosecuted for receiving it (!) and that isn't being helped by the police making pointless threats that judges and prosecutors will throw out of court/ never prosecute in the first place.

 

I'd have a decent amount of hope that cooler heads will prevail eventually. Some suggestions are plain impractical. Ban all semi autos and how do farmers control 50,000 rabbits a year? With a semi auto .22. OK, how about feral pigs or deer or goats or thar or moose that you cannot reliably take down with a bunny buster? Well OK, but we still want to ban ***weeoo weeoo trigger warning weeoo weeoo*** semi autos that look like an AK or AR-15.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Zoraptor

[Gromnir]

can tell this is gonna be like wod with stalinism. screws up one time and for the next three months we gotta hear how every left-leaning organization or person is stalinist. 

 

nothing new.

 

as to our social media footprint, a pygmy possum would need squint to see it. heck, we even gave up our smart phone for a flip phone. our next tweet will be our first. facebook? three stooges in a library is eventual gonna lead to face book, yes? as implausible as it sounds, have never even texted... evar.

 

all the social media hullabaloo leaves us indifferent, with a few notable exceptions.

 

Cambridge Analytica Secrets Allegedly Covered Up by Trump Campaign Veterans

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited March 19, 2019 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

You cannot practically rebuild the semi autos sold here to automatic. You can't sell models that just have auto mode disabled in some way so if you want to convert you'd have to rebuild the entire weapon. That's a bit of a sore point with some collectors as they have to gut their collections mechanically.

 

 

 

 

Well was thinking of wider group.  Don't imagine it is all that simple, but the potential is a risk for some.  Granted, people shouldn't be that much more scared of a full auto rifle than a semi auto one. 

 

Actually, Garand has one upside - shooter might get Garand thumb and drop the rifle

[smjjames]

 

 

My poorly communicated point was, how would you even "keep harmful content off their platforms" sans literally banning live stream videos.

 

They can't. Their [the people complaining, to be specific] response with respect to most things including Twitter and Facebook is, basically, outrage or sadness porn with a dollop of authoritarianism for good measure, and I loathe Facebook and to a lesser extent Twitter. But, there are literally people here who are quite earnest in their belief that not only should Twitter/ Facebook/ Youtube be prosecuted- when we can't even get them to pay taxes but they seem to think we can throw Zuck in jail or something- but many of them also think anyone who got the guy's video autostreamed to them should be prosecuted for receiving it (!) and that isn't being helped by the police making pointless threats that judges and prosecutors will throw out of court/ never prosecute in the first place.

 

I'd have a decent amount of hope that cooler heads will prevail eventually. Some suggestions are plain impractical. Ban all semi autos and how do farmers control 50,000 rabbits a year? With a semi auto .22. OK, how about feral pigs or deer or goats or thar or moose that you cannot reliably take down with a bunny buster? Well OK, but we still want to ban ***weeoo weeoo trigger warning weeoo weeoo*** semi autos that look like an AK or AR-15.

 

 

Besides, aren't seni-autos like, 60% or 70% (or maybe 80%) of all guns in the world and 90%+ of every gun ever invented (due to full autos being a relatively recent development)? The earliest guns where you have to manually prime the powder and c0ck the gun would be closest to a completely manual gun since the firing would still be automatic because gunpowder. The thing is that the semi-auto category is so broad as to be useless for legislating.

[Zoraptor]

 

 

Besides, aren't seni-autos like, 60% or 70% (or maybe 80%) of all guns in the world and 90%+ of every gun ever invented (due to full autos being a relatively recent development)? The earliest guns where you have to manually prime the powder and c0ck the gun would be closest to a completely manual gun since the firing would still be automatic because gunpowder. The thing is that the semi-auto category is so broad as to be useless for legislating.

 

 

Semi autos are rare here though*. Most people  just buy the cheapest gun that will get their particular job done, a majority would be bolt action .22LR for bunnies or possums, or shotguns for ducks. Serious game hunters would tend to go for a large calibre bolt action if they're after deer to eat, s/a only if they're culling rather than hunting, or hunting something potentially dangerous like a boar. And handguns are illegal, so a large class of s/a guns aren't here anyway.

 

*I wouldn't really know what the proportion of s/a guns are as a whole worldwide- and I doubt there's a sensible way to determine it either. I'd expect most in the US to be, but they are restricted in a lot of countries, and in others there's no one stopping you just getting an automatic. I'd be pretty confident 90% of the guns designed haven't been s/a, though it would depend a fair bit exactly how 'invented' was defined- the Brown Bess was in use for a century plus but was it always the same model, are clones of out of patent or licensed designs new models, was someone gunsmithing in their shed in the 19th century inventing a new design or not etc.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Zoraptor

[smjjames]

To be honest, I'm not even sure what makes a gun 'semi-automatic', people (politicians mostly) use the term so broadly and the fact that it's such a trigger (or maybe ' gun experts groan and facepalm at') word makes me think a significant majority of guns are semi-autos. Or maybe that's what the NRA would like to have liberals think so that the NRA can 'own the libs'.