Namutree

Yup. And I'm fine with that. Personally, I see the quest XP we get as simply delayed reward for, among other things, killing those enemies necessary to progress. I agree on quest xp. That is however meaningless as we are not discussing the merits of quest xp. We are talking about why exploring, battles, and general adventuring does not give you any xp unless a npc told you to do it. Kill xp and quest xp are not exclusive.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it hampers your progress further on down the line if you skip XP rich areas where the goal is basically just to slaughter everything in sight. Yes, believe it or not ignoring a huge portion of the game's content does not yield as much xp. So what? Being an adventurer who is a pacifist should be harder since it's kind of a contradiction in concept. It certainly doesn't justify the outright removal of combat making you better at combat. As I have stated before: This is not a bold experiment in rpg game design; this game was pitched as a return to the familiar game-play of the IE games. Making xp exclusive to quests is not only a major detriment to role-play, it is a terrible departure from the tradition this game was meant to emulate.

I'm really enjoying a PnP game I'm in at present where my character basically leaps at every opportunity to avoid a fight. We're getting a lot of "roleplaying XP" because she'll usually try to negotiate instead if it's feasible. It's nice for that to be a realistic option in any rpg, IMO. Less metagaming helps with immersion for me. Not getting kill xp isn't making combat any more or less needed. There will be many parts of the game where combat is mandatory. If it wasn't it sure wouldn't be much of an IE successor.

I did the drow city without killing everyone.

Then you're going to be disappointed as reaching the end requires a lot of combat. Even if you talk/stealth your way out of as many possible combat situations as you can; you will still be a mass murderer at the end. Not that kill xp being added would have made that any more/less likely.

Shevek rightly asked that you didn't put words in people's mouth. Now you are doing it again. The only one here deserving of ridicule is you.

Except that your party in poe isn't low level.

Whether or not the bugs connected to the quest system are fixed; it won't change the fact that making xp quest exclusive railroads us into doing quests. Quests shouldn't have a monopoly on xp. The issue as to whether BG1/BG2 & IWD/IWD2 are dungeon crawlers is merely semantics. The real point is that the IE didn't railroad you into doing quest exclusively, and if poe does; it will not capture the feeling of playing an IE game.

Not to be "that" guy, but a poll with around 100 votes dosnt really mean anything.... Not to shoot myself in the foot here, but I suspect those who would be most motivated go and vote would be people hoping to change the xp system.

Except that some posters want exactly that. Not to mention I have no way of knowing Obsidian will address this issue or even if it isn't intentional. It is a major problem with an easy fix. I want to bring it up so hopefully Obsidian takes notice. If I had simply posted once and let this get buried it would increase the chance this issue will not be noticed and thus not resolved.

You must've been doing something wrong fighting the trash mobs. How were you fighting them? It could be that I was fighting them wrong, I guess. I'll described how I fought the mobs, and how I fought the ogre. 1st mob fight against the beetles: A saw a large beetle and I think a small one too. I had my mage cast a fire-ball at it. Then I had my tanks (The fighter and my bear; Tina) move forward towards the beetles while sending my mage back. I had my pc(Ranger) target a big with the marked prey spell while the priest used a zone of protection. The rouge sttod back and shot the beetles with arrows. I had my mage cast magic missiles when he could. My tank was in defense mode obviously, and whenever anyone on my team took any stamina damage I had my healer cast restore stamina. Ultimately I beat them without a casualty, but I had to be vigilant to ensure my tank never fell. At worst he lost half his stamina. Although that one beetle digging underground undermined my plan a bit. Not that it really mattered. All the mob battles were about that hard. Ogre battle: Pretty much the same strategy. The Ogre did about the same amount of stamina damage as the trash mobs, but due to him being only one foe; it felt like I was in control the whole time.

I have only suggested that the petty enemies should be easier. Not the Ogre. Not Nyfre. Not any of the special fights. Not at mid-level. See in early level every thing is dangerous. Then at mid-level trash mobs become fodder, but semi-special enemies are still tough. Finally, at high-level only very special foes are a challenge. That's variety. It seems in poe; low/mid/high levels will be the same. That is exactly what poe seems like it will do. All the fights will be just as tough as the others, or rather the gap between the "easy" fights and the "hard" fights will be very narrow. Poe was not pitched as a bold experiment in rpg game design. It was pitched as a return to what was familiar. The bizarre difficulty curve is the antithesis of that pitch.

I just killed the ogre again. The trash mobs were stronger than he was. So lame.

The approach isn't "just be you" at all. If I want to explore for it's own sake, even if I kill enemies and find dungeons; I get no xp. If I do a quest; I get xp. There is railroading going on here. Want to progress in the game? Do a bunch of quest. No other play style allowed.

Here's why weak trash mobs help a rpg game: A) They provide a quick break from exploration. B) They provide variety to combat pace. With trash mobs some fights are short and simple; without them all the fights are long and complicated. That will make the game feel repetitive. Unless poe is going to be very short; this will be a major issue. Not every encounter should feel the same. C) For some players it is entertaining squash weaklings. Here's why strong trash mobs hurt a rpg game: A) They hinder exploration by forcing players to be very cautious.. Hard to enjoy the scenery when I'm constantly concerned that if my party spreads out too much or if I progress too fast I'll be killed. B) Strong trash mobs slow the player down too much. When traveling a short distance takes a long time because the fights take forever its going to make the game feel slow and boring. It doesn't matter how challenging these fights are; they will never be engaging, it would be nice if they were at least quick. C) Strong trash mobs heavily encourage power gaming. After all; if your team is a bit under powered the game is going to be a nightmare. Every time you try to do anything it's going to be a struggle. D) It will make the game repetitive. Every fight will be around the same difficulty; that lack of variety could very well be a game wrecker. Most people won't know why, but the whole game will feel unmemorable due to having no special battles. Every battle will be heavily tactical; thus none of them stand out. E) It will fatigue people mentally. Whenever a task requires a great deal of attention or focus; it drains mental energy. While sometimes I like having my limits tested; it gets tiresome eventually. It's kinda like running. Sometimes running can be fun, but often I just like to walk to my destination.

A lot of people seem to think we more dwarf portraits. They are wrong! There a plenty of dwarf portraits on the internet. What Obsidian needs to do is focus on the new races; not the old ones. The internet has thousands or more of those. If I wanna make a Wild Orlan though? The internet doesn't even have one. Obsidian artist: focus as much as possible on the new races!

If it saves a couples hours of development time that could be used elsewhere, gladly. Sensuki is now helping Obsidian develop poe. Obsidian should hire him to work on the expansion.

I meant simpler for you to defeat, and I already stated how. Lower their hp by 10%.

Making animals not hostile by default would be a major improvement.

Seriously Sensuki; just work for Obsidian. You're clearly talented enough.

In IWD2 they didn't really have exploring so the trash mobs didn't serve much purpose. Not to mention the frequency with which they were spammed. I would be just as opposed to increasing enemy spam as you seem to be. I simply want the trash mobs that are here to be a bit simpler.

At least the deer isn't hostile. I agree though that the lions and wolves should be hostile automatically. They should be like the bears from BG. If you go near them or attack them they'll go hostile, but if you keep your distance so do they. That would really help make the game pace more bearable. Maybe make that the next Sensuki Suggestion.

Do you think that's good or bad?

You expected poe's to be like an IE game; Bosses and special fights are hard and complicated. Trash mobs are easy and simple. It's not surprising you died. So far I expect that in poe after the bugs are fixed it'll play like this: Bosses and special fights are hard and complicated like they should be. Trash mobs are hard and complicated like they shouldn't be. Unless Obsidian changes course poe will be very punishing.

I didn't suggest increasing the frequency of encounters. Just that they be a bit easier, and a bit simpler. The fact we don't get combat xp actually gives more reason to shorten and simplify combat. If we aren't being rewarded for combat; then we shouldn't have to put so much time and effort into it. Not at all. Trash mobs can break up exploration, and make the player feel like a boss when you stomp them.