The gods, godlikes and speculation on the nature thereof

[Syurtpiutha]

OK, so Pallegina's personal quest points out that there are godlike of Skaen (and the reason we haven't met them yet). And the main story casually mentions the purpose of Godlikes. So it stands to reason every god has them and that the different species of Godlike are linked to particular gods. So I now feel the need for speculation as to which type of Godlike belongs to which god and what the leftover gods godlikes look like.

So here's my take (feel free to disagree, even vehemently, preferably politely):

Marine Godlike: Ondra. Pretty much stated as such.

Avian Godlike: Hylea. See above

 

Fire Godlikes: Magran. Simple really. Goddess of fire and they get more resilient the more pressure is applied (their ability). Testing their mettle. A case could also be made for Abydon, but Magran seems the more likely one.

 

Nature Godlikes: Galawain. I base this on what Galawain looks like in his appearance in the discussions between the gods and him being the only god with a nature-y theme. I really don't see another deity as a match there.

 

Death Godlikes: Berath. A case could be made for Rymrgand (they both definitely have a death-y feel to them), but I feel Rymrgand's domain of cold, stillness and entropy would probably be better captured in something else. The Deathlike's ability is called Death's Usher, which brings one of Berath's forms to mind. Besides, since bonewhite seems to be a theme with Rymrgand I'd expect that to be more reflected in his minions.

 

Moon Godlike: Either Abydon of Wael. Abydon because Ondra loves the moons, and is implied to have loved Abydon as well in the White March Part II. Also had a moon launched at his head by Ondra. The healing power of moonlikes also fits with Abydon's theme of preservation. Primary issue there would be why wouldn't his godlikes look different since his death, as Abydon doesn't remember what happened. My other guess would be Wael, for the simple reason that there is no obvious connection between Wael and the moon, the perpetrator of Abydon's death via moon being a mystery you figure out and the entire point of the moonlike's power being to make something pointless (injuring the moonlike causes it to heal, nullifying damage). That seems like something that fits the contrarian God.

As for the other gods:

Skaen: Scarred and misshapen. Kinda like the effigy but born that way. No ears and nose, black flint eyes.

Woedica: Headshape definitely involves something crown-like. Maybe burns.

Rymrgand: Bonewhite fur, horns like the beast of winter. Power involves some kind of paralysis or decay.

Eothas: Think of descriptions given of Saint Waidwen.

 

Abydon: Metal protrusions coming from the skin. Semimechanical bodyparts.

Wael: Dunno, but it definitely involves Eyes where they shouldn't be. Probably. At least a third one.

 

Any other ideas or theories?

[gkathellar]

Do we know that a god can only produce one type of godlike? It seems to me that any given deity might have multiple different godlike associated with their multiple different aspects. Likewise, more generic godlike might be associated with multiple different deities - like, sure, Fire Godlike are typically seen as Magranic, but couldn't they also be Abydon's (their ability is "Battle-Forged" after all)? Death godlike are often associated with Berath, but Rymrgand also seems like he might create them, or Eothas in his Gaun aspect. I wouldn't assume we're looking at a one-to-one function, here.

 

I thought Moon Godlike were generally believed to be Ondra's? Doesn't really make sense to me that they'd be Abydon's, since the general implication of WM2 is that the whole "Ondra loves the moon" thing is actually the story of her and Abydon, with many of the specifics having been lost to the ages (the biggest clue here is the music - there's a bard in Stalwart's tavern singing about Ondra and the moon, and an instrumental version of the same track plays as the background music at the Abbey of the Fallen Moon). I could also see an association with Eothas, since he's a god of light and healing.

Edited May 28, 2018 by gkathellar

[White Phoenix]

Moon Godlike is Ondra's. If you play one you are called Ngati's child. Just like Tekehu. It seems Godlike can show various aspects of divine portfolio. It would be cool if Moon Godlike were one of Eothas aspects (there is some interesting theory about it in Deadfire).

 

I thought Nature Godlike could be blessed by Eothas as he had some ties with nature by spring and agriculture themes. But yeah, Nature Godlike are definitively Galawain's as he is a patron of the beasts and wild life.

 

Death Godlike is really strange. It is stated they are Berath's children but they have some characteristics for Rymrgand's domains like bad luck and disasters. They are also very bony and fleshy (decay domain?). 

 

Fire Godlike: Magran. Although some people connected them with Eothas as fire is also his element (the sun).

 

My thoughts for another types:

 

Skaen and Woedica can look similar as both have deformed faces. A lot of scars and burns.

Abydon: I see them as metal-like creatures. Probably similar to the Eyeless.

Rymrgand: Ice and white skin. Some aurochs' features.

Wael: No eyes. Maybe some kind of androgyny.

Hylea: Birdlike with colorful feathers. Maybe some of them are more animal-like than human.

Eothas: Their skin covered with light and sparks like ethereal beings. Headshapes similar to the sun rays. Spring variant similar to Nature Godlike.

Edited May 28, 2018 by White Phoenix

[Yria]

Moon godlike are Ondra's. NPC react to you both in White March and in Deadfire saying that you are lucky to have been touched by the Lady of Lament/Ngati.

 

Death godlike are also definetely Berath's, it's openly stated in both games on multiple occasions. For example, fampyrs in Russetwood fall on their knees and ask a permission to worship "the Berath's chosen", Berathian priest in the Sacred Stair makes a huge fuss about you, you can convince Yseir to give you his sword by saying that you are Berath's blessed child, etc. I think even Raedric went full "My prayers have been answered, a Berath's chosen has blessed me with her presence, I must be doing everything right then!" on my poor Death godlike when she came to kill him on Kolsc's request. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Yria

[Syurtpiutha]

Do we know that a god can only produce one type of godlike? It seems to me that any given deity might have multiple different godlike associated with their multiple different aspects. Likewise, more generic godlike might be associated with multiple different deities - like, sure, Fire Godlike are typically seen as Magranic, but couldn't they also be Abydon's (their ability is "Battle-Forged" after all)? Death godlike are often associated with Berath, but Rymrgand also seems like he might create them, or Eothas in his Gaun aspect. I wouldn't assume we're looking at a one-to-one function, here.

 

I thought Moon Godlike were generally believed to be Ondra's? Doesn't really make sense to me that they'd be Abydon's, since the general implication of WM2 is that the whole "Ondra loves the moon" thing is actually the story of her and Abydon, with many of the specifics having been lost to the ages (the biggest clue here is the music - there's a bard in Stalwart's tavern singing about Ondra and the moon, and an instrumental version of the same track plays as the background music at the Abbey of the Fallen Moon). I could also see an association with Eothas, since he's a god of light and healing.

 

Yeah, this whole exercise was based on the assumption of one godlike per god which indeed has not been stated as fact. But in Pallegina's quest they specifically talk about Skaen-godlike. And being able to detect them in the womb. Based on that I assumed they had certain features that identified them as such (physical or otherwise) but I could of course be wrong. Since the godlike also seem to serve as an emergency powersource for the gods (as Magran lets slip) I figured they'd mark their property.

 

As for the moon godlike, it is possible that their name is just one the people of Eora gave them (based on the growths on their head that are kinda moon-like) but doesn't actually describe anything about their nature. I'm more inclined to throw them in with Wael, because misdirection seems like their/its/her/his jam.

[marimo]

I'm very curious as to what an Eothasian godlike would look like, and also what Eothas himself looks like in god form. I don't think we've seen anything besides the giant statue form, and the statue was fashioned to look like Maros Nua after all, not Eothas. 

 

I'm also curious about chimes, since it seems like that's what causes the physical changes to godlike. Why are Skaen godlike deformed at birth but Pallegina apparently didn't start to change until puberty? Would the Watcher have started to turn into a death godlike if Eothas hadn't removed Berath's chime? Are there godlike who never develop physical changes at all? I have so many questions. 

[Syurtpiutha]

Moon Godlike is Ondra's. If you play one you are called Ngati's child. Just like Tekehu. It seems Godlike can show various aspects of divine portfolio. It would be cool if Moon Godlike were one of Eothas aspects (there is some interesting theory about it in Deadfire).

 

I thought Nature Godlike could be blessed by Eothas as he had some ties with nature by spring and agriculture themes. But yeah, Nature Godlike are definitively Galawain's as he is a patron of the beasts and wild life.

 

Death Godlike is really strange. It is stated they are Berath's children but they have some characteristics for Rymrgand's domains like bad luck and disasters. They are also very bony and fleshy (decay domain?). 

 

Fire Godlike: Magran. Although some people connected them with Eothas as fire is also his element (the sun).

 

My thoughts for another types:

 

Skaen and Woedica can look similar as both have deformed faces. A lot of scars and burns.

Abydon: I see them as metal-like creatures. Probably similar to the Eyeless.

Rymrgand: Ice and white skin. Some aurochs' features.

Wael: No eyes. Maybe some kind of androgyny.

Hylea: Birdlike with colorful feathers. Maybe some of them are more animal-like than human.

Eothas: Their skin covered with light and sparks like ethereal beings. Headshapes similar to the sun rays. Spring variant similar to Nature Godlike.

 

Moon godlike are Ondra's. NPC react to you both in White March and in Deadfire saying that you are lucky to have been touched by the Lady of Lament/Ngati.

 

Death godlike are also definetely Berath's, it's openly stated in both games on multiple occasions. For example, fampyrs in Russetwood fall on their knees and ask a permission to worship "the Berath's chosen", Berathian priest in the Sacred Stair makes a huge fuss about you, you can convince Yseir to give you his sword by saying that you are Berath's blessed child, etc. I think even Raedric went full "My prayers have been answered, a Berath's chosen has blessed me with her presence, I must be doing everything right then!" on my poor Death godlike when she came to kill him on Kolsc's request. 

 

 

Moon Godlike is Ondra's. If you play one you are called Ngati's child. Just like Tekehu. It seems Godlike can show various aspects of divine portfolio. It would be cool if Moon Godlike were one of Eothas aspects (there is some interesting theory about it in Deadfire).

 

I thought Nature Godlike could be blessed by Eothas as he had some ties with nature by spring and agriculture themes. But yeah, Nature Godlike are definitively Galawain's as he is a patron of the beasts and wild life.

 

Death Godlike is really strange. It is stated they are Berath's children but they have some characteristics for Rymrgand's domains like bad luck and disasters. They are also very bony and fleshy (decay domain?). 

 

Fire Godlike: Magran. Although some people connected them with Eothas as fire is also his element (the sun).

 

My thoughts for another types:

 

Skaen and Woedica can look similar as both have deformed faces. A lot of scars and burns.

Abydon: I see them as metal-like creatures. Probably similar to the Eyeless.

Rymrgand: Ice and white skin. Some aurochs' features.

Wael: No eyes. Maybe some kind of androgyny.

Hylea: Birdlike with colorful feathers. Maybe some of them are more animal-like than human.

Eothas: Their skin covered with light and sparks like ethereal beings. Headshapes similar to the sun rays. Spring variant similar to Nature Godlike.

 

Thanks for the responses. I never played the game as a death or moon godlike (played nature once) since the godlikes didn't have enough face/hair customization.

 

As for people in the world making claims about your heritage: they could be wrong. Since there are no books that clarify it in the game, nor do the gods ever explicitly claim a godlike as one of theirs (except for Hylea and Ondra when it comes to Palegina and Tekehu), so personally I'm not inclined to take that as undisputed fact (unless the writers/creators of the game run in here to claim otherwise). Especially since the Gods themselves are pretty tight-lipped on the whole thing.

 

As for death godlike and bad luck: I thought that was superstition rather than an attribute they actually had.

I though agriculture was more a Gaun thing than an Eothas thing in general. I can see how that would work but the growths nature-godlike have always struck me more as a camouflage thing/part of nature thing rather than agriculture.

[Skazz]

I'm very curious as to what an Eothasian godlike would look like, and also what Eothas himself looks like in god form.

 

Woden's memories in PoE 1 describe Waidwen as a man with a halo of blinding light around his head, so I imagine Eothas' godlikes would take on similar characteristics. The whole three stars motif would probably be incorporated somewhere in there, too.

 

As for Eothas' god form, it may be extremely non-canon with that we know right now, but I've always enjoyed this fanart's depiction of him:

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Skazz

[Tarlonniel]

Those are amazing. I like them much better than what we got in the game. Ah well.

[marimo]

I'm assuming when he took over Waidwen that it looked similar to when he took over the statue: the glowing eyes and stars and flames on his head. That's a neat fanart, though I wonder if Eothas will just look like the statue going forward because well, the design already exists and it's pretty cool.  

[Skazz]

Those are amazing. I like them much better than what we got in the game. Ah well.

 

I had a very similar reaction when I saw Abydon in Deadfire. See, I don't agree that all of the gods look better in the fanart than they do in-game, but there is one stroke of artistic brilliance in that fanart's depiction of Abydon that, to me, makes it trump the version(s) that we get to meet canonically:

 

He's eyeless.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Skazz

[Yria]

 Why are Skaen godlike deformed at birth but Pallegina apparently didn't start to change until puberty? 

 

I think the changes she was referring to when talking about her teen years were the usual puberty ones. She was born looking like an avian godlike, and then she got the standard girl stuff on top of that while surrounded exclusively by men, and that was too much for her to handle. 

 

Are there godlike who never develop physical changes at all? I have so many questions. 

 

There aren't if guidebook vol. 1 is to be believed. They always have obviously deformed heads and hands at the very least. 

 

The weirdest part of the whole chimes business to me was that if the Watcher is a Death godlike they already have Berath's chime in them. Why would she need to put an additional one in? I realise that gameplay-wise we don't choose our race until that scene is finished, but story-wise it felt off. And then Eothas goes all generous on you and says "Hey I've just removed your chime, you are no longer tied to Berath! Rejoice!". Right, yaaay. How about that one chime that I had in me since birth though? 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Yria

[marimo]

 

 Why are Skaen godlike deformed at birth but Pallegina apparently didn't start to change until puberty? 

 

I think the changes she was referring to when talking about her teen years were the usual puberty ones. She was born looking like an avian godlike, and then she got the standard girl stuff on top of that while surrounded exclusively by men, and that was too much for her to handle. 

 

Are there godlike who never develop physical changes at all? I have so many questions. 

 

There aren't if guidebook vol. 1 is to be believed. They always have obviously deformed heads and hands at the very least. 

 

The weirdest part of the whole chimes business to me was that if the Watcher is a Death godlike they already have Berath's chime in them. Why would she need to put an additional one in? I realise that gameplay-wise we don't choose our race until that scene is finished, but story-wise it felt off. And then Eothas goes all generous on you and says "Hey I've just removed your chime, you are no longer tied to Berath! Rejoice!". Right, yaaay. How about that one chime that I had in me since birth though? 

 

 

 

I went back and watched the conversation again just now (starts at 10:15). Seems like she's talking about both the usual puberty changes and godlike related changes and she finds both distressing, but severing the chime reversed some of the godlike changes and that was enough to keep her from killing herself. Though it also sounds like she's been obviously godlike her whole life so maybe godlike are born with some of their physical characteristics but those become more pronounced at puberty? 

 

That's a good point about death godlike Watchers that I never thought of. That would be kinda weird.

Edited May 28, 2018 by marimo

[MaximilianXimenez]

Beyond the obvious: Magran=Fire, Ondra=Marine and Moon, Galawain=Nature, Hylea=Avian and Berath=death, we do have some hints at the other gods.

 

Here is some incredibly early concept art for PoE 1. The godlike on the left doesn't really map to anything- the middle is clearly fire, the one on the right could be an early attempt at Marine godlike... but I'm going to guess that if Eothas has godlike, they look like the one on the left.

 

I believe the Pillars of Eternity 2 guidebook mentions Skaen and Rymyrgand godlike: the Skaen Godlike, as others have said, resembles the effigy with black gems for eyes, no nose or lips and scarred or rotted skin. Rymyrgand's godlike, at least those born to Huana, are said to be unusually short (IIRC the godlike in question, a Saint whose name escapes me, was only 4 feet tall compared to the 8+ feet aumaua), hunched and albino, who caused things to die in their presence. I'd honestly rather they have more cold or ice powers associated with them, but maybe there's separate "ice godlike" just as there are both moon and marine godlike.


That leaves Woedica, Abydon and Wael out. Abydon's probably the easiest to figure out; his godlike would look like cyborgs, or perhaps D&D Warforged. Wael could go a few ways; they could have two giant eyes, one giant eye like a cyclops, eyes all over their bodies in odd places, or maybe they would just be weird creepy shapeshifters whose bodies were always changing. I could see trans, genderqueer or nonbinary godlikes of wael being very common: a man one day, a woman the next, maybe something in between the day after. Woedica is the hardest for me to figure out, because all of her portfolio has to do with immaterial concepts relating to governance, politics and interpersonal relationships. It's much easier to have a guy's head be on fire than to have a guy's head be a physical manifestation of law. I do like others' suggestions of crown-like growths being on a godlike's head, maybe burned skin, but I could also see them as having skin like paper with laws written on it.

Edited May 28, 2018 by MaximilianXimenez

[flamesium]

Wael would probably make his Godlike just look like regular people so nobody knew.

[Yria]

Woedica didn't have burned skin until she had some conflict with other gods, and Magran gave her a facial. So I don't think her godlike should have any burns, that would be like assuming that a mouse with a severed tail should give birth to tailless mice, no? 

I do like the idea about crown-like growths though. 

 

Wael would probably make his Godlike just look like regular people so nobody knew.

 

That sounds like a very waelit thing to do 

[MaximilianXimenez]

Woedica didn't have burned skin until she had some conflict with other gods, and Magran gave her a facial. So I don't think her godlike should have any burns, that would be like assuming that a mouse with a severed tail should give birth to tailless mice, no? 

I do like the idea about crown-like growths though. 

 

Wael would probably make his Godlike just look like regular people so nobody knew.

 

That sounds like a very waelit thing to do 

Abydon wasn't made of metal until his girlfriend gave him a satellite-sized kiss, but most people expect his godlike to be metallic.

[Skazz]

If WM is any indication, I think there's a good chance that Abydon's godlike would end up looking like downscaled versions of the Eyeless.

 

They were, after all, described as being parts of him through which he could be reformed in need. Going by Deadfire, this makes them suspiciously similar to godlike.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Skazz

[marimo]

Beyond the obvious: Magran=Fire, Ondra=Marine and Moon, Galawain=Nature, Hylea=Avian and Berath=death, we do have some hints at the other gods.

 

Here is some incredibly early concept art for PoE 1. The godlike on the left doesn't really map to anything- the middle is clearly fire, the one on the right could be an early attempt at Marine godlike... but I'm going to guess that if Eothas has godlike, they look like the one on the left.

 

I believe the Pillars of Eternity 2 guidebook mentions Skaen and Rymyrgand godlike: the Skaen Godlike, as others have said, resembles the effigy with black gems for eyes, no nose or lips and scarred or rotted skin. Rymyrgand's godlike, at least those born to Huana, are said to be unusually short (IIRC the godlike in question, a Saint whose name escapes me, was only 4 feet tall compared to the 8+ feet aumaua), hunched and albino, who caused things to die in their presence. I'd honestly rather they have more cold or ice powers associated with them, but maybe there's separate "ice godlike" just as there are both moon and marine godlike.

 

 

That leaves Woedica, Abydon and Wael out. Abydon's probably the easiest to figure out; his godlike would look like cyborgs, or perhaps D&D Warforged. Wael could go a few ways; they could have two giant eyes, one giant eye like a cyclops, eyes all over their bodies in odd places, or maybe they would just be weird creepy shapeshifters whose bodies were always changing. I could see trans, genderqueer or nonbinary godlikes of wael being very common: a man one day, a woman the next, maybe something in between the day after. Woedica is the hardest for me to figure out, because all of her portfolio has to do with immaterial concepts relating to governance, politics and interpersonal relationships. It's much easier to have a guy's head be on fire than to have a guy's head be a physical manifestation of law. I do like others' suggestions of crown-like growths being on a godlike's head, maybe burned skin, but I could also see them as having skin like paper with laws written on it.

That does look like an Eothas godlike, interesting!

[Syurtpiutha]

Beyond the obvious: Magran=Fire, Ondra=Marine and Moon, Galawain=Nature, Hylea=Avian and Berath=death, we do have some hints at the other gods.

 

Here is some incredibly early concept art for PoE 1. The godlike on the left doesn't really map to anything- the middle is clearly fire, the one on the right could be an early attempt at Marine godlike... but I'm going to guess that if Eothas has godlike, they look like the one on the left.

 

I believe the Pillars of Eternity 2 guidebook mentions Skaen and Rymyrgand godlike: the Skaen Godlike, as others have said, resembles the effigy with black gems for eyes, no nose or lips and scarred or rotted skin. Rymyrgand's godlike, at least those born to Huana, are said to be unusually short (IIRC the godlike in question, a Saint whose name escapes me, was only 4 feet tall compared to the 8+ feet aumaua), hunched and albino, who caused things to die in their presence. I'd honestly rather they have more cold or ice powers associated with them, but maybe there's separate "ice godlike" just as there are both moon and marine godlike.

 

 

That leaves Woedica, Abydon and Wael out. Abydon's probably the easiest to figure out; his godlike would look like cyborgs, or perhaps D&D Warforged. Wael could go a few ways; they could have two giant eyes, one giant eye like a cyclops, eyes all over their bodies in odd places, or maybe they would just be weird creepy shapeshifters whose bodies were always changing. I could see trans, genderqueer or nonbinary godlikes of wael being very common: a man one day, a woman the next, maybe something in between the day after. Woedica is the hardest for me to figure out, because all of her portfolio has to do with immaterial concepts relating to governance, politics and interpersonal relationships. It's much easier to have a guy's head be on fire than to have a guy's head be a physical manifestation of law. I do like others' suggestions of crown-like growths being on a godlike's head, maybe burned skin, but I could also see them as having skin like paper with laws written on it.

 

Thanks, that was very informative.

[Aridea]

 

I'm very curious as to what an Eothasian godlike would look like, and also what Eothas himself looks like in god form.

 

Woden's memories in PoE 1 describe Waidwen as a man with a halo of blinding light around his head, so I imagine Eothas' godlikes would take on similar characteristics. The whole three stars motif would probably be incorporated somewhere in there, too.

 

As for Eothas' god form, it may be extremely non-canon with that we know right now, but I've always enjoyed this fanart's depiction of him:

 

 

 

 

 

This is... much better than the game art. Not that I dislike game art, but this is wicked.

 

As for OP.

Didn't the Watcher see what Waidwen looked like when possessed by Eothas? It was basically a head full of light, you can't really see whats there. I was assuming that Eothas godlike would be basically light.

Nature godlikes I always associated with Gaun, but thats because I somehow always rhymed it with Faun in my head, which is pretty much what nature godlikes are, which is ofc wrong.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Aridea

[gkathellar]

 

I'm very curious as to what an Eothasian godlike would look like, and also what Eothas himself looks like in god form.

 

Woden's memories in PoE 1 describe Waidwen as a man with a halo of blinding light around his head, so I imagine Eothas' godlikes would take on similar characteristics. The whole three stars motif would probably be incorporated somewhere in there, too.

 

As for Eothas' god form, it may be extremely non-canon with that we know right now, but I've always enjoyed this fanart's depiction of him:

 

 

 

 

 

Not fond of Magran, and I wish Ondra had her whole tentacle motif, but in general I love this. It's great.

[Mikeymoonshine]

I do kinda wish they would just have said from the beginning which godlike is associated with which god. It seems common knowledge to everyone in Eora world but we only get to find out if someone specifically mentions it. It's interesting that Ondra has two types of godlike, I wonder if Tekehu is the only Marine godlike.

[Opheleus]

Do Godlike taste like the regular members of their specific kith race, or does being a Godlike spoil - or perhaps enhance - the meat?

 

These are the questions that prevent me from getting a full rest and recovering all of my spell slots.

[bugarup]

Do Godlike taste like the regular members of their specific kith race, or does being a Godlike spoil - or perhaps enhance - the meat?

 

 

Roll a corpse eater and sample the dudes from Pallegina's quest. Or romance Tekehu. 

 

Also, great fanart, although I prefer decaying anglefishhead original Ondra.