I was helping assassination all along?!

[Katarack21]

 

Not sure that I would have much confidence in what director Castol of VTC has in developing the teleportation for the betterment of all people, nor the uplifting of populations as a whole.  And as for the hopes of such an outcome, look what happened last time:  a dozen or so Enguithans became our flawed gods while their civilization vanished.

Are you one of Ondra's supporters then? Better to let the past be forgotten and for kith to continue living under a rock or somthing?

If anything, with Eothas's help they may as well bring a new golden age for the kith and dismantle the gods all together. 

 

This is *exactly* the problem with the God's in this setting--it's all black&white, my way or the highway, this or that. There is no change, no progress, and no middle ground.

 

It isn't actually a dichotomy between moving forward or staying still. There are many layers in between. Just because I don't want the VTC to be experimenting on a fully functional Adra pillar doesn't mean I want the world stuck in medieval stasis for all eternity.

[Katarack21]

 

 

 

 

She only straight up tells about being a spy and only confesses about assassination when the Watcher pressures her after the deals were done already.

 

She didn't know they were assassinations requests until after the fact. She didn't know what was in her missive until she opened it after she left the party and never opened the other missives. How could she tell you beforehand? Thinking the other two missives were assassinations after the fact is speculation from the Watcher and her too. She's shifty because the missives are part of her spy work and she hates being a spy. Really, what kind of spy goes everywhere telling everyone they are a spy?

Please    Don't be so naive. But whatever, personally, I wouldn't have minded her being a spy so much if she did just that, quietly spying on other factions, gathering info. But no, she had to drag the Watcher into this as well, fully expecting him/her to help even though as you say she's not a friend or comrade. I guess her joining the party somehow automatically supposes the Watcher supports her faction, even if that is not true.

 

 

 

You call me naive because I choose to believe her when she tells me she didn't know until she opened her missives which she's done after she left the party? Maia sucks at hiding what she feels and thinks which results in saying inappropriate things or super awkwardness all over quests and tasks. She's too honest with her feelings to be a liar.

 

and people are overblowing the "dragged the Watcher". She ask you to play postman. It was clear as day that those people were also spy and you don't have to help them with their other problems. Hell, if you hate Rauatai so much, why are you keeping one of their spy in your party?

 

The pirates are pirates, not much more to be said. At least they're straightforward about it.

 

I've said it before and I'll probably restate it again:

 

Of all the various factions in the Deafire, the Pirates are the *ONLY* people actively taking down the slavers. The only ones. It's *just them*. Everybody else either ignores them or works with them as needed, but the young faction of the Principi will kill slavers whenever they can.

 

If nothing else, you gotta love that.

[rheingold]

 

I may as well support the Huana - it's their land after all. And hopefully work on making them more progressive.

 

Unfortunately, there's no way in-game to push the queen in that direction, and unlike the other factions, there's no one you can support in her stead. There's nothing in the Huana ending slides about a movement to address the major problems with their society. I guess you can hope they'll fix it eventually, but you can hope the same thing about the other factions.

Yeah that's largely true, but all the factions are dodgy, so may as well go with the faction that actually belongs there.... would be different if another faction was better, but that's not the case. The other factions are probably less likely to change... they don't have any reason to.

The Huana though, are under all sorts of pressure, food, foreign influence, caste system. Sometimes that can force a change, at least it's more likely than with the republics or Ruatai.

[Skazz]

It isn't actually a dichotomy between moving forward or staying still. There are many layers in between. Just because I don't want the VTC to be experimenting on a fully functional Adra pillar doesn't mean I want the world stuck in medieval stasis for all eternity.

 

Hmmmmmmmm

Edited May 23, 2018 by Skazz

[hippofant]

And in most cases, the bounties are not morally justified or legal. It's one thing to take a slavery or pirate ship which could be seen as a good deed, but many of the bounties are for either traders or members of other factions. There is no legal basis for that - that's why they hire privateers. If it was sanctioned or somehow legal, the factions would use their own resources...

 

It's okay if the player character does it.

[Shadenuat]

Another reason to make your own party and play game as Storm of Zehir as this game should have been designed since it already plays so sozzy. Well maybe take Serafen. He's cool.

 

As cool as a pirate in a caribbean setting can be who hates slavery and racism anyway.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Shadenuat

[Katarack21]

 

And in most cases, the bounties are not morally justified or legal. It's one thing to take a slavery or pirate ship which could be seen as a good deed, but many of the bounties are for either traders or members of other factions. There is no legal basis for that - that's why they hire privateers. If it was sanctioned or somehow legal, the factions would use their own resources...

 

It's okay if the player character does it.

 

Note: Privateers *are* sanctioned. Indeed, that sanctioning--and the limiting of targets to opposing factions--is the *ONLY* difference between a privateer and a pirate.

[Aramintai]

Note: Privateers *are* sanctioned. Indeed, that sanctioning--and the limiting of targets to opposing factions--is the *ONLY* difference between a privateer and a pirate.

I think the problem with bounties in Deadfire is that they are sanctioned by different factions, there's not one power who's word is law above all else. Sure, the Huana royalty seem like the official power of Deadfire, but actually they only represent the biggest tribe that controls Neketaka and some nearby islands maybe. They themselves are still struggling to unite other tribes and islands under them. Then there are two trading companies who forcefully ingratiated themselves as official powers of Deadfire too, having several outposts on different islands and superior fleet to back their claims as official powers. And lastly, there are pirates, who have their own territory too and consider all other factions ships as target practice for their bounty hunters.

 

So, since there's no supreme law on Deadfire any bounty is fair game, because they're all official looking from employer faction point of view.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Aramintai

[hippofant]

 

 

And in most cases, the bounties are not morally justified or legal. It's one thing to take a slavery or pirate ship which could be seen as a good deed, but many of the bounties are for either traders or members of other factions. There is no legal basis for that - that's why they hire privateers. If it was sanctioned or somehow legal, the factions would use their own resources...

 

It's okay if the player character does it.

 

Note: Privateers *are* sanctioned. Indeed, that sanctioning--and the limiting of targets to opposing factions--is the *ONLY* difference between a privateer and a pirate.

 

Sanctioned by who? When you take a bounty for the Principi, you're just being sanctioned by pirates. It's not a legal sanction just because it's a quest!

 

Nominally, the Huana are the legal authority in the region. They're really the only people who should be able to legally sanction any bounties. When the other factions give you bounties to kill Huana....

 

Unless you're just of the opinion that this is an entirely lawless region, and there are no legal authorities, so it's all cool... in which case what Maia is doing is okay too, isn't it? What's the difference between taking an RDC bounty to go sink some Huana/VTC ships versus Maia taking an RDC "bounty" to go kill some Huana/VTC governors?

Edited May 23, 2018 by hippofant

[Aramintai]

What's the difference between taking an RDC bounty to go sink some Huana/VTC ships versus Maia taking an RDC "bounty" to go kill some Huana/VTC governors?

The former are military/navy/mercenary and the latter are innocent civilians? There are no bounties to murder innocent civilian targets, or political figures.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Aramintai

[fgalkin]

 

What's the difference between taking an RDC bounty to go sink some Huana/VTC ships versus Maia taking an RDC "bounty" to go kill some Huana/VTC governors?

The former are military/navy and the latter are innocent civilians? There are no bounties to murder civilian targets, or political figures.

 

Except queen Onekaza 

[Aramintai]

 

 

What's the difference between taking an RDC bounty to go sink some Huana/VTC ships versus Maia taking an RDC "bounty" to go kill some Huana/VTC governors?

The former are military/navy and the latter are innocent civilians? There are no bounties to murder civilian targets, or political figures.

 

Except queen Onekaza 

That's not a bounty per se, but the last faction quest. Faction quest lines are ****ty like that - somebody will always die in them, no parley. Basically, at that point you're helping one faction to raise above all others and make it a supreme power who's word is law. So later nobody will be able to put you on trial for this. History is written by the winners.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Aramintai

[fgalkin]

True, but there is no difference between what the Rauataians want you to do and what they want Maia to do. 

[Katarack21]

 

 

 

And in most cases, the bounties are not morally justified or legal. It's one thing to take a slavery or pirate ship which could be seen as a good deed, but many of the bounties are for either traders or members of other factions. There is no legal basis for that - that's why they hire privateers. If it was sanctioned or somehow legal, the factions would use their own resources...

 

It's okay if the player character does it.

 

Note: Privateers *are* sanctioned. Indeed, that sanctioning--and the limiting of targets to opposing factions--is the *ONLY* difference between a privateer and a pirate.

 

Sanctioned by who? When you take a bounty for the Principi, you're just being sanctioned by pirates. It's not a legal sanction just because it's a quest!

 

Nominally, the Huana are the legal authority in the region. They're really the only people who should be able to legally sanction any bounties. When the other factions give you bounties to kill Huana....

 

Unless you're just of the opinion that this is an entirely lawless region, and there are no legal authorities, so it's all cool... in which case what Maia is doing is okay too, isn't it? What's the difference between taking an RDC bounty to go sink some Huana/VTC ships versus Maia taking an RDC "bounty" to go kill some Huana/VTC governors?

 

The RDC actually declared me a privateer and gave me paperwork--at least in the dialogue statements--authorizing me as an agent of theirs. So at least in that questline I'm nominally meant to be officially sanctioned by the RDC to take these people down.

 

The Huana are nominally the legal authority, but that's actually quite a bit looser than it sounds. Really it's the Kahanga tribe that's the authority, and not all of the Huana even recognize that. The only authority that the Kahanga tribe have has been established simply by virtue of being the dominant and most powerful tribe in the region; before them it was the Wahaki, but they were massacred by Rauatai. So now it's the Kahanga, by virtue of sinking the Rauatai flagship and controlling the most islands. The farther you get from Neketaka, the less actual authority the Queen has--and thus the less authority the "Huana" have as a united people.

[Taevyr]

 

What's the difference between taking an RDC bounty to go sink some Huana/VTC ships versus Maia taking an RDC "bounty" to go kill some Huana/VTC governors?

The former are military/navy/mercenary and the latter are innocent civilians? There are no bounties to murder innocent civilian targets, or political figures.

 

One's a free agent choosing out of his own will to eliminate a certain faction's enemies for coin, the other's a soldier following orders even though she's not entirely comfortable with them. There isn't much of a comparison to make.

[Aramintai]

True, but there is no difference between what the Rauataians want you to do and what they want Maia to do. 

If it were legal what Maia was doing they would have put bounties on those targets heads officially. But they couldn't because that would have started a premature war with other factions.

[hippofant]

 

True, but there is no difference between what the Rauataians want you to do and what they want Maia to do. 

If it were legal what Maia was doing they would have put bounties on those targets heads officially. But they couldn't because that would have started a premature war with other factions.

 

Or they wanted to make sure someone reliable was doing it. Just because it's legal for me to write code for the CIA doesn't mean it's a good idea for the CIA to hire me, nor does it mean that the CIA's webmaster is doing illegal stuff.

[Aramintai]

I've checked the bounties descriptions and yeah - all land ones are objectively criminals, all marine ones are faction allied mercs or navy. No innocent civilians here.

[rheingold]

 

 

 

 

And in most cases, the bounties are not morally justified or legal. It's one thing to take a slavery or pirate ship which could be seen as a good deed, but many of the bounties are for either traders or members of other factions. There is no legal basis for that - that's why they hire privateers. If it was sanctioned or somehow legal, the factions would use their own resources...

 

 

It's okay if the player character does it.

Note: Privateers *are* sanctioned. Indeed, that sanctioning--and the limiting of targets to opposing factions--is the *ONLY* difference between a privateer and a pirate.

Sanctioned by who? When you take a bounty for the Principi, you're just being sanctioned by pirates. It's not a legal sanction just because it's a quest!

 

Nominally, the Huana are the legal authority in the region. They're really the only people who should be able to legally sanction any bounties. When the other factions give you bounties to kill Huana....

 

Unless you're just of the opinion that this is an entirely lawless region, and there are no legal authorities, so it's all cool... in which case what Maia is doing is okay too, isn't it? What's the difference between taking an RDC bounty to go sink some Huana/VTC ships versus Maia taking an RDC "bounty" to go kill some Huana/VTC governors?

The RDC actually declared me a privateer and gave me paperwork--at least in the dialogue statements--authorizing me as an agent of theirs. So at least in that questline I'm nominally meant to be officially sanctioned by the RDC to take these people down.

The Huana are nominally the legal authority, but that's actually quite a bit looser than it sounds. Really it's the Kahanga tribe that's the authority, and not all of the Huana even recognize that. The only authority that the Kahanga tribe have has been established simply by virtue of being the dominant and most powerful tribe in the region; before them it was the Wahaki, but they were massacred by Rauatai. So now it's the Kahanga, by virtue of sinking the Rauatai flagship and controlling the most islands. The farther you get from Neketaka, the less actual authority the Queen has--and thus the less authority the "Huana" have as a united people.

My impression is that it's not officially sanctioned, so that the various factions can have "plausible deniability ". In fact, the gent from the RDC admits as much when he gives you his first bounty as he has his "nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more" speech. In fact the whole point of hiring privateers is not to start wars with other factions, instead when they complain about pirates, look at them blankly, before commiserating on their losses.... you can't do that if you've signed a contract.

[Katarack21]

I've checked the bounties descriptions and yeah - all land ones are objectively criminals, all marine ones are faction allied mercs or navy. No innocent civilians here.

Well...I didn't have the insight to check, but there is that one chick in Dunnage who is implied to just be hiring you to assassinate former pirates for vengeance. I'll definitely have to come back to that in another playthrough with a high-insight character.

[Katarack21]

 

 

 

 

 

And in most cases, the bounties are not morally justified or legal. It's one thing to take a slavery or pirate ship which could be seen as a good deed, but many of the bounties are for either traders or members of other factions. There is no legal basis for that - that's why they hire privateers. If it was sanctioned or somehow legal, the factions would use their own resources...

 

It's okay if the player character does it.

Note: Privateers *are* sanctioned. Indeed, that sanctioning--and the limiting of targets to opposing factions--is the *ONLY* difference between a privateer and a pirate.

Sanctioned by who? When you take a bounty for the Principi, you're just being sanctioned by pirates. It's not a legal sanction just because it's a quest!

 

Nominally, the Huana are the legal authority in the region. They're really the only people who should be able to legally sanction any bounties. When the other factions give you bounties to kill Huana....

 

Unless you're just of the opinion that this is an entirely lawless region, and there are no legal authorities, so it's all cool... in which case what Maia is doing is okay too, isn't it? What's the difference between taking an RDC bounty to go sink some Huana/VTC ships versus Maia taking an RDC "bounty" to go kill some Huana/VTC governors?

The RDC actually declared me a privateer and gave me paperwork--at least in the dialogue statements--authorizing me as an agent of theirs. So at least in that questline I'm nominally meant to be officially sanctioned by the RDC to take these people down.

The Huana are nominally the legal authority, but that's actually quite a bit looser than it sounds. Really it's the Kahanga tribe that's the authority, and not all of the Huana even recognize that. The only authority that the Kahanga tribe have has been established simply by virtue of being the dominant and most powerful tribe in the region; before them it was the Wahaki, but they were massacred by Rauatai. So now it's the Kahanga, by virtue of sinking the Rauatai flagship and controlling the most islands. The farther you get from Neketaka, the less actual authority the Queen has--and thus the less authority the "Huana" have as a united people.

My impression is that it's not officially sanctioned, so that the various factions can have "plausible deniability ". In fact, the gent from the RDC admits as much when he gives you his first bounty as he has his "nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more" speech. In fact the whole point of hiring privateers is not to start wars with other factions, instead when they complain about pirates, look at them blankly, before commiserating on their losses.... you can't do that if you've signed a contract.

 

In the real world privateers very much had contracts called "letters of marque" and were officially sanctioned; it was essentially a way to get extra men on a problem while not having an actual naval presence that would lead to diplomatic issues. I got the impression that it was a similiar setup with the RDC, although I could have been wrong I guess.

[Aramintai]

 

I've checked the bounties descriptions and yeah - all land ones are objectively criminals, all marine ones are faction allied mercs or navy. No innocent civilians here.

Well...I didn't have the insight to check, but there is that one chick in Dunnage who is implied to just be hiring you to assassinate former pirates for vengeance. I'll definitely have to come back to that in another playthrough with a high-insight character.

They got her sister killed and they were pirates who got rich plundering, so basically, criminals.

[rheingold]

 

 

 

 

 

 

And in most cases, the bounties are not morally justified or legal. It's one thing to take a slavery or pirate ship which could be seen as a good deed, but many of the bounties are for either traders or members of other factions. There is no legal basis for that - that's why they hire privateers. If it was sanctioned or somehow legal, the factions would use their own resources...

 

 

It's okay if the player character does it.

Note: Privateers *are* sanctioned. Indeed, that sanctioning--and the limiting of targets to opposing factions--is the *ONLY* difference between a privateer and a pirate.

Sanctioned by who? When you take a bounty for the Principi, you're just being sanctioned by pirates. It's not a legal sanction just because it's a quest!

 

Nominally, the Huana are the legal authority in the region. They're really the only people who should be able to legally sanction any bounties. When the other factions give you bounties to kill Huana....

 

Unless you're just of the opinion that this is an entirely lawless region, and there are no legal authorities, so it's all cool... in which case what Maia is doing is okay too, isn't it? What's the difference between taking an RDC bounty to go sink some Huana/VTC ships versus Maia taking an RDC "bounty" to go kill some Huana/VTC governors?

The RDC actually declared me a privateer and gave me paperwork--at least in the dialogue statements--authorizing me as an agent of theirs. So at least in that questline I'm nominally meant to be officially sanctioned by the RDC to take these people down.

The Huana are nominally the legal authority, but that's actually quite a bit looser than it sounds. Really it's the Kahanga tribe that's the authority, and not all of the Huana even recognize that. The only authority that the Kahanga tribe have has been established simply by virtue of being the dominant and most powerful tribe in the region; before them it was the Wahaki, but they were massacred by Rauatai. So now it's the Kahanga, by virtue of sinking the Rauatai flagship and controlling the most islands. The farther you get from Neketaka, the less actual authority the Queen has--and thus the less authority the "Huana" have as a united people.

My impression is that it's not officially sanctioned, so that the various factions can have "plausible deniability ". In fact, the gent from the RDC admits as much when he gives you his first bounty as he has his "nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more" speech. In fact the whole point of hiring privateers is not to start wars with other factions, instead when they complain about pirates, look at them blankly, before commiserating on their losses.... you can't do that if you've signed a contract.

In the real world privateers very much had contracts called "letters of marque" and were officially sanctioned; it was essentially a way to get extra men on a problem while not having an actual naval presence that would lead to diplomatic issues. I got the impression that it was a similiar setup with the RDC, although I could have been wrong I guess.

You are right about the letter of marque and that they were in theory officially sanctioned, but apparently the sanction only applied to countries at war. Undoubtedly government essentially used them as mercs, though they didn't pay them, essentially they were on "commission". However, they were also used against countries that were not at war. Apparently Queen Victoria used them against Spain when they were not at war, so the terms of the contracts were invalid. She did that so she could deny any responsibility.

 

From what I can remember of the conversation with the Ruatai officer who hands out bounties, there was no mention of a contract? I'm pretty sure he made a pretty speech about how Ruatai are not at war with the VTC or Huana, and they would never engage in any underhanded behavior that would jeopardize their relations.... that as he hands over bounties:) But I could have made a mistake, I'll have to check sometime.

[Taevyr]

You are right about the letter of marque and that they were in theory officially sanctioned, but apparently the sanction only applied to countries at war. Undoubtedly government essentially used them as mercs, though they didn't pay them, essentially they were on "commission". However, they were also used against countries that were not at war. Apparently Queen Victoria used them against Spain when they were not at war, so the terms of the contracts were invalid. She did that so she could deny any responsibility.

 

From what I can remember of the conversation with the Ruatai officer who hands out bounties, there was no mention of a contract? I'm pretty sure he made a pretty speech about how Ruatai are not at war with the VTC or Huana, and they would never engage in any underhanded behavior that would jeopardize their relations.... that as he hands over bounties:) But I could have made a mistake, I'll have to check sometime.

 

If i'm not mistaken, the Rauatai officer says that they have paperwork legitimizing the use of privateers against every target he gives, and that "they'll know we're at war when we stop handing in paperwork" or something like that. So it seems more like every faction implicitly agrees that using independent parties to eliminate enemy assets is ok, so long as the factions don't get directly involved.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Taevyr

[luciffer]

Why do you guys compare assassin with privateer？

 

Don't you fight the enemy face to face when collecting a bounty？