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One of the main issues with the first game was character progression for completionist - you could easily hit the max level with dozens of hours of content left (thus, leaving you with no character growth for a large portion of the game). You could get around this by modifying the code or using a mod, but we really shouldn't have to. Unfortunately, the same issue was yet again present in the sequel (why this wasn't addressed is beyond me). One solution to this problem is an increase in the level cap. Is there any information indicating whether it will be increased? If not, completionist will probably hit the max level at 50% game completion, which is really poor game design (I've never seen such a thing before, hopefully this isn't the first...).

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Meh. What doesn't help, though, is that nothing after maxing out is actually hard to kill to warrant level progression. Even on PotD w/ scaling up.

 

It is kind of nice to settle into a groove with the skills and abilities one has unlocked. Really, I kind of wish leveling up was inhibited a bit. Or better adversary scaling, either one would do. I mean, I know I don't HAVE to level up. But that's just crazy talk.

 

Joe

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I find when I hit max level that I start to rapidly lose interest in a game; I almost prefer it where it's impossible to hit max level no matter how much content is completed (better yet is a soft cap). Unless the story is absolutely amazing, I'll drop the game like a bad habit. Which is why I'll use an exp modifier if necessary, although I don't think I should have to alter a fundamental experience of the game.

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Increasing the level cap is literally free, there are mods that do it. New abilities would cost, due to having new animations and visual effects, and of course they'd need to further address enemy difficulty, but the alternative is ending up with a full game and three DLCs where players hit the level cap halfway through.

 

Of course, the benefit of having more abilities is that enemies can use them too...

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Increasing the level cap is literally free, there are mods that do it. New abilities would cost, due to having new animations and visual effects, and of course they'd need to further address enemy difficulty, but the alternative is ending up with a full game and three DLCs where players hit the level cap halfway through.

 

Of course, the benefit of having more abilities is that enemies can use them too...

Right. My bad for assuming that the people clamoring for an increased level cap wanted more than to see the little number go up.

 

Yes, the cost of developing new abilities, creating animations for them, several QA passes for balance, a narrative pass or two for higher level skill checks, etc is what I was referring to.

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Increasing the level cap is literally free, there are mods that do it. New abilities would cost, due to having new animations and visual effects, and of course they'd need to further address enemy difficulty, but the alternative is ending up with a full game and three DLCs where players hit the level cap halfway through.

Of course, the benefit of having more abilities is that enemies can use them too...

Right. My bad for assuming that the people clamoring for an increased level cap wanted more than to see the little number go up.

Yes, the cost of developing new abilities, creating animations for them, several QA passes for balance, a narrative pass or two for higher level skill checks, etc is what I was referring to.

And? The level cap was increased for both expansions in the first game, I don't think it's a stretch for people to expect it here as well, especially with the poor level pacing.
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Increasing the level cap is literally free, there are mods that do it. New abilities would cost, due to having new animations and visual effects, and of course they'd need to further address enemy difficulty, but the alternative is ending up with a full game and three DLCs where players hit the level cap halfway through.

Of course, the benefit of having more abilities is that enemies can use them too...

Right. My bad for assuming that the people clamoring for an increased level cap wanted more than to see the little number go up.

Yes, the cost of developing new abilities, creating animations for them, several QA passes for balance, a narrative pass or two for higher level skill checks, etc is what I was referring to.

And? The level cap was increased for both expansions in the first game, I don't think it's a stretch for people to expect it here as well, especially with the poor level pacing.

 

PoE1 was designed for a mid-level party. The DLC extended that slightly to level 16. Deadfire goes to level 20 out of the box. 

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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it went up 4 levels on paper but in reality only introduced 1 new level of abilities. You only get an extra tier of powers/ spells when you get 9th level stuff

 

That is hardly "out of the box"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_the_box_(feature)

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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No, I'm pretty sure "out of the box" means "out of the box". 

 

Which is not the same thing as "outside of the box" (which would have made my previous post incoherent).

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Increasing the level cap is literally free, there are mods that do it. New abilities would cost, due to having new animations and visual effects, and of course they'd need to further address enemy difficulty, but the alternative is ending up with a full game and three DLCs where players hit the level cap halfway through.

 

Of course, the benefit of having more abilities is that enemies can use them too...

Right. My bad for assuming that the people clamoring for an increased level cap wanted more than to see the little number go up.

 

Yes, the cost of developing new abilities, creating animations for them, several QA passes for balance, a narrative pass or two for higher level skill checks, etc is what I was referring to.

 

 

It's a psychological effect. Seeing a little number go up would be sufficient to keep some people actively engaged in the game when they would otherwise loose interest.

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Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!

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Maybe they could add some "prestige levels" with new common features for all classes ?

The Multiclass/Single Class balance is already complicated, I'm not sure letting Single Class (Edit : oups, I meant Multiclass) access to Tier VIII won't throw the fragile equilibrium from the window.

Edited by Elric Galad
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Increasing the level cap is literally free, there are mods that do it. New abilities would cost, due to having new animations and visual effects, and of course they'd need to further address enemy difficulty, but the alternative is ending up with a full game and three DLCs where players hit the level cap halfway through.

 

Of course, the benefit of having more abilities is that enemies can use them too...

Right. My bad for assuming that the people clamoring for an increased level cap wanted more than to see the little number go up.

 

Yes, the cost of developing new abilities, creating animations for them, several QA passes for balance, a narrative pass or two for higher level skill checks, etc is what I was referring to.

 

 

It's a psychological effect. Seeing a little number go up would be sufficient to keep some people actively engaged in the game when they would otherwise loose interest.

 

Meanwhile, I hit level 18 when I reached Ukaizo in my last playthrough. *shrug*

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Maybe they could add some "prestige levels" with new common features for all classes ?

 

The Multiclass/Single Class balance is already complicated, I'm not sure letting Single Class access to Tier VIII won't throw the fragile equilibrium from the window.

I suspect that we'll see this in PoE3

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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When i think about games like Elex, where no level cap exists, it's pretty neat, because you feel rewarded to kill enemies and it is not a waste of time like in deadfire later on. And to nerf the xp  gain is just not good, because we allready know how it is, with the full xp gain. Now it would disappoint many ppl they allready played the games for long.

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I'm in kind of the opposite field here (which by now should come as no surprise.)

 

If I can't hit the cap, or I can only hit it with one battle left, I end up frustrated cause I don't get to enjoy the power I've spent the entire game building up. As I mentioned in other similar threads, I enjoy being at the apex of my character's power a lot more than I enjoy the process of achieving it. Appreciate that YMMV.

 

I agree that maxing out with so much content left is a problem, if—as is unfortunately the case with Deadfire—said content isn't balanced around a maxed-out party. If I hit the level cap half-way through but the remaining half is challenging, that's quite literally the best I can ask for.

 

I'm not against an option to slow down XP gains for people who would rather not max out early, but it'd have to be an option—if it was standard, it would have a significant adverse impact on my enjoyment of the game.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire

 

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Even without any DLC, I hit max level with something like 25% content left, which is already highly questionable.  Add 3 DLC and don't change the cap or leveling rate, and you'd end up with a situation in which someone would hit max level with half the content in the game left.  This is a ludicrous result that no single-player game that I have played in the last two decades has ended up with, including POE 1.  I'm sure some of the people in this thread think it's fine, but I really believe you guys are the vocal minority.  It's objectively poor game design in a genre rooted in player progression.

Edited by ilsendoodle
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Even without any DLC, I hit max level with something like 25% content left, which is already highly questionable.  Add 3 DLC and don't change the cap or leveling rate, and you'd end up with a situation in which someone would hit max level with half the content in the game left.  This is a ludicrous result that no single-player game that I have played in the last two decades has ended up with, including POE 1.  I'm sure some of the people in this thread think it's fine, but I really believe you guys are the vocal minority.  It's objectively poor game design in a genre rooted in player progression.

 

I think the easiest way to solve this problem is with a god challenge that reduces xp gain. I already suggested it in the appropriate thread:

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/105597-god-challenges-feedback/

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