Good Class Combo for a Magic Gunman?

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Hey guys, 

 

So, I've been wanting to make a character that follows the Magic Gunman/Magic Marksman archetype - basically, someone who mixes firearms with magic in some way, either through using spells to enhance their innate abilities as a marksman or through enchanting bullets or even 'shooting' spells. I've been experimenting with different multiclass options to try to come up with something that fits, and I'd like to share what I have so far with you guys, to get your opinion on things. Keep in mind, this isn't an exhaustive list. If you have an option that I haven't listed, feel free to leave it below. 

 

1. Transcendent (Helwalker/Ascendant): Ciphers, of all of the casting classes, fit this concept really well. They have an innate symbiotic relationship between casting and weapon attacks through Soul Whip, which can be seen as enchanting their gear to leech essence from their foes. Their spells focus on manipulating the souls and essence of their allies and enemies. Monk, meanwhile, focuses on strengthening the soul through causing pain - either to themselves or to their enemies. The power they gain from their Wounds can then be used to strengthen their attacks, imbue their weapons with flame or lightning, project their fists or melee weapons at range, or spawn elemental copies of themselves. 

 

Build: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/103822-roleplay-build-special-agent-ranged-transcendent-helwalkerascendant/

 

Pros (IC): Cipher unique dialogue options, Monks occupy a variety of different walks of life in Eora including spies and assassins, synergistic class interaction with an emphasis on soul manipulation both inwardly and outwardly, a return of sorts to my PoE1 Cipher character.

 

Pros (OOC): Really good class synergy - though Monk synergizes well with everything, good mix of damage and CC based Cipher powers, +10 Might/Int from Helwalker with Duality of Mortal Presence, a small bit more HP. Can use damage dealing Cipher powers in addition to CC-focused Cipher powers for different encounters. 

 

Cons (IC): Can't really think of any. 

 

Cons (OOC): Power choices might be a little scattered. No real get out of jail free card if I do get into a nasty situation (Escape/Shadowing Beyond) and I take 50% extra damage at max Wounds. Probably less weapon damage overall than a Rogue multi, considering how Might is calculated compared to Sneak Attack. 

 

2. Mindstalker (No Subclass/Ascendant): Compared to Monks, Rogues don't really have the same array of powers that come from a strengthened soul, but it is stated throughout skill descriptions and dialogue that at least some of their talents come from a manipulation of essence. Escape and Shadowing Beyond/Shadow Step are described as a practical use of one's essence to quickly enter a point in the Beyond and emerge at another point, cloaking oneself with shadow to avoid attacks/become invisible. With that in mind, it makes sense that a particularly adept Rogue would know how to draw upon those powers in other ways - lining up ideal shots for things like Blinding Strike or Pierce the Bell for instance, or knowing just where to strike an enemy to make a Sneak Attack. 

 

Build: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/103781-roleplay-build-the-company-man-mindstalker-ranged-streetfighterascendant-for-potd-not-a-solo-build-warning-lots-of-reading/

 

Pros (IC): Cipher specific dialogue options, more of an emphasis on shady dealings and dirty deeds. 

 

Pros (OOC): Lots of really devastating afflictions/DoT effects available, high weapon damage from Sneak Attack > Deathblows and Soul Whip (When Ascended, 50% Sneak Attack damage and 100% Deathblows damage), Secret Horrors sets up Deathblows on its own and targets Will. Good escape option in the form of Shadowing Beyond. 

 

Cons (IC): Silly name. 

 

Cons (OOC): To take all of the really good Rogue stuff, you can't take a lot of Cipher powers and pretty much have to limit yourself to CC. Even then, you have to make some really tough choices whereas Monk allows you to be a little more free with what you pick. Take a look at the build - Two Weapon Fighting at 10th level. Arterial Strike at level 13. Also, aside from gear, there's no real action speed increase available unless Streetfighter is picked, and the conditions for setting up Streetfighter on a pure ranged character are tedious and awkward. 

 

3. Shadowdancer (No-Subclass/Helwalker): This one focuses entirely on the first type of magic gunner I discussed in the first few paragraphs, a character that almost entirely uses his magic to strengthen his otherwise honed marksmanship skills. Gone are the spells centered around invading the minds of his enemies, now we just have a character that uses his control over his own essence to make sure that each shot counts and that each shot hurts. 

 

Pros (IC): I can't really think of any that put it above Transcendent or Mindstalker

 

Pros (OOC): Access to really good Monk passive/active abilities and Sneak Attack for super strong weapon damage with an Action Speed increase from Swift Strikes/Lightning Strikes. Access to an escape option through Shadowing Beyond as well as the devastating Affliction ability of the Rogue. 

 

Cons (IC): No Cipher dialogue options. In fact, Monk and Rogue together have less than 10. 

 

Cons (OOC): AoE requires using area of effect weapons like Blunderbusses (Poor range and accuracy with no in-build way to buff Accuracy unlike the Cipher), loses out on Soul Whip damage, as well as Charm/Dominate. Most skills target Fortitude (Generally highest enemy defense) or Reflex. Heavy focus on single target damage makes combat against multiple enemies a chore. 

 

So I'm curious to hear your thoughts. Right now I'm heavily leaning toward Transcendent as my first choice, simply because I feel like it has the best synergy both in character and out of character, and allows for a lot more freedom in the abilities I take and when I take them. Losing out on Sneak Attack damage is a shame, but ultimately I feel like the extra Might and Intellect from Helwalker make up for it. Now, if only I had an escape option for boarding parties outside of Bounding Boots. 

[lameover]

First off - your MC in first two builds has the least Resolve than anyone in your party.

It means your MC will be focused by enemies - especially by ranged enemies - from the start of an encounter.

So, Monk's  Dance of Death won't give you much before level 11. Even then with Enduring Death you'll get shot and melee engaged.

So, without any "escape" ability you'll need to micro you party to not give a chance your MC been hit too much or engaged.

 

On other hand the Rogue even with low Resolve won't be melee engaged, cause it has "escape" abilities. You don't need to babysit the whole party, only MC.

Rogue\Cipher will outdamage Monk\Cipher even with CC role. And you can always choose to be CC or DD  or even mix CC\DD abilities of both classes.

 

Shadowdancer is not a Magin Gunman archetype, it's just a gunman.

 

Take a look at Ranger\Cipher builds, thou i don't really like their micro

Edited July 19, 2018 by lameover

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

First off - your MC in first two builds has the least Resolve than anyone in your party.

It means your MC will be focused by enemies - especially by ranged enemies - from the start of an encounter.

So, Monk's  Dance of Death won't give you much before level 11. Even then with Enduring Death you'll get shot and melee engaged.

So, without any "escape" ability you'll need to micro you party to not give a chance your MC been hit too much or engaged.

 

On other hand the Rogue even with low Resolve won't be melee engaged, cause it has "escape" abilities. You don't need to babysit the whole party, only MC.

Rogue\Cipher will outdamage Monk\Cipher even with CC role. And you can always choose to be CC or DD  or even mix CC\DD abilities of both classes.

 

Shadowdancer is not a Magin Gunman archetype, it's just a gunman.

 

Take a look at Ranger\Cipher builds, thou i don't really like their micro

 

Hmm... 

 

Too bad there's not a way to really handle the Resolve problem and still remain efficient at doing damage. I could drop Might a bit for it, since I don't think it's really needed for ANY subclass of Rogue with Sneak Attack damage), just so I'm not at negative Deflection. Or is that not worth the damage I'd lose, even if it's additive? 

 

Alright, I think I might work on my Mindstalker build a little bit more. Having that escape, and then later that Escape + Invisibility, really does make a world of difference. 

[Haplok]

Well, the solution is to use the party to body block/focus enemies, as well as CC (Mental Binding, Whispers, Puppet Master). Dance sometimes will get interrupted.. but then you'll get wounds either way. I try to avoid enemy attention early on. That way most melees can be bound by the tank's engagement.

[lameover]

As i said, as Monk\Cipher with low resolve you just need to do more micro on your group to prevent your MC being attacked.

You can engage and distract enemies with other party member and then activate Dance of Death.

 

But as i said, Rogue\Cipher will outdamage Monk\Cipher in short (20-30s) fights.

 

I understand the RP thing about Monk\Cipher and it can be good at PoTD long fights.

[Haplok]

Sure, nothing else can quite match a Streetfighter's FullAttack ability spam.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Haplok

[arkane83]

Why not mix ranger with cipher or wizard?

[Boeroer]

Since everything is Streetfighter/X at the moment and that's boring, my theoretical approach (since now there is switching in the AI): Black Jacket/Wizard, Quick Switch, Arms Bearer, Giftbearer's Cloth, Ring of Focused Flame (helps with hitting enemies with Combusting Wounds since it targets fortitude). This should give you 5 weapon sets (?). Fill them all with Blunderbusses. Cast Combusting Wounds onto the enemies, then cycle through your weapon sets with Penetrating Strikes. You should have been able to deliver 40 hits which each will trigger an instance of CW (all in all 320 damge base - a lot more with longer duration and more MIG). If you can make it work without having to switch manually all the taime it could be cool. Of not it's a pase-switch-pause fest which is not nice.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Just checked: Actually you can theoretically get 6 Weapon Sets as Black Jacket + Giftbearer's Cloth + Fleshmender + Arms Bearer. BUT the UI can't handle more than 4 and thus you have them, but you can't put anything into them. Maybe there's a keyboard shortcut that allows you to put a weapon into a weapon slot?

[lameover]

As always, Boeroer ruins plain-minded game approach

Edited July 19, 2018 by lameover

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Alright guys, 

 

So, I thought about it... And the perks of being a Mindstalker do rather outweigh the drawbacks. Having a way to shirk enemy attention in combat is a huge lifesaver for a low Resolve character, and the emphasis on gunplay with debilitating spells is something that I really appreciate. 

 

I've been working on polishing up my build, and the most complete version can be found here https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/103907-characterroleplay-build-the-agent-mindstalker-streetfighterascendant/ 

 

Please have a look. 

[1TTFFSSE]

honestly, if you are really concerned on a minimum resolve toon about aggro you craft a few invisibility potions and always carry them in your belt slot. at the start of scary encounters like ship boarding etc when you know the toon will be rushed you drink the potion, position yourself somewhere at the back and let everyone else engage and then unload your attacks. works every time. 

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

honestly, if you are really concerned on a minimum resolve toon about aggro you craft a few invisibility potions and always carry them in your belt slot. at the start of scary encounters like ship boarding etc when you know the toon will be rushed you drink the potion, position yourself somewhere at the back and let everyone else engage and then unload your attacks. works every time. 

 

That'd work! Though I'll obviously have to be concerned about boarding before I got the resources to make invisibility potions, but that's solvable by actually paying attention to where ships are. 

 

I honestly can't say which I prefer at this point. I'm trying to line up all the pros and cons of both. 

 

1. Rogue: Higher weapon damage, more escape options, more synergy with Cipher affliction abilities for setting up Sneak Attacks, but squishier (By a small margin), less Action Speed boosts/Recovery reduction (Unless I go with Streetfighter and take an Accuracy malus that affects spells as well until I get Borrowed Instinct), and way too many good abilities for the limited slots I have to choose from. 

 

2. Monk: More reason to take Cipher damage spells, Stunning Blow/Surge, more flexibility in build choice, access to lash damage, but no additional weapon damage outside of Soul Whip and the 20%/15% lash from Turning Wheel/Lightning Strikes, no way to teleport quickly out of a melee scrim (Though I could use invisibility potions), and attacks that target mostly Fortitude as opposed to Reflex. 

 

I don't know. At this point, I'm leaning heavily toward Cipher/Rogue again. 

[Verde]

As always, Boeroer ruins plain-minded game approach

Haha

[lameover]

Yep, the "low resolve thing" could be solved in many ways.

But the Streetfighter\pure Rogue\Cipher still most DD\CC ranged multiclass in short time (30s+) battles.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Yep, the "low resolve thing" could be solved in many ways.

But the Streetfighter\pure Rogue\Cipher still most DD\CC ranged multiclass in short time (30s+) battles.

 

Hmm. Alright. Please check the updated build https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/103907-characterroleplay-build-the-agent-mindstalker-streetfighterascendant/ I've modified the skills a bit, changed the race for more Rauatai flavor, and hopefully the starting stats don't impede the DPS spells I did decide to take too much (Mainly because I was running out of options to take at that point). 

[Verde]

TC you sure have a lot of topics about your builds

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

TC you sure have a lot of topics about your builds

 

I doooo! That's because I come up with so many options that seem fun to play, and short of loading up a bunch of copies of the game and letting the AI do it, I can't try them all at once.