Skald or Troubadour for Paladin Herald?

[dbarbarian14]

After reading the build from @Voltron https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/99906-potd-solo-build-guide-herlad-war-caller-aka-sword-singer/ and @Ascaloth https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/101088-class-build-the-cunning-duelist/ I am at a cross.

 

I want to play a chanter multiclass.  Looking for a Herald (for some reason I do want to finish my first full playthru with a Paladin).  But I am confused at what to pick.

 

I want to concentrate mostly on offensive skills.  As I tried summoning and they weren't to my liking.  Also this watcher will not be a buffer, so the non-offensive shours are a no go.  So that leaves offensive only shouts.  And this is why I ask the question.  If what I am going to do has little to no casting time is it worth troubadour, or would it be better to be Skald for the extra chance of free phrases on a crit and lower offensive shouts?

 

I already have the build mostly mapped out, with the exception of the chanter subclass.  As for roleplaying purposes I will also go Kind Wayfarer on the paladin. As I want this play to be benevolent and passionate.

 

Thank you for any feedback, as the confusion is on the phrase generation, brisk recitation and the crit chance for free phrases and low cost of offensive shouts.

[Teclis23]

100% troubadour.

 

I was like you and wanted to roll a chanter multiclass. I rolled one and was very disappointed. I found that in probably 95% of fights it just wasnt worth using there summons for the following reasons:

 

- i was a tank and the summons have a really long cast time so summon spells got interrupted alot.

- i found it more effective to just concentrate on being a tank instead of doing summons

- the chanters summons spells are not very strong imo ( weak monsters)

- the summons spells that you chose at higher level ups made the lower level ones pretty much obsolete.

- the summons just are completely not needed

- to me it felt like alot of work an effort to use the summons

- you need to accumulate phrases. If you get interupted yoh lose the phrases

 

I play on potd so i can only imagaine that on lower difficultys chanters would be even worse

 

There chants on the other hand where very helpful. The gunnner speed one and the +10 def one where both awesom

[1TTFFSSE]

depends on the difficulty I'd say on PotD the Troubadour would get faster phrase generation more consistently than a crit skald, The reason is to actually crit stuff a lot n potd you would have to go one handed style and that may be a problem a troubadour can use two weapons and get the phrases faster. 

[dbarbarian14]

Ok, so the vote is for troubadour.  I already have 1 at level 10, but I wanted to make sure if Skald wasn't a better option. Yes I have been looking at combat logs and at this point I get low crits, so the bonus phrases prolly wouldn't work unless doing the one handed build.

 

 

Thanks.

[arkane83]

Skeletons + grave calling. Not entirely useless...

[dbarbarian14]

Yeah, but I dislike the summoning class, and plus for Roleplaying purposes a paladin summoning undeads or other unwordly creatures is not, well, good.  Unless you are playing an evil paladin like Bleak Walker, then yeah I can see that.  But for a Kind Wayfarer I wanted to focus on offensive abilities.

[gkathellar]

Troubadour all day every day.

 

Skald can be made serviceable, and is quite fun on the right build, but gets awfully close to being objectively inferior.

[colma86]

My current MC is a wildrhymer beckoner. Would not recommend lol.

 

Its my first beckoner and I had to try it though.

[grasida]

I think the only thing making skald strictly worse than troubadour is that offensive invocations are much less powerful than summons. But for using offensive invocations, skald is strictly better, particularly since there are so many really powerful ones at PL 1 and 2. For powers like hel hyraf’s, thunder rolled and at the sound of his voice, skalds can cast them just as fast as troubadours before scoring phrases through critical hits, and keep their lingers too. A cantor could potentially even manage two chants while casting offensive invocations faster than a troubadour could at the same time. The problem is that offensive chants just can’t compete with summons and skald is only good at the weaker one while troubadours are good at both.

[MaxQuest]

I want to concentrate mostly on offensive skills.  As I tried summoning and they weren't to my liking.  Also this watcher will not be a buffer, so the non-offensive shours are a no go.  So that leaves offensive only shouts.  And this is why I ask the question.  If what I am going to do has little to no casting time is it worth troubadour, or would it be better to be Skald for the extra chance of free phrases on a crit and lower offensive shouts?

Let's think what options do you have:

• v1. wayfarer/skald with high MIG focused on low-level offensive invocations.

  This one heals with white flames, occasinally tosses LoH and Liberating Exhortations.

  "The Thunder Rolled" and "At The Sound of His Voice" will cost 2 phrases; and are the main invocations to use.

  On average you can cast the new invocation 6s after recovering from the previous one. 1 phrase gets auto-generated, and 1 more you can get from a crit. In the worst case scenario (if you don't crit) it gonna be 12s.

• v2. wayfarer/skald with dumped MIG, focused exclusively on exhortations, beacon and cc invocations.

  But I think, unless you imperatively need Shared Flames in your party, the linked skald/trickster will perform better.

• v3. wayfarer/skald with maxed MIG focused on spell-damage invocations, specifically on "Seven Nights" and "Bitting Winds".

  Basically a regular paladin, but who can also toss a heavy invocation once in 16-30s.

• v4. wayfarer/troubadroud with maxed MIG focused on spell-damage invocations just like the previous variant.

  This herald with Brisk Recitation turned on will be able to gather 5 phrases in 15s. So it looks strictly better than v3, but you lose linger.

• v5. wayfarer/troubadrour with maxed MIG focused on spell-damage chants, specifically Soft Winds and later The Dragon Trashed.

  Theoretically these chants will deal more damage with Brisk Recitation off. But unlike in PoE1, Dragon Trashed is kinda weak in Deadfire. So until a corresponding buff, this approach looks kinda moot.

Out of these I would advice either v1 or v4.

v4 looks like the one which will allow you to deal most damage. While v1 is something I'm currently using on a custom companion in my party, and do like it for versatility and utility.

 

 

Stats: 15/9/15/19/17/3

Weapons (main set): Squid Grasp + Lovers Embrace/Pukestabber (using FoD allows enabling rapier modal without suffering from longer recovery)

Weapons (offset): Sasha's Singing Scimitar + Grave Calling/Min's Fortune/Scordeo's Edge

Armor: Reckless Brigandine

Other notable items: Fair Favor, Bone Setter's Torc, Ring of Focused Flame, Gauntlets of Accuracy/Gatecrashers

 

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by MaxQuest

[pi2repsion]

Honourable mention to the T5 chant Her Courage as Thick as Steel, that with Brisk Recitation refreshes the 10 pt all-damage shield on all allies in range every 3s, making it the one chant that increases in potency when thus used by a Troubadour. Enough to make it worth using in the first place? Perhaps, perhaps not, much depends on party composition and how much damage is spread out, but it is something to consider - mainly if you are also running another chanter that runs the healing or vampirism chants.

 

(Same Brisk Recitation advantage applies to the T7 Many Lives Pass By, Each Leaving Footprints, but I'm not sure an auto-skellyspamming kind wayfarer/troubadour quite fits the OPs wishes.)

Edited August 14, 2018 by pi2repsion

[dbarbarian14]

 

I want to concentrate mostly on offensive skills.  As I tried summoning and they weren't to my liking.  Also this watcher will not be a buffer, so the non-offensive shours are a no go.  So that leaves offensive only shouts.  And this is why I ask the question.  If what I am going to do has little to no casting time is it worth troubadour, or would it be better to be Skald for the extra chance of free phrases on a crit and lower offensive shouts?

Let's think what options do you have:

• v1. wayfarer/skald with high MIG focused on low-level offensive invocations.

  This one heals with white flames, occasinally tosses LoH and Liberating Exhortations.

  "The Thunder Rolled" and "At The Sound of His Voice" will cost 2 phrases; and are the main invocations to use.

  On average you can cast the new invocation 6s after recovering from the previous one. 1 phrase gets auto-generated, and 1 more you can get from a crit. In the worst case scenario (if you don't crit) it gonna be 12s.

• v2. wayfarer/skald with dumped MIG, focused exclusively on exhortations, beacon and cc invocations.

  But I think, unless you imperatively need Shared Flames in your party, the linked skald/trickster will perform better.

• v3. wayfarer/skald with maxed MIG focused on spell-damage invocations, specifically on "Seven Nights" and "Bitting Winds".

  Basically a regular paladin, but who can also toss a heavy invocation once in 16-30s.

• v4. wayfarer/troubadroud with maxed MIG focused on spell-damage invocations just like the previous variant.

  This herald with Brisk Recitation turned on will be able to gather 5 phrases in 15s. So it looks strictly better than v3, but you lose linger.

• v5. wayfarer/troubadrour with maxed MIG focused on spell-damage chants, specifically Soft Winds and later The Dragon Trashed.

  Theoretically these chants will deal more damage with Brisk Recitation off. But unlike in PoE1, Dragon Trashed is kinda weak in Deadfire. So until a corresponding buff, this approach looks kinda moot.

Out of these I would advice either v1 or v4.

v4 looks like the one which will allow you to deal most damage. While v1 is something I'm currently using on a custom companion in my party, and do like it for versatility and utility.

 

 

Stats: 15/9/15/19/17/3

Weapons (main set): Squid Grasp + Lovers Embrace/Pukestabber (using FoD allows enabling rapier modal without suffering from longer recovery)

Weapons (offset): Sasha's Singing Scimitar + Grave Calling/Min's Fortune/Scordeo's Edge

Armor: Reckless Brigandine

Other notable items: Fair Favor, Bone Setter's Torc, Ring of Focused Flame, Gauntlets of Accuracy/Gatecrashers

 

 

 

 

So basically v4,

 

Although my stat choice was Mig14 Con10 Dex14 Per15 Int12 Res10, Before Berath Blessing, Gear boosts, Food and Hasongo GoM and Effigy

Honourable mention to the T5 chant Her Courage as Thick as Steel, that with Brisk Recitation refreshes the 10 pt all-damage shield on all allies in range every 3s, making it the one chant that increases in potency when thus used by a Troubadour. Enough to make it worth using in the first place? Perhaps, perhaps not, much depends on party composition and how much damage is spread out, but it is something to consider - mainly if you are also running another chanter that runs the healing or vampirism chants.

 

(Same Brisk Recitation advantage applies to the T7 Many Lives Pass By, Each Leaving Footprints, but I'm not sure an auto-skellyspamming kind wayfarer/troubadour quite fits the OPs wishes.)

So at one point I just use 1 chant on repeat with Brisk?

[MaxQuest]

So basically v4,

 

 

Although my stat choice was Mig14 Con10 Dex14 Per15 Int12 Res10, Before Berath Blessing, Gear boosts, Food and Hasongo GoM and Effigy

 

The stat spread that I included under the spoiler was for v1)

For v4 I would go for:

-19/9/15/14/18/3 if you use scrolls or DoT chants (assuming that dot chants duration is still affected by int).

-19/9/15/18/14/3 otherwise

 

Reasoning being:

Amount of FoD usages is limited. And those invocations are not spamable. So when they hit, they better hit hard. Hence high MIG and PER.

9 CON is enough on herald to not die to focus fire. For survivability there is AR and healing. No need for higher health pool.

DEX will help finishing those invocations faster (4.5s cast + 3.0s rec). So lower risk of being interupted. And 15 dex is nice in the sense that even if paladin is hobbled or immobilized he wont get dex malus.

As for RES.. those 7 points would only decrease damage taken vs deflection by ~15% for such a character. Which is not worthy enough and can be discarded.

Edited August 14, 2018 by MaxQuest

[dbarbarian14]

 

So basically v4,

 

 

Although my stat choice was Mig14 Con10 Dex14 Per15 Int12 Res10, Before Berath Blessing, Gear boosts, Food and Hasongo GoM and Effigy

The stat spread that I included under the spoiler was for v1)

For v4 I would go for:

-19/9/15/14/18/3 if you use scrolls or DoT chants (assuming that dot chants duration is still affected by int).

-19/9/15/18/14/3 otherwise

 

Reasoning being:

Amount of FoD usages is limited. And those invocations are not spamable. So when they hit, they better hit hard. Hence high MIG and PER.

9 CON is enough on herald to not die to focus fire. For survivability there is AR and healing. No need for higher health pool.

DEX will help finishing those invocations faster (4.5s cast + 3.0s rec). So lower risk of being interupted. And 15 dex is nice in the sense that even if paladin is hobbled or immobilized he wont get dex malus.

As for RES.. those 7 points would only decrease damage taken vs deflection by ~15% for such a character. Which is not worthy enough and can be discarded.

 

Ok... So basically I should follow @Voltron guide but with the changes considering I am going for a full offensive Herald.

 

I need to then read all the description for all the chants to see which ones have DoTs, and check if the damage is affected by Might, I know its duration is affected by Intellect, but since on Brisk Recitation its low boost.

 

 

Edit. Chants like:

Come, Come soft Winds of Death + The Dragon Thrashed, The Dragon Wailed and maybe Old Siec Not Rest 'til His Hunger was Sated...

Edited August 14, 2018 by dbarbarian14

[Tommy1984]

Some words about summons ... I completed my first playthrough as Beckoner and my PotD Solo Triple Crown All Challenges playthrough as Troubadour - both heralds with summon focus
 

- i was a tank and the summons have a really long cast time so summon spells got interrupted alot.

 
With concentration and high defenses this is not an issue.

 

- the chanters summons spells are not very strong imo ( weak monsters)

 

They are actually really powerful ... but you have to upgrade as you progress. The Ancient Weapons later hit for 50+ damage per auto-attack (or even more if you are willing to micromange them as they have abilities like Flames of Devotion). This is even more devasting if you summon up to 8 of them (singleclass Beckoner), but even with only 3 of them (multiclass Troubadour) they hit really hard.

 

- the summons spells that you chose at higher level ups made the lower level ones pretty much obsolete.

 

Thats true ... its best to respec and put your points in something other when you upgrade to a new summon.

 

- the summons just are completely not needed

 

It depends ... you could also say with summons a party is not needed. They are a powerful option for tank builds to also contribute to damage.