HK-74

Mandalore is the only character I've had problems with. It seems that even when you have a ton of influence with him he'll end the conversation after a few questions and the remaining questions disappear from the dialogue menu. Most of his back-story came out in Kotor 1 though, so I have no idea what else he'd have to say. Has anyone else been more successful with this?

Why would it be live-enabled? To add to the game? To release fixes? And who would be bankrolling the production of add-ons and fixes? Kotor is not Obsidian's property, they're just the developers. You should direct the question towards whomever actually makes the decisions about post-production support for Star Wars videogames.

The Turbolift door is where you came from. The surface, where your ship crashed. If you remember when you came in, and got dissarmed, that's where you entered. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think that's right. When you are confronted by the Handmaidens, upon entering the facility, they seem to be stood on a a higher platform than your party - yet the turbolift is on that flat central chamber. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're right. I do believe that the room is where the Jedi relics are supposed to be. Boy I would have loved to see them and here the "confusing" questions they ask. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, I was wrong. I checked it out again yesterday and it does indeed seem that you enter through the turbolift into the central chamber. So, mystery solved - the turbolift door leads back to the surface, hence it being locked.

I'd have to play through again to clarify Goto's meaning, I hadn't paid much attention to him before now. I think, given that everyone in the game is a suspect source, any information they give needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. Besides, Goto is just an accounting droid after all.

Perhaps the people who like this game have something in common with your good self, as you seem to have gotten to the heart of the matter and answered your own question without realizing it. There are millions of people, myself included, who enjoy the original trilogy - despite the cliched storytelling, the plot holes, and the huge inconsistancies in the films (not the least of which being Mark Hamill's FACE! ) as well as the glitchy and sometimes plainly dodgy special effects. Why? Because those things pale in comparison with the experience of watching the films as a whole. We don't care that Boba Fett seems to be wearing a bedsheet, some mouse-mats and a back-mounted sink plunger, because we enjoy watching him. We can forgive the fact that luke skywalker is a whiney bitch-assed hoser simply because he's the guy with the lightsaber. We can ignore the very creepy incestuous kiss between luke and leia, the fact that the stormtroopers can't shoot worth ****, and Darth Vader's increasingly ridiculous outfit ("not being able to look upwards and having no peripheral vision, no, I see no problem engaging in a lethal duel. Oh, just don't make me tilt my head backwards otherwise my mask catches the light and I look like a forlon spaniel puppy.") None of those things causes us a moment of cognitive dissonance because we're enjoying ourselves. We're willing to suspend our (mounting) disbelief because we LIKE what we're seeing. Apply that to the current situation concerning Kotor 2. Everyone is aware that it is flawed, every****ingthing is flawed. The question is whether those flaws outweigh your enjoyment of the game. For some people it doesn't, for some it does. Clearly, you were more frustrated than elated by the end of the game, and that's fine. No-one's trying to Stepfordize you, you're entitled to your opinion - and given the pussified world we live in you're entitled to expect your opinion to be treated with a little bit of respect. Which brings us to why there is such a confrontational attitude on display between those who like the game and those who do not. It's very simple; Image that you're at the cinema watching Episode 3. You're enjoying the movie well enough but some guy sat behind you seems to feel the need to comment and critique ever frame of the film. Not only will he not stop doing it, but the fact that no-one else seems to give a **** causes him to speak louder and louder and louder. At the end of the movie the lights go up and what you see is a theater full of people sat facing the screen but for the one troll who is, by now, red-faced with exhaustion, covered with perspiration, running up and down the aisles and still ranting and raving at the top of his voice about every little flaw in the film - regardless of the fact that no-one is listening. They're leaving. Lastly, the internet is hardly the most likely place to find balanced and fair criticism. Of anything. There's a reason that the internet hasn't quite become that influencial and valuable feedback resource that filmakers and authors and, yes, videogame developers, and other creative types were hoping for; Websites, and messageboards especially, attract precisely two kinds of people - those who want to fawn in admiration of the subject and those who want to detract from it. Anyone occupying the middle ground is in a distinct, perhaps extinct, minority. Hence all criticism found on messageboards like this one or lucasarts' is pretty much worthless and rarely representative of those who use the product as a whole.

Goto's prediction is a hypothetical based on the continued destabilization of the Outer Rim. Stabilizing the Onderon supply line, securing the Dantooine outpost, etc, would negate his prediction. The Republic "lost" the Jedi Civil War - the Sith may have been defeated but they lost the Jedi, the Republic's guardians, in the process.

I'd love to. Please do continue to lecture on the process of game development, and quality assurance, because it's been ever-so enlightening so far. For your information, I believe you'll find that QA is a continuous process which runs alongside development from the initial builds onwards. In this particular case Lucasarts assisted in the testing during the final stages of production, or so I've read, which would suggest that they feel that the finished product was of an appropriate quality come deadline day, or they wouldn't have allowed the game to be released. As it stands, there does seem to be a few little glitches, mainly graphical, in the game which is standard these days - and always was, to tell the truth. If it's a case of meeting a production deadline or obsessing over tiny unimportant glitches then the deadline is always going to win. As for the engine itself, it's hardly as though Obsidian didn't have to do any work on it. The increased number of character models per area, the fewer instances of slowdown, the faster loading times are all testament to the fact that Obsidian, like any other developer, was working with the engine throughout development. As for what Obsidian did spend their time working on, those things were their choices. No-one's asking you to like the advancements in the various aspects of developing your character, and whether you personally see the value in them is irrelevant - even to your own argument. You also said this: "Efforts should be put into priorities, such as, fleshing out the story, giving gamers a lot of explorable content." Is it even possible to deny that you were given plenty of explorable content? Perhaps you would like to define what you meant by that term, as the entire game is "explorable content." I also find it ridiculous that you would claim that the story was not adequately fleshed out, given that so many people seem confused about precisely what is going on in the game even after they've completed it. You're given reams of information, from numerous sources, relating to the ongoing story and back-story, all of which has clearly been given much thought. Frankly, it seems that most of your complaints are based on your opinion, rather than any actual factual proveable problem. The one exception that I'll grant you is the lack of balance (in terms of difficulty/learning curve) as it is very possible to become horrendously powerful by the end of the game - but if you're using that as a comparison to disparage the sequel, perhaps you should play the original Kotor again and see if you don't have the same complaint.

We aren't talking about Fable here. We are talking about KOTOR 2... They had a year to work on story and the functionality of that within the game. The engine was already done, the skills, feats and force powers were already finished. The models were done, the weapons were done and the animations were done. Now, it's not my fault, they chose to focus on new animations and new some character models instead of fleshing out the critical components of any RPG. They had a year, and they didn't use it wisely, they upgraded pointless activities like swoop racing instead of giving us a little more "meat" at the end. Several parts of the game feel underdeveloped, such as the entire "get pulled along from place to place" ending. They somehow, took certain force powers that worked in the first game, and broke their functionality in the second game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> [ Mocking Imitation: ] We aren't talking about Kotor 1 here. We're talking about Kotor 2... If they'd kept the original characters, would you be any happier? I doubt it. You'd still be complaining because the game didn't match whatever silly expectations YOU had set for it. I suppose you're oh-so-right though, they didn't bother to flesh out any of the critical components of the RPG, I mean, it's hardly as though they created a new workbench, med lab, feats, powers and weapons so that you could modify your character more. And I guess they didn't put any time or effort into crafting good characters for you to interact with or a complex story to play through, either. And it's hardly as though they added a whole new influence system to enhance your interaction with your crew, or built new worlds for you to explore. God, what did they do with all that time? I bet they just sat around eating pizza and pulling their meat, what with not having any sort of slavemaster like Lucasarts watching over them. After all, how can they ever possibly explain a game which was built in a year showing signs of underdevelopment? They did have whole pre-made engine to work with, too! And as everyone knows, the engine is like 90% of the dev time all on it's own, once you've got the engine you're just weeks away from releasing your masterpiece. You are SO right.

You are quite a bitter little teenybopper, aren't you? Obsidian should be commended for doing so well in such a short time with only a handful of staff. As a mesure of comparison, look at how many people worked on Fable and how long they had.

The Turbolift door is where you came from. The surface, where your ship crashed. If you remember when you came in, and got dissarmed, that's where you entered. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think that's right. When you are confronted by the Handmaidens, upon entering the facility, they seem to be stood on a a higher platform than your party - yet the turbolift is on that flat central chamber.

Shouldn't this thread be titled "My DEMANDS for Kotor III" ? Regardless, the whole post is ridiculous. Here's why; 1 - What needs to be changed engine-wise? Nothing, other than to make it more dynamic. It functions perfectly well, it just needs to be improved. Any new engine will surely be based on the current one anyway. And the last thing we need is to stick a FPS engine in a roleplaying game - haven't you seen those Jedi Academy monstrosities? 2 - Yes, I think it's fair to assume that most of the things that you mentioned there will make it into any sequel, being that they are integral to modifying your character. Thanks for the no-brainer. 3 - What does the power of the platform have to do with the places you can go? Some doors are blocked off because what was to be behind them wasn't included in the game. Other doors are merely there to give the impression that the world is larger than it is. You'll have both those things happening in many games on many systems regardless of its power. Why do you need a day/night cycle? Of all the advancements they could work on, that should be bottom of the list. What does it add to a game? Look at Fable. That game has your day/night cycle, character ageing AND appearence alterations dependant on alignment, and they spent so long working on those aspects that they forgot to include the game. All those graphical effects and only ten hours to enjoy them. Whoop. Same goes for cutscenes; I'd rather have a bigger galaxy to play in than hours of FF-quality cutscenes to sit through. And in reality, you would too. Lastly, your ignorance betrays you in your final statement. I've no doubt that Kotor 2 was tested thoroughly, and that is is as "complete" as it was ever going to be. If you think that Kotor 2 is the first game to cut unfinished levels you'd be very much mistaken, and if you think that anyone other than Lucasarts has the final say over the Quality Assurance aspect you'd be just as wrong all over again. With that out of the way, here are a few things that I would like to see in a sequel; 1 - Resolution to Revan's/the Exile's stories. I'd like to be given a new character to embody while having the same level of commitment to the original characters story arcs as Obsidian gave to Revan in K2. Better yet, a storyline which eventually puts you in the Unkown regions aiding Revan and the Exile in the fight against the Sith would be ideal. 2 - If Revan and the Exile are included as playable or non-playable characters in the sequel, it would be a nice touch if we were able to load the character models from our previous Kotor game saves to represent them. A minor thing, but it would be nice. 3 - A larger pool of playable characters to choose from, and the ability to eliminate or add them to your crew as you see fit. For example, having 20 characters to choose from but only 12 spaces for them on your ship would add a tremendous amount of replay value, as well as tactical flexibility if they each had a different combination of skills. 4 - More planets. I'd happily pay $10-$15 more for a double-disc-dose of Kotor goodness. With some worlds already built, I don't envision it taking all that long to bring the overall number of planets up to 10 or 12 as long as people don't mind re-visiting the Dantooines, Manaans and Korribans one more time. 5 - The return of the droids! T3, HK, and Goto. There's plenty of life in those characters yet, and it gives us a solid foundation to cling to when we're faced with a new cast of organics. I have a feeling that Bao-Dur seems likely to return, so with him, the droids, Revan and the Exile and the new main character, that's 7 of my 20 characters already! Throw in Mandalore and we're almost halfway there!

[ Clarification: ] The armbands are commonly found by players, as they turn up in specific places as rewards for their particular quests. That is not to say that the armbands themselves are a dime a dozen, but that there may be other armbands which are not common knowledge.

You can quite often get a few robes on Dantooine - either by buying them at the salvager camp, or by aquiring the dead salvager's loot. I've found that after playing the game through a few times the robes have become quite common in any merchant's inventory, so it's a good idea to check the stores to see what's been randomly spawned each time you play. Robbing the Palace Museum on Onderon usually results in a decent robe too. They are randomly generated like all other items though, so it's possible to accumulate a hell of a lot of robes in one game and then to find them quite sparce next time.

The armband always remains as +1 Constitution. However, there are other armbands to be found, Nomi's Armband and Ludo Kresh's Armband are quite common.

No, if you threatened to kill him then you're never going to see him again. If you have the body of the dead salvager from the enclave, as well as the will (altered), take them to Zherron in the militia headquarters at Khoonda and you should get whichever lightsaber part you are missing.

i doubt it. i played through the second time as lightside and was able to see the holocron. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nope, I have destroyed it as Lights and Dark as well. As I said, I think its dependant on wh you take into the Academy with you. Handmaiden and Disiple both have ties to the holocron storyline so they are probably the key to not destroying it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, the holocron's survival is dependant on how you answer the questions about Revan when you first meet Atton. For the holocron to work, you must say that Revan was a darkside male.

You don't see his face, but you do gain more connection to the force by taking the mask as a trophy. Nihilus is Nihilus. He's not Bastilla, or Revan, or anyone else. He is a product of Malachor 5, and neither of those people were at the battle of Malachor 5.

1 - There's no indication that the Exile returned to Malachor alone. It's unlikely that the rest of the crew would wimp out on you, given that they are under your thrall. The confusion over this is because of Bao-Dur's recorded messages to the Remote; the whole "If you are hearing this..." approach is due to these messages being recorded long ago, possibly prior even to Bao-Dur joining the group. He does tell the Remote that reactivating the MSG is "all you were built for" and we know that the Remote was built sometime during the Jedi Civil War. The reason that Bao-Dur sends the Remote out alone to do the work is so that they can get the hell away from Malachor 5, leaving the Remote behind, before giving the order to active the bomb. 2 - Kreia wants you to follow her to Malachor, to face up to that last part of your past - and to make the choice; stay at the academy and wait for others to come (presumably so that you can take over Kreia's role, showing them the way) or to follow Revan into the Unknown Regions. Malachor is supposed to be at the edges of known space (correct?) and so it would be the stepping stone between the Republic and wherever Revan has gone to, it makes the choice more urgent. 3 - Revan took no-one with him because any and all attachments would be a weakness in the war yet to come. HK-47 explains Revan's stance on this in his convo tree and Kreia spells it out for you at the end if you ask about Revan. It is even said that Revan pities you for your ability to forge such strong bonds, and felt that it would be your undoing. Clearly, he had the Exile marked for some role in the war to come, as T3 and Kreia sought out the Exile before anyone else. 4 - Not all force adepts are dead, just most of the Jedi. The Sith at Korriban and Malachor are Sion/Nihilus/Traya's footsoldiers, presumably the left-overs from Revan's forces after the civil war on Korriban, or those who were still being "persuaded" to join the Sith at Malachor when Revan left. That's what Malachor 5 and the MSG was all about, creating a place of immense dark energy to use as a conversion tool to bolster Revan's forces. 5 - The acadamy must have air conditioning. 6 - I think that Sion and Nihilus would have been attending the acadamy under Kreia's teaching during the Jedi Civil War. It is clear that Nihilus became consumed by his hunger towards the end of the JCW, so he may have been active in the war - we just weren't told much about it. Sion seems to have become Kreia's apprentice after Nihilus, so if his betrayal of her came a short time before the start of Kotor 2 he would have still been training at the academy long after the civil war. I hope that some of that is correct and helpful.

1 - You, the Exile, ARE a wound in the force. You are not creating a threat for the galaxy, you already created it at Malachor 5. Revan has wandered off to fight the true Sith, the Sith Empire which rules beyond the boundaries of known space, the "Sith" you face in the Kotor games are Sith in name only, the creations of Revan's teachings. 2 - Kreia is highly conflicted. She'd love to get her hooks into you and use you to destroy the force, but she'd also like you to exceed her and put a stop to her insane plans, thus proving that her teachings were "right" and that Sion and Nihilus were failures because of their own flaws, not Kreia's. 3 - Yes, your team were the lost Jedi. You'll notice that Kreia uses the past tense too, "were" the lost Jedi. By the end of the game you have either shown them their true calling or you've missed the opportunity - or worse still, you've turned them to the dark side of the force. Whether these lost Jedi are "found" depends upon whether you've shown them the way or not. You'll notice that even if you kill all of the Jedi masters during the game Kreia still says that you must go to Dantooine, where you will find all that remains of the Jedi. If the masters are dead, then who will be on Dantooine when you arrive? That's right, you... and the lost Jedi. 4 - An historian compiles the exploits of the Jedi of their day, and looks after the accumulated knowledge of the Jedi Order. This would also include the safe keeping of any Sith artifacts that the Jedi have commandeered, though indulging in the knowledge and dark power contained within such artifacts is strictly forbidden. The Disciple (Mical, I think) becomes the victim of his own idealism. I think his ending is the same whether you trained him or not, lightside or darkside. It appears that he is unable to come to terms with the difference between his almost child-like worldview and the harsh realities of life, and this cognitive dissonance causes him to become bitter and cold. His inflexibility causes him to fall, his very commitment to his beliefs leads him to eventually cause suffering to the people he sought to aid. 5 - Lots of answers to this one already.

You could say just about anything you like, it's an almost-free country after all. The point is that absolutely nothing is "canon", not even the exposition in the movies. We're not talking about actual events, we're talking about fantasy tales created in the name of entertainment (and the mighty dollar!) and so anyone can bend the "facts" anyway they choose and be just as "right" as the next person. And if Lucasarts has entrusted you with the franchise (and is watching over your shoulder most of the time anyway) then you have a certain amount of poetic license to say "this is what is RIGHT... for right now."

Oh lord. This is turning into the A team vs. Macguyver. Some small points: The Exile may be Kreia's greatest student but that means approximately nothing. Revan, it's fair to say, wouldn't have been interested in dedicating himself to any ideology, sith or jedi or another. We know that he had many masters, that he has played the role of sith and jedi, saviour and destroyer, Revan has only ever been seeking to empower himself in order to face this unknown threat that we keep hearing about. Secondly, the Exile was certainly corrupted by serving under Revan. I think the chances of a Jedi giving the order to use the Mass Shadow Generator would be somewhat unlikely unless they were under Revan's thrall. Kotor 2 is ultimately about the Exile's redemption for that act, after all. And what does "power" have to do with anything anyway? Revan's story is one of prodigious and enigmatic talent, and galactic domination, changing the future course of the entire Republic. The Exile's story is far more internal, about facing up to the past, correcting mistakes, seeking redemption and learning about the ramifications of his/her powers. Revan probably has the more complex story (fleshed out in Kotor 2), while the Exile is the more complex character. Throughout Kotor 2 the Exile is learning a lesson that Revan already knows well, that the smallest actions can have enormous consequences. Revan is certainly the more advanced tactician, manipulator, and warrior. But if they must face of in an imaginary confrontation for the good of this thread, I'd have to back Revan - simply because there would be no real confrontation. Revan has displayed more foresight, knowledge and cunning, he would probably be aware of any looming threat from the Exile and nip it in the bud with a well-placed and impeccably timed dropping of a tic-tac.

Problem with that. First, game boxes have stickers with review scores and gotY labels, game ads display the same things including passes of review scores. So its without a question that review scores play part of marketing. Second, on the "dog eat dog" world of game magazines having a exclusive review of a highly anticipated game can mean selling a lot more issues of their magazine and lets not highly anticipated games are created by the hype machine, the publisher own marketing division. Third, the "true state" of a game becames irrelevent since its the first weeks that matter and on the consumer market of these days people tend to rush out and get the game instead of waiting (I did that with Driv3r, that lesson was learned) with means they get a lot of sales (shops no longer acept games because we dont like then) they would not get if the game have a lower score. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A good 85% (guesstimate) of games on the shelf do not display review scores on the package. In fact, it's a pretty good rule of thumb that if a box is plastered with review scores and quotes you can assume that the sources of those scores are highly suspect and not to be trusted, same goes for the game - or whatever other form of media you find it on, movie ads, book covers, etc. Usually it's a last resort of sorts, a makeweight when the publisher can't afford to plaster the game's logo on every tv station and cheap piece of plastic on the planet. Face it, any game that is trying to sell itself on its review scores rather than its own merits is immediately suspect. The review scores play a very minor part, if any, in the promotion and reputation of a good game. Sure, a crapheap like Driver may sell a quarter million copies despite being worthless, but that's the problem not the cause. With the ability to rent games before buying them these days, there's very little need to base a purchase on a stranger's opinion anyway. And yes, I know that not all games make it to the shelves of your local blockbuster outlet, but the overhyped and highly-scored ones surely do. As for your second point, I do believe that was the whole rationale that I presented in my post? And thirdly, lastly, you're correct. That's the cause of this whole discussion, the fact that people are duped into buying crappy games because of the hype preceeding the release. But still, they hype is only as serious a problem as you make it. And I'd assume, by virtue of the fact that you were stung by Driver 3, that you'll take the hype less seriously in the future and so it immediately becomes less of a problem.

If I remember correctly you are told by Master Dorak on Dantooine when he tells you about the recent history of the Jedi Order. When there is a choice of three or so questions to ask, picking the "How did Revan fall to the Dark Side" alternative he will mention that a third of the republic fleet was under Revan's direct command by the end of the war. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank you, I'll check that out later.

On one hand, we have aesthetic criteria. On the other hand, we have Mandalore's ramblings. On yet another hand, we have accuracy to the EU. Now, as anyone who owns a clock knows, the first hand is Hour, the second is Minute and the third hand is Second. This means we have two second hands, so we're one hand too many. All of us only have two hands so to have a third hand we'd have to ask someone to lend us a hand, and that's just asking for a slap in the face. So we're down to two hands, we're left with aesthetics and Canderous, right? And I see no need for the left hand to know what the right hand is doing. Problem solved.

Forget bribes, the term is useless and irrelevant to the "problem". Reviewers or critics of anything are subject to the whims of the makers of whatever product they review. The idea that a videogame reviewer would be paid in some way to boost one review score in one magazine, or that it would occur on a large scale across many outlets, is a little silly when a strong marketing campaign would be more effective. Simply not sending review copies to outlets prior to the release works just as well, if you seek to avoid reviews hurting the sales of your buggy game. Much more common is the manipulation of your games treatment in the industry press by virtue of access. Let's take magazines as our example. To be a successful videogame magazine, ie; to sell hundreds of thousands of copies, you have to have some edge over the competition. Since the format is print, this edge is most commonly information. If you have the exclusive Halo 3 screenshots and the six page preview and developer interview, you're going to sell more copies this month than the magazines which don't have it. How do you get it? You have to gain access to the material. What stands between you and the material? Usually, the PR people. If you want access to this game, and future games, you need to have a good working relationship with the publishers and the makers. How do you foster good relations with these people? You help them to sell their product. In turn, they will be more trusting of your outlet and more likely to give you more access to their games in development. This help you to sell your product, the magazine. Say that you have privaledged access to a game throughout its development, you're given screenshots and demos throughout the process and every month you have lengthy features on the game. You invest alot of time and space to your exclusive coverage of this game over the course of many months, telling your readership every little detail and hyping the games potential. Eventually the release code arrives, or more likely a pre-release semi-finished version of the game, and *surprise* the game is not quite a world changing force of messianic proportions. Do you then write a completely honest appraisal of this disappointing, bug-ridden misfire of a game, or do you make the best of it and promote its good points? Do you give it a score which is a true reflection of the end result, or a true reflection of your indebtedness to the company which made it? Maybe it's a long-runing and popular franchise game which is bound to sell a truckload of copies anyway, does the honesty of your review matter? And what will your readers have to say when they have paid for twelve copies of your magazine purely because they wanted your exclusive information on this "great" game, when they have invested their excitement and anticipation into the hype you've been spewing for months only to find that you've given the game a score of 30%? Your choice is simple; tell the absolute truth and lose both your influence with your readers and your usefulness to the publisher OR ignore the game's faults and give an optimistic review, hoping that the next exclusive game that you give extensive coverage to turns out better. One path leads to dwindling sales figures for your magazine and an unexplainable lateness in the arrival of review copies for ever game that publisher makes in the future, the other path leads to access to the early stages of development for metal gear 4. In conclusion, it is fair to say that all magazines and other outlets give the most positive score that they can get away with to any game from a major publisher. They know how the system works, and they are not foolish enough to think that they are so important to a publisher's marketing strategy that they can get away with telling the truth all of the time. Review scores are irrelevant anyway, they don't make the game any better or worse and the true state of the game will be known in time regardless. Besides which, their entire industry is based on offering completely subjective appraisals of a form of entertainment and no-one, especially not the reviewers, should take the process too seriously.