Finally some sales evidence

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

I'm confused. Is this in defense of bigbazoopa or mocking him?

 

Ah, my apologies. dril is a mainstay on weird twitter. he normally gets posted as a response to macho, self-aggrandising, paranoid nonsense. the account does a great job of sending up that mindset.

 

so its not a defence, no.

 

I'm not old enough for Ultima but it's the same char like what, 12 times, I doubt they stuck progression through all those.

 

ur assumptions correct. they didnt.

 

also in mass effect, shepard and friends start at lv 1 each time if u want another modern point of comparison. i feel thats fair if ur a soldier bcs ur effectiviness is tied to current conditioning, but its a harder sell for engineers and biotics.

 

i normally rationalise lvl progression in crpgs as a measure of how ur current conditioning matches ur current situation.

 

if u want to get deeper into this rabbit hole, potency should go up and down depending on how in the zone u are. it shouldnt only go up. there are rules in pathfinder and dnd for ageing but... meh. i think the concept of 'levels' is best off being dismissed as a mechanical necessity and not thought about any further.

 

just in case it needs stating, this isnt me making an argument for not having levels, levelling up is fun.

[Frak]

 

I prefer to start at level 1 than at level 17. The explanation for the Watcher going back to 1 is ok, but don't ask me about Eder, Aloth and Pallegina...

 

 

Easy:

Eder took one too many blows to the head and has combat-related amnesia. Re-learning through muscle memory

 

Aloth: Iselmyr (they are in harmony in my save-state) happened and he ... uhh ... something an event involving about Ymir-lookalike, sex and a magic spell during that went horribly awry. Is totally repressed about anything magic and sexy-time.

 

Pallegina: Traumatic experience ("Republics deserted me, wahhhh.") means she just a bird in a breastplate and conviction strong enough to become  a new sith-lord. A chickenshield that has to learn how to fight.

[house2fly]

They don't need an excuse, is the thing. Aloth is, what, in his 60s? Eder is a combat veteran. They both start the first game at level 1, and nobody cares. Sagani has been wandering the world for years, Hiravias is a nomad who lives off the land. Zahua was a tribal chieftain and briefly invincible! None are higher level than you when you meet them, nobody cares

[xzar_monty]

Precisely. This is called suspension of disbelief, as we all know.

 

But that phenomenon is a delicate one. For instance, in the first game, I was quite annoyed by the fact that although I was, on the one hand, able to carry every single item I ever found in the game and it wouldn't even feel like a burden, I was also, on the other hand, unable to carry more than two or four sets of camping supplies, depending on the difficulty.

[InsaneCommander]

Easy:

Eder took one too many blows to the head and has combat-related amnesia. Re-learning through muscle memory

 

Aloth: Iselmyr (they are in harmony in my save-state) happened and he ... uhh ... something an event involving about Ymir-lookalike, sex and a magic spell during that went horribly awry. Is totally repressed about anything magic and sexy-time.

 

Pallegina: Traumatic experience ("Republics deserted me, wahhhh.") means she just a bird in a breastplate and conviction strong enough to become  a new sith-lord. A chickenshield that has to learn how to fight.

 

Hmm... what if Aloth reawakened and what we see now is yet another personality?

 

 

They don't need an excuse, is the thing. Aloth is, what, in his 60s? Eder is a combat veteran. They both start the first game at level 1, and nobody cares. Sagani has been wandering the world for years, Hiravias is a nomad who lives off the land. Zahua was a tribal chieftain and briefly invincible! None are higher level than you when you meet them, nobody cares

 

Which is another way of saying that restarting at level 1 isn't a problem. Most companions did that in PoE1.

[Frak]

 

Easy:

Eder took one too many blows to the head and has combat-related amnesia. Re-learning through muscle memory

 

Aloth: Iselmyr (they are in harmony in my save-state) happened and he ... uhh ... something an event involving about Ymir-lookalike, sex and a magic spell during that went horribly awry. Is totally repressed about anything magic and sexy-time.

 

Pallegina: Traumatic experience ("Republics deserted me, wahhhh.") means she just a bird in a breastplate and conviction strong enough to become  a new sith-lord. A chickenshield that has to learn how to fight.

 

Hmm... what if Aloth reawakened and what we see now is yet another personality?

 

 

 

Ohhh, now you are - as we say here - twisting it. I did not see that one coming. Aloth v3, I like it ;-)

 

Maybe he's possessed by spirit that doesn't want to us to know he's possessed? And Iselmyr is trying to warn us? I must pay more heed to the hidden clues in Iselmyrs ramblings.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Iselmyr was the dominant personality all along and shes only pretending to be aloth to fk with u.

 

aloths actual dormant personality is that of an attention seeking rent boy who gets naked whenever hes drunk. Thats the real reason iselmyr took charge to keep him from utter destruction.

 

In poe3 the original aloth emerges and he brings eora to its knees by enlisting all living creatures in a bacchanalian cult. At the end u have the options to stop him, join him, or take over from him.

 

Microsoft give obs the money to render detailed cutscenes, game sells half a billion copies. Everyone is er... satisfied.

[Hassat Hunter]

also in mass effect, shepard and friends start at lv 1 each time if u want another modern point of comparison.

Ah yes, they even did that dumb thing in Mass Effect 2 where they tried explaining it by blowing you up and re-building you at the start. Or was it to explain a slightly different look from the editor? Anyway it was really dumb and I'm glad they didn't really delve into it for ME3, it just happened. Much better.

[xzar_monty]

Incidentally, now that Pathfinder: Kingmaker is reasonably patched, I've played it for a bit. I understand it's selling a lot better than Deadfire, and while I have no explanation for or indeed any problem with that, it has to be said that as far as narrative quality is concerned, these games are from two totally different worlds. Kingmaker is very cheesy, and there doesn't even seem to be any attempt at immersive high-quality storytelling or any kind of higher values of role-playing. Which is fine: in its own genre, the game seems to work fine. But if you're looking for finesse of any kind, look elsewhere.

 

It would be very sad if there were no more ambitious projects such as Deadfire.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

 

also in mass effect, shepard and friends start at lv 1 each time if u want another modern point of comparison.

Ah yes, they even did that dumb thing in Mass Effect 2 where they tried explaining it by blowing you up and re-building you at the start. Or was it to explain a slightly different look from the editor? Anyway it was really dumb and I'm glad they didn't really delve into it for ME3, it just happened. Much better.

I really enjoyed that contrivance. Thought it was a fantastic way to wipe the slate clean and cut shepard loose from their old life. Playing some borderline-undead construction was also a lot of fun. I really enjoyed the reactions of ur old team to u coming back from the dead. Alternately sad and heartwarming as it should be.

 

For me the death/resurrection thing was a masterstroke. One of the things that put me2 over the top.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Incidentally, now that Pathfinder: Kingmaker is reasonably patched, I've played it for a bit. I understand it's selling a lot better than Deadfire, and while I have no explanation for or indeed any problem with that, it has to be said that as far as narrative quality is concerned, these games are from two totally different worlds. Kingmaker is very cheesy, and there doesn't even seem to be any attempt at immersive high-quality storytelling or any kind of higher values of role-playing. Which is fine: in its own genre, the game seems to work fine. But if you're looking for finesse of any kind, look elsewhere.

 

It would be very sad if there were no more ambitious projects such as Deadfire.

Ur take is pretty much mine.

 

As ive said prior, kingmaker has built in audience of pathfinder devotees invested in success of first big crpg succeeding. It also sells a v clear power fantasy with easily understandable tropes.

 

U have pretty angelic pretty boy tristian to kiss and marry and stuff. U have angry tomboy valerie who needs a man to fix her. Also a pair of depraved bisexuals for bisexual depravity.

 

(Theres something a little bit off about making the queer romance options chaotic and hypersexual while the straight companions are er... straightlaced but ill bang that drum another time)

 

Im really enjoying it and would buy this type of game forever but - like u say - id be sad if it crowded out more ambitious stuff like deadfire.

[house2fly]

It seems to have real trouble retaining players- after nearly two months, less than 1% of players have finished the game, and only 55% have got the "founded a barony" achievement, which presumably you get early in the game. It's sold well but might be close to hitting its cap. Maybe this big patch will turn things around- player count has more than doubled since I last looked, so it's probably given them a boost.

[Tarlonniel]

It also sells a v clear power fantasy with easily understandable tropes.

 

U have pretty angelic pretty boy tristian to kiss and marry and stuff.

 

Welp, I just realized that I need this game in my life. Off to Steam!

[InsaneCommander]

U have pretty angelic pretty boy tristian to kiss and marry and stuff. U have angry tomboy valerie who needs a man to fix her. Also a pair of depraved bisexuals for bisexual depravity.

 

Don't forget it is also interspecies. And since I'm planning a chaotic Dragon Disciple, well... I think it will get depraved for sure.

 

 

It seems to have real trouble retaining players- after nearly two months, less than 1% of players have finished the game, and only 55% have got the "founded a barony" achievement, which presumably you get early in the game. It's sold well but might be close to hitting its cap. Maybe this big patch will turn things around- player count has more than doubled since I last looked, so it's probably given them a boost.

 

I pre-ordered the game but I have been waiting for them to fix the more serious bugs. And I will wait until the later parts of the game are working well too.

[Frak]

It seems to have real trouble retaining players- after nearly two months, less than 1% of players have finished the game, and only 55% have got the "founded a barony" achievement, which presumably you get early in the game. It's sold well but might be close to hitting its cap. Maybe this big patch will turn things around- player count has more than doubled since I last looked, so it's probably given them a boost.

 

 

This might be people just waiting for the bugs to be ironed out. I have bought the game, but I'm not playing it until much much later. Mainly due to bugs and DLC's

[Hassat Hunter]

I really enjoyed that contrivance. Thought it was a fantastic way to wipe the slate clean and cut shepard loose from their old life. Playing some borderline-undead construction was also a lot of fun. I really enjoyed the reactions of ur old team to u coming back from the dead. Alternately sad and heartwarming as it should be.

 

For me the death/resurrection thing was a masterstroke. One of the things that put me2 over the top.

I already left my own opinion so not repeating that, but ME2 made the same "mistake" PoE2 did with that; while it explains The Watcher/Shephard why is the rest of his team reset (Garrus, Talia, Carth, Aloth, Eder)

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

 

It also sells a v clear power fantasy with easily understandable tropes.

 

U have pretty angelic pretty boy tristian to kiss and marry and stuff.

 

Welp, I just realized that I need this game in my life. Off to Steam!

 

 

go for it. i hope ur very happy together.

[house2fly]

 

It seems to have real trouble retaining players- after nearly two months, less than 1% of players have finished the game, and only 55% have got the "founded a barony" achievement, which presumably you get early in the game. It's sold well but might be close to hitting its cap. Maybe this big patch will turn things around- player count has more than doubled since I last looked, so it's probably given them a boost.

 

 

This might be people just waiting for the bugs to be ironed out. I have bought the game, but I'm not playing it until much much later. Mainly due to bugs and DLC's

 

Very possibly, but today's media environment is a constant deluge of content. People taking their eyes off your game is dangerous, because it's trivial for them to find something else to play.

[InsaneCommander]

Very possibly, but today's media environment is a constant deluge of content. People taking their eyes off your game is dangerous, because it's trivial for them to find something else to play.

 

I totally agree with this, but there are many games released with bugs or even unfinished, so they must have pressing reasons to do it.

[xzar_monty]

It seems to have real trouble retaining players- after nearly two months, less than 1% of players have finished the game, and only 55% have got the "founded a barony" achievement, which presumably you get early in the game. It's sold well but might be close to hitting its cap. Maybe this big patch will turn things around- player count has more than doubled since I last looked, so it's probably given them a boost.

 

Deadfire came out in May, I'm not even close to finishing it. Only started playing in October. Now waiting for the last DLC but playing somewhat. So there's that.

 

I started P:K yesterday.

[xzar_monty]

 

 

It seems to have real trouble retaining players- after nearly two months, less than 1% of players have finished the game, and only 55% have got the "founded a barony" achievement, which presumably you get early in the game. It's sold well but might be close to hitting its cap. Maybe this big patch will turn things around- player count has more than doubled since I last looked, so it's probably given them a boost.

 

 

This might be people just waiting for the bugs to be ironed out. I have bought the game, but I'm not playing it until much much later. Mainly due to bugs and DLC's

 

Very possibly, but today's media environment is a constant deluge of content. People taking their eyes off your game is dangerous, because it's trivial for them to find something else to play.

 

 

That really depends, so I wouldn't really say that. For me, there is almost no content in today's media. When I'm not playing Deadfire or P:K, which is most of the time, I'm not playing anything and not looking for anything else to play, either (except sometimes for other CRPGs, of which there appear to be none). But I'm probably in a minority.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

Deadfire is a different adventure than PoE 1. And the game is much improved. Those are the primary reasons to play it.

If someone doesn't want to play it because of the need to start from level 1, they probably aren't the target audience anyway.

I strongly hoped I won't be level 17 at the start of the game.

 

I prefer to start at level 1 than at level 17. The explanation for the Watcher going back to 1 is ok, but don't ask me about Eder, Aloth and Pallegina...

 

Poor souls...

[bringingyouthefuture]

 

Easy:

Eder took one too many blows to the head and has combat-related amnesia. Re-learning through muscle memory

 

Aloth: Iselmyr (they are in harmony in my save-state) happened and he ... uhh ... something an event involving about Ymir-lookalike, sex and a magic spell during that went horribly awry. Is totally repressed about anything magic and sexy-time.

 

Pallegina: Traumatic experience ("Republics deserted me, wahhhh.") means she just a bird in a breastplate and conviction strong enough to become  a new sith-lord. A chickenshield that has to learn how to fight.

 

Hmm... what if Aloth reawakened and what we see now is yet another personality?

 

 

They don't need an excuse, is the thing. Aloth is, what, in his 60s? Eder is a combat veteran. They both start the first game at level 1, and nobody cares. Sagani has been wandering the world for years, Hiravias is a nomad who lives off the land. Zahua was a tribal chieftain and briefly invincible! None are higher level than you when you meet them, nobody cares

 

Which is another way of saying that restarting at level 1 isn't a problem. Most companions did that in PoE1.

 

 

I mean in terms of the characters - Eder was playing mayor and gaining weight; Pallegina was drunk on a boat playing mercenary; and Aloth has been addicted to Svef for years (it happened when he went undercover) ...  I mean I am wearing the Devil of Caroc as I play right now ... which makes me very happy, poor thing.

 

 

---

 

I second playing Pathfinder sparingly because of bugs ... I'm waiting to see if they do anything to fix Kingdom management.  I mean, P:K is such a classic DnD game its hard not to like it, I mean even combat feels a lot like old DnD games.

Edited November 18, 2018 by bringingyouthefuture

[Franknstein]

This thread is epic! Epic! =)

 

I like Deadfire. The story, the mechanics, and I do feel like Deadfire being an improvement over PoEI. And yes, the game could profit from quite a few rounds of polishing in every aspect. Hope the resources from MS will allow the team to make improvements in the months to come w. the big DLC, and patch 4.0 e.t.c.

 

And then launch a big "re-engagement" campaign to get wonder-sales and ensure PoEIII. =)

Edited November 20, 2018 by Franknstein

[xzar_monty]

Hope the resources from MS will allow the team to make improvements in the months to come w. the big DLC, and patch 4.0 e.t.c.

 

Given how a huge organization like MS generally works, it sounds unlikely that they would allocate any resources at all to a project that is performing so poorly as Deadfire apparently is. Thus, the MS acquisition likely puts an end to the whole thing.

 

Naturally, I will be very happy to be proven wrong.