Optimizing for Defensive Mindweb

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Defensive Mindweb is not very good in the current incarnation -- any damage at all kicks you from the web -- but just as an exercise in theory:

 

Theoretically, the best party for Defensive Mindweb is one person specialized in each of the four defenses -- that is, one person with high Deflection, one with high Reflex, one with high Fortitude, one with high Willpower.

 

What builds would people suggest to max each of those out? And how would those answers change if you're only using the standard companions and sidekicks?

 

For Deflection, I've seen some builds posted here that had extremely high Deflection ( for example, https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/100521-class-build-solo-arcane-knight-what-happens-when-you-have-210-deflection/ ) but I haven't seen builds that stacked other defenses similarly high -- is it possible? 

 

The two big hurdes I'm seeing are that some items (e.g., giftbearer's cloak) stack fort/will/reflex equally, so would be in demand for all three; also not all class combos are available in the standard companions (no wizard/paladins). 

 

What items would people leap towards? What builds in particular?

Edited August 13, 2018 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[hilfazer]

Don't forget a Chanter with damage shield.

[thundercleese]

Making all four paladins would be a start. Assigning max might/con for the fort guy, max dex/per for reflex, int/res for will. Pick up the relevant +10 passives. Deflection guy would also want max res. A cipher/paladin would theoretically be able to get the highest will in the game (+15 deep faith +10 bulls will +15 PL1 cipher passive whose name I forget). Casita BP and Cadhu Scalth on the deflection guy - probably want to be a Holyslayer.

[1TTFFSSE]

na if you really want to do this get a paladin/priest of wael for monster deflection stacking. max his history give him that cloak and all the bear's fortitude etc talents and 2x ring of minor protection. all of that will stack.he can do stuff like cast circle of protection while the cipher readies mindweb.  that will be enough to have one toon with super defensive stats and the rest don't matter. sure you won't achieve the maximum possible fortitude etc defenses but really it should all be around 180 deflection/150+ in each of the other defenses. it's really enough for all practical purposes and more efficient as the other party members can be glass cannons if you use mindweb. 

[thundercleese]

Semi-related question; If a character is removed from the mind web, does their contribution to it also get removed?

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Semi-related question; If a character is removed from the mind web, does their contribution to it also get removed?

 

I believe so, but i haven't actually tested it because I hadn't bothered much with Mindweb in its current incarnation.

 

It sounds like basically what you'd want to do if limited to the standard companions is max out Pallegina for reflex/fort/will and the chanter damage shield, and then maybe do Aloth as a spellblade with deflection stacking magic.

[Kaylon]

Paladin/wizard with Wizard's Double using Cloak of Major Deflection/Cadhu Scalth/Casita Samelia can probably have both deflection/reflex over 200, while a paladin/helwalker with Magnera's Chain, Giftbearer's cloak, ring of minor protection, Wahaki Tua can probably reach over 200 fortitude/will.

[Verde]

Seems like way too much work for one spell and too little benefit.

[mant2si]

Enough Paladin/Fighter + Priest (if you want to rise deflection over 200)

+~20 from fighter active
+~15 from paladin passive
+~10 to all defenses from attributes
+~10 to all defenses from Conqurerer Stance + Superior Deflection, Bull's Will
+~10 to all defenses from The Giftbearer's Cloth +  Casità Samelia's Legacy
+~10 to all defenses from Bracers of Greater Deflection, Ring of Minor Deflection, Ring of Minor Protection, Wahaki Tua
 
Which will give you in summary 80 !+ 65 = 145

Berath blessing could give you +8 to Reflex, Will, Fortitude and +2 to deflection
Cast Fighter inspirations Acute, Aware, Resolve + 5 Deflection, 20 Will, 10 Reflex
Use drug that give you to Strength, Dexterity, Constitution ~ 8 Fortitude, 6 Reflex
Shield Cadhu Scalth - 22 Deflection from Legendary shield, +6 deflection from Weapon and Shield Style, +~5 Deflection from Heavy Shard
Weapon Kapana Taga ~ possible 5 additional deflection and immunity to flanked

+~20 + 145 ~= 173 Will
+~16 Fortitude ~= 160 Fortitude
+~55 Reflex ~= 200 Reflex
+~40 Deflection ~= 185 Deflection

Then you can spread attribute points between reflex, fortitude and will and make something like 

+185 Will
+185 Fortitude
+185 Reflex
+185 Deflection

There exist buff from Priest that give +25 to deflection and Fit, Strong, Fast inspirations + Salvation of time

+185 Will
+193 Fortitude
+191 Reflex
+210 Deflection

I never test, but you can try to use food that give +5 to defenses except deflection, don't know if this will work

+190 Will
+198 Fortitude
+196 Reflex
+210 Deflection

Edited August 14, 2018 by mant2si

[mant2si]

Holy ***t forum eat half of my post, after editation   

UPD: I fixed it :D 

As you can see even without Priest single fighter can immediately has +~180 to all defenses, you need  to give him only deflection buff.

I miss some stack-able bonuses like Mirrored Image (+5 more deflection), Llengrath's Displaced Image (+30 Reflex), and hell-walker can has (+20 Fortitude)/(+20 will)

Edited August 14, 2018 by mant2si

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Seems like way too much work for one spell and too little benefit.

 

 

Oh I don't necessarily disagree.

 

Personally I think that Mindweb probably needs a buff (i'd suggest changing it to break on crit, not break on damage) but that got me wondering what the theoretical optimum was with it. 

 

I suspect that the end-point answer is going to be that the real answer is "if you make a character with strong enough defenses to make the party invulnerable, that character could solo the game by himself anyway and the party isn't necessary," which is another argument in favor of boosting the spell. But I'm curious and wanted to test the hypothesis.

[mant2si]

Seems like way too much work for one spell and too little benefit.

That why I think that Pal/Fighter the best candidate for this spell, it can cast all their buffs immediately (you can even setup AI) 

 

UPD: It's look like I made an error and you will get +10 more to all defenses 

Edited August 14, 2018 by mant2si

[Lampros]

On 8/13/2018 at 6:29 PM, Kaylon said:

Paladin/wizard with Wizard's Double using Cloak of Major Deflection/Cadhu Scalth/Casita Samelia can probably have both deflection/reflex over 200, while a paladin/helwalker with Magnera's Chain, Giftbearer's cloak, ring of minor protection, Wahaki Tua can probably reach over 200 fortitude/will.

I've never seen Wahaki Tua Any where - even as a random drop.

[madatin]

All they really need to do in order to rebalance the ability is lower the focus cost.

The current power level is appropriate for a PL3 or PL4 cipher ability, but it costs 80 focus to cast. 

A refund like how the chanter ability "Far from defeated, his heart filled with joy", which refunds half the resource cost would be perfect.

So it would cost 80 focus to cast, then it would refund you 40 right afterwards. 

[thelee]

the problem is that it seems that the ability either is really crap or really too powerful. even if it was 40 focus, i wouldn't use it 99% of the time, except in the rare case where i am set up where it's essentially party god mode for 40 focus.

 

btw is it actually the case that any damage knocks a party member out of the web? i thought it was just "hit" rolls. if it really is any damage, then it is even worse. defensive mindweb was pretty good in poe1, it seems they drastically overcorrected for deadfire.

[Bosmer]

On 8/14/2018 at 12:29 AM, Kaylon said:

Paladin/wizard with Wizard's Double using Cloak of Major Deflection/Cadhu Scalth/Casita Samelia can probably have both deflection/reflex over 200, while a paladin/helwalker with Magnera's Chain, Giftbearer's cloak, ring of minor protection, Wahaki Tua can probably reach over 200 fortitude/will.

A Chanter could also provide "At the Sight of their Comrades, their Hearts Grew Bold" for a stacking +10 will +10 fortitude buff.

Does someone know of any additional +will and/or +fortitude items and abilities? Then two members of the party could split the four defenses between themselves and the remaining party members could live in "god mode".

Edit: Of course the respective inspirations should also be considered, again a chanter provides easy aoe access to all tier 1 inspirations.

Edit: Weapons that provide will and fortitude buffs:

- Griffins blade: either +5 will or +5 fortitude.

- Engoliero do Espirs: +3 might and +3 constitution result in + 12 fortitude.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Bosmer