600lbpanther

Not to Hijack the thread but I believe this following post doesn't warrant a thread dedicated to itself. I do believe it complements this thread though but apologies if not. Creature Caster: First Wave - 1 day Left - 951% funded. These "miniatures" are actually huge... standing 7+ inches. Not sure how people view them on here as I am just getting into the PnP side of the RP world but I would imagine them as supreme beings, god-like demons, deities, manifestations of the gods or their handmaidens,etc. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jeremyglen/creature-caster-first-wave

We should clarify our points…I agree. It seems we are on different sides of the fence on this one. Point #1: I believe the cost analysis on what it would take to create Pillars of Eternity contained a profit from the get-go. Point #2: It seems the other thought is that the game was quoted bare bones with just enough to cover the development and the profit to be made on release. If that the latter is correct then I wonder a few things: Why would they take a chance on a very niche 2D Isometric Hardcore RPG game that their entire profit would come after development when the bulk of the sales possibly** could have been met before the game’s official release? Why wouldn’t they factor in a 10% profit (at the very least)? Companies exist to make money. Also, to help mitigate any potential drop off in sales due to a bulk of it coming up front. It seems like a wasted sales opportunity. How does quadrupling the revenue while possibly only doubling the staff not offer increased profit? (You only have to pay rent one time which I am sure is factored in their SG&A. If they doubled their staff and doubled the time period to produce the game you would need a $2,000,000 barebones quote to do that. How does $4,000,000 affect the bottomline when the staff was not quadrupled, nor the production time, nor the equipment, nor their insurances, or their benefits.

They didn't friggin' collect anything towards sales and implying otherwise is very, very dangerous misinformation. They collected towards the funding of the product. Which did not exist in anyway before you helped fund it. So don't you dare imply it was a pre-order. "So he'd collected nearly $300,000 in what amounted to preorders for a product he had never produced. And instead of selling 3,000 pairs of underwear, which he was prepared to make and ship two months later, he was on the hook for 23,000 pairs." http://www.businessinsider.com/flint-and-tinder-jake-bronstein-kickstarter-2012-12#ixzz315rsIDu8 "It's something I think about a lot—there were a lot of moments I could have changed the economics on the Kickstarter campaign," Bronstein told us. "I could have turned to all the backers and said, 'Just order one item and then you can sample the product and I can make it for you at a profit." http://www.businessinsider.com/flint-and-tinder-jake-bronstein-kickstarter-2012-12#ixzz315rkXqzl "The following are projects I've heard about recently, either because they got widespread press or because they touched my social circle in some way:" Vuvuzelas for BP: Raised $6,846 with a pledge goal of $2,000. Estimated Profit: $5,437. Estimated Donations: $6,846. Profit percentage: 79%. Donation percentage: 100%. NIMBY - Industrial Art and DIY Space: Raised $17,897 with a pledge goal of $17,255. Estimated Profit: $16,161. Estimated Donation: $17,823. Profit percentage: 90%. Donation percentage: 100%. Hollaback!: Raised $13,560 with a pledge goal of $12,500. Estimated Profit: $12,241. Estimated Donation: $13,466. Profit percentage: 90%. Donation percentage: 99%. Decentralize the web with Diaspora: Raised $200,641 with a pledge goal of $10,000. Estimated Profit: $135,905. Estimated Donation: $180,051. Profit percentage: 67%. Donation percentage: 90%. Embodiment: A Portrait of Queer Life in America: Raised $12,568 with a pledge goal of $10,000. Estimated Profit: $11,397. Estimated Donation: $10,848. Profit percentage: 90%. Donation percentage: 86%. Punk Mathematics: Raised $28,701 with a pledge goal of $2,400. Estimated Profit: $20,224. Estimated Donation: $17,225. Profit percentage: 70%. Donation percentage: 60%. Power Laces: Raised $25,024 with a pledge goal of $25,000. Estimated Profit: $12,429. Estimated Donation: $12,904. Profit percentage: 50%. Donation percentage: 51%. Designing Obama: Raised $84,613 with a pledge goal of $65,000. Estimated Profit: $24,717. Estimated Donation: $30,010. Profit percentage: 29%. Donation percentage: 35%. Coming and Crying: Real stories about sex from the other side of the bed: Raised $17,242 with a pledge goal of $3,000. Estimated Profit: $10,773. Estimated Donation: $6,144. Profit percentage: 62%. Donation percentage: 35%. Glif - iPhone 4 Tripod Mount & Stand: Raised $137,417 with a pledge goal of $10,000. Estimated Profit: $98,950. Estimated Donation: $15,467. Profit ratio: 72%. Donation ratio: 11%. Lockpicks by Open Locksport: Raised $87,407 with a pledge goal of $6,000. Estimated Profit: $64,043. Estimated Donation: $4,922. Profit percentage: 73%. Donation percentage: 6%. http://localwiki.org/blog/2010/nov/15/kickstarter-pros-and-cons/ _____________________________________________________________________________________ It appears I am not the only person out there that realizes companies exist to make a profit. Profit is not a bad word and a company should not be ashamed to make money. When I backed the Caverns kickstarter from Dwarven Forge it was under the impression the company was making a profit. This realization is not only understood but us backers hope that Stefan and Jeff from Dwarven Forge make a great profit. Also, forgive me if I missed it but I do not see anything stated in Kickstarters rules that profit is against the rules. ______________________________________________________________________________________ What is not allowed? Kickstarter cannot be used to raise money for causes, whether it's the Red Cross or a scholarship, or for "fund my life" projects, like tuition or bills. Creators cannot offer equity or financial incentives (ownership, share of profits, repayment/loans, cash-value equivalents, etc). Projects cannot resell items or offer rewards not produced by the project or its creator. Creators cannot promise to donate a portion of funds raised or future revenue to a cause. Projects cannot offer rewards in bulk quantities (more than 10). Kickstarter cannot be used to fund websites or apps focused on e-commerce, business, and social networking. Kickstarter cannot be used to fund software projects not run by the developers themselves. Kickstarter cannot be used to buy real estate. Projects cannot offer alcohol as a reward. Projects cannot offer genetically modified organisms as a reward. No self-help material (books, videos, etc). This includes projects that offer (or produce materials that offer) business, emotional, financial, health, medical, sex/seduction, or other self-help advice. No offensive material (hate speech, etc); pornographic material; or projects endorsing or opposing a political candidate. No tobacco, drugs, and drug paraphernalia; energy food and drinks; or nutritional supplements. No contests, raffles, coupons, gambling, or lifetime memberships. No bath, beauty, and cosmetic products; electronic surveillance equipment; eyewear (sunglasses, prescription glasses, and others); firearms, weapons, knives, weapon accessories, and replicas of weapons; medical, health, safety, and personal care products; or infomercial-type products. https://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines

If you are going to quote me please quote me correct since I said "small business" which Obsidian is. I am not sure I can respond to the rest of your statement since I don't really understand what you are trying to say.

I am not an accountant but I understand enough to be dangerously misguiding. To me this argument is like saying the guy who owns a small pizza shop that only sells $750,000 a year is losing money because he isn't selling $2,000,000 a year. Well, he is losing the potential profit by not selling $2,000,000 worth of pizza but is he really at a negative or unacceptable profit? Do we know his overhead? debt? profit per pizza? If that small business owner is making just 10% net profit he is making $75,000.00 a year in a business that he owns. Also, he is effectively designing his own life rather than having it designed for him. This is what I think of when I think of Obsidian. A small business that designs their own life at a profit (I have no idea if it's modest or not...also...what is "modest". Like Chris Rock says: "If Bill Gates woke up with Oprah's money he'd kill himself".) If their initial $1,000,000 goal included buying new computers, software, furniture, salaries, benefits (401ks, HSAs, etc.) then that would already be covered by the time they hit the $4,000,000. (i.e. - Unless they quadrupled their work force: You wouldn't need to buy 4x as many computers, 4x as much software, 4x as much furniture, pay 4x as much salary, etc. They might double the salaries if they doubled the staff but this gets amortized over not only the $4,000,000 but the other games they are creating at the same time. This also helps them maintain a workforce at a profit and expanding the time on current, profitable business rather than completing a $1,000,000 game in a year and now have to go out and find more business to fill the slot.) What is the net profit on $4,000,000 that would be considered a success? 20%? That's $800,000. Is that good? bad? I do not know... I am not their controller or CEO. Originally, they planned on needing $1,000,000 to kickstart this game at an acceptable profit. They effectively quadrupled that goal (their revenue) which, theoretically, quadrupled their profit. They might have doubled the time that they are spending on this game but they quadrupled the revenue. Remember, that final stretch goal of $500,000 ($3.5 - $4 million) basically is "improve the game". What if their definition of "improving the game" is putting that $500,000 on the bottom line so that they can make a business decision in the future to continue making additional expansions past the first one? Again, the what if argument... Also, I do not know about you but I was debited for my Pillars of Eternity copy. They sold something to me and collected on it before they even made it. I wish I had those payment terms to my customers. That is better than C.O.D baby.

Let's see if we can answer this very philosophical and difficult question: Why aren't there any females in Pillars of Eternity's forum? Romance thread Boob armor thread This thread that is "worried" about the lack of females. I suggest another group that should be in the game: A group of overly intellectual, tech saavy, great guys who want to "nice" a girl to death...I present ... The White Knights of the Innernet Forest. Guys who are sensitive and desire to cater to a woman's every demand, who dream of marriage even before they know her name...a man who will gently hold her hand and will fight for her to the death!! A gentleman that will never utter a mean word to her and give in to her every want and, subsequently, one who will effectively bore her to death. However, their mortal enemy that they must confront before this can happen: The first date. :dun dun dun:

Eugh. Exactly how I feel about a bunch of "grown" men seriously debating the merits of female armor with other "grown" men. The fact none of you were "Eugh'ing" at each other makes me as nauseated as I'm sure you felt about my post. This is right up there with the whole romance thread...It reinforces the "anti-social grown adult nerd whose never had a girlfriend playing dungeons and dragons in his moms basement" stereotype associated with hardcore RPG people. Hey if romance is or isn't in the game .. whatever. If female armor is in or isn't in the game .. whatever. To have passionate post full of flowery rhetoric and air tight logic magnficiently displayed post after post after post on whether armor should have titty slots or not is freaking weirding me out!!!!!!!!

To be honest, even though it might not be realistic, I like the inclusion of this type of armor as it is so imaginative, decorative, and really detailed in the design...it's something that just really gets me off. Can males wear the more "feminine" armor or is it gender specific? I sure hope not....the armor looks so light and delicate and would really compliment the lithe movements of a muscular, male ranger named - The Bruno.

Some bars in the Caribbean have a live cam so you can see how much fun everyone is having in their bathing suits while it's snowing outside of your work window.

I am glad they included female armor as I plan on being the male leader of an all female band of mercenaries who are unruly but fair and just. This inclusion of female armor, or "boob plate" as the perverts are want to insultingly refer to it as, will help distinguish me as the leader. Does anyone know if there will be different "sized" armor? My girl Shareena is poppin'.

Mages may or may not be inherently nerdy but us guys and gals arguing over the semantics of how to classify and label a stereotypical "mage" certainly are.

So what do you think you're going to play as? You're more than welcome to join us thick headed warriors....might even end up growing a little hair on your neck connecting the chest and face hair......just how girls like it

I think I know how you feel...I love dungeons and dragons, I like miniatures and terrain for epic pen and paper battles, and sometimes I pretend to be a female in my RPGs even though I am male....but I'm not a nerd or anything

Sorry...I'm catching up here. What was the fear that caused this initial post? An update somewhere? A video on the development of the game? Did we just suggest this possible scenario and then start arguing for or against it? If so, why did we suggest this possible scenario and then start arguing for or against it? Obsidian's track record? So many questions....never mind...forget it...I withdraw all my questions...I'm going to the bar.

You can never defeat the "what if" argument and I do not say that in a rude or condescending tone. You just cannot defeat it. I can say "what if this" and someone can counter "what if that". I did not start the thread trying to insinuate some conspiracy because, again, it is the "what if" argument. That being said: $500,000 in a $4,000,000 game is a pretty substantial increase to the game. If it were $30,000 I would not have asked the question. I do not work in the gaming industry but I did attend Full Sail for a computer animation degree. I do not say that to impress you but to impress upon you that the teachers (who are required to have real world experience in the gaming industry...well that is the lie they sold back then at least) stressed time and time again that the industry is extremely deadline driven. However, this can be said for all industries. When you are held to a deadline: you typically have an outline (at the very least) of the goals, with dates to be completed, and the goals should be able to be measured. Perhaps, as people have stated before, this is a goal that affects all other goals and allows more time for polishing the game which can only be measured in man hours. If I can speak frankly: I was just hoping someone would point to a link where Obsidian told us about some kick ass new **** they were throwing in the game because of the additional backing. That's all...no conspiracy or accusations of lieing and certainly not trying to audit them.

Some additional info on this Kickstarter: The creator is Stefan Pokorny. His mom past away during this Kickstarter and so there was an extra surge of donations to surpass the last Kickstarter and show community gratitude. This well wishing spelled "doom to my wallet" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmrkcWM3Dj8). It was not uncommon to see $1,500 - $2,500 donations being posted in the comment sections. The stretch goals are pretty hefty with an additional 28 "free" pieces (which are unique and not from the base set pieces) per base set purchased. To activate the stretch goal you needed to purchase a minimum of 2 base sets (52 pieces) which results in 56 additional, unique, "free" stretch goal pieces. The 28th, and final, stretch piece (the Mine Entrance) was the $2,000,000 stretch goal. The other part of the stretch goals were add-on packs. The 2.1+ million resulted in a stretch goal that was not planned on and was created on the spot. Those who backed filled out a text box which asked what we would like to see most in this new add on pack. Stefan will read through these and choose his favorites and those who backed will vote on their favorite out of the choices. This will be the new add on pack that is not free but for purchase.

Only a fool argues with someone they consider a "fool".

5 Hours left... I've invested far more than I care to acknowledge right now so beware if you donate...adds up really fast and the add-ons are awesome. We're about 40g away from $2,000,000. If we get 2,000,000 there is a final stretch goal. If you like table top gaming or just want a computer desk environment befitting Pillars of Eternity...come donate!

Thank-you Elerond for your thoughtful post. __________________________________________________ I am not trying to hold anyone accountable. I was hoping someone had some more information on a topic that hasn't been explored as much as romance or infinite arrows. When I first asked the question it was more of a clarifying question as to whether or not I missed an update that explained the last stretch goal. If one looks at the stretch goal map and takes: $1.5million to $2 million or $2 million to $2.5 million or $2.5 million to $3 millionThe game becomes a very different game with those new stretch goals. You do not get detailed information with each new stretch goal but you get specific global changes (i.e. Paladins, Stronghold, etc.) with each new stretch goal listed. It just struck me that the change from $3.5 million to $4 million would be a significant update to the game as well and there would be some mention as to what enhancements would actually be in the game regardless of how general they would be. It seems nobody knows what exactly "enhancing the game" means and that's fine. We all have guesses and assumptions and likelihoods and possiblys and one is as good as another at this point.

A simple question for a little elaboration on where about $500,000 dollars (roughly 1/8th of the game) is going too is all I asked. You would think that by the statement "After much team deliberation we have one final ultimate stretch goal. At $4.0m we will be enhancing the whole game." there would be a little more information at this point in time. If you are going to take my position, disregard certain key points of it and instead present a superficially similar position Y, and then attack position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed well... we have a name for that type of argument.

You can never defeat the "what if" argument. Goals that cannot be measured are not good goals and in some cases might not be considered goals at all.

I am looking for some detailed information on what the statement "use every dollar between $3.5m and $4m to enhance the game." actually entails. "After much team deliberation we have one final ultimate stretch goal. At $4.0m we will be enhancing the whole game. We will use live instrumentation for the soundtrack, add developer in-game commentary, and use every dollar between $3.5m and $4m to enhance the game." - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternityOf course, I can use my imagination and state that "animations will be more life-life, backgrounds will be more detailed, or combat will be more refined" but how does one actually measure those? This is not an expansion where we can see a before and after product. It seems to be a goal that is a little harder to measure or gage the impact of than other goals listed. (i.e. - Stretch Goal: Stronghold or Megadungeon. We can visit our stronghold in game. We can fight our way through the megadungeon in game.) If someone could be kind enough to point me to a link / video which addresses what actually will be enhanced and if it can actually be measured I would appreciate it. Thanks!

Supposedly, some "experts" are now starting to provide evidence that this photo was taken anywhere from 1500-2000 BC rather than 2200BC as initially believed. Evidence they point too is the ancient woman's jean shorts that are between a full length jean pant and jean short commonly worn today. Also, the subtle orange of the student's shirts lend themselves to a dye that was not easily replicated in 2200BC (but could have...I am not a scientist). One other thing, some of the symbols on the tables seem to be the symbol that appears on the Korean Flag. This could be where the symbol first came from. This, of course, prompts us to the obvious question: Did dinosaurs and humans co-exist?

Hit 'em in the feelers When people have gut feelings.... it’s really just gas. Hoping that it seems that you might suspect that I assume it's most likely.....probably You can never defeat the "what if" argument.

What it is...is basically the "what it is" that you see in the majority of forums on here: People who do not work for the gaming industry who explain, in detail, how the gaming industry works. A lot of them are students. Hey, no problem with a student but, get a paycheck before you start explaining on how Obsidian works. In the meantime, I want my thin crust pizza with extra sauce, light cheese, Chicken, Green Pepper, Onion, and Banana pepper well done. It's not a slam but just dont screw my Grandpa's pizza up! He's 86 ffs!