Fallout 4 and 76: Cautionary Tales

[Hurlshort]

I don't remember Fallout 4 getting bad reviews, according to Metacritic it charted a bit higher than NV. It certainly sold tremendously, so I'm not sure it is much of a cautionary tale. 

 

Fallout 76 is a much better example if you are looking to show a flaw with Bethesda. Seems a bit early to compare them to Bioware, since it might just be one misstep and it's not clear how 'all-in' they are on it. 

[Zoraptor]

F4 got bad user reviews though nowhere near as bad as F76's obviously. IIRC F4 ended up with almost exactly the same pro review aggregate as FONV, so no bonus for BGS but still good review scores. And yeah, it sold well. There's no chance of Bethesda shutting down any time soon.

[Hurlshort]

User reviews are pretty hard to judge though. Fallout 4 has 80k mostly positive reviews on Steam, while NV has 40k overwhelmingly positive reviews. Metacritic has a bigger gap, but with a lot less reviews. What does all that mean?

 

Now Fallout 76 is a much clearer example of a terrible turn. Holy moly, that thing is getting killed. ME:A also had a very sharp drop compared to the previous games, so I agree that it also fits the definition of a cautionary tale.

[Michael_Galt]

I will say that it used to be, if I saw a Bioware label on the game, I would buy or preorder it.  ME3 was the last Bioware game that I bought, and probably the last that I will buy.  As to Bethesda... who knows?  After what they have done to Fallout... I won't buy anything they put out until AFTER it is out and customer reviews start coming in. 

 

So, right now, I'm waiting on WL3 and Cyberpunk 2077... and the last Deadfire DLC.  Besides that, I haven't heard of any games that really spiked my interest.  I really DO wonder what Obsidian has planned... because they haven't announced anything...  They are almost done with the last DLC, they had to keep things under wraps because of the acquisition... but the real question remains, "What is next?" 

 

I'm guessing they will tell us AFTER the last DLC... right before Christmas?  Looking through the list of Microsoft owned IP... I can't find anything that stands out.  I can only assume that it is an Obsidian IP... So, that makes me very curious.  I doubt that they want to make another POE game this soon after having spent so much time on the 1st, all its expansions and DLC, and now Deadfire and its DLC...  Which means that it is either an original IP that we haven't seen yet, or a follow up to Alpha Protocol?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Studios#Owned_franchises_and_properties

[Chairchucker]

 

I ask, "Can 2 men have sex?". You answer, "Have you ever seen 2 men having sex? I live in Butte, Montana, and I have never seen it." If you lived in San Francisco or West Hollywood, you would probably answer, "Hahaha! Is it POSSIBLE? What rock do you live under?!?"

Yes. Same sex can have sex. Have you heard of gay couples, gay marriages, gay relationships? You may wany to ask that question to the LGBT community but I doubt you will because you know that you will be embaressed. I am not going to tell you how 2 men or women have sex but use your imagination and you may get a glimpse of the reality. Point being that yes, they do, it's just a little different (not to quote Jeanette from VTMR: Bloodlines hehe).

 

This is a super weird response that completely misses the point of the text you're replying to, GJ on being incapable of reading.

 

EDIT: PS Alpha Protocol is the best, fight me.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Chairchucker

[SonicMage117]

 

 

I ask, "Can 2 men have sex?". You answer, "Have you ever seen 2 men having sex? I live in Butte, Montana, and I have never seen it." If you lived in San Francisco or West Hollywood, you would probably answer, "Hahaha! Is it POSSIBLE? What rock do you live under?!?"

Yes. Same sex can have sex. Have you heard of gay couples, gay marriages, gay relationships? You may wany to ask that question to the LGBT community but I doubt you will because you know that you will be embaressed. I am not going to tell you how 2 men or women have sex but use your imagination and you may get a glimpse of the reality. Point being that yes, they do, it's just a little different (not to quote Jeanette from VTMR: Bloodlines hehe).

This is a super weird response that completely misses the point of the text you're replying to, GJ on being incapable of reading.

 

EDIT: PS Alpha Protocol is the best, fight me.

It's only a weird response because you don't agree with it, but really your long wall of a "fact check" on my thread was far stranger and non-relavant.

 

Anyway, his comparison was weird in the first place and my response hit it exactly on the head of the nail. For entertainment's sake, why don't you tell us (as in I and the other forum members) exactly what he meant and what the proper response would be? I cannot wait to hear it

[Chairchucker]

It's only a weird response because you don't agree with it, but really your long wall of a "fact check" on my thread was far stranger and non-relavant.

 

Anyway, his comparison was weird in the first place and my response hit it exactly on the head of the nail. For entertainment's sake, why don't you tell us (as in I and the other forum members) exactly what he meant and what the proper response would be? I cannot wait to hear it

He wasn't legitimately asking if two men can have sex, so answering as if he had been asking that question was a weird response, hope that helps.

[SonicMage117]

 

It's only a weird response because you don't agree with it, but really your long wall of a "fact check" on my thread was far stranger and non-relavant.

Anyway, his comparison was weird in the first place and my response hit it exactly on the head of the nail. For entertainment's sake, why don't you tell us (as in I and the other forum members) exactly what he meant and what the proper response would be? I cannot wait to hear it

 

He wasn't legitimately asking if two men can have sex, so answering as if he had been asking that question was a weird response, hope that helps.

He literally asked it.

 

One day you will learn to read, I hope.

[Chairchucker]

No, it was clearly presented as a hypothetical example.

[SonicMage117]

No, it was clearly presented as a hypothetical example.

And it was an irrelevant one, but even moreso an incorrect one which warranted an validated a response.

[Boeroer]

It's only a weird response because you don't agree with it, but really your long wall of a "fact check" on my thread was far stranger and non-relavant.

No, it's a weird response because you answered to a comparative question as if it was the original one - which it is not. And that's obvious to anybody who can read properly. Doesn't matter if the comparison was fitting or not. If you wrote that weird response as a kind of disciplinary measure then just say so. Still stays weird though.

 

[...] but really your long wall of a "fact check" on my thread was far stranger and non-relavant.

His fact check may have been strange, but it wasn't irrelevant. It just showed that you did a false claim - and a very presumptuous one at that. Since that is not the first time you call your mere opinion facts or truth it was relevant. Especially because you called for a fact check yourself. Edited November 27, 2018 by Boeroer

[SonicMage117]

No, it's a weird response because you answered to a comparative question as if it was the original one - which it is not. And that's obvious to anybody who can read properly. Doesn't matter if the comparison was fitting or not. If you wrote that weird response as a kind of disciplinary measure then just say so. Still stays weird though.

It was more of an educational one, of course he was trolling but maybe some didn't know that and thought he was seriously. Either way, my response wasn't strange, and members of the club should respect the LGBT and their liefestyles.

His fact check may have been strange, but it wasn't irrelevant. It just showed that you did a false claim - and a very presumptuous one at that. Since that is not the first time you call your mere opinion facts or truth it was relevant. Especially because you called for a fact check yourself.

It wasn't relevant because it wasn't 100% true. Assuming that others wouldn't buy the game or didn't agree just because they didn't literally say "I agree" isn't a fact check lol And it certainly doesn't make for a relevant response. Trying to force partial agreement as disagreement never goes well in the real world though it may fly on the forums Idk.

 

Also. There is no need to jump in and defend him thought I do appreciate the vigor

Edited November 27, 2018 by SonicMage117

[Michael_Galt]

I have found that sometimes it is pointless to even attempt to argue with certain people, because they are just arguing for argument's sake, and no other reason.  They aren't arguing in good faith, they just want to argue. 

 

So far, it is a fact that we don't know the next project for either inXile OR Obsidian... who were both acquired by the same company.  Another fact is that both inXile and Obsidian make relatively similar games, and have shared senior members at various points of their existences.  Fact is that both studios previously have relied upon Kickstarters (or something along those lines) to generate money to do the types of games they love.  Fact is that they have both used Unity extensively for several games... ok, maybe only 1 game for inXile.  Fact is neither studio is particularly large, as video game studios go...

 

So... I really hope we hear soon what they will both be doing.  inXile is locked in until they complete WL3, so that means they probably won't be able to work on anything until late next year.  Obsidian... should be "done" with Deadfire by the end of the year, effectively.  That means that the probability that they even COULD work on a joint project is probably pretty low.  Unless Obsidian has their next project completed before the end of next year, which sounds practically impossible. 

 

So, realistically, Obsidian goes and announces new project around Christmas.  It is new IP, and something that they have wanted to do as their DREAM project, but haven't shared any information in the past because they just didn't have the money to make it.  Now that they got the greenlight to do it by Microsoft, as part of their acquisition deal... they are quietly, behind the scenes, preparing all the estimates and doing the initial planning... 

 

As an example, I found a quote from someone at RPGcodex who claimed, "his dream project is a historical rpg in the veins of Darklands, with a classless system and TB combat".  And from JSawyer himself... “I'm taking a break from Pillars for a while, from directing, especially, because I've been working on it for six years,” Sawyer said. “I didn't create Pillars as a dream project for myself. I created it because I felt it was important for the company as a whole to have something that we owned, and that other people could do things with. I really do believe the best part of this is I don't have to work on more Pillars games. Other people at the studio can do that. Actually, I'm excited to work on the tabletop version of Pillars because I'm going crazy with that.”

 

And further...

 

"Despite his preference for independence, Urquhart acknowledged the difficulties of being in charge of making sure hundreds of people had money to eat and pay their bills every month. Another immutable fact of life at Obsidian: Projects always needed funding, and there was no surefire source. “Kickstarter and Fig are great, but there's a limit to the amount of money you can get. Depending on how well you do, you're looking at two-and-a-half, three million to five or six million. That's kind of the range now. If we wanted to make an epic game, that's a thirty, four, fifty, seventy-million-dollar game. That's not coming from Fig. Where's it going to come from?”

 

Urquhart believes Obsidian has another epic RPG—one as massive as Stormlands, if not bigger—in its future. When, not if, the time is right, he will be approaching publishers rather than crowdfunding platforms."

 

https://www.shacknews.com/article/103473/beneath-a-starless-sky-pillars-of-eternity-and-the-infinity-engine-era-of-rpgs?page=28

 

Anyone want to bet on what the new game will be????  Does anyone remember Sawyer speaking about some project that he would love to do... but the stars never aligned, or it got rejected?

Edited November 28, 2018 by Michael_Galt

[Boeroer]

Either way, my response wasn't strange, and members of the club should respect the LGBT and their liefestyles.

 

This is very low Sonic.

 

And I will explain: I mean trying to disingeniously drag a statement into a controversial direction where it's supposed to be torn apart.

 

"Can two men have sex?" - "Why? You hate gay people???"

 

If I didn't explain explicitly what I meant your next move after my statement (that it's low) would have been that you'd accuse me that I said LGBT is low.

 

It's not only disingenuous but also clumsy. If you want to go ahead with this then be my guest. Just know that it paints a picture of a flawed ethical code.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Boeroer

[Michael_Galt]

For the record, in case there IS confusion, my point had nothing to do with the viability of people's abilities to have homosexual sexual relationships... My point was that if you PERSONALLY have never seen publicly homosexual behavior... you might very well ASSUME that it is NOT possible, based on your experiences.  Whereas... if you have been to places where it is VERY openly acceptable, then it SOUNDS like a dumb question. 

 

So... when you answer a question with a question, especially when your question is, "Did you see this happen in this single isolated example?", you are basically doing the same thing.  That is the EQUIVALENT of me going to some place where I KNOW that open homosexual behavior is very uncommon or unaccepted, looking around, and saying, "Do you see any homosexuality here?"  Of course you don't.  But if you used a different example when asking that question (meaning, a place where in fact homosexuality is COMMON and ACCEPTED), then you would naturally get a different answer. 

 

My question was, "Is there any precedent for 2 DIFFERENT video game studios to work on 1 title, TOGETHER?" 

 

I still don't know that answer, and that is why I asked it.  I don't follow the video game industry as a whole, I only follow studios who make cRPGs.  I check Obsidian forums and news regularly.  I stopped checking Bioware news earlier this year.  I don't have any hopes left for Bethesda, but maybe they will surprise me... in several year.  I check inXile and Harebrained and CD Projekt Red.  That is IT. 

 

I don't play games in other genres, and if it was made by a studio other than the ones I listed in the paragraph above... then I probably don't know about it.  So... because I personally am unaware of it having happened... does NOT make it a FACT, that it does NOT happen.  That is what I was trying to ascertain.  And, I can assure you, that I was asking that in good faith.

 

An answer that doesn't answer the question, but instead asks a different question which still doesn't answer the question... is not in any way helpful.  THAT was the point of my "homosexuality" question.  It was that anwering a question with a question is not productive and especially less so when that question would have different answers depending on your personal knowledge and experience. I asked that question, admiting my lack of personal knowledge of the answer, asking if anyone HAD knowledge and an answer.

 

"Are Naughty Dog and Guerilla teaming up on games because they are both owned by Sony?"

 

I have no idea who either of those studios are.  I had no idea that they were acquired by Sony.  I have no idea if they are or are not making a game jointly. 

 

But I can play that game all day, where I "cherry-pick answers" that suggest that something is or is not possible because I know the answer in a single instance. 

 

More examples, that are simpler?  "Can girls have blonde hair?" "Does Kim Kardashian have blonde hair?"  "Is it possible to build an electric car?"  "Is the Ford Mustang an electric car?"  "Can you eat crayons?"  "Have you ever ate crayons?" 

 

I was not asking for a single anecdote.  My question was, "across the industry (more specifically, RPG studios), is there any precedent for this happening?"  That doesn't mean that because it didn't happen in a single instance that it has NEVER happened, NEVER will happen, or CAN'T happen.  Saying, "To the best of my knowlege, it has never happened", or "I know of no such examples", or "Legally, they are not allowed to", or "I have worked in the videogaming industry 20 years, and have never heard of it happening"... THOSE are legitimate answers.  They state your level of knowledge and experience.  Or, you could answer with some economic study which SHOWS that there has never been a cRPG that was jointly developed by 2 different studios... that would be using facts and evidence.   There is a big difference between all those responses. 

 

But... on a separate note... I really AM excited to see what it is that this secret project is... because those were direct quotes from the 2 biggest head honchos at Obsidian...

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Did somebody say Fallout 76?

 

It was ****e to begin with xD. 

[Michael_Galt]

Well... it looks like Christmas is coming early this year... December 5th and big reveal time! Woot woot!  Especially because it will be Fallout in space?  Just tell me that there will still be magic and I'm sold.  Well, tentatively sold.  I do want to hear the details, but the very small teases released in that announcement... indicate some pretty awesome stuff. 

 

My two favorite Obsidian games are F:NV and KOTOR 2... so, space Fallout basically sounds like those games got together and made a baby.  Knights of the Old Fallout?  KOF? :D  The story is that a massive nuclear war nearly wiped out the human race on Earth, but enough of us were in outer space colonies or escaped, and are now forging a new future.  Old animosities and regrets remain... and there is word that there are strange things leaving Earth that can't be explained.  Just let me play as a damn robot or cyborg already!

[Boeroer]

"Fallout of the Old Republic" would be my favorite.

 

[Cpl Halsbart]

What does the op have to do with Fallout 4 and 76 cautionary tales? Fallout 4 outsold all ten Skyrims combined. People who actually paid to have online-mode for Fallout 4, instead of waiting for the inevitable fan mod, deserve a little heck for their imbecility. People need to remember their relationship to all these marketing people running the industry has nothing to do with delivering great games, so just never purchase day one to be sure. Never purchase on brand or company logo recognition, that's my cautionary tale.

[bigcrazewolf]

FONV

KOTOR

Stick of Truth

 

I'm really looking forward to the new IP announcement 

[Michael_Galt]

What does the op have to do with Fallout 4 and 76 cautionary tales? Fallout 4 outsold all ten Skyrims combined. People who actually paid to have online-mode for Fallout 4, instead of waiting for the inevitable fan mod, deserve a little heck for their imbecility. People need to remember their relationship to all these marketing people running the industry has nothing to do with delivering great games, so just never purchase day one to be sure. Never purchase on brand or company logo recognition, that's my cautionary tale.

 

I was not talking about economic viability in this post at all.  Because Fallout 4 "sold better" does not make it a "better" game.  That is the result of aggressive and successful marketing.  Lots of inferior products outsell better products because the inferior products are marketed better.  You can go to any aggregate score website, and F:NV scores better among consumers than does Fallout 4.  That is what makes it a better game. 

 

Given the fact that nearly 40% of the people who responded to this poll listed F:NV as their #1 favorite game by Obsidian... it is clear that people here want more games like F:NV than Fallout 4.  I don't think that people work at Obsidian because they hope to become multi-millionaires, they work there to work on the types of games that they like and enjoy.  Provided that they are able to afford the things they enjoy in life, they are probably content to not be making boatloads of money, but being able to make great cRPGs.  I'm all about capitalism and ambition, but sometimes you have to pick your values over potentially making more money.

[Skie Nightfall]

1. PoE by faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar

2. F:NV

3. Deadfire

4. KotOR2

Edited December 1, 2018 by Skie Nightfall

[Michael_Galt]

I just hope that this poll is useful to Obsidian.  While it is clearly not a huge sample size, 60 people is not a small number. 

 

This poll CLEARLY shows that people consider F:NV to be, if not the "best" Obsidian game, their personal favorite.  It also shows that, together, the POE games do quite well, but taken individually, yes, most people seem to prefer Deadfire (roughly 25% more total votes for Deadfire).  It also effectively shows that KOTOR 2 still ranks within the top 3 Obsidian games for most people, with nearly 50% choosing it for one of their favorite Obsidian games (and this is despite the fact that it was released over 10 years ago). 

 

Hopefully more and more people respond so that the overall sample size grows.  That way, as Obsidian is making design decisions for this new game... they can base those decisions off of customer feedback, instead of pure supposition.

[Cpl Halsbart]

 

What does the op have to do with Fallout 4 and 76 cautionary tales? Fallout 4 outsold all ten Skyrims combined. People who actually paid to have online-mode for Fallout 4, instead of waiting for the inevitable fan mod, deserve a little heck for their imbecility. People need to remember their relationship to all these marketing people running the industry has nothing to do with delivering great games, so just never purchase day one to be sure. Never purchase on brand or company logo recognition, that's my cautionary tale.

 

I was not talking about economic viability in this post at all.  Because Fallout 4 "sold better" does not make it a "better" game.  That is the result of aggressive and successful marketing.  Lots of inferior products outsell better products because the inferior products are marketed better.  You can go to any aggregate score website, and F:NV scores better among consumers than does Fallout 4.  That is what makes it a better game. 

 

Given the fact that nearly 40% of the people who responded to this poll listed F:NV as their #1 favorite game by Obsidian... it is clear that people here want more games like F:NV than Fallout 4.  I don't think that people work at Obsidian because they hope to become multi-millionaires, they work there to work on the types of games that they like and enjoy.  Provided that they are able to afford the things they enjoy in life, they are probably content to not be making boatloads of money, but being able to make great cRPGs.  I'm all about capitalism and ambition, but sometimes you have to pick your values over potentially making more money.

 

It isn't clear in the op's first paragraph what the point of your post was, its buried somewhere in the body of the thing. In fact, I'm not seeing a cogent idea anywhere, until the fourth or fifth paragraph, where you tell me the point is "I like F:NV". Your real idea is even further away, spread across two or three more paragraphs. The title is at least misleading, don't you agree? I tried to find the lesson in your op, couldn't find one. My cautionary tale's better, I think. You can't expect people will meander with you through a haphazard formatted, stream-of-consciousness post. I mean, anybody can make a poll what their favorite obsi game is. You should have just stopped there m8. Also, I have no idea why you're talking about capitalism and multi millionaires in response.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Cpl Halsbart

[fxluk]

For me list really lacks an expansion for NWN2 - Mask of the Betrayer.

 

NWN2 itself, was like OK, nothing more, but MOTW on the other hand, had a great story.

Definitely in my TOP 10 RPG games.