Will this be the last of CRPGs WRTP now that Deadfire has flopped

[hadiqa4444]

Maybe a little bit to early to call and i really really really really hope im wrong. No I REALLY REALLY hope im wrong

 

But as of writing this Deadfire is number 35 steam top sellers. A few days ago it was well out of the top 50. 

 

Games that do well allways sell alot of copies when they are first released. This window of opportunity is rapidly closing. All the indicators are currently trending towards Deadfire possibly being a disaster.

 

What does this mean for lovers of the old Ifinity engine games like BG2. 

 

Is this the end????????

 

Or has this only happend because of bad management decisions within obsidian, eg They could have devoted the resources from Tyranny to making Deadfire bigger, better and less buggier instead of making another tiny game that flopped harder then Deadfire

 

And lets face it the three expansions are not expansions they are the game split up into 4 parts and being released over 6 months for extra cost. If they where proper expansions they would have been released after Deadfire was successful in one big part about 1 year later. Obsidian have been working on these "expansions" concurrently with Deadfire before it was even released.

 

 I personaly cant see this niche in the industry recovering from this.

Edited June 1, 2018 by hadiqa4444

[Arranvin]

Obvious troll post is obvious. Away get back under your bridge.

[hadiqa4444]

Obvious troll post is obvious. Away get back under your bridge.

how is it a troll post?

 

Are steam charts run by trolls?

[Yosharian]

How many people actually played the original BG2? It's a niche market.

 

I don't think it's the death of the genre at all.

 

But devs and fans alike need to be realistic about the audience for Infinity Engine-successor games.

 

Chasing the mainstream is a waste of time.

[Tagaziel]

People who use them to prop up their bashing of Obsidian are.

[hadiqa4444]

How many people actually played the original BG2? It's a niche market.

 

I don't think it's the death of the genre at all.

 

But devs and fans alike need to be realistic about the audience for Infinity Engine-successor games.

 

Chasing the mainstream is a waste of time.

ahh BG2 sold 4 million copies from memory when it released.

 

Plus theres the enhanced editions and what copies have sold over the last 15 years.

 

Pobably well over 5 million 

Edited June 1, 2018 by hadiqa4444

[hadiqa4444]

People who use them to prop up their bashing of Obsidian are.

Im not trying to bash obsidian 

 

Im being a realist. If anyone who is an obsidian fanboy is reading this im not trying to offend you im just being real

[SonicMage117]

There will always be sh!t*y Crpg's. It's far easier to make a bad crpg than it is a bad racing game or bad hack and slash game. So there's always more bad cpg's than other games in their respective genre.

 

As far as Deadfire flopping, it's too early to tell. Has it been "successful" according to developer standard? What we members think, matters not. Why not? We don't really know where the company is at or what their quota is. We also don't know the longevity forecast for sales, my guess is that it won't do well but I may be wrong.

 

And yeah, I think we all know Deadfire won't sell on consoles. The first game is already one of the worst selling console games this gen, not sure why they'd even bother with porting the sequel. Meh, prove me wrong!

Edited June 1, 2018 by SonicMage117

[hadiqa4444]

There will always be sh!t*y Crpg's. It's far easier to make a bad crpg than it is a bad racing game or bad hack and slash game. So there's always more bad cpg's than other games in their respective genre.

 

As far as Deadfire flopping, it's too early to tell. Has it been "successful" according to developer standard? What we members think, matters not. Why not? We don't really know where the company is at or what their quota is. We also don't know the longevity forecast for sales, my guess is that it won't do well but I may be wrong.

 

And yeah, I think we all know Deadfire won't sell on consoles. The first game is already one of the worst selling console games this gen, not sure why they'd even bother with porting the sequel. Meh, prove me wrong!

what have they done wrong?

 

I dont think the indusrty is sick of CRGS look at divinity OS2

 

I honestly think they screwed up bad with Tyranny as i said in my OP and these so called "expansions"

 

I would love to hear other poeples opinions

[SonicMage117]

What did they do wrong with Deadfire, you mean?

 

The development of Deadfire was a mess, unfocused and all over the place due to adding so many new features like multi-classing and sailing. The ambition of doing all these new things with classic Obsidian twist and innovation was great but in the end they bit off more than they could chew. The end result is a passable/good game but certainly not goty by any means.

 

Why do I not think the longevity of PC sales will hold up? Simple. Too many great titles coming out from Mid June til year's end. Even crpg fans will forget about Deadfire, instead of buying it (even when they see it on sale), they'll rather use that money on something newer, bigger, better.

 

Pillars 1 on console is great, they did everything right with the port itself. My guess on where they went wrong - marketing. I honestly console owners even ever heard of it, I mean, I know for fact that most console owners have never heard of it still til this day lol It's hard to get a Crpg to sell well on console, it's a more hardcore rpg audience so you have to really re-learn and rethink marketing from a business standpoint.

[sterrius]

With a 400% goal on the crownfunding i could say Pillars II: Deadfire was a sucess from day 1. 

 

While 4M is below what this game likely costed (Specially fully voiced), i also doubt that deadfire total cost reached very far from 10-15 Million dollars. (if it reached this point at all).  

 

So even with a low sale number they will make a profit.  Also sales are not "wasted" hosting MP servers or something like that. As a full single player game monthly sales goes to patchs and profit.   So you can´t think only on first month sales but also on the long run with this game. 

 

What this can likely influence is the DLC policy.  If the sales are low the DLC´s will likely not pay themselves and the next pillars will be more like POE1.  With the game being more closed and a DLC being just a extra if the game is a sucess. 

Also likely DLC2 and 3 will be small as they can get to save money. 

 

We need to remember that while making games today cost a lot.  Pillars is far far away from a GTA V and being a AAA game.   Its the reason those games where reborn this decade, they are "cheap" to make compared to a full 3D game + Engine. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by sterrius

[SonicMage117]

With a 400% goal on the crownfunding i could say Pillars II: Deadfire was a sucess from day 1.

 

The fundraiser was a success, yes, I agree.

 

Funds from backers were for game development, those aren't counted as sales success by any means and their quota for business is only calculated just months before release to determine how success is driven and/or percieved. As with any other business company with or without backer funds.

[mammasaura]

Maybe a little bit to early to call and i really really really really hope im wrong. No I REALLY REALLY hope im wrong

 

But as of writing this Deadfire is number 35 steam top sellers. A few days ago it was well out of the top 50. 

 

Games that do well allways sell alot of copies when they are first released. This window of opportunity is rapidly closing. All the indicators are currently trending towards Deadfire possibly being a disaster.

 

What does this mean for lovers of the old Ifinity engine games like BG2. 

 

Is this the end????????

 

Or has this only happend because of bad management decisions within obsidian, eg They could have devoted the recourse from Tyranny to making Deadfire bigger, better and less buggier instead of making another tiny game that flopped harder then Deadfire

 

And lets face it the three expansions are not expansions they are the game split up into 4 parts and being released over 6 months for extra cost. If they where proper expansions they would have been released after Deadfire was successful in one big part about 1 year later. Obsidian have been working on these "expansions" concurrently with Deadfire before it was even released.

 

 I personaly cant see this niche in the industry recovering from this.

 

Can you elaborate a bit more, please? I see many assumptions but not that much content to validate the title, thanks

[Katarack21]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: No, and this thread is based on a series of false assumptions with no evidence.

[Amigo345]

They need to learn some lessons from this. I mean how could they not see ship combat will be bashed by everyone because of it being so bland and uningaging. Short, boring story, buggy game overall. I mean you release a game for PC with bugged mouse clicking? Cmon man. This game is not good and no wonder its sales are low.

[SonicMage117]

Im not trying to bash obsidian

 

Im being a realist. If anyone who is an obsidian fanboy is reading this im not trying to offend you im just being real

I'm not offended, I re-read your post and see what you mean now...

 

See, people who are enjoy Obsidian's games are going to be offended for the real-world reasons I stated in my previous post, especially when they can't disprove or argue it. I mean, I'm a backer just like anyone else, I just care less I guess lol I don't know

 

The console versions of Pillars 1 are recorded as one of the worst selling games this gen. If we look it up, we'll find that's true. It would be pretty shadey to assume the sequel will sell any better than the first, especially with tons of games releasing this year and next. Why would a console gamer who loves rpg's care for Deadfire when they have so many other games?

 

Why will Steam gamers care about Deadfire in a few months with so many new games releasing? I really don't have anything to prove here, my questions speak for themselves. I'm not even going to talk about GoG sales because, even being top seller on GoG for a year wouldn't be a feat or an accomplishment for Obs.

 

This is perhaps the worst place to write such a thread since there are a few guard dogs patroling the forum, people will defend anything they like to the death, blah blah blah. However, I commend you for your bravery!

 

On the bright side, if the game fails, there are plenty of other games that will succeed so if the game doesn't do well in the end, it's not the end of the world and Obsidian's doors won't be closing so, I don't see the wrong in asking questions, there's nothing misleading about it.

Edited June 1, 2018 by SonicMage117

[hadiqa4444]

Short answer: No.

 

Long answer: No, and this thread is based on a series of false assumptions with no evidence.

How is saying the game is number 35 on steam a false assumption with no evidence?

 

Dont you have steam ? Go have a look for youself.

 

Number 35 is clearly not an ideal situation to be in .

 

And all i said is the game is currently trending to not sell well which is pretty clear from the evidence.

 

 wish some people would take there fanboy hat off and look at the facts sometimes....jeeesus christ

Edited June 1, 2018 by hadiqa4444

[PizzaSHARK]

How many people actually played the original BG2? It's a niche market.

 

I don't think it's the death of the genre at all.

 

But devs and fans alike need to be realistic about the audience for Infinity Engine-successor games.

 

Chasing the mainstream is a waste of time.

 

Which is why I think they just need to jettison d20 mechanics and cliches entirely and just make the game they clearly want to make.

 

And then actually do some goddamned ****ing QA for once in their lives.  After Deadfire I absolutely cannot recommend Obsidian games to anyone before they've been out for at least 3-6 months.  ****ing Bugsidian...

[hadiqa4444]

 

How many people actually played the original BG2? It's a niche market.

 

I don't think it's the death of the genre at all.

 

But devs and fans alike need to be realistic about the audience for Infinity Engine-successor games.

 

Chasing the mainstream is a waste of time.

 

Which is why I think they just need to jettison d20 mechanics and cliches entirely and just make the game they clearly want to make.

 

And then actually do some goddamned ****ing QA for once in their lives.  After Deadfire I absolutely cannot recommend Obsidian games to anyone before they've been out for at least 3-6 months.  ****ing Bugsidian...

 

what are you talking about?, Deadfire hasnt been released yet its still in BETA

Edited June 1, 2018 by hadiqa4444

[Selky]

Possibly? Crowdfunding another RTwP game seems dangerous at this point, I doubt they'll get as many pledges and fig funds after Deadfire. I'm certainly not pledging again.

[hadiqa4444]

What did they do wrong with Deadfire, you mean?

 

The development of Deadfire was a mess, unfocused and all over the place due to adding so many new features like multi-classing and sailing. The ambition of doing all these new things with classic Obsidian twist and innovation was great but in the end they bit off more than they could chew. The end result is a passable/good game but certainly not goty by any means.

 

Why do I not think the longevity of PC sales will hold up? Simple. Too many great titles coming out from Mid June til year's end. Even crpg fans will forget about Deadfire, instead of buying it (even when they see it on sale), they'll rather use that money on something newer, bigger, better.

 

Pillars 1 on console is great, they did everything right with the port itself. My guess on where they went wrong - marketing. I honestly console owners even ever heard of it, I mean, I know for fact that most console owners have never heard of it still til this day lol It's hard to get a Crpg to sell well on console, it's a more hardcore rpg audience so you have to really re-learn and rethink marketing from a business standpoint.

yeah you make a really good point here.

 

They should have just left pillars alone and not introduced multi-classing, the boats and the new mechanics and just concentrated on making a bigger better game with a more immersive narrative

[PizzaSHARK]

Possibly? Crowdfunding another RTwP game seems dangerous at this point, I doubt they'll get as many pledges and fig funds after Deadfire. I'm certainly not pledging again.

 

Yeah.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.  Pillars was underwhelming and much less than I had been lead to believe it would be, but pretty understandable given the dire straits that Obsidian found themselves in - and they DID do a pretty good job of improving it markedly through patches and DLC.

 

Deadfire, though... man, they delayed the release by a month and they let a ****ing MEMORY LEAK through??  I can understand dumb UI bugs, little **** like that that can even be kind of funny for a little while and charming in its own way (see: Bethesda Softworks games.)  But gameplay-affecting memory leaks, the ****ing save-import function not working properly (or at all...), level upscaling not working... yeah.  No more backing Bugsidian products til they show me they're willing to actually do some serious QA before pushing stuff out the door.

 

I would genuinely prefer to wait another month for release to get a mostly "bug free" experience than to get the game on time, but with so many critical bugs that I might as well have waited a month before playing anyway.

[Apatia]

 

Short answer: No.

 

Long answer: No, and this thread is based on a series of false assumptions with no evidence.

How is saying the game is number 35 on steam a false assumption with no evidence?

 

 

I'll use your own logic and point out that the basic version is number 5 and Obsidian edition (which costs over $80) number 25 in GOG so it must have sold millions and is now  on it's way to being the most successful game ever.

Being "number 35" on Steam tells us absolutely nothing. How many copies did it sell this week and how many overall to this date? Does your numbers take into account every place it is been sold or just Steam? Start with that and let's continue from there.

[Wormerine]

yeah you make a really good point here.

 

They should have just left pillars alone and not introduced multi-classing, the boats and the new mechanics and just concentrated on making a bigger better game with a more immersive narrative

..but they focused on making a bigger, better game. Deadfire is a bigger, better game. Muti-classing is making character building a better, bigger system, sailing is bigger better stronghold.

 

I agree that narrative is a step back in couple areas - and reading/watching review that tends to be the main complaint. Unfortunately. Storytelling isn’t like game mechanics, and it is difficult to simply improve on it, especially when it was really good in the first place.

[marimo]

Unless you have some kind of insider information I don't think you know enough to confidently proclaim it a flop.