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Melee weapons help


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#1
Lampros

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Two main questions:

 

1. Is it better to have a 2H set-up or a dual wield set-up for a DPS character?

 

2. What type of weapons are generally considered best for each set-ups - 1H, dual wield, 2H?

 

For instance, I recall sabers were considered the best DPS weapons among 1H in the original PoE game.



#2
hilfazer

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Guys, please consider NOT talking unique items (unless OP specifically ask about them) to not spoil more than neccessary.

Discovering things is a part of what we pay for.

 

Thanks.


Edited by hilfazer, 12 September 2018 - 09:24 AM.


#3
AndreaColombo

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1. Broadly speaking, 2H and DW are fairly close for auto-attacks; DW is better if you have a lot of Full Attack abilities. Patch 2.1 applies a penalty to your damage if you perform a Full Attack with DW, but IIRC people did the math and DW still comes out ahead (just not as overwhelmingly as before the nerf.)

 

2. Sabres are still damage kings if you DW. Monk's fists are also very powerful. For 2H it really depends on your play style; great sword, estoc, and 2H axe are all very good choices.


Edited by AndreaColombo, 12 September 2018 - 09:27 AM.

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#4
Boeroer

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For instance, I recall sabers were considered the best DPS weapons among 1H in the original PoE game.

Actually sabres were not the best dps option in PoE (unless you played a rogue who took plenty of Full Attacks).

 

But anyways... weird mechanical specialities of certain uniques aside: all in all the weapons of Deadfire are pretty balanced. What does disappoint with certain weapons is their modal ability that you get when you pick a weapon proficiency.

 

For example I value the modals of flails, clubs and expecially morning stars over most other weapon modals.


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#5
Mocker22

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Almost anything can work, but without talking about specific uniques it is tough. Many builds would focus on a specific mechanic of a unique weapon, and some weapon types are significantly under-represented still, albeit most have at least 1 very powerful option.


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#6
Lampros

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1. Broadly speaking, 2H and DW are fairly close for auto-attacks; DW is better if you have a lot of Full Attack abilities. Patch 2.1 applies a penalty to your damage if you perform a Full Attack with DW, but IIRC people did the math and DW still comes out ahead (just not as overwhelmingly as before the nerf.)

 

2. Sabres are still damage kings if you DW. Monk's fists are also very powerful. For 2H it really depends on your play style; great sword, estoc, and 2H axe are all very good choices.

 

Thanks. It's a good thing the devs balanced things out a bit then. Are there any game-breaking uniques that I should be aware of that would give the particular type of weapon an edge?

 

 

 

For instance, I recall sabers were considered the best DPS weapons among 1H in the original PoE game.

Actually sabres were not the best dps option in PoE (unless you played a rogue who took plenty of Full Attacks).

 

But anyways... weird mechanical specialities of certain uniques aside: all in all the weapons of Deadfire are pretty balanced. What does disappoint with certain weapons is their modal ability that you get when you pick a weapon proficiency.

 

For example I value the modals of flails, clubs and expecially morning stars over most other weapon modals.

 

 

First, then so what are these over-powered uniques I should build my character around? ;)

 

Second, let me get a clarification on modals: It seems like all of them involve one benefit and one malus, correct? So I should not necessarily use them at all times?

 

 

Almost anything can work, but without talking about specific uniques it is tough. Many builds would focus on a specific mechanic of a unique weapon, and some weapon types are significantly under-represented still, albeit most have at least 1 very powerful option.

 

Again, as I asked of the above gentlemen: Which are these special uniques? ;)



#7
Lampros

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Oh, also, guys:

 

Most of the ranged DPS builds I've seen involve either guns or crossbows, rather than bows. So are bows then far weaker relative to their power in PoE1? Or are they still viable? And what's changed that caused make people so overwhelmingly favor guns and crossbows?



#8
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Guns have some pros that are esp. important on PotD: they have higher PEN. They also have no recovery but only reload. Recovery can't be canceled but reload can. So for example: if you shoot an enemy with a gun and then see that a party member needs healing you can cancel reload and heal at once. Won't work with a bow. Reload takes longer though.

In terms of dps I think Aamiira's Legacy is best atm - it's a Hunting Bow.

Very good bows: Aamiira's Legacy, Essence Interruptor, Frostseeker

Very good guns: Red Hand, Kirchen Stove, Hand Mortar + Fire in the Hole (dual wield Ed), Scordeo's Trophy.

You can look up all uniques in the gamepedia wiki. But use Google to search because the search on site is kind of stupid. Like "unique weapons Deadfire" or so. On the bottom of each page the categories are listed. Those are best to visit for certain uniques (Deadfire pollaxes and so on).

Edited by Boeroer, 12 September 2018 - 08:16 PM.

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#9
Haplok

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For two handed Estocs and Battleaxes have the best uniques IMO (yes, regular battleaxes are 1-handed, but there are two pretty awesome two-handed uniques). Both of those weapon categories offer some aoe splash damage options, which are quite potent if coupled with rogue sneak attack modifiers, weapon quality bonuses and might bonuses.

 

Estocs also offer great Penetration and the uniques provide attack speed and accuracy boosts. Or a significant boost to half of your attributes - after first kill.

 

Amra battleaxe aoe effect is triggered on crit (plus a chance to Frenzy on kill), while Eager Blade estoc is triggered when hitting near death enemies (plus accuracy and speed bonuses on crit) and Engoliero de Espirs estoc cool effects are triggered on kill.


Edited by Haplok, 12 September 2018 - 10:38 PM.

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#10
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Amra's "insta-kill near death enemies" is kind of great with Blood Thirst I guess? Also with Cleaving Stance maybe?

You can def. skip Finishing Blow, Bloody Slaughter and Death Godlike when using it. ;)

Edited by Boeroer, 12 September 2018 - 10:55 PM.

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#11
Ascaloth

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Alright, let's see. Some of the unique weapons I've used the most;

 

Early Game

 

Lord Darryn's Voulge (Pollaxe, soulbound) - One of the few weapons in Deadfire to have an elemental damage type (Shock), like Bittercut in the first game. Has good synergy with Barbarian Carnage, and is a powerful stat stick for certain Druid builds.

 

Wahai Poraga (Pollaxe) - One of the first uniques you can get that targets multiple enemies with each attack, works well with one-man-army builds.

 

Rannig's Wrath (Rapier) - Probably the single most accurate melee weapon in Deadfire, having an additional Accuracy bonus on top of the innate Rapier bonus and the modal.

 

Min's Fortune (Sabre) - One of the first unique Sabres you can find, it's a Crit-focused type of weapon. Think of it as the successor to Resolution.

 

Duskfall (Sword) - Starts off good as is, and has enchantment options that make it very versatile.

 

Whispers of the Endless Paths (Greatsword) - Likely to be the very first Greatsword you can get. Lower base damage than all other Greatswords, but hits multiple enemies and comes with very good enchantment options.

 

Mid-Game

 

Tarn's Respite (Sabre) - Has a Deflection-draining enchantment option, which is very useful.

 

Pukestabber (Dagger) - Figure out how to work around its quirks, and it's integral to achieving the fastest attack speed in the game.

 

Eager Blade (Estoc) - Pretty nice enchants, and probably the best AR-breaker you can get until late-game.

 

Stalker's Patience (Spear) - Ideal for tanks due to the +Engagement modal, and Wounding gives it high damage potential.

 

Modwyr (Sword, soulbound) - Not spectacular damage-wise, but it's one of the few ways to achieve Immunity from Intellect Afflictions (aka Confused, Charmed, Dominated).

 

Squid's Grasp (Rapier) - Not as outright accurate as Rannig's Wrath, but comes with some very good defensive options.

 

The Willbreaker (Morningstar) - An ideal option for Barbarian Brute Force builds.

 

Grave Calling (Sabre) - Useful against Vessels in particular.

 

Late Game

 

Voidwheel (Greatsword) - One of the highest damage potential amongst 2H weapons, but watch out for the self-damage.

 

Engoliero do Espirs (Estoc) - Excellent against crowds thanks to the Ghost Blades proc.

 

Kapana Taga (Club) - Has the fairly rare Slash/Crush damage combo, comes with very good enchantments for One Versus Many situations.

 

Oathbreaker's End (Battle Axe) - Does brutal damage, especially against crowds if given the right enchantment.

 

Scordeo's Edge (Sabre) - Probably the single best 1H melee weapon in the game, if you opt for the enchantment option that gives the wielder a chance to straight up ignore Recovery for a set amount of time.


Edited by Ascaloth, 13 September 2018 - 01:58 AM.

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#12
AndreaColombo

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BotEP is also pretty good and can be had early game.
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#13
Haplok

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BotEP is also pretty good and can be had early game.

 

Yeah, it's good. Strong enchants for speed and accuracy. But you can reforge either Blade of the Endless Paths (estoc) or Whispers of the Endless Paths (greatsword) - provided that you have a PoE1 history where you reforged the BotEP.

 

BotEP is an excellent single-target weapon. WotEP is an interesting weapon which attacks in a cone - but at a significantly lower damage (but can also special attack/afflict/DoT several enemies at once). Wahai Poraga (pollaxe) is another option for hitting up to 4 surrounding targets at once (friend or foe in this case) - but also at low individual damage.

 

Personally I prefer weapons which do full damage to primary target and have nice aoe damage splashes (Eager Blade and Amra Axe, late game Engoliero de Espirs, Oathbreaker Axe; I suppose Lord Darryn's Voulge in the hands of a Barbarian also counts).


Edited by Haplok, 13 September 2018 - 01:47 AM.

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#14
Haplok

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Amra's "insta-kill near death enemies" is kind of great with Blood Thirst I guess? Also with Cleaving Stance maybe?

You can def. skip Finishing Blow, Bloody Slaughter and Death Godlike when using it. ;)

 

Yeah, Cleaving Stance is really sweet with it. And I'm sure Blood Thirst also, but that comes much later.

 

Finishing/Devastating Blow would still be pretty useful, the damage starts to scale from Blooded. And many enemies have way more then 200 HP...

And Bloody Slaughter is a nice enabler for Barb Blow refund. Anyway both are only relevant to primary targets (not entirely sure about Slaughter), while the slay effect works in aoe.


Edited by Haplok, 13 September 2018 - 02:19 AM.


#15
Mocker22

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I was playing a swashbuckler intending to use Wahai Paroga as my 2h for crowds, but I'm really looking forward to trying out Amra. Tank a group of mobs with Persistent distraction and you should crit often enough to proc frequently. Also going to use Thaos' Headdress for more acc. Then the proc gets bonuses from sneak attack, high might, etc. Can't wait to get this guy up a little bit and start taking advantage of Mob Stance and Reckless Brigandine.

 

Unbroken/Trickster is fast shaping up to be one of my favorite combos. Its so versatile! Don't have a whole group to tank? Switch to Stalker's Patience for big bonuses vs. flanked(which is always) and a nice little raw dot on top of Deep Wounds, Gouging Strike and Toxic Strike....mmm can't wait.

 

Side note, I'm wondering which 2h axe will end up putting out more dps on groups of mobs?



#16
Lampros

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Guns have some pros that are esp. important on PotD: they have higher PEN. They also have no recovery but only reload. Recovery can't be canceled but reload can. So for example: if you shoot an enemy with a gun and then see that a party member needs healing you can cancel reload and heal at once. Won't work with a bow. Reload takes longer though.

In terms of dps I think Aamiira's Legacy is best atm - it's a Hunting Bow.

Very good bows: Aamiira's Legacy, Essence Interruptor, Frostseeker

Very good guns: Red Hand, Kirchen Stove, Hand Mortar + Fire in the Hole (dual wield Ed), Scordeo's Trophy.

You can look up all uniques in the gamepedia wiki. But use Google to search because the search on site is kind of stupid. Like "unique weapons Deadfire" or so. On the bottom of each page the categories are listed. Those are best to visit for certain uniques (Deadfire pollaxes and so on).

 

Thanks as usual. You are, as always, a treasure trove.

 

Since we are on ranged weapons, I have another question: It seems like I am not seeing any rod builds for either Priests or Wizards any longer; it appears that every Priest or Wizard is some sort of caster/melee hybrid. Two questions emerge from this. First, why is this the case? Does this mean the PoE 1 rod builds are no longer viable? Second, if even casters are set up as melees or melee hybrids, then is ranged damage not needed at all in this game?

 

This is a very important issue for me, because I like what is familiar, and I'd like to maintain my PoE1 group set-up as much as possible.

 

 

Alright, let's see. Some of the unique weapons I've used the most;

 

Early Game

 

Lord Darryn's Voulge (Pollaxe, soulbound) - One of the few weapons in Deadfire to have an elemental damage type (Shock), like Bittercut in the first game. Has good synergy with Barbarian Carnage, and is a powerful stat stick for certain Druid builds.

 

Wahai Poraga (Pollaxe) - One of the first uniques you can get that targets multiple enemies with each attack, works well with one-man-army builds.

 

Rannig's Wrath (Rapier) - Probably the single most accurate melee weapon in Deadfire, having an additional Accuracy bonus on top of the innate Rapier bonus and the modal.

 

Min's Fortune (Sabre) - One of the first unique Sabres you can find, it's a Crit-focused type of weapon. Think of it as the successor to Resolution.

 

Duskfall (Sword) - Starts off good as is, and has enchantment options that make it very versatile.

 

Whispers of the Endless Paths (Greatsword) - Likely to be the very first Greatsword you can get. Lower base damage than all other Greatswords, but hits multiple enemies and comes with very good enchantment options.

 

Mid-Game

 

Tarn's Respite (Sabre) - Has a Deflection-draining enchantment option, which is very useful.

 

Pukestabber (Dagger) - Figure out how to work around its quirks, and it's integral to achieving the fastest attack speed in the game.

 

Eager Blade (Estoc) - Pretty nice enchants, and probably the best AR-breaker you can get until late-game.

 

Stalker's Patience (Spear) - Ideal for tanks due to the +Engagement modal, and Wounding gives it high damage potential.

 

Modwyr (Sword, soulbound) - Not spectacular damage-wise, but it's one of the few ways to achieve Immunity from Intellect Afflictions (aka Confused, Charmed, Dominated).

 

Squid's Grasp (Rapier) - Not as outright accurate as Rannig's Wrath, but comes with some very good defensive options.

 

The Willbreaker (Morningstar) - An ideal option for Barbarian Brute Force builds.

 

Grave Calling (Sabre) - Useful against Vessels in particular.

 

Late Game

 

Voidwheel (Greatsword) - One of the highest damage potential amongst 2H weapons, but watch out for the self-damage.

 

Engoliero do Espirs (Estoc) - Excellent against crowds thanks to the Ghost Blades proc.

 

Kapana Taga (Club) - Has the fairly rare Slash/Crush damage combo, comes with very good enchantments for One Versus Many situations.

 

Oathbreaker's End (Battle Axe) - Does brutal damage, especially against crowds if given the right enchantment.

 

Scordeo's Edge (Sabre) - Probably the single best 1H melee weapon in the game, if you opt for the enchantment option that gives the wielder a chance to straight up ignore Recovery for a set amount of time.

 

Wow, that's comprehensive indeed! Thank you!

 

 

BotEP is also pretty good and can be had early game.

 

Yeah, it's good. Strong enchants for speed and accuracy. But you can reforge either Blade of the Endless Paths (estoc) or Whispers of the Endless Paths (greatsword) - provided that you have a PoE1 history where you reforged the BotEP.


 

 

A bit confused. Do I need a "PoE 1 history" to use this weapon at all? I don't recall if I reforged it or not.



#17
Haplok

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Well, either you configure a PoE1 history at the start, pick one of the pre-generated ones or import an end-game save from PoE1.

 

For me there are 2 important points: reforging Blade of the Endless Paths (which will end up in pieces anyway... but at least you'll have them) and fate of Devil of Caroc. If you want arguably the best armor in the game, then make her spare Harmke/die/sacrifice her.


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#18
Lampros

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Well, either you configure a PoE1 history at the start, pick one of the pre-generated ones or import an end-game save from PoE1.

 

For me there are 2 important points: reforging Blade of the Endless Paths (which will end up in pieces anyway... but at least you'll have them) and fate of Devil of Caroc. If you want arguably the best armor in the game, then make her spare Harmke/die/sacrifice her.

 

Hmm, I didn't even play with the Devil, I think. What can I do in the pre-generation then?

 

Also, if I do pre-generate rather than port, then what are the important stat boosting perks I need to ensure to carry over?



#19
Haplok

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The possibilities include sacrificing on of your party members to Skaen's Blood Pool and absorbing the souls from Heritage Hill to increase your power.

I played a good character, so I don't pick those evil options.


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#20
Mocker22

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Lampros, I think the reason your seeing mostly hybrid builds listed, is not many people would make say a single class wizard build because they are quite straight forward. There are some out there for sure, but the multiclassing hybrids is where builds tend to get more complicated/unique.

 

If you want to use rods, consider using the modal ability to hit in an aoe, along with attacks that apply status effects to cause said effect in an Aoe.


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