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Cantousent

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Everything posted by Cantousent

  1. Cantousent
    I don't regret it because I got to see what the people making Tides of Numenera (which I backed) are doing. I'm still optimistic though, my narrative problems will likely go away with a stand-alone story. Damn it, way to give a reasonable answer when I expected an angry retort! lol Okay, I get what you're saying, although I disagree about WL2. :Cant's slap on the back icon:
  2. Cantousent
    In terms of the XP argument, I'll leave that to stand. I think both sides have made a good account of why they feel the way they do. I'm against any sort of incidental XP, and other want it and want more of it. Fair enough. However, my wandering friend, you are not above the fray in this. I respect most of your arguments, agree with some, and disagree with your conclusions. Hey, that's why this forum exists. We fight over the ideas behind the design. ...But you're down here with the rest of us, getting dirty and slugging it out. We like you better that way anyhow.
  3. Cantousent
    I get you, Kar, but that cuts both ways. Don't pretend it breaks RP because you get XP, but don't pretend your only incentive is the XP and it harms you not to get it.
  4. Cantousent
    I hope you're able to locate and iron out that bug quickly, cause I'm really excited to see the progress the game has made this past month. Anything I could do to help your programmers with their work? Praying to a god of their choice? Wishing on a star? Screaming at them in german? Maybe burn some incense and sacrifice a goat? Hell, if sacrificing the goat doesn't appeal to their pagan faith, nothing will. ...And we can always say, "you don't want to end up like the goat, do you? I'd hurry if I were you!"
  5. Cantousent
    Well, I would rather see some objective XP than systemic, but I don't have the sta.Ina to keep up the fight lol
  6. Cantousent
    Yeah, that's it. I thought it was Escape, but I guess it was just Castle Wolfenstein. If I remember it right, there was a sequel where you had to return and sneak *into* the bunker and blow up Hitler or some such. Then the whole 3D came out and I enjoyed those games also. I was always a big fan of FPSes. I still am for the most part.
  7. Cantousent
    Any of you ol' timers remember Escape from Castle Wolfenstein? In the original game, it wasn't an FPS and you were British rather than American. Just like Wolfenstein 3D, you had managed to kill one of the Nazi soldiers and taken his pistol and had to make good your escape. It was really fun and you could actually play cooperative multiplayer with one person controlling where the PC walked and another controlling where he shot. It sounded good in theory, but it wasn't any easier in the long run. Made for some hilarious moments, though. So many old games. I still sometimes replay the old Infocom games like Zork and A Mind Forever Voyaging and the like. Fun times!
  8. Cantousent
    Yeah, but how many people do it just 'cause they hate Drizzt? And how many refuse to kill him even though they love the loot and the XP, but are Drizzt fans? I only killed him once, just as a lark, and then reloaded because it seemed like murder to me. After all, if I remember it right, you had to go out of your way to fight him. That's the one where he was a random encounter in a wilderness area or something, right?
  9. Cantousent
    So, you hated the story and the gameplay and for that reason you *almost* regret the purchase? What saved the day for you? Don't hold back, now? The story in WL2 is the story. It makes absolutely no sense that their great mistake is that they 'assume' you already care about the story. They crafted a story and you didn't like it. Works well enough for me, but maybe I'm just too pedestrian in my tastes. Now, I do understand the longstanding and boring argument about assuming the player should have empathy, and sometimes it can be refreshing to see a game that either allows for multiple motivations or assumes you're the bad guy. Fair enough. Every game doesn't have to leave the question open and not all games would be better if the designers did. ...But, hey, this is the internet where it's your God given right to say that you *almost* regret purchasing a game where you apparently hate the story and detest the gameplay. EDIT: Sorry, posted in reference to drfruitloop.
  10. Cantousent
    I've been thinking about this, and the cover looks so familiar and I looked up the game and I seem to remember one with hand movements, but I'm like Karkarov, a little hazy on some of the stuff from that far back. I also agree that pong was dreadfully boring, but it was a step. There was a really old game that was so simple it's laughable now, but kind of addicting back then. You started with a set amount of grain and a set amount of people. You planted grain and stored some in granaries and had a certain amount you fed to the people. Your population would grow, and you had to figure out how much to feed the people and how much to plant, plus rats could get in and eat your grain out of the granaries, so you couldn't hold a huge amount and you were never sure how big a crop you'd get. I think it was called Kingdom or something. Nothing but text where you'd input the amounts at a blinking cursor. lol Sounds like work now.
  11. Cantousent
    Yeah, my inky friend, I would have been 8. Then again... I'm younger than you. bwahahahaha :Cant's looking at the ceiling while polishing his halo icon:
  12. Cantousent
    I've always viewed the grinding argument with dismay. Yes, it's bad, but it's only one argument. There are poor arguments folks use in favor of kill XP also. One in particular really gets under my skin, but I've decided to forswear actually arguing about kill XP. I can't keep from reading the thread though, so thanks, ya wretch, for providing temptation to waste at least twenty or thirty minutes every day! Anyhow, my point is that it's not a single argument thing. There are some strong basic arguments in favor of both sides and clever folks who make them and after a while logic starts to get pulled this way and that like salt water taffy. The argument is fun, although exhausting after a while, but it certainly leads to weird side shows. I don't want to boggart the thread with discussions about rewards generally. Who the hell am I kidding? There's no turning away the "XP Bloodwars" even if I did try to boggart the thread. I just think that another little side issue is the question the Cap'n and I were discussing earlier. What rewards do people favor the most? This isn't a kill or object XP question. It's a question about the types of rewards that people favor most, from the sorts of in-game things like XP, loot, attribute bumps, etc. to outside things like STEAM achievements and story related things.
  13. Cantousent
    Are you not turning a turtle over through "purely physical force"? What other force are you using if it's not physical? Telekinesis? Aside from the argument about the topic, where I think Didier is right at the penny but wrong at the pound, I didn't even know you could even use brute force with the turtle. I've done the turtle part twice and I used animal whisper both times. I think it's a good sign that I keep finding out little things like this even after a couple runs.
  14. Cantousent
    I have to admit, I'm one of those crazy folks who likes to have a relatively low level adventure. I want it to build to epic proportions. If it starts out there or gets there too fast, it takes away some of the fun. I mean, second or third pieces in the series are different, but every now and then it's good that a dev starts low level and keeps it there for a bit.
  15. Cantousent
    Well, that just sucks! I won't have any reason to do any quests after I've hit the level max! I mean, why kill anything, unlock anything, or talk to any people if I don't get any XP for it? :Cant's tongue in cheek grin:
  16. Cantousent
    Hey, did anyone mention the SSI gold box games yet? I can't remember! Anyhow, I loved the Pool of Radiance. No, not PoR2, the PoS. I mean the ol' skool SSI game. At least I think it was SSI. Remember making your little cheesy avatars for your people. There was this one fight with tons of skeletons and your magic user would toss out a fireball and... FWOOSH! All gone!
  17. Cantousent
    Yeah, right! Your fb pic might show a sweetie, but after I send in my credit card info, I find out your a middle aged uni-sex truck driver from Des Moines! Bastard!
  18. Cantousent
    I remember an old blue and white paperback rulebook from the late '70s. Good Lord, that brings back memories. Later, I got the basic set, advanced, and expert sets which were full color. At least I remember it that way. Memory is the second thing to go. I can't remember the first. I'm trying to remember the module with the crashed space ship in the mountains. Damn, so many first experiences are wasted on people who just don't understand their significance. ...But, to be fair, I knew how world changing some of those things were at the time, even if I didn't fully understand how or how much. That was Dungeons and Dragons and it was Zork.
  19. Cantousent
    Great, a geezer's convention. The first time someone threatens to beat me with his cane, I'm outa here! <.< I remember Pong. I remember tape drives, "why would you need 64K of memory?", Adventure on the 2400, Space Invaders the Arcade game, etc. I lived on Guam during the late 70s and my brother in law worked on arcade games, so we could play them for free. How primitive by todays standards! Still, I have very fond memories of ol' skool games like Sun Dog, M.U.L.E., Temple of Apshai, Zork, and so many others. In fact, the Zork trilogy is still one of my favorites. Just think, it once took a mainframe computer to run the adventure game on which Zork was based and all of Zork 1 was included in... CoD Black Ops? It was a tiny *tiny* smidgeon of the code. lol
  20. Cantousent
    I normally only lurk in this mechanics stuff, but I'm really hoping I don't end up having to do a name search for Matt when the game hits the shelves just to see if he's managed to provide a simple explanation for the underlying mechanics. To be fair, with other games out, and not wanting to be spoiled, I haven't played much of the beta since the first run, but some of the wiring under the hood was a little on the opaque and/or confusing side. :Cant's fading back into the shadows icon:
  21. Cantousent
    They might end up including XP for everything, which I believe is a mistake, but the current design isn't a matter of convenience or lack of time. Now, Fox, before you get your back up, I'm not calling you wrong. I'm saying this statement is factually untrue, at the very least regarding Sawyer. Even before this project, Sawyer, in this very forum, proposed that kill XP was not good from a design perspective. Now, I don't know for sure if he meant all manner of incidental XP or just kill XP, but he's made statements that demonstrate his preference for objective XP for many years now. I don't tend to follow his comments or interviews elsewhere, but *here* he has been consistent. I even posted a link to his comments from over two years ago that demonstrate that objective XP follows his design philosophy rather than just convenience.
  22. Cantousent
    I agree, so why bother putting them in the design?
  23. Cantousent
    Okay, I'm going to plead a little bit of diminished capacity here, but I'm game to respond before heading to bed. First of all, I have to admit something. XP doesnt' matter nearly as much to me as being the 'good guy' in the game. I see RPGs as a way to be the knight in shining armor that I can't be in real life, so I argue from a position of logic about XP, but your line of reasoning is particularly powerful to me. Yeah, story based rewards are more important to me personally than XP rewards. I mean, if I'm really ****ed by the XP rewards, what I'm really going to feel is resentment towards the design team. That's not usual though. I think that being a goody two shoos or complete villain should be harder, but usually it's not that big of a difference. However, I think habitiuation, even for someone who sees it, is really a big factor. I tend to overlook it, but it's not always possible. So, even though I've come clean about my personal views, I still see XP as the king of the reward court *along practical lines.* I know that I'm arguing against my position on one level, but that's my honest assessment at any rate. ...But I don't remember anything about Paul in Deux Ex. of course, I don't remember Deus Ex right now either. Let me just say that I try to shoot straight on these issues, and for that reason I'll agree that XP doesn't *always* trump everything, but it nevertheless It is always a factor in everything, even when I decide to eschew it on my particular screwed up moral grounds. Ugh, rat bastard, I'm going to get some sleep before I argue any more. :Cant's rueful grin icon:
  24. Cantousent
    I don't understand the 'grinding' argument. I don't think the problem is that slaughter is necessary, only that it is incentivized. I'm not arguing in favor of kill XP, but I don't think it's 'grinding' per se, but the reward creates a huge incentive, even if the actual amount of XP for most folks won't necessarily be game breaking. I think we should look at rewards holistically. XP is the single biggest jackpot. It is not first among equals in the arena of rewards. It is the king of the reward court. However, there are many other rewards in the game, from loot, reputation, STEAM achievements, bragging rights, and story based rewards. I think it would be cool to discuss the reward system in the big picture, which is why ol' boney's poll could be cool if it didn't always boil down to XP. <.< Not his fault, just the way it is.
  25. Cantousent
    I think this is really the crux of the matter. It doesn't make any difference how much XP is awarded and this post shows it. You don't think that the amount of XP awarded for picking locks is game breaking. Neither. Do. I. It would be worse if the amount of XP awarded for picking lock amounted to two or three levels difference, but that's not the problem. The fact that some folks are fighting tooth and nail for something that they themselves don't believe is a significant XP gain makes the case against it in the first place. Rewards are psychological. It doesn't matter if they're large or minor. It really doesn't matter if a reward is trivial. A trivial reward for an action will incentivize people to do it. Sure, a larger reward will be a greater incentive, but the incentive is still there. ...And it's not a matter of the player, either. Any rational player will automatically be incentivized to receive rewards. He will always balance the effort against the reward, which makes picking the lock always the preferable action unless there is a significant drawback to taking it. Even trivial rewards can be huge incentives, and nothing exemplifies that more than the desire for lock picking XP expressed by people who admit that the reward itself is almost so trivial that it would be insignificant.
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