Master Dahvernas

I had major slow downs using a 5900 Ultra and those with 6800 GTs and Ultras have also reported similar slow downs. As I said in another thread, I think the big reason the smoke slows everybody down is because it is rendered in the CPU instead of the GPU. Also, and this may not be fixable at this point, but I still think the engine doesn't cull objects you don't see and is rendering every single thing -- Walls, Surfaces, NPCs, Doors, Triggers, Entities, etc. -- And that is also why people, regardless of video card, are getting slow downs as well on some of these levels... Like the Pergaus Fuel Depot that has a ton of verticies given the cubicle nature of the level and its depth.

I realize patching a game isn't as easy as 1-2-3, since patching one thing may damage something else... However, The Sith Lords has 19 pages of Bugs (see Bugs Thread) and some of them are more prominent than others across all video cards and hardware specs. Here are some of the ones I think should be fixed in the next technical patch (or patches): Frame Rate Optimization: I know this may depend heavily on graphics card (Nvidia; ATI) and drivers, and some say the game now runs better than ever after this first patch... But there are major areas where the frame rates still drop to single digits and become uplayable: -Peragus Fuel Depot (w/T3) -Peragus Mining Tunnels -Dantooine Also, while I this isn't a First Person Shooter where you need 100+ FPS to be playable... But this game doesn't even deliver close to 30 FPS on a consistent basis which is the bare minimum for smooth, fluid, non-jerky gameplay and that IS a problem I feel needs to be addressed sooner than later because it also effects cut-scenes and in-game dialogues with NPCs. Scripting Errors Most of these are Quest/Storyline and Trigger Event/Sequence related. Most notable are: -Telos Academy (can't leave; cut-scenes don't play) -Red Eclipse on board Ebon Hawk (they never appear) -Invitation from Exchange (Message never arives) -Returning to Dantooine Second/Third time - This is a big one in that if you leave Dantooine and return a second time (or more than this) and you've killed or want to gather the Jedi Masters... The game crashes and or just locks up and cut-scenes and other things aren't triggered properly. This is a game-stopping bug (like the others) that prevent a player from finishing the gmae even after reloading a save. Gameplay and Other Technical Bugs -Defense Bonuses not stacking -Upgraded items disappearing from work bench -Party Member AI Attack Behavior doesn't work (Bao-Dur is the worst) -PC just stands there even after you qeue up multiple combat feats/moves -Party Members standing around and not joining PC in battle -Etc, etc. What do you guys (forum posters) think needs to be addressed ASAP before anything else?

Prestiege Class Constitution bonus is basically for battle only. What would make this more useful is if they used the PnP (Pen and Paper) rules and added increased Defense Bonus that you get as you level up as well. There is a mod that adds this -- to both you, your party AND AI oppoents -- But it's not really balanced in my opinion (not that the game is hard by any means) in that it boosts other entities defenses like Cannocks and you have to hit them like five or more times. More in line with the PnP rules... But not practical for the video game in my opinion. Of course, again, this has a lot to do with the base stats of enemies being WAY too low and the game being a cake-walk almost all the way through. Also, there are errors regarding other Defensive bonuses -- like armor and upgrades -- Not stacking as well. It has been debated if these are in fact bugs, or how OE may have adjusted the rules since KOTOR they did stack (at least, I think they did?).

I said they are NOT being displayed correctly. The only way of doing this is to hack the executable (swkotor2.exe) at certain registry entries in order for it to read the DCC/EDID data. The devs should do this for the next patch as it can't be that hard (one poster showed me how to do it with the v1.0 exe, so I could run 1024x768 at 100 MHz and not 85Hz). Also... You don't really need Refresh Force. You can override the 60 Hz a couple of different ways: 1) DX Dialogue 2) Monitor settings (both ATI and Nvidia) 3) Most games do what we are talking about and read regular DCC info. and automatically return the correct refresh rate for a given resolution and you just select it in-game, or through an .ini file like Unreal Engine games.

You will want to just put your CD in the drive and play the game legitimately because, if you notice, the file size of the executable (swkotor2.exe) jumped from 6 MBs to 13 MBs which means there were a ton of changes. Besides, with a legit install, you shouldn't worry about not having the CDs, right?

Agreed. I'd rather have a bugfixed game than a buggy game with hi-def music and video. Especially since they still haven't fixed some of the major bugs. :ph34r: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As much as I appreciate them releasing the hi-def movies and stereo music tracks -- like they should have included in the first place to deserve the $50 USD price tag -- I too would like a massive bug-fix patch that basically repairs this game and brings it up to retail release standards. That includes the multitude of graphical, gameplay and scripting bugs that have been discussed ad nauseum on the Bugs Thread. Not even a third of those have been addressed and if OE wants this game to succeed... They need to gut-check themselves and rachet up their committment to us paying customers.

This is what I was talking about above. The game has locked resolutions and refresh rates. What is funny is that just like KOTOR I, pre-patch, you can't even go below 800x600 to something like 640x480, if you wanted to display the game on a TV screen like the original XBox version. This is really ironic considering this is a port of an XBox game that is supposed to be played on a TV screen to begin with...

Dream on. They haven't even coded the executable to be able to read the max refresh rate windows DCC reports for monitors like most modern games do, I.E. it is not locked to just 60, 75 and 85 MHz; It will read whatever your monitor is capable of handling at a given resolution going as high as 100 MHz to 200 MHz if your hardware is capable.

I want to confirm that this WORKS. I was using my ATI control panel (9800 Pro) to force 4x AA... But when I turned it off and set AA through the in-game menus... And I've not experienced this bug since.

Other players are reporting that a NEW problem has arisen from the patch and that it is exactly the one you are experiencing, Naso. One possibility is that the patch is NOT compatible with saved games -- There has been NO confirmation or denial on part of the devs about this -- So, you may have to start a brand new game and see if it still does it when you try and race on Telos (first chance to do so).

Invoker: Thanks for hosting the file. It looks like we have two confirmed testers that say this in fact does work. Once again, I wanted to help others with normal and average system specs and it looks like I have succeeded. This is who this tweak is/was primarily for. If you have a high-end rig, it may or may not make any difference at all, but you are of course free to try it out. Once again, thanks to everyone who was willing to help test and host this mini-mod. If others could post there results -- good or bad -- Feel free as the more data we get, the more validity this tweak has and possibly might be made a sticky *hint, moderators, hint* :D

This discussion brings up something very interesting about the KOTOR games and how they are designed and how you can metagame them to do what you want them to do: 1) They are action-RPGs with an emphasis on action more than RPG to some extent. This effects your starting character class because KOTOR I was almost always about playing as a Soldier/Guardian, or Scout/Sentinel. I am now replaying the original using a Scoundrel/Counselor character... BUT I am basically making them a qausi-Sentinel/Guradian by putting some of my starting attributes into strength and the rest into other areas, most notably Wisdom and Charisma for when I become a Jedi Class (Counselor) on Dantooine. 2) The Sith Lords is the same thing... Except you skip your "civilian" class and start directly out as a Jedi Class of your choice. But guess what? The best class is still the balanced class of the Sentinel because of its starting stats and feat and skill progression compred to the others. So, what one and two have to do with the original post is your best bet for the KOTOR games is to be the balanced class (Sentinel) because of the fairly rapid feat and skill progression, and if you allocate enough INT (Intelligence) at the start... At least 15, if not 16... You should be able to level your skills at each level-up fairly consistently AND bring them up rather quickly to where you won't be weak in any area. The only skill I purposefully neglect is STEALTH. Why? Because you don't need it in either of these games -- And even in KOTOR, just pump up Mission's Stealth (not your PC) for the Leviathan sequence -- And those points can be put into something more useful like Repair or Computer. And if you use the Cross-Class skill Feats for these, you already get an extra 1/2/3+ bonus on top of that too. You don't even need Stealth on Peragus because each droid is XP, and they aren't at all hard to kill... So kill them all Also, Lady Crimson is right. You don't need anything above awareness 15 to access any hidden dialogues or options. This is where Persuade and Force Persuade come in as well as your other skills like Repair and Computer (T3 upgrades) and Security if you don't like switching between party members to unlock a simple door or canister.

Not necessarily. The game runs like this (poorly) on the XBox as well. I know. I have it. But that is because the XBox has 1999-era PC components, so that is how it should perform. Also, the XBox doesn't have to render anything more than 30 FPS for an NTCS or PAL TV screen, so that is another differing factor -- Yet, it drops below that and appears to stutter just like on the PC. However, the real cause of these slow downs is the map(s) and or the engine are just not rendering things efficiently. Period. It doesn't matter if this game looks like a game from 2001, or if it is OGL or D3D. I believe the engine uses too many resources to do what it does (graphically) and I also am under the suspicion that it renders EVERYTHING on a map and doesn't cull objects you don't see, therefore, putting more stress and strain on graphics cards and CPUs that better-coded engines would not. Also, I think some of the effects... Like the Peragus Mining Tunnel smoke and other effects... Are actually CPU rendered which will bring anything... Even my AMD 64 CPU... To its knees because it just is not efficient in this day and age of onboard GPUs and VRAM.

To answer the original poster... No. The FPS problems are still there for the most part. It's not just the engine it is also ATI -- Regardless of what fanboys (pro or con) say. You've got two factors (Odyssey Engine and ATI drivers) that will never come to an "agreement" to actually fix the problem, so don't hold your breath. For the record, the game runs pretty smooth on my rig since the patch... BUT it still has a lot gameplay bugs as well as some of the maps STILL (imo) need to be recoded/optimized like Peragus Fuel Depot and Dantooine because this is part of the equation as well.

Well, not to nitpick... But it IS a major bug because it shatters the illusion that an RPG is supposed to create for the player by immersing them. Especially, a game that is a sequel where what you did in the first one SHOULD reflect somewhat on the second game even in small ways. It is these small things that show pride and quality of work by Obsidian. Obviously, this isn't important to them. Maybe they should stop making RPGs then? Hmm... The big problem (technical glitches aside) is that the default Revan storyline is the LS one -- Male or Female. If you say, "I don't care about Revan's history" or something to that effect when talking to Atton in the cell... The game automatically assumes the default, LS story for Revan. This is where some of these glitches -- And we KNOW there are tons of scripting errors; it's not rocket science given the state this game is in -- Show up because a gamer should be able to pick the choice they made in KOTOR and have it "stick" through the entire game in TSL. It does not. This is the whole crux of the argument and it is more of a technical glitch more than an artistic one if we are going to get right down to brass tacks about it.

The test of whether this is working correctly is if one or two things happen: SPOILERS: If you set Revan as a LS character in KOTOR I... You get Carth Onasai and Bastila as a subplot once you reach Telos for the showdown on the Ravenger. Also, prior to that point, Carth should be the Admiral that appears in hologram recordings on board the Harbinger. If you set Revan (M/FM) as DS, you get some generic Admiral because in the DS game, Revan -- no matter who he/she was -- Kills Carth and all the characters from the first game. In addition... If you have enough repair and computer skills and influence with T3... You'll get a holorecording of either Bastila or Carth (LS/Revan Male/FM) talking about how Revan left the outer rim in search of the real Sith threat and this is exactly why T3 was trying to find your PC (The Exile) in TSL. If you set Revan as DS/Female you get a similar holorecording, but you get Carth -- Who should be DEAD -- Sending T3 on a mission to find any last remaining Jedi to stop Revan from succeeding in conquering the outer rim (or something to that effect) and hence, why T3 was looking for the PC in TSL.

Wizard Thanks for testing this out. I had my suspicions it might work. No dev has posted here otherwise, so you confirmed what I suspect. It may not be a huge gain, but I think it smooths out the game a little more. If someone wants to PM me their e-mail, I'll send you the file to host. Also, if a few more people with specs like Wizard want to test it and post results, it would help confirm it does indeed work and give this little experiment validity.

I'd love to do this... But the problem is, and I admit it, there is no real "control" in this test even if I do this. Meaning, I am now using the full version of Wiinows XP 64 -- Which does speed up certain processes, games included -- With new drivers written for this OS and that I didn't do a FRAPS comparison on a regular XP installation with lower specs (AMD 64 chips are always going to give better performance even in games where the code isn't optimized because they have less latency and sometimes that can make all the difference betwen a baddly coded game being unplayable and actually giving average performance). What would help is if someone who has normal/average specs did a before and after FRAPS test because this is actually who I decided to post this tweak for if it in fact works. Like I said, I have no shame if it doesn't work, but at least I am willing to go out on a limb and try something for those who may not have the above average hardware that I and others have to make their gaming experience much more enjoyable :D

Then I think it was a bad decision, SW fan or not. Also, no offense to you since you are just relaying info... But I have a feeling that maybe the devs AREN'T legally allowed to say that LA made them rush the game and cut those sequences because it would be "bad form" to bad mouth a publisher/partner like that... Even if it is true. The big thing is... Since you admitted you don't play SW or the KOTOR games... The stuff they cut out would have actually FINISHED the game. The game in its current state is NOT fnished. Period. No iffs ands or butts. And this isn't a subjective, artistic interpretation. This is a scientific one in that the game is missing resolutions to certain quests, dialogue options have been left in (sloppy!) that lead to these cut materials, so on and so forth. This effects the technical quality of the game as well because this whole game is just a bunch of scripts that need to be triggered in sequential order (behind-the-scenes) and if you cut huge portions of those events and triggers... You're going to run into some major problems purely on the technical side alone. Again, I am not blaming you since you have no interest in SW or KOTOR/TSL... But speaking as a gamer who likes games that are story driven, I think you can see WHY people want that content in and why this just makes OE sound... Well, "stupid" to some extent because no developer in their right mind would cut out such vital parts of the story like this... At least, not on purpose. This is why the belief still holds among many that LA demanded whatever OE had done up until November '04 for the Christmas, XBox deadline and OE had no choice but to give them a half-assed version of the game. Also... As grateful as I am for the patch and patches (coming)... They don't address half of the major bugs that the Bugs Thread lists in excrutiating detail. I hope that forthcoming ones eventually do because I would at least like a workable game, if not a complete one

I gotta say... This actually one of those more "fun" XP glitches because if you've got most of your party Jedi by this point in the game... The fights are cake-walks and you can literally, as others said, fight for hours and just keep leveling up to almost 50 (or damn close to it). If you've got Keen weapons, FP Damage/Regen and offensive force powers (Wave; Force Storm; Crush) you will take almost NO damage and can just keep whooping Sith arse until the cows... Er, Mandalore comes home

Overview: I may have found a memory optimization tweak that may increase prformance for both KOTOR and TSL. It involves editing the Texpacs.2da file using the KOTOR Tool and then dropping the modded file into the Override folder in your KOTOR or TSL directory. I cannot gurantee this is an actual fix/tweak as the code may just be for XBox... But I did this and the game seems to play much smoother on my system (specs below) and this was BEFORE the recent patch. 1) First, you need Fred Tetra's KOTOR Tool that modders use to mod KOTOR and TSL: http://kotortool.home.comcast.net/index.html In order to use this tool, you are also going to need and install the Microsoft Net Frame Work 1.1 avaiable at MS: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/info.as...isplaylang%3den 2) Once you have both programs installed, launch the KOTOR tool. Be sure you are working out of your TSL directory structure (it will also work with KOTOR as well; The actual tweaked file can be used for both so it shouldn't matter either way). 3) Under either the KOTOR or TSL trees, expand the BIFs subdirectory. You will get numerous sub-trees. The one we are interested says 2da.bif. Expand the 2da.biff 4) Expand the 2D Array. 5) Scroll down the 2da file list to texpacs.2da. Double click-on and the 2da Editor window should pop up. The interface is similar to a MS Excel spreadsheet. 6) Adjust line two (2): Change the dynmemratio number from 0.75 to 1.0 What this does is tell the engine how much dynamic memory to allocate to the game and I believe .75 means 75%, thus leaving an additional 25% for other resources. This is done because the XBox and older graphics cards only have 32 and 64 MBs of system and or VRAM (Video RAM). Most cards and systems have in excess of 1.0 Gig of system RAM, and or either 128, or 256 MBs of VRAM. We want KOTOR/TSL to use as much RAM as possible so it doesn't have to cache many things "on the fly" from either the VRAM or system RAM as that will slow down performance and load times. OPTIONAL: Add a new line: Line 3: 3 256MB_32BIT swpc_tex_tpa swpc_tex_gui 48620 1.0 2750000 (the last number, 275000, can be anything. Just make it MORE than 256. It is in Kb, not bytes or KB). 7) Select File and "Save As 2da..." A Save box will come up. Point it to your KOTOR or TSL Override directory (you may hve to create this if you haven't already) X:\Program Files (x86)\LucasArts\SWKotOR2 (or SWKotOR). Just save the file and exit out and start up your game. Again, I cannot verify if this tweak actually works, but it seemed to make things a lot smoother and this is without any additional driver cleanings, reinstalls, formats and even before the recent patch. System specs: AMD 64 3200+ Windows XP 64 1024 MB PC 4000 DDRAM ZNF-3 250 Chaintech mobo ATI 9800 Pro 128 MB (Catalyst 5.4 Windows XP 64 Beta drivers) Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS (Creative Windows XP 64 Beta drivers) Hope this helps. I would normally host the modded texpacs.2da file... But I don't have any webspace at the moment. Also, maybe a dev could comment on if this actually works or not. I won't be embarrassed if it doesn't and would rather save people the trouble in going through all of this in case it does not.

Bug. In fact... A lot of the more serious bugs like this haven't been patched yet even with the patch release.

Interestingly enough, I am just now experiencing this... Something I wasn't experiencing without the patch. Hmm... The way I solve it is I do what others have suggested: I switch leaders and go a few steps and then switch back to my PC as he/she is running and it usually 'kicks in' and everything is okay.

And still you can choose a lower or higher texture pack .. I don't see your point <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Judging by your spamming of these forums with complete crap that has nothing to do with tech-stuff, that doesn't surprise me. .... On a related note... I've also discovered something VERY interesting using Fred Tetra's KOTOR Tool and that has to do with the textures.2da file that allocates how much memory the game uses with regards to different video-card RAM amounts. The defaults are set to 32 MBs and 64MBs -- Because of the native, onboard XBox GeForce 3 type GPU -- So, I added one for 128 and 256... And the game performs MUCH smoother (I dropped a copy of this .2da file into my Override folder like all mods). There are still problems... But they aren't as severe and the game is much smoother. I did this BEFORE the patch came out if you are wondering. With the patch, it is very smooth except for some areas -- Dantooine STILL has the problem (ATI card; have to have DVBO line in .ini file) -- As do other levels (Peragus Fuel Depot; etc), but the game feels a lot more fluid and like it isn't trying to load things on the fly like it may have been. I don't know if this tweak really works, but it seems to help. Also, the game plays better on Windows XP 64 than regular XP. This may be another reason why as well.

The higher amount of memory... detected correctly... Often determines what texture sets are loaded (and how much/many) and this directly affects performance. Especially, at higher resolutions. Video card RAM (VRAM) is NOT supposed to cache frames. It is supposed to cache textures and other objects -- Hence, on the video card and not system RAM which is infinitely slower -- Which increases your FPS overall. So, it is important that the correct parameters be detected by a program (any program; application or game).