Sorry, guys... the ship was too boring for me to continue

[Purudaya]

 

 

My biggest complaint about the ship system is that I spend WAY too much money feeding and paying my crew. I dunno how I'm supposed to afford to buy new ships like this!

I'm already happily using the mod for Close to Board. Hopefully there will be one that removes crew expenses too...

I was one of the people who felt like the stronghold was "tacked on" in the last game, but this was NOT what I wanted instead!

Really? The only food I bought was from those super cheap farms you find around the world. All the rest of the food you find when exploring. By the end of the game I was traveling with over 1000 food and water in consumption space with over 700fruit in storage. A fully manned gallon costed me under 50 gold per day, which is low.

 

While the cost of ships might seem like much early on, once you collect higher loot, it’s a non issue. I upgraded everyweapon I wanted to highest level and was still left with over 400000 gold. And galleon was the first purchase I did.

I don't like selling uniques, so maybe that's my problem.

 

After around level 10, enemies start dropping so many generic exceptionals/superbs that it completely breaks the economy and maintaining your ship/crew becomes trivial even without selling uniques. I actually wish daily wages were significantly higher so that player resources wouldn't blow up quite so quickly.

 

I think I finished the game with around 500k cp, a fully upgraded ship, and a queue of 3 or 4 thousand +1 morale food/drink items for my crew. 

[PangaeaACDC]

I love the naval combat. The only change I would really make is to add random events that could effect both parties, as right now it's pretty easy to get into a groove.

 

I'm surprised at all the criticism of the chip combat, but maybe I'm just part of a different generation or something. Important to point out that there are people who like the ship combat, even love it, so I don't want them to remove it or badly nerf it. Sometimes I go around on Neketaka, and then need to jump in the ship and go ship-hunting. It's one of my favourite parts of the game, and the biggest downside is that ships don't respawn.

 

Would also be good with more fully decked ships, as it's a bit odd to see Junks with 4 of 10 cannons and suchlike. But the flipside of that is that if such a fully decked and crewed ship come after you early, if you for instance have the sloop, you stand zero chance to survive. That could be pretty frustrating, and would probably lead to more criticism than currently.

 

I'd really love for Obsidian to make more generic ships respawn though, such as merchants and slaver ships.

 

I'd also like to see more diversity in ship upgrades.

Edited May 21, 2018 by PangaeaACDC

[illathid]

 

I love the naval combat. The only change I would really make is to add random events that could effect both parties, as right now it's pretty easy to get into a groove.

 

I'm surprised at all the criticism of the chip combat, but maybe I'm just part of a different generation or something. Important to point out that there are people who like the ship combat, even love it, so I don't want them to remove it or badly nerf it. Sometimes I go around on Neketaka, and then need to jump in the ship and go ship-hunting. It's one of my favourite parts of the game, and the biggest downside is that ships don't respawn.

 

Would also be good with more fully decked ships, as it's a bit odd to see Junks with 4 of 10 cannons and suchlike. But the flipside of that is that if such a fully decked and crewed ship come after you early, if you for instance have the sloop, you stand zero chance to survive. That could be pretty frustrating, and would probably lead to more criticism than currently.

 

I'd really love for Obsidian to make more generic ships respawn though, such as merchants and slaver ships.

 

I'd also like to see more diversity in ship upgrades.

 

 

Yeah, you may be right about the generational thing.

 

Agreed on the respawn too. I'd actually pay a decent amount of money for a ship focused DLC. Add a new class of ships, maybe a unique variant or two, some new upgrade options, some random battle events, and more enemies to fight.

[Crucis]

 

I LIKE the idea of free travel with ship. MORE, than caed nua. Caed Nua was only really useful with free rest with boost. But the portative-stronghold idea is a different thing than the textual battle mini-game between two ships.

I too, hate when people try to excuse or justify the poor ship combat/mechanics with the lie of "Ships were intended as a stronghold, not for combat" especially when Obsidian stated different so many times.

 

Frankly guys, I sincerely hope Obsidian will change deeply battleship with DLC. For me It is the priority.

I hope so as well, as underwhelming as it is, Obsidian should place ship combat and mechanics of ship in general as high a priority as balancing the game. Such a huge piece of marketing for reaching consumers, should also reflect in the efforts of the actual game. Just saying.

 

 

1.  I don't think that anyone here has said "Ships were intended as a stronghold, not for combat".  They're obviously both.  And I think that given the nature of the Deadfire environment only the most clueless of individuals would have assumed otherwise. 

 

2.  I personally don't see any serious problem with the ship combat system as is.  I feel no need to either excuse it nor justify it.  I didn't understand how it worked when I first started playing the game.  But I happened to watch a youtube video on ship combat in POE2 which did a great job of explaining how it works, and I've had no problems since that time.

 

The way I see it, the people who complain the loudest about the ship combat system probably haven't invested any time or effort into learning it.  And just want to whine and moan and generally throw a temper tantrum because it wasn't perfectly self-explanatory or intuitive right from the start.  Here's a heads up for you.  All of PoE's and the old Infinity Engine D&D games also took a while to get a firm understanding of how their regular combat worked too.  But for some reason, this seems to be overlooked.  People took the time to learn those systems, but now seem unwilling to put the same effort into learning this ship combat system. 

 

Just sayin'. 

[youspoonybard]

 

 

I love the naval combat. The only change I would really make is to add random events that could effect both parties, as right now it's pretty easy to get into a groove.

 

I'm surprised at all the criticism of the chip combat, but maybe I'm just part of a different generation or something. Important to point out that there are people who like the ship combat, even love it, so I don't want them to remove it or badly nerf it. Sometimes I go around on Neketaka, and then need to jump in the ship and go ship-hunting. It's one of my favourite parts of the game, and the biggest downside is that ships don't respawn.

 

Would also be good with more fully decked ships, as it's a bit odd to see Junks with 4 of 10 cannons and suchlike. But the flipside of that is that if such a fully decked and crewed ship come after you early, if you for instance have the sloop, you stand zero chance to survive. That could be pretty frustrating, and would probably lead to more criticism than currently.

 

I'd really love for Obsidian to make more generic ships respawn though, such as merchants and slaver ships.

 

I'd also like to see more diversity in ship upgrades.

 

 

Yeah, you may be right about the generational thing.

 

Agreed on the respawn too. I'd actually pay a decent amount of money for a ship focused DLC. Add a new class of ships, maybe a unique variant or two, some new upgrade options, some random battle events, and more enemies to fight.

 

 

I like the ship combat but I think it needs to be harder (or at least scale with difficulty better) as I see it as a huge power spike. You get your boat and can easily start farming Exceptional / Superb gear at the moment through the ship combat.

[Crucis]

 

My biggest complaint about the ship system is that I spend WAY too much money feeding and paying my crew. I dunno how I'm supposed to afford to buy new ships like this!

I'm already happily using the mod for Close to Board. Hopefully there will be one that removes crew expenses too...

I was one of the people who felt like the stronghold was "tacked on" in the last game, but this was NOT what I wanted instead!

Really? The only food I bought was from those super cheap farms you find around the world. All the rest of the food you find when exploring. By the end of the game I was traveling with over 1000 food and water in consumption space with over 700fruit in storage. A fully manned gallon costed me under 50 gold per day, which is low.

 

While the cost of ships might seem like much early on, once you collect higher loot, it’s a non issue. I upgraded every weapon I wanted to highest level and was still left with over 400000 gold. And galleon was the first purchase I did.

 

 

 

I haven't gotten as far into the game as you, Wormerine, but I have to agree with you.  Between those little farms, finding food and drink at those various little spots on islands, and finding food and drink while exploring larger areas, I've never had to buy any food or drink at larger ports and cities.  I'm at the point with my ship's very high morale that I can get away with feeding them +0 moral food/drink most of the time, and even plain ol' (-1 morale) water balanced off with a +1 morale food.  Heck, when my ship's morale is at 99-100, I don't even mind letting it slip a little because I know that I can boost it back up any time I want.  I also have a ton of hardtack that I won't even bother putting in the ship's food queue.  I save it for my party when I need to rest to recover from wounds or curses.

 

I've been very wary of upgrading items (i.e. weapons, shields, armors) too freely, because I don't know how limited the crafting supplies are, and don't want to make any mistakes on this.   And I'm still sailing around in my trusty little Defiant, with her only upgrades being better guns, and slightly better sails (and those I only upgraded because I got them as booty after a ship battle).

[SonicMage117]

1. I don't think that anyone here has said "Ships were intended as a stronghold, not for combat". They're obviously both. And I think that given the nature of the Deadfire environment only the most clueless of individuals would have assumed otherwise.

 

*Sigh....*

 

You missed the point of my post, it was to prevent people from trying to excuse or justify the game's poor ship mechanics with the fact that they were also intended as a mobile stronghold. My comment wasn't calling out anyone specific? It's something called reading between the lines.

The way I see it, the people who complain the loudest about the ship combat system probably haven't invested any time or effort into learning it. And just want to whine and moan and generally throw a temper tantrum because it wasn't perfectly self-explanatory or intuitive right from the start.

I see, so anyone who disagrees with your point obviously has no idea what they're talking about and needs to pay attention to the game more.... because even when pointing out things with reasonable logic, they're still wrong if their outlook doesn't lineup with your opinion. Smh.

 

Here's a head's up for you. All of PoE's and the old Infinity Engine D&D games also took a while to get a firm understanding of how their regular combat worked too. But for some reason, this seems to be overlooked. People took the time to learn those systems, but now seem unwilling to put the same effort into learning this ship combat system.

 

Just sayin.

 

I'm not sure what makes you assume I'm a beginner in D&D/IE style games or what old games have to do with these new ship systems and mechanics have to do with the origins of other mechanics and systems that aren't well connected enough.

 

Not sure if you realized it but I actually backed the game and have alot of experience in not on the first PoE1 game but classic IE games such as Icewind Dale, Baldurs Gate, etc. I would be willing to bet my life that I know more than you on the subject but fail to see how that off-topic remark is irrelevant to this conversation anyway.

 

Lastly, no, I disagree, people aren't "whining" or "complaining" here, just giving critical feedback that I know Obsidian already realises themselves. It's not because they aren't good at the game or don't underatand how it works, not sure where that mentality comes from, the game isn't complex - especially the stripped down ship mechanics. You obviously haven't read the comments too carefully, the game's difficulty has nothing to do with it, it's the lack of mechanics and polish. Just because you can settle with something done passibly or poorly, doesn't mean those who have something meaningful to say on the subject are somehow lesser than you. In fact, those who speak out and are honest about the game's shortcomings are the ones who truly care about the game and want ot to be the best game possible.

 

Just saying.

Edited May 21, 2018 by SonicMage117

[PangaeaACDC]

Maybe your over-the-top criticism in every thread I see your name wouldn't look so daft if you actually tried to play the game.

 

The criticism isn't completely baseless ofc, the game has bugs, we all know that, but when it comes from somebody who hasn't played the game, at least the released version, you just come across as somebody with an agenda against the game.

 

I've put 80-90 hours into the game now, and with a few exceptions, I haven't come across serious bugs. There has been the occasional CTD, the import issue, reputation, but the vast majority of reported bugs are pretty minor stuff. The game is certainly in a playable state.

 

Sure, I too would love a perfect game without bugs, and hopefully that will be the case in a few months. It's not great that this is the situation with every major release, but it's also not easy to QA such a complex piece of software, especially on the PC market where there are such a wild diversity of hardware and software combinations.

 

That's not to totally excuse Obsidian for the situation, but it's far from as severe as you and others are saying either, and at some point they just had to release it "into the wild". For one comparison, I had much more serious bugs with Wasteland 2, and I played it well after release, so after a series of patches had gone out.

[Crucis]

 

1. I don't think that anyone here has said "Ships were intended as a stronghold, not for combat". They're obviously both. And I think that given the nature of the Deadfire environment only the most clueless of individuals would have assumed otherwise.

*Sigh....*

 

You missed the point of my post, it was to prevent people from trying to excuse or justify the game's poor ship mechanics with the fact that they were also intended as a mobile stronghold. My comment wasn't calling out anyone specific? It's something called reading between the lines.

The way I see it, the people who complain the loudest about the ship combat system probably haven't invested any time or effort into learning it. And just want to whine and moan and generally throw a temper tantrum because it wasn't perfectly self-explanatory or intuitive right from the start.

I see, so anyone who disagrees with your point obviously has no idea what they're talking about and needs to pay attention to the game more.... because even when pointing out things with reasonable logic, they're still wrong if their outlook doesn't lineup with your opinion. Smh.

 

Here's a head's up for you. All of PoE's and the old Infinity Engine D&D games also took a while to get a firm understanding of how their regular combat worked too. But for some reason, this seems to be overlooked. People took the time to learn those systems, but now seem unwilling to put the same effort into learning this ship combat system.

 

Just sayin.

I'm not sure what makes you assume I'm a beginner in D&D/IE style games or what old games have to do with these new ship systems and mechanics have to do with the origins of other mechanics and systems that aren't well connected enough.

 

Not sure if you realized it but I actually backed the game and have alot of experience in not on the first PoE1 game but classic IE games such as Icewind Dale, Baldurs Gate, etc. I would be willing to bet my life that I know more than you on the subject but fail to see how that off-topic remark is irrelevant to this conversation anyway.

 

Lastly, no, I disagree, people aren't "whining" or "complaining" here, just giving critical feedback that I know Obsidian already realises themselves. It's not because they aren't good at the game or don't underatand how it works, not sure where that mentality comes from, the game isn't complex - especially the stripped down ship mechanics. You obviously haven't read the comments too carefully, the game's difficulty has nothing to do with it, it's the lack of mechanics and polish. Just because you can settle with something done passibly or poorly, doesn't mean those who have something meaningful to say on the subject are somehow lesser than you. In fact, those who speak out and are honest about the game's shortcomings are the ones who truly care about the game and want ot to be the best game possible.

 

Just saying.

 

 

Whine some more.

 

Just saying.

[SonicMage117]

Maybe your over-the-top criticism in every thread I see your name wouldn't look so daft if you actually tried to play the game.

 

Just to put your mind more at ease, I have been playing it. I was going to wait for patch but I couldn't hold off any longer. So far I haven't faced any bugs but I'm not exactly too far into the game yet.

[Phyriel]

The more I think about this whole subject the more I'm leaning towards thoughts about games that become feature heavy. I mean if it was a sandbox game like Skyrim where u're tossed in a world and have some bare bones quests and tutorial to give you general idea what the world is about but in the end you kinda have to forge your own version of "fun" in them. 

 

I get a feeling (even tho I'm completely fine with that as meat and potatos of the game is enjoyable - char theorycrafting, how the combat feels in general, setting etc) they tried to provide themed means of travel to make players connect to the whole "new world" aesthetic a bit more (the thing that you have fog of war and you have to go and see places for yourself). It really is appealing the first time you do it when you sail across open sea and then a corner of a land appears. It's like a touch of sandbox but I think that's why it ultimately fails to deliver. It's like if you play a game and you get a glimpse of sandbox you instantly want more (so back again to my argument about expectations). It baits you into believing its a "real deal" system but it actually remains a mini game to smoothe out the edges of the setting itself. 

 

I hope tho that they don't back away from that system into more poe 1 travel where you just have a map with clickable locations and that's it. 

 

They way the done it in poe 2 is uncharted territory for them but imagine if they improve on sandbox aspect in a classic isometric rpg. Woah, the dream come true. Last game that tried to bring that feeling was probably ultima. 

[lpro]

I actually enjoy ships combat I only wish there were more randomly generated ones and that the endgame ship challenges were considerably more difficult -- as in like having to face down flagships & various unique ships that posed more of a threat because of special weapons. It would be nice if after each act the game generated new ships that were more difficult, to keep the pressure on, once you have a fully equipped galleon or junk, or superfast dhow, it's too easy!

I also wish that the storms were more of a big deal --and not so easy to avoid -- and that there was more serious whaling. As is the few sea monster encounters are far too static.