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Eothas is Thaos (not literally, duh)


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#1
Wormerine

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Plaything through Deadfire again, I am struck by how similar Eothas is to Thaos.  That sort of came, after this conversation:
Hg1eTNb.jpg
"I am sacrificing lives from this generation for the benefits of those who have not yet been born".

It is very similar argument to argument Thaos did, when confronted about causing Waidwen's Legacy:

"The heart of this country has skipped a beat. Nothing more."

 

Essencially both a doing quite horrible things to do what they believe is best for humanity.

As a bonus this is why I love how Obs does DLC for Deadfire:

ViLId1c.jpg
Cool to see this line, after seeing such thing in more detail in SSS.


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#2
Hulk'O'Saurus

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Well... 

 

One could make an arguement for it, I guess. I think the impression is strenghtened from the way Eothas is made to deliver his lines in general. Would have appreciated a bit more down-to-earth stuff from him, though :)

 

Like--'This is what I'm doing and that's why I'm doing it. Deal with it or move out of the way.'  



#3
Tarlonniel

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It's not surprising that Eothas is no better than the Engwithan souls he's made out of. When you accuse Galawain of being a jerk in SSS, his response is basically, "Of course I am, because you are. Duh." And when you give kith a bunch of power and set them above consequences... well...


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#4
Ophiuchus

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I had the same impression from that exact scene.



#5
Verde

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Everything's all good and dandy until you start sacrificing ppl for your grand plan:p

#6
Wormerine

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Everything's all good and dandy until you start sacrificing ppl for your grand plan:p

It's all for the greater good


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#7
Heijoushin

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When you ask Rymrgand why he's such a jerk in BoW, his response is "It's my nature." I chuckled a little at that. 

 

I don't know... I suppose both Thaos and Eothas follow the "end justifies the means" school of thought. And neither of them make a great argument for their goals. And their names have similar sounds. Okay, I guess they are pretty similar.  


Edited by Heijoushin, 06 October 2018 - 04:37 AM.


#8
omgFIREBALLS

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No, he is Daenerys Targaryen. Please keep up.


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#9
Wormerine

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No, he is Daenerys Targaryen. Please keep up.

haha! Good one. Not really a GoT fan. I gave up halfway through the first episode, when mentioned character was stripped naked by her brother with a comment: "Oh my, how have you grown up." More titties within 15 minutes of the show than I had a patience to handle. I know, it gets better later on. 


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#10
quaggan

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 The similarity in names got me thinking. Going from 'Thaos', Eothas literally got an extra E and moved O a little to the front. Considering Avellone's previous works on Planescape Torment and KotOR 2

Spoiler
, it makes me wonder if it was intentional.



#11
house2fly

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Chris Avellone wasn't involved in naming either character, so who knows
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#12
quaggan

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 I didn't know that. Thank you for clearing this up!



#13
Tick

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I just realized this. Something interesting about Eothas acting similar to Thaos - and the other gods, and many main characters/playable characters - in his willingness to sacrifice other lives for what he thinks is the greater good, but for inverse reasons.

Thaos behaved that way to control kith and how they thought, and maintain the faith of the gods and what they were. Eothas behaved that way to give kith the chance to make a choice to be independent or equal or not, and to completely break what everyone thought about gods. Even his choice to die (the first time) served that.

Cool parallels! Both cases really bring up the question of, ethically, how much does method matter versus intent versus consequences.

I also think it's interesting how both react when you call them out on their choices.

Edited by Tick, 12 October 2018 - 08:43 PM.

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#14
Rolandur

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The only thing I was thinking through-out this entire story line is before the Engwithans and the gods there must of been a way people were born with souls in order for the ancients to become gods. They never once touched on this and the story fell to pieces for me the more Eothas talked about fixing the problem but there may be consequences and mortals must find their way... and still never mentioned a single thing about how it worked prior to them all becoming gods. It's quite a major plot point that requires revelation.


Edited by Rolandur, 14 October 2018 - 09:02 PM.


#15
Tick

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The only thing I was thinking through-out this entire story line is before the Engwithans and the gods there must of been a way people were born with souls in order for the ancients to become gods. They never once touched on this and the story fell to pieces for me the more Eothas talked about fixing the problem but there may be consequences and mortals must find their way... and still never mentioned a single thing about how it worked prior to them all becoming gods. It's quite a major plot point that requires revelation.

There was an explanation, but it got cut in editing and they didn't realize it was an issue until after release. There are a couple posts from the devs on this.

Explanation itself:
The reincarnation cycle always existed, but the Engwithins modified/rigged it to work the way they wanted. One of the things the modified wheel does is feed the soul pieces kith shed to the gods.

But breaking the wheel doesn't fix the original process. As Alex Scokel explained, it is *similar* to installing a dam on a river and then breaking the dam. Breaking the dam doesn't fix the river.

So when Eothas breaks the wheel, he is
is forcing the gods and kith into the same predicament. Life will cease to exist and the gods will die if they don't fix the cycle.

Next part is a bit of speculation - I believe Eothas' intent was to make kith realize what the gods really are (not all powerful and immortal and flawless beings), give kith a choice about whether they want the gods at all, and give them a more equal relationship where the two might have to cooperate together to fix things.

Edited by Tick, 15 October 2018 - 07:54 AM.

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#16
Wormerine

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The only thing I was thinking through-out this entire story line is before the Engwithans and the gods there must of been a way people were born with souls in order for the ancients to become gods. They never once touched on this and the story fell to pieces for me the more Eothas talked about fixing the problem but there may be consequences and mortals must find their way... and still never mentioned a single thing about how it worked prior to them all becoming gods. It's quite a major plot point that requires revelation.

Overal, I feel Eothas story could use a bit more of exploration, that is why I was so happy to see devs dip into it in Beast of Winter. Confusion as to what breaking of the Wheel will actually do, was probably my main criticism when the credits rolled (sort of: "BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN...?!").

Josh talked about it in this tumblr post:
https://jesawyer.tum...efore-the-wheel

Apparently, there was a detailed explanation at some point but it was cut. I hope for a more detailed explanation to appear in the 3rd DLC and it should continue the Berkana's research storyline, were the presence of "The Wheel" was heavily foreshadowed. 


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