Cipher class general feedback discussion

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Just to raise the historical point, but the job of Ciphers in the first game wasn't just "the charm guy."

 

Ciphers in PoE 1 were the best at crowd control generally -- mental binding was as much a part of that as Charm was, if not more, as well as the other debuffs --- if specialized for CC and debuffs,  and then competitive with wizards and rangers as ranged DPS weapon/casters if specialized for damage, and  tertiary after priests and then chanters as support casters. 

 

Of all those roles, what's left now is basically "charm dudes". Most of the best Cipher CC got either directly or indirectly  nerfed (Mental Binding getting doubly hit -- Paralyze is now a weaker effect, and the duration of the power is also much shorter for a longer casting time). 

 

Even setting aside summons, Chanters are now otherwise stronger on crowd control (Killers Froze Stiff is excellent); Wizards and Chanters are both superior debuffers; the only really strong support caster power Ciphers have left is Pain Block (Body Attunement is nerfed to the ground and Defensive Mindweb is a soap bubble now) and all Pain Block does is a single-target Robust inspiration. 

 

There is still a role for multiclassed CIphers as DPS but single-classed ciphers can no longer keep up with wizards (or even, I suspect, well-built priests or druids) as damage casters, simply due to the per-encounter shift; nothing a Cipher has, not even an Ascendant spamming Disintegrate, can compete with a high level wizard dumping a spellbook full of Minoletta's variants.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[theBalthazar]

Ciphers in PoE 1 were the best at crowd control generally

 

 

. . .

 

No.

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Relentless_Storm

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Ninagauth%27s_Shadowflame

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Call_to_Slumber

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Gaze_of_the_Adragan

Edited June 5, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Wizards were good too, sure, as were druids, but "AoE charm" is a stronger CC effect than AoE stun or AoE paralyze. It was the combination of AoE charms + solid single-target paralyzes from an early level that made the class work. Then at high levels you got things like Amplified Wave etc.  

 

To an extent "best at" is more a function of build than anything else. You could build a Cipher to dominate as a DPS caster if you wanted, but you could build a wizard or even a priest to do that job too. Each class was fairly flexible. 

 

It's that flexibility that's missing for CIphers now, more than just the raw power. You can still build a cipher that's relatively effective, there's just a very narrow range of ways that cipher can be effective and most builds are going to be identical especially in the late game. 

[dunehunter]

One thing I need to mention here is, Cipher lacks gears to boost their PL. For a wizard I can find gears to boost my fire spells for +10 PL pre-patch, but I can’t find any gears that has shred keyword.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

One thing I need to mention here is, Cipher lacks gears to boost their PL. For a wizard I can find gears to boost my fire spells for +10 PL pre-patch, but I can’t find any gears that has shred keyword.

 

This is a really good point but i believe technically incorrect

 

 

The Chromoprismatic Quarterstaff will boost Soul Shock by one power level ! 

 

 

As long as the Cipher's powers happen to have the right Wizard keyword, they will also get the PL boost!

[evilcat]

It dont have to be "best at", since it is less fun to be forced to have Priest for healing, and fighter for tanking, and rogue dps. It is more fun to have multiple classes being able to competent in the roles.

 

Just how good Cipher is? Why should i include cipher in party, but not Wizard, or Wizard/Chanter.

Wizard/Chanter even with lower PL, hit as hard, could unleash power from the start of combat without stop for 14+7 spells. And then keep using invocations from Chanter, with own version of charm or paralyze or summon ogres, they even have -2AR spell, just in aoe and infinite duration version. Wizards also have access to 2/level spells for free. And could even reach more spells with a bit of grimoir switching.

Ditching chanter and single class wizard with witting winds and meteor shower is no weaker.

 

There is a lot of room before ciphers get overpowered.

Edited June 5, 2018 by evilcat

[dunehunter]

A soulbound dagger for paladin is also an unique taste...

[Yakmann]

Yeah, that dagger's binding choice is weird. Rogue I get, but priest and paladin?

[Rumpelstilskin]

Just how good Cipher is? Why should i include cipher in party, but not Wizard, or Wizard/Chanter.

first of all, unlike wizards, ciphers are actually useful before level 10. their CC is the best by far. most of their spells are faster (which is really important). they get better combat stats per level (i think). they can replenish their spells, which is crucial for longer fights (if there were any longer fights, that is.. and there was no empower point replenishment, which i think is OP and should be removed). with good speed, ascendants can spam many more casts than even a 20th level wizard (like several times more).

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

Just how good Cipher is? Why should i include cipher in party, but not Wizard, or Wizard/Chanter.

first of all, unlike wizards, ciphers are actually useful before level 10. their CC is the best by far. most of their spells are faster (which is really important). they get better combat stats per level (i think). they can replenish their spells, which is crucial for longer fights (if there were any longer fights, that is.. and there was no empower point replenishment, which i think is OP and should be removed). with good speed, ascendants can spam many more casts than even a 20th level wizard (like several times more).

 

 

 

You can break level 8 with minimal combat though (level 5 on the starting island and then non combat questing the rest of the way, deadlight and neketaka). 

 

Really "balance" is most important from about level 10 to about level 16, as that's the meat of the game.

[theBalthazar]

It is me or...

There is less difference between levels of spell now.

 

Before, in POE1, that was already not a panacea. Few spell line 7 was inferior to line 5.

 

But here in POE2, it is not... accentuated ? (apogee is... uselessness of line 8-9)

Edited June 5, 2018 by theBalthazar

[evilcat]

There is always an option to use Barbarian/Monk hire for starting levels. And switch to Wizard after level 7, game fast forwards to that. And there is several quest with minimal combat and some diplomacy to reach even level 8th.

 

As for Wizard at level 10: Rymgrins terror, fireball, Conclusive Missiles, Necro Lance Chill Fog. Not bad, quite impactful.

And you can unleash it from start of combat, not waiting for ascession. Leaving scraps for melee to finish off.

 

And each power lever/tier only makes it better, with 2 more cast of top tier in addition to everything we had.

Edited June 5, 2018 by evilcat

[Climhazzard]

Deleted

Edited June 5, 2018 by Climhazzard

[Rumpelstilskin]

There is always an option to use Barbarian/Monk hire for starting levels. And switch to Wizard after level 7, game fast forwards to that. And there is several quest with minimal combat and some diplomacy to reach even level 8th.

 

As for Wizard at level 10: Rymgrins terror, fireball, Conclusive Missiles, Necro Lance Chill Fog. Not bad, quite impactful.

And you can unleash it from start of combat, not waiting for ascession. Leaving scraps for melee to finish off.

 

And each power lever/tier only makes it better, with 2 more cast of top tier in addition to everything we had.

well, using the current game as a gauge is not very productive, since it's fairly easy even for suboptimal builds, and the only interesting fights happen early (and maybe the cave of threshing later). maybe it'll get re-balanced, but so might be quest XP, and getting 8 levels on fedex quests alone is too boring anyway, why play the game at all? yes, a wizard can throw several half-decent spells, but the amount of harm he can do can be decisive only in trash mob fights, which are easy to win with any team.

yes, cipher is probably best when MC'ed, but it makes a really great MC.

[Climhazzard]

Since I'm bored.  Maybe I'll post my thoughts on most cipher powers.

 

 

 

TIER1.

 

Mind wave:  Low damage, average cast/recovery, small aoe, overshadowed by higher tier damage powers, use time to auto attack instead.  Suggestion:  ???

 

Whisper of treason:  The main reason to make a cipher atm.

 

Valorous echoes:  You'd think it could be a counter to charm with the insightful inspiration, but that doesn't work, bug?  Suggestion:  Make it counter charm/dominate.

 

Antipathetic field:  Fast cast, low damage, low duration.  Requires a lot of micro to use properly.  Suggestion:  Make it effect target to reduce micro.  Longer duration.

 

Soul Shock:  Low damage, average cast time/recovery, small aoe, overshadowed by higher tier damage powers, use time to auto attack instead.  Suggestion:  ???

 

Tenuous grasp:  Fast cast, weak debuffs, low duration.  Suggestion:  Increase duration.

 

Eyestrike:  Long cast, good debuff, compares poorly to chill fog.  Suggestion:  3 second cast, 3 second recovery.

 

 

 

TIER2.

 

Phantom foes:  Flanked debuff, fast cast, huge aoe.  Suggestion:  Fine as is.

 

Mind blades:  Low damage, fast cast, overshadowed by higher tier damage powers, use time to auto attack instead.  Suggestion:  ???

 

Recall agony:  Situational debuff, decent.  Suggestion:  Fine as is, would prefer a longer duration.

 

Psychovampiric shield:  Fast cast, decent single target debuff, weak self buff.  Suggestion:  Tier 2 self buff.

 

Amplified thrust: Fast cast, backline protector.  Suggestion:  Fine as is.

 

Mental Binding:  Cast/recovery time equal to effect, useless.  Suggestion:  Increased duration of effect.

 

 

 

TIER3.

 

Secret horrors:  Decent debuff, fast cast time, short duration.  Suggestion:  Improve duration

 

Soul Ignition:  Overshadowed by higher tier damage powers, use time to auto attack instead.  Suggestion:  ???

 

Pain Link:  Fast cast, hard to make use of, use time to auto attack instead.  Suggestion:  Effects self as well as target, or longer duration.

 

Ectophsychic echo:  Fast cast, high micro required, low damage, use time to auto attack instead.  Suggestion:  ???

 

Fractured volition:  Single target, weak debuff, fast cast.  Suggestion: Longer duration, immobilized. 

 

Puppet master:  Direct upgrade to whisper of treason...  except it costs 3x as much and is marginally better, still great.

 

 

 

TIER4

 

Wild Leech:  Random **** inspiration, random **** affliction, single target, fast cast.  Suggestion:  Random not **** inspiration, random not **** affliction.

 

Mind lance:  Fast cast, interrupts, not exactly "major" pierce damage.  Suggestion:  Interrupts on graze.

 

Silent scream:  Long recovery, AoE stun, low damage.  Suggestion:  3 second recovery, perhaps more damage.

 

Pain Block:  Nice buff, single ally only, fast cast.  Suggestion:  Leave as is.

 

Body attunement:  Low self armor buff, low enemy armor debuff, fast cast, low duration.  Suggestion:  Longer duration

 

 

 

TIER5:

Borrowed Instincts:  Just wow....  Suggestion:  Please don't nerf this.  See tactical meld suggestion.

 

Detonate:  Exploding enemies, fun... but I'd rather wait and use amplified wave.   Suggestion:  ???

 

Tactical Meld:  Oops... this is gone.  Suggestion: Nice idea for a passive.  Replace some of the accuracy bonus from Borrowed instincts.

 

Ring Leader:  TIER5 IS LIKE CHRISTMAS  Suggestion:  Make this tier7? Or longer cast time?

 

Echoing shield:  No complaints here, fast cast.  Suggestion:  Leave as is.

 

 

TIER6:

 

Mind Plague:  Average cast and recovery for a weak debuff at tier 6...   Suggestion:  Longer duration, add frightened.

 

Amplified wave:  Huge AoE. What you respec into after dumping all the ****ty lower tier damage spells.  Suggestion:  Fine as is.

 

Disintegration:  Nice boss killer.  Suggestion:  Fine as is.

 

 

 

TIER7:

 

Ancestor's Honor:  Please...  rest is spammable....  Suggestion:  Just delete this, or have it give an extra empower use in combat.

 

Screaming souls:  Situational, is it even good against spirits?  Suggestion:  ???

 

Statis shell:  Worse than whisper of treason, except against intellect immunes.  Suggestion:  ???  Perhaps a longer duration and high accuracy.

 

 

 

TIER8:  

 

Defensive mindweb:  Long cast, long recovery, only good for one hit, useless on PotD.  Suggestion:  Make it good for more hits???

 

Reaping Knives:  Kind of cool.  Suggestion:  If this were a self buff I'd only play single class ciphers.

 

Time Parasite:  Nice buff/debuff, even after nerf.  Suggestion:  Leave as is or compensate nerf with a better duration.

 

 

 

TIER9:

 

Driving echoes:  Nice penetration buff.  Probably useful on new PotD, but tier 9?  Suggestion: ??

 

Haunting chains:  Tier 5 wizard has a much better comparable spell.  Suggestion:  Make it an AoE

 

Death of 1000 cuts:  No idea here.

 

 

General thoughts.  Many cipher spells are direct replacements for lower tier spells, basically all the damage spells with ??? after the suggestion.  Wizards have much better spells in general, aside from the charms and borrowed instinct.  They get 3 casts at every tier with the right grimoire so they don't have to wait to build up resource and generally have more than enough casts for every encounter even on new potd.  They can also self buff.  Every cipher damage spell is directly replaced by higher tier damage spells, making them useless.  The main reason to go cipher atm is to charm enemies.

 

Soul blade was nerfed into the dirt in 1.1, while rogues were buffed, some kind of joke I guess, since soul annihilation wasn't really as good as many 1 resource full attacks to begin with.  It did hit pretty hard by max level, and is unlimited use I guess, but they really overdid it imo.  Hopefully body attunement gets some love in the future too, for now it was also gutted by the nerf bat, but I can sort of see why (the fact the duration often bugged probably didn't help).

Edited June 5, 2018 by Climhazzard

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Since I'm bored.  Maybe I'll post my thoughts on most cipher powers.

 

. . . .

 

General thoughts.  Many cipher spells are direct replacements for lower tier spells, basically all the damage spells with ??? after the suggestion.  Wizards have much better spells in general, aside from the charms and borrowed instinct.  They get 3 casts at every tier with the right grimoire so they don't have to wait to build up resource and generally have more than enough casts for every encounter even on new potd.  They can also self buff.  Every cipher damage spell is directly replaced by higher tier damage spells, making them useless.  The main reason to go cipher atm is to charm enemies.

 

Soul blade was nerfed into the dirt in 1.1, while rogues were buffed, some kind of joke I guess, since soul annihilation wasn't really as good as many 1 resource full attacks to begin with.  It did hit pretty hard by max level, and is unlimited use I guess, but they really overdid it imo.  Hopefully body attunement gets some love in the future too, for now it was also gutted by the nerf bat, but I can sort of see why (the fact the duration often bugged probably didn't help).

 

 

Good thoughts. A few responses:

 

 

 

Mind wave:  Low damage, average cast/recovery, small aoe, overshadowed by higher tier damage powers, use time to auto attack instead.  Suggestion:  ???

 

It's a decent power at the level you get it, mostly because it's got an interrupt and does raw damage. The problem is the damage is low and it's completely outmoded by Amplified Wave. Ciphers do have some utility in having some low level powers just to conserve Focus costs, though. 

 

 

Valorous Echoes is quickly rendered redundant by other class choices, which is a big deal since Ciphers get limited power slots. If a cipher's going to spend a power slot on a buff or a debuff, it needs to be pretty strong (ideally a max-tier AoE, like eyestrike) or else someone else in the party is pretty quickly going to make it redundant.  

 

 

I agree antipathetic field should effect the target as well, although it didn't in the first game. Alternatively make it Foe-only damage.

 

The benefit of eyestrike over chill fog is the Foe AoE so it's easier to script. Still, inferior to Curse of Blackened Sight that wizards get at the next level. 

 

Mental binding needs its duration doubled at minimum.

 

Ectopsychic Echo is a very solid power but could use an upgrade at later levels a la Chanter's upgradeable hel-hyraf's. 

 

I don't think Wild Leech is salvageable unless it starts giving rank 3 inspirations/afflictions and even then it's eehhhh. I don't think I've ever taken it in any runthrough of either the first or second game and I certainly have never heard of anyone at all taking it and using it / liking it. 

 

Body Attunement got badly nerfed in the patch; I'd suggest that it become an AoE debuff and/or give the cipher the Robust inspiration (without both those changes, it's inferior to Expose Vulnerabilities, a lower level wizard power).

 

Screaming Souls: I'm not sure it's fixable but at minimum it should effect everything with a *bonus* against spirits and vessels.

 

 

Defensive mindweb: needs to only pop on *critical* hit, or take multiple hits, or both. 

 

Time Parasite needs to not stack with itself but otherwise don't change it.

 

Haunting Chains: AoE Terrified, Paralyzed, long duration.

 

 

I think your point re: direct replacement is well taken. TAke a cue from chanters and add upgrades for some of the physical damage powers, and that alone would flesh out a lot of the too-short power lists.

 

When you go power by power breaking it down like that though what really jumps out is how little revision Ciphers have gotten between the first and the second games. Every other caster got fundamentally reworked -- moved to per-encounter casting, priest and druid schools, wizard grimoires, etc. Even chanters clearly got a ground-up power-by-power rebuild. Ciphers just sort got sideswiped by everyone else's changes, and that's pretty much been it. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[evilcat]

As for buffs/nerf in 1.1

Body Attumed - with +2/-2 for 15 sec and for 40focus, that is not worthy.  if it was 20 sec and tier 1 for 10 focus it would be interesting tier 1 self buff, pay little, gain little. And low tier powers fall from glory as game progress, and having small buffs instead would be a mean to dump levelpoints.

With 40 focus you are so close to desintegration. (time to nerf desintegration!)

 

Soul Blade - so why not desintergate? MindWave at low levels. To use soulanihilation you need to pass on your other abillities, it is one or another. Shred discount is not big deal. There could be niche combo of backstabs and soul anihilation. But that is very specific. Maybe if that new soulblade was raw addition to your primary attack (independent to weapon) that would be something. Or if post kill spark was more substancial (something like fit inspirtation). That would open some gameplay.

But otherwise you dont really get much.

Edited June 6, 2018 by evilcat

[flazeo25]

Ciphers need a serious rework, the class been hit hardest with nerf hammer and all their active abilitys havent changed much since first game except gotten weaker. Things like reaping knives should scale with level and be self castable as well as dropped to tier 5.

[powerofvoid]

I made a mod file based on the discussion in this thread. Note that accuracy bonuses and the change to Wild Leech do not appear to show, same with the damage to not-the-target victims of Mind Lance.

 

You will need to make sure the file extension is ".gamedatabundle" and not ".gamedatabundle.txt" for it to work. It goes in:

PillarsOfEternityII_Data/override/Any_name_you_want/design/gamedata/

Here's what it's supposed to do:

0:    Soul Annihilation:    Attack Data copied from pre-1.1 datafile, should un-nerf
1:    Mind Wave:    Cast time reduced from 3s to 0.5s (e4c738a7-4d3f-407f-b035-cc76191fe26b)
1:    Soul Shock:    Cast time reduced from 3s to 0.5s (e4c738a7-4d3f-407f-b035-cc76191fe26b)
1:    Antipathetic beam:    Attack now affects target instead of... not
1:    Tenuous Grasp:    both status effect durations doubled from 15s to 30s
1:    Eyestrike: Attack (eyestrike_target) cast speed changed to cast speed from recall agony (4.5s to 3s) (eacb53e3-6eb5-422a-92ca-99cc883ae4a9)
1:    Valorous Echoes:    inspirations upgraded to tier 2 (+2 Pen, +50% graze-to-hit)

2:    Mental binding:    both status effect durations doubled from 6s to 12s
2:    Psychovampiric Shield:    Attack accuracy increased from +0 to +10
2:    Recall Agony:    Status effect duration doubled from 15s to 30s


3:    Secret Horrors: Both status effect durations increased from 12s to 20s
3:    Pain Link: Main status effect duration increased from 12s to 30s
3:    Fractured Volition: Both status effect durations doubled from 15s to 30s
3:    Soul Ignition: Cast time reduced from 3s to 0.5s (e4c738a7-4d3f-407f-b035-cc76191fe26b)
3:    Ectopsychic Echo: Damage doubled from 7-13 to 14-26

4:    Wild Leech: All afflictions and inspirations upgraded to tier 3 from tier 1
4:    Silent Scream:    Primary and secondary attack damage doubled from 12-20 to 24-40
4:    Mind Lance: Primary target damage from 22-27 to 44-54

6:    Mind Plague: Status effect Duration increased from 12s to 30s, attack accuracy increased from 0 to +10

7:    Stasis Shell: attack accuracy from +0 to +10

EDIT: It turns out I copied over the wrong thing for Soul Annihilation. I copied over the ability entry, rather than the status effect that adds raw damage. I have updated the file. My data files said it adds 10 + half focus to damage, and I don't *think* I'm on 1.1, so I left that as is.

pov_cipher_buff.gamedatabundle.txt

Edited June 6, 2018 by powerofvoid

[Tomice]

Thank you for the mod! I already considered modding the abilities myself, great to have a starting point

[Takkik]

Valorous Echoes : the problem is that most class have some way to buff themself, you have better classes with aoe buff... But the cipher have only the meh wild leech to get some inspiration. And if you multiclass with a class like rogue that don't have inspiration it's a big loose because the cipher can't even boost one of the rare class that could use the spell because he can't self buff.

Same problem with pain block.

 

body attunement: it's a buff/debuff, problem now the debuff is worse than an expose vulnerability and the buff worse than a spirit shield. And the duration... what the point to cast the spell? It will be off before it make a difference. If keep like that it need to be downgraded to PL1.

 

Wild leech : useless because it's random. Inspiration don't stack, if another character buff you before you use it you can get same attribut inspiration. Waste of time & focus.

 

Soul A. : Perhaps introduce a dmg bonus, or effect when you're full focus? to encourage to build up instead of spamming?

 

Tier 7 abilities : as MC it feel very trash tier. It's like all the good stuff was pushed to tier 8-9

 

No free spells : It's the only caster that don't get any free spells, that have perhaps the lowest selection of spell? and with the focus mechanic mean you just use same spell(s) over and over. Even in the first game I was just using the one spell that I liked.

Most interesting but time consuming : adding 1-3 new unique spell (like SA) for base class and the subclass.

Less stressing, like for priest, mix with some other class spells.

Don't need a spell for all level, perhaps something like the trickster  : PL 1, 3, 5, 7, 9.

[evilcat]

No free spells is manageble. Fighters dont get free abillities, and CIphers are this hybrid class.

 

The bigger problem is that half of powers are garbage. It is ok to need to make build decision " i really focus on CC/debuff powers with little damage as Beguiler", it is not ok, if you cant do this, since Eyestrike,  RingLeader, Whispers, and Borrow Instinct is a bit too little to call it a build decission.

Edited June 7, 2018 by evilcat

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Apologies if I'm beating a dead horse, but thought I'd cross post the list of suggestions I wrote up over in the Somethingawful discussion:

 

 

Yeah, my cliff's notes cipher rework would be

 

1) make time parasite no longer stack with itself, that's just silly

 

2) lower charm durations by about a quarter to a third

 

3) double duration of the paralyze effect on mental binding

 

4) make Haunting Chains an AoE paralyze/terrify

 

5) Have Body Attunement become an AoE Debuff / give the Robust inspiration to the Cipher / both

 

6) Generally shorten cipher power cast/recovery times across the board to compensate for the devaluing of focus vs. the per-encounter shift; at least let ciphers cast quickly after they build the focus up

 

7) rework a few other assorted powers that are too ****ty to ever even get remembered when people make lists like this (Ancestor's Honor, Wild Leech, etc)

 

Add "upgrades" of various low level cipher damage powers like Mind Blast and Ectopsychic Echo, a la the way many Chanter chants now have upgrade options. Give Antipathetic Field an option to damage target and be a Foe Beam instead of a Beam and suddenly it's *very* useful. As it is now, Ciphers have a lot of incentive to respec out of their lower-level powers repeatedly. 

 

9) Make Screaming Souls have  bonus accuracy vs spirits and vessels rather than exclusively damage spirits and vessels

 

10) Defensive Mindweb pops like a soap bubble now but the fix would need playtesting -- maybe only pop on critical? Maybe a certain number of hits, like Ironskin?

 

11) where did Tactical Meld go?

 

12) why is the list of cipher powers for tiers 9, 8, 7, and 6 literally only three active powers long? Even priests get five choices per level! Druids and Priests get five! Wizards get like umpteen, and they can use grimoires into the bargain! 

 

 

There's room for lots of other changes too if I really got in-depth. A generalized keyword pass would be really helpful; lots of items that should boost Cipher abilities don't because they forgot to code in the keyword (see, antipathetic field, which does Corrosive damage, but isn't coded "acid", so doesn't benefit from items that boost "Acid" power level, like the Chromoprismatic Quarterstaff). For that matter, it would be nice if there were items that boosted Cipher keywords, like Shred.

 

There's also a lot of room to add buffs (as in active buff castable powers) to the Cipher repertoire. Right now there's valorous echoes at tier 1 but it's really dinky, then Pain Block at tier 4, and . . I guess Echoing Shield  . . . looks like *nobody* has the Brilliant inspiration right now, would certainly be thematic for ciphers. . .

 

 

[Ophiuchus]

No free spells is manageble. Fighters dont get free abillities, and CIphers are this hybrid class.

 

The bigger problem is that half of powers are garbage. It is ok to need to make build decision " i really focus on CC/debuff powers with little damage as Beguiler", it is not ok, if you cant do this, since Eyestrike,  RingLeader, Whispers, and Borrow Instinct is a bit too little to call it a build decission.

Wouldn't you consider Druid to be a hybrid class?

[Saito Hikari]

I think a good boon to single class Cipher would be to rework Reaping Knives entirely, since as it currently behaves, it only really works if you cast it on a melee-attacking ally with fast attack speed. It has bad synergy with everyone else.

 

Turn it into a self-buff for Ciphers, and have effects that depend on the type of weapon(s) equipped. For example (and I freely admit some of the following may not be thought through very well)...

 

- Dual-wielding retains its original effect, but also adds 10% crit to hit, 20% hit to graze, and 30% graze to miss conversion when the Cipher is attacked.
- Single-handed lets the Cipher inflict damage twice for each auto-attack, as well as gaining +2 Penetration.
- Sword and board increases accuracy by +10 and lets the Cipher regenerate 10% of max focus each time they take -any- damage, regardless of source.
- Wands and scepters deal 1.5m area of effect damage.
- Rod damage is entirely converted to Raw if it will do more damage, gains +1 penetration, and generates 30% more focus.
- Firearms are given 40% miss to graze, 20% graze to hit, and 10% hit to crit conversion.

- Bows and crossbow attacks that miss their intended target will reroll against the nearest enemy within 3m.
- All effects add some raw damage. Duration is also set to 25 seconds base.

 

Obviously, the skill would have to be renamed to something that fits.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Saito Hikari