Namutree

If kill xp is consistently low then we can at least have a pretty good idea how much experience we'll be getting from combat. If I see 5 beetles and every enemy I have fought so far has yielded at no more than 50 xp I can assume I'll make a little progress, but not a whole lot.

Not everything listed here is true, but I get what you are saying. Yes, while the interface is kind of like the IE games; these are features not unique to them.

Aesthetically; kind of. Mechanically; not at all. Unless you are just talking about the game interface. I don't want this to be a debate about the semantics of the word "mechanically". When I reference the mechanics; I am referring to how the game functions. For example; the inventory system in poe is very different than in the IE games. As is how the classes function. Perhaps the word mechanically could have been wrong word for the concepts I was referring to, but the proper context is understandable either way.

Obsidian also promised the exploration of BG, the combat of Icewind dale, and the narrative of torment. They specifically invoked the IE game's features. Then DIDN'T deliver. Also, poe's combat is unlike any crpg from the 90's. You called the combat of the IE games a boring snooze fest. Was I to assume that was a compliment, or a harsh repudiation. I assume the latter; if I was mistaken, and "boring snooze fest" was actually a compliment I apologize. Having to micromanage fighters at mid-level is not similar to the IE games. It is a complete shift in how the fighter works and plays. Not to mention in Throne of Bhaal fighters are still sufficient without micromanagement against trash mobs. Not the case in poe. So no, they aren't SIMILAR; they are TOTALLY DIFFERENT!

It's a good thing that we have you here to dictate what does and does not feel like an IE game. Happy to help. As I have pointed out; the game mechanics are objectively different in virtually every regard. Unless people think that mechanics (Which are the majority of the game) are not a part of the IE feel; than I am simply right. If mechanics aren't important than I could say that HALO "feels" like an IE game.

I want to make this clear for all. The trash mobs are too strong compared to the special encounters. As I described earlier that the trash mobs were a greater challenge than the Ogre. That is just stupid. The biggest issue isn't that the game is too hard. It's that the difficulty curve is out of balance. Putting the game on easy will not solve this. As Doppelshwert said the rock-paper-scissors aspect of the game needs to be toned down. As well as a 10% hp reduction from the trash mobs.

Thus we reach the real issue. It's not that this game feels like an IE game; because it doesn't. It's that you just don't like what the IE games were. If something different is what you want; fine and dandy, everyone has different wants. We were not promised something radically different though. Obsidian seems to have deliberately tricked fans of the IE games in order to get donations they never would have gotten if they had been honest about they were making. Poe as it is does not deserve to be associated with the IE games. They tapped into an audience hungry for an IE game; only to give us something totally different. It's not just that they change a few things; THEY CHANGED EVERYTHING! Nothing works like an IE game: The combat is not like an IE game. The classes are not like the IE games. The exploration is not like any of the IE games. The inventory is not like the IE games. The xp system is not like the IE games. I could go on, but that would make this post WAAAY too long.

I don't want the game to be a carbon copy; I just wanted it to have a similar game pace which is essential to game feel. Nonsense. Try exploring in poe for an hour without a quest. Then do so in BG with a mid-level party. I can assure you will spend at least twice the amount of time fighting in poe, and thus only half the time enjoying the scenery and atmosphere. Exploring in poe will feel more tense since trash mobs pose a serious threat; exploring in BG will feel relaxing since it is generally safer. After you are done exploring in poe you will have nothing to show for it. After exploring in BG you will have made progress towards a level up. Don't even get me started on combat... This idea that poe feels like an IE game is a farce. The only way poe at all resembles an IE game is if you ignore both game pace and mechanics; which are at least 80% of the game.

They didn't ask people to give them money to develop it. Not to mention as far as I know they didn't invoke anything about BG specifically. Obsidian did. They said they would take in the exploration of BG. So far it looks like they didn't. They said they would add the combat of Ice wind dale. They didn't. Not that I think Bioware was even being honest about DA:O being a successor to BG as it is almost nothing like it.

Whether or not you want trash mobs to be more of a hassle to deal with does not change the fact that they were quick and simple in the IE games, and changing it will objectively change the game pace. Because all of these classes will require a great deal of attention to use effectively. Which makes them play the same. One of the best things about the fighter was how he made trash mobs a breeze. Just send them in to attack and you were done. Nice and simple. The mage however; had a much more tactical feel to him. Thus the classes played very differently. Poe has objectively changed this. Poe was not pitched on change; it was pitched on familiarity. This is a MAJOR change, and only one of many. There is nothing arrogant about pointing out that different mechanics mean a different experience. Change the mechanics a lot and you will get a very different experience. Not that mechanics are the only thing changed. It doesn't matter that you seem to filter out experiences you don't like. They were there, and thus a part of the experience. We were promised a return to that experience; it looks like we were deceived.

Doesn't sound to me like they're failing to live up to any promises. They promised to deliver on what made those games fun, not on exact copies of them or their mechanics. If they had promised to make Baldur's Gate 3 I never would have pledged. Seems to me they are. Let's start with the epic exploration of Balders Gate: The trash mobs amplified strength, combined with the health/stamina divide, combined with the lack of combat xp completely eliminates any sense of exploration resembling Balders Gate. As for the fun combat of Ice wind dale: The combat/dungeon crawling is VERY different than Ice wind dale; not only mechanically, but even in feel. The tanks and melee fighters feel nothing like their old selves since they require active micromanagement. Combat itself definitely has a different pace than Ice wind dale; though this might be rectified after bug fixes and balancing. This is after all; this is just the beta so we don't know how combat will be, but so far it seems very different. As for the writing of planescape torment: They might get that right. I have no reason to believe they won't. So overall, it looks like they will fail 2/3 of the promises they made in the pitch. It is almost certain, really. I really hope they nail the narrative; as that seems to be the only promise they intend to keep.

Because your idea of fun is for the classes to have the same play style. Sure the wizard and fighter have different tactics, but they now both focus on tactics in battle; while in the IE games fighters were more about strategy in setting up their gear. Not to mention the fact that the old fighters made exploration simple by allowing you to dispatch trash mobs without much effort or mental energy. This is just another major departure from the IE games. One that some may consider better, and others consider worse. Whether or not it's better isn't important; it isn't something that can be co-exist with the feel of an IE game.

As you've just stated, "The mechanics are more involved" is proof positive that the game will feel different. Perhaps one MAJOR change to game pace is tolerable, but it is only the beginning. Between no kill xp and trash mobs strong enough to challenge a mid-level party poe could very well play incredibly differently. I'm not saying that poe is a let down as this is just a beta, but Obsidian needs to move this game more towards a classic feel.

Lower the hp of petty enemies by 10%. Few know how much it would help this game.

I've beat BG2 without a mage/sorcerer. Also the mage doesn't the fighter's job better than a fighter. Not that all of this is really relevant. At the core of the issue is this: A) Many people gave Obsidian money on the pitch that poe would be a spiritual successor to the IE games. NOTHING is more important in capturing the feel of playing an IE game than the game-play. If Obsidian didn't want to do that; they shouldn't have pitched it. B) As of now the game does not feel like an IE game. In which case, whether or not some people prefer it; Obsidian has by definition failed to produce a spiritual successor. In which case they are either too incompetent to do so, or are simply frauds who conned thousands of people by misleading them on what they were planning to make. Finally as a side note something needs to be stated: If upon release poe doesn't play like an IE game not only will poe be poorly received; there will be no trilogy. I certainly won't be interested in the sequel, and I doubt I'd be alone. I won't be fooled twice.

As Sensuki and others have posted before. Players need to rest too much between battles. My idea would also help solve this issue as well. Just another reason petty foes need less hp.

In AD&D, fighters were crap except early game. Wizards were totally broken once they started to level up. Worst offender? Learning how to alter the fabric of the universe to do stuff life fireballs, No one cares about the AD&D system at it's core. This is about the IE games, and the IE games made fighters plenty useful in the end. Heck, Sarevok was the best companion. Not to mention that the game designers could easily design the enemies around the end to have anti-wizard abilities and resistances to make those crap fighters just as useful as the wizards. What we want is for the supposed IE successor to play like an IE game. I know that sounds crazy, but I think it would have been just crazy enough to work.

It was pitched as a successor to the IE games. It should play like them. If major changes are not made; it won't. Even if poe turns out better it will be a failure to achieve it's stated goal. Poe wasn't pitch as a reinvented wheel. It was pitched as a return to the old model with cosmetic improvements. Agree 100% with this.

It isn't penalising to not give some one xp for something they didn't do. It is however very restrictive to say, "Only quests give xp. I like quest more than combat so no xp for combat." That logic leads to: No xp for quests- My character doesn't like to do quest when it isn't needed, and I don't want to punished for not being an npc's servant! No xp for anything really. The entire xp concept is based on rewarding players for adventuring. If you can justify not giving xp for exploration/combat; the foremost aspects of adventure, then xp itself is no longer justified. I want kill xp and quest xp, but if a choice must be made; kill xp would be the logical winner. Since levels mostly revolve around combat mechanically speaking.

When you try to reinvent the wheel there is a good (actualy a 100%) chance that your new hexagonal wheel will not work as good as your traditional round wheel (see guild wars 2 for reference) This is the part where I remind you guys that they don't have a D&D license and as a result can not copy the systems of the Infinity Engine games and as such had no choice. Easy ways around that: A) Switch wisdom for resolve which could involve only a minor game-play change where resolve also makes you less likely to panic. B) Make the number system a bit higher so it doesn't use a d20. C) Introduce some minor new game-play concept like the health/stamina system (Except make it very generous so it doesn't really matter) to say, "We're not d&d! Check out our health/stamina system!" Done. Effectively the same game-play without being sued.

This post makes me wish this forum had a dislike button. This game needs less BG because most of this games real flaws come from them wanting to do something original with vision but being handicapped and having to make it reminiscent of the Infinity Engine games. Mechanically almost everything "original" seems to be a problem. Obsidian should have been original with the races/lore, and be very traditional with the mechanics.

Yup. And I'm fine with that. Personally, I see the quest XP we get as simply delayed reward for, among other things, killing those enemies necessary to progress. I agree on quest xp. That is however meaningless as we are not discussing the merits of quest xp. We are talking about why exploring, battles, and general adventuring does not give you any xp unless a npc told you to do it. Kill xp and quest xp are not exclusive.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it hampers your progress further on down the line if you skip XP rich areas where the goal is basically just to slaughter everything in sight. Yes, believe it or not ignoring a huge portion of the game's content does not yield as much xp. So what? Being an adventurer who is a pacifist should be harder since it's kind of a contradiction in concept. It certainly doesn't justify the outright removal of combat making you better at combat. As I have stated before: This is not a bold experiment in rpg game design; this game was pitched as a return to the familiar game-play of the IE games. Making xp exclusive to quests is not only a major detriment to role-play, it is a terrible departure from the tradition this game was meant to emulate.

I'm really enjoying a PnP game I'm in at present where my character basically leaps at every opportunity to avoid a fight. We're getting a lot of "roleplaying XP" because she'll usually try to negotiate instead if it's feasible. It's nice for that to be a realistic option in any rpg, IMO. Less metagaming helps with immersion for me. Not getting kill xp isn't making combat any more or less needed. There will be many parts of the game where combat is mandatory. If it wasn't it sure wouldn't be much of an IE successor.

I did the drow city without killing everyone.