In The Next POE (III): Would You Like To See The Remaining Godlike Revealed?

[Stardusk78]

Or at least some of them? 

[Frog Man]

Sure

[Ethics Gradient]

A thread about this came up on reddit a few weeks ago, and one user had this awesome theory.

My personal theory is that Wael godlikes look exactly like normal kith do. But they are normal kith who are incapable of wearing hats, for reasons that they can never understand.

I'm not sure I could possibly imagine anything more Wael-like.

[Cartoons Plural]

this thread reminds me to ask, who do moon godlike belong to? ondra?

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Ye, ondra.

 

suspect with the wheel broken, the gods wont be able to claim and funnel folk in quite the same way. perhaps godlikes will become an endangered species.

 

i feel it would be a fun thing to explore. maybe some godlike would start wondering if they have a communal heritage that could be lost. maybe some would mourn. maybe some wouldnt give a ****.

 

maybe one will go nutzoid in the face of it all and become an antagonist. who knows. a skaen godlike could very easily turn out like isair and madae from icewind dale 2 if the stars cross.

[Cartoons Plural]

so if moon godlike blong to ondra and she also has marine godlike in tekehu its possible other godlikes are multi aspect as well. like a beastial godlike for galawain. still a lot of variety to play with

 

what about a steel godlike for abydon, basically port colossus into pillars

Edited January 26, 2019 by Cartoons Plural

[Boeroer]

Of course I would. Imagine Galawain Godlikes. Whooo!

[Boeroer]

so if moon godlike blong to ondra and she also has marine godlike in tekehu its possible other godlikes are multi aspect as well. like a beastial godlike for galawain. still a lot of variety to play with

 

what about a steel godlike for abydon, basically port colossus into pillars

It seems that the godlikes are more based on aspects of the gods, not that there's necessarily "the" standard godlike for every god. That could mean that there's not only Endings Godlikes touched by Rymrgand, but also Frost Godlikes or so.

 

Basically we could see Rathun's as a different form of Magranite Godlikes, couldn't we?

Edited January 26, 2019 by Boeroer

[house2fly]

Hmm maybe. I thought of them as her version of the Eyeless. But then maybe Eyeless could be considered Abydon godlikes?

[Boeroer]

Since the purpose of godlikes is to store essence for the gods as "backup battery" - and since the gods can most likely also draw the essence from Rathûn and Eyeless(?): maybe...

 

Though I guess technically godlikes (born kith) and constructs (made vessels) are quite different.

 

I don't know if Rathûn are made or born... But they seem to have a free will. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Boeroer

[Cartoons Plural]

i think the rathun and eyeless are probably more like D&D angels, giants, demons, not "kith" perse but something else entirely whereas godlike is specifically kith that have been touched by the gods

[Nssheepster]

I've honestly been a bit annoyed since POE 1 that we have more Gods than we do Godlikes... And none of the Gods have any real reason why they would or would not have Godlikes, when they already have Priests. There's never really been a good excuuse IMO for Godlikes existing, which is fine, I could roll with that as just a thing Gods do, amybe to brag about whose Godlike are doing what or some such.... But that only works if we have ALL the Godlikes in the game, because then there's no reasoning behind why we don't have Godlikes for each God.

Also not fond of Tekehu having a different look for NO reason, other than Obsidian apparently not liking the look of Moon Godlikes? We never got that explained either AFAIK, just 'Hey there's this ONE GUY, and NO OTHERS, that are this different type of Godlike. Apparently it's normal in Deadfire, but totally unheard of anywhere else in the world, to the point that it's never mentioned until you reach Nekataka, and apparently there's no other 'Marine Godlike' of note anywhere in history....

 

Tekehu's special Godlike feels even more tacked on than the Ship Combat IMO. It doesn't fit with the rest of the world, anything we've been told or are told going on, it's just there, this one guy that looks different, because reasons.

[house2fly]

Well, there are more godlikes than what we see just like there are more than 11 types of people in the world. The character creation system can never really be representative of the whole setting.

 

The godlike are little reservoirs of essence that the gods can draw from in times of need. This may explain the lack of some of them- Eothas is too nice to do that, Abydon too probably, Woedica wouldn't be allowed(or she, as well as Abydon and Eothas, may have used their supply to stay alive already). Skaen godlikes are killed at birth, I believe Rymrgand ones usually are too. It makes sense you wouldn't see much of Wael's godlikes, Wael being Wael...

 

Tekehu has a different look because Ondra's aspects are both the moon and the sea, and what with Deadfire being a nautical adventure the designers probably felt an ocean godlike was appropriate. I don't believe it is actually normal- iirc Tekehu's been treated with reverence since birth because being an ocean godlike marks him as Ngati's Chosen, which sounds pretty rare.

 

Tekehu in general is relevant to the game because he struggles with apparently being marked for destiny while he wants to just live a normal life, sort of a reflection of the player character who is pretty much destined to make history no matter what they do, and a reflection also of the game's themes of steering the march of history vs being swept aside by it. His connection with the Watershapers is also relevant, as the dark secret at the heart of the Watershapers' power foreshadows the Wheel, the dark secret at the heart of the gods. Tekehu also can turn into a shark, which is cool.

[Nssheepster]

Tekehu could've easily had all that.... As a MOON Godlike. Would've worked exactly the same, just without adding a random extra Godlike type without explanation.

[house2fly]

The explanation is that godlikes represent aspects of their god, and Ondra's aspects include the moon and the ocean. The explanation is also that the game takes place on the sea so Obsidian wanted a more sea-themed godlike.

[Nssheepster]

The explanation is that godlikes represent aspects of their god, and Ondra's aspects include the moon and the ocean. The explanation is also that the game takes place on the sea so Obsidian wanted a more sea-themed godlike.

See... That's not really an in-canon explanation tho. She has one Godlike... Why have more? Never explained. As far as the Obsidian thing goes... Fine, as long as they had had a reason IN the game, for why one God wanted two types of Godlikes for no apparent reason. But they don't, just 'Oh since this God, like most of them, represents multiple things, this one wanted multiple ways to mark her chosen rather than one, like the other Gods.... Because reasons, and no we'll never really address it in game even if you pick Moon Godlike for your Watcher.'

[house2fly]

Why have only one godlike? What's the in-canon explanation for that?

[Nssheepster]

Why have only one godlike? What's the in-canon explanation for that?

We don't have much of one. Deadfire makes it clear that Godlikes are some kind of emergency essence hoard for the Gods, but that doesn't really jive.... Until Deadfire, they had no reason to think they'd ever need any such hoard. The Gods are also pretty clearly not the thinking-ahead, just-in-case sort of creatures, so that really doesn't explain why Godlikes are around, just how the Gods are currently thinking of their Godlikes. It's not clear why ANY Godlikes exist, just that they are the chosen of that God.... Because reasons? Gods have Priests already, no idea why they need 'Chosen' as well.

[WailingHost]

Hopefully we actually get a third game.

[Cartoons Plural]

 

Why have only one godlike? What's the in-canon explanation for that?

We don't have much of one. Deadfire makes it clear that Godlikes are some kind of emergency essence hoard for the Gods, but that doesn't really jive.... Until Deadfire, they had no reason to think they'd ever need any such hoard. The Gods are also pretty clearly not the thinking-ahead, just-in-case sort of creatures, so that really doesn't explain why Godlikes are around, just how the Gods are currently thinking of their Godlikes. It's not clear why ANY Godlikes exist, just that they are the chosen of that God.... Because reasons? Gods have Priests already, no idea why they need 'Chosen' as well.

 

 

check this out: what if it doesn't even need to be explained at all

 

someone had a character idea for a big fish godlike who was a local legend but a little out of his depth in the real world, they react to him as if he's special in world, he has a special relationship with ondra, is it necessary to answer all of your questions can ambiguity be had?

Edited January 28, 2019 by Cartoons Plural

[Nssheepster]

If a story, regardless of presentation, leaves someone asking a question, there's an issue. That said, if you wanswer questions people don't ask, you have issues... See Midochlorians for proof of that.

 

It's a delicate balancing act, but it's needed all the same, for all types of stories.

 

In this case, it raises a LOT of questions. Why wasn't just a moon godlike enough? Why IS he special to Ondra? Why is sea better than moon as far as she's concerned? She never cares if the Watcher is Moon Godlike really. What's the deal THERE? Does Deadfire not have Moon Godlikes? Are they less special despite belonging to the same god?

 

Some ambiguity is one thing. We have that at times. I don't mind that we don't get an explanation on 'Why do Godlikes exist?' I wouldn't mind knowing, but I don't need to really. In this case, though, it really bugs me that we have this random extra type for the same god, especially because it's never addressed. I feel like the devs gave him a special look on a whim and never bothered to actually care if it made sense in world. I don't like plot holes, and this feels like one in an otherwise well fleshed out lore.

 

It's like when you see a beautiful mural, and it randomly has a big dent in it showing the brick underneath. It's great, until you see that, and then the dent keeps drawing your eye, distracting you from enjoying the full thing. It's a jarring juxtaposition against an otherwise wonderful backdrop, but it draws focus and diminishes the whole thing just by being there.

[house2fly]

He's special to Ondra because she created him specially, because she's a god and she wanted to. The gods in general don't really care about their godlikes. All godlikes are liked in Deadfire (except Skaen and probably Rymrgand) but ocean godlikes are special to the Huana because of their relationship to the ocean. It isn't random. For the existence of an ocean godlike to be a plot hole, it would have to contradict something else in the story or make other events in the story impossible by its presence, neither of which is the case.

[Nssheepster]

Contradict something else in the story... You mean Moon Godlikes?

[Cartoons Plural]

i honestly think the midichlorians is a pretty good parallel to you overthinking this moon/ocean godlike thing. i don't have that many questions. gods have a lot of power, they are vain, fickle, and narcissistic, if they have multiple aspects, guises, duties, why wouldn't they have multiple godlike aspects? ondra is goddess of the moons and the sea and manifests as an angler fish to the huana i mean, how does this exactly contradict the existence of moon godlikes. in a metafictional sense, its also cool and opens up the godlikes to being pretty much anything you can justify relating to one of the gods. this is a perfectly valid reason to do anything in a work of fiction mo nobody needed to explain why klingons developed head ridges beyond "we thought they'd look cooler in the movies"

 

why do godlikes exist is a great question but it didn't necessarily need to be answered in any of the games we have so far but definitely something to keep in the back pocket

Edited January 29, 2019 by Cartoons Plural

[Nssheepster]

The midochlorian example was an example of an answer being provided that made things worse, not better. I agree that we don't need to know why Godlikes exist. I simply disagree that we needed a new Godlike simply because Obsidian decided Moon Godlikes weren't fishy enough. "Because Reasons"... Isn't a good answer, to anything, really. And right now, the reason for Ocean Godlikes exist is either "Because Reasons" or "Because we wanted Moon Godlikes, but Fishier". Neither of which are really great literary excuses, or a good reason to put time and money into development.

 

"Hey you know those assets we already have for people touched by Ondra? Yeah we're not using those, or anything like them, we're gonna spend our energy on making a NEW one. What, a reason? I want FISHY man, that's all. A lore reason? Nah, we don't need one of those in our heavily lore-driven game, players aren't even gonna ask, despite the plot being all about Gods and this guy being an oddity among the God-touched characters." <- Does that sound like a good conversation to have when making a game like this? It doesn't to me, but as is stands that seems to be what went on.

 

Nobody needed to explain Klingon head ridges because they meant basically nothing, only serving to identify Klingons. It also served to make human actors look sufficiently alien, so that they could actually make a science fiction television show without needing an excuse as to why the aliens looked exactly like humans. That's a common issue with science fiction in general, especially at that time, because if the aliens all look human, the show really doesn't function well. You can't tell who is or isn't an alien, you can't really tell what's going on. It was a simple and effective method that accomplished what it needed to, and at the time they didn't have CGI or anything of the sort to provide an alternative.

 

Godlikes, however, DO mean something, because the entire plot of both games revolves around the Gods, so anything to do with the Gods can't be shrugged off. ALL the Gods have multiple duties... But the only with multiple aspects is actually Berath. Ondra is just Ondra. She's called multiple names, they all are, but she's always Ondra at the end of it all. Berath is the only one that actually has separate aspects, the Pallid Knight and the Usher. Again, different names at times, but Berath is the only actually split God. Berath could justify having two Godlikes, easily. Two aspects, two Godlikes. Ondra... Is always Ondra. What's her excuse? If Ondra was a particularly frivolous God, the excuse could be 'Because she felt like it', and it'd be acceptable because it'd fit with a frivolous personality. But Ondra doesn't have any such personality, and as such that doesn't work in the slightest.