Gromnir

true... but how many ign reviews exaggerate bug problems? usually they downplay or dismiss, no? Gromnir will wait

we never had crippling bugs in kotor... like the leviathan bug. however, there were lots o' things that, when added together, really cheesed Gromnir off to no end. how on earth do they miss fact that there weren't no dw penalties for double weapons? in kotor there were feats that not work and powers that were screwed and quests that were broken and all the kinda minor stuff... stuff that you not expect to be busted in a console game. were no excuse for condition of kotor 'pon release... and ign claims kotor2 is worse? makes you wonder. HA! Good Fun! p.s. keep in mind that Gromnir enjoyed kotor... thought it were a fun game in spite of bug problems. is not like we is saying that the bugs ruined kotor. however, as a person who owns both an xbox and a pc, this is one more reason why we is inclined to wait for the pc version.

am also surprised that anybody would expect particularly great graphics from kotor2. heck, when you look at the screenies for kotor2 they look pretty much identical to what we seen in kotor... so why on earth is folks shocked at this point that kotor2 actually does look like kotor? heck, we didn't think the graphics were all that damned hot in kotor neither... and with how fast tech advances in the game industry, a sequel (kotor2) using same engine to a game that were itself were using some relatively old tech (kotor) did not seem like the most likely candidate for prettiest game of the year. *shrug* now, as to bugs... bugs in an xbox game... well, that is depressing. what the $@*& is the qa folks doing anyway? we were very unhappy with the 'mount of bugs that were in the original... and the sequel is worse? am still gonna get the game... but we may just hold out for the pc version. 'least if that version is buggy (and considering the vast number of hardware configurations it must work on there is little question in our mind that the initial pc release will have bug issues,) we know that it will eventually patched. will be a tough call for Gromnir come next Thursday or Friday. HA! Good Fun!

"So technically, you end up having a pretty large selection at different points in the game." hopefully that does not mean that actually we has a pretty small selection of npcs. the "technically" modifier does scare Gromnir somewhat. regardless, we will be getting the game so we will very shortly be able to answer our own questions. HA! Good Fun!

And what happened to Bastila? She was also tortured and had what was effectively her home on Dantooine destroyed. She will also have to live (if she does live) with the memory of having become everything she dedicated her life to fighting. All to save the man largely responsible for the near destruction of the Jedi Order and the republic. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> bastilla FAILS... she succumbs to malak's torture. you not recall that? and as to dantooine being destroyed, did anybody here feels bad for her when that happened? did she seem as if she were really saddened by such things? 'course maybe you can argue that as a jedi she would not show emotion... but did you, the reader feel particularly bad 'bout dantooine? is just one of the examples of bad writing in kotor. heck, unlike leia who is told that "in a way" she has chosen aldderan to be destroyed, you find out that dantooine is glassed regardless... has nothing to do with you. "For that matter, why bring up Leia? Unless there's something the movies don't say about Leia's insidiously evil past, she doesn't need to be redeemed anymore than Yoda" we didn't... save in responding to you when you got sidetracked. we talks 'bout redemption, and you start talking generally 'bout sacrifice.... says that there is no star wars characters who do any sacrificing... which is patently bull. as to heroic sacrifice... yeah, bastilla sacrifices herself so you can get away from malak... but then she becomes his disciple after a couple of days of torture. oops. heck, even bastilla's sacrifice were a weak thing. where were the pathos? at end of Empire, when vader announces that he is luke's father and luke chooses to sacrifice self rather than join vader, tells us what you the viewer felt. you feel any such emotions for bastilla when she stays behind on the leviathan? bio had numerous opportunities... and they fumbles most of 'em. "If, by the time we had received the revelation, we conceived of Revan as a total and complete monster rather than a sort of vaguely understood dead Sith Lord, pursuing redemption might have been more interesting. " you can see how bio didn't develop revan as a redemptive character, but you is still arguing that they did a good job? is you arguing just to argue? redemption is a key theme in kotor... many characters feels they need to be redeemed for some past failure. jolee and bastilla and juhani and revan (possibly) and others... and that theme, which is an aspect of, but different from heroic sacrifice, were generally handled badly in kotor... and lord only knows why folks would even attempt to defend this aspect of kotor. HA! Good Fun!

"I'm not sure what redemption Leia receives, maybe the fact that she kisses her brother but ends up in a non-incestual relationship. It definitly has its merits." *sigh* again, leia and yoda and numerous other characters is NOT characters who is needing or exhibiting the power o' redemption. as the saying goes, "only the damned can be saved." yes, leia and luke and others show us Heroic Sacrifice (which kotor also flubs,) but they ain't redeemed as is vader. lets keep everything straight, 'kay? HA! Good Fun!

*shakes head sadly* only characters that sacrifice is obi and vader? we wonder if leia would agree. she were tortured and saw her home planet destroyed, no? don't forget luke's sacrifice neither. luke may survive his plunge into the void, but clearly he does not believe that he is escaping. can go on, but again, you is getting yourself mislead. why bring up yoda? yoda not need to be redeemed, did he? maybe you not get redemption. the fact that most of the star wars protagonists is hale and happy at end of return of jedi simply reinforces the notion that REDEMPTION requires a substantial sacrifice

"If you're talking about Darth Vader, given that he spent 99% of the original movies as the biggest baddest villain around, I think it bears a rather distinct difference from sacrificing the protagonist, which is the role you play as Revan." you make assumptions.... and get sidetracked. Revan Revelation 2/3 through game reminded you of what? is just the most glaring example of a post episode 4 plot point that made it into kotor. however, trying to explain away need for revan redemption completely ignores fact that REDEMPTION were clearly a theme in kotor just as it were in star wars... and while star wars had characters who made meaningful sacrifices, kotor did not. HA! Good Fun!

what is the point of redemption w/o sacrifice? sacrifice is include precisely to give meaning to the redemption. imagine spider-man 2's doc oc w/o sacrifice... or vader. if choice

"A third possibility was that they were going for a more original 'Star Wars' feel....and in Star Wars (as opposed to The Empire Strikes Back) the movie ends with the smiling heroes all receiving medals for their bravery, not Luke sacrificing himself to blow up the Death Star." this theory might work... if we completely ignored stuff like the Revan Revelation. bio definitely wanted the cheerful ending of the first star wars flick, but they were quite obviously and intentionally following the story arc of the original trilogy o

what bothered us 'bout the kotor plot? redemption w/o sacrifice is bad writing. maybe bioware wanted possibility of happy endings

characters in game can speak, right? you can has narration, right? heck, iwd had still cut scenes that weren't movies... with good writing and narration they can add as much if not more than a movie sequence. not need movies to advance story... is ridiculous to suggest that such things is necessary. HA! Good Fun! p.s. keep in mind that we ain't saying that cut scenes never can add to story. they can... but the amount of resources spent on such things is ludicrous when one considers other methods that can achieve same story development goals.

kotor cuts weren't all that great, but they were ok as far as such things go. 'course, for Gromnir, cut scene movies is a big waste 'o resources. take lots of time and money, last only a few seconds and they add 0 gameplay. nevertheless, there were analogous cut scenes in the original trilogy o' movies so they were almost a forgone conclusion for the game. hopefully kotor2 developers not waste more than minimal effort on such things. HA! Good Fun!

where is options like CFO or benevolent dictator would be willing to consider creative consultant on a retainer basis. what did dave m do 'fore he left... fetch doughnuts? Gromnir could do that. HA! Good Fun!

is a shame that so much of the info posted above from d20 star wars rules is of limited usefuleness. occasionally some bio developer gets queried 'bout the kotor engine... a boardie insists that the kotor engine is little more than a modified version of aurora. bio developers universally insist that kotor engine is NOT aurora 1.2 or some such... they is quite forceful an animated 'bout kotor being different. this claim by biowarians has always bothered us. am bothered 'cause while sw d20 does use much of the basic d20 system, it does many things very different. armour class and hit points and force SKILLS is handled very different than similar stuff in d20 d&d. so, if you is creating a new engine for a d20 star wars game, why does you make look more like d&d rules than star wars rules? example: anybody notice how int were largely useless in kotor. only one skill were unique to pcs and there were only a couple of places in game where high int modified anything useful. now looks at the lifted material in this thread

am english teacher. ... we kid. gave up our career in academia years ago. nowadays, we is a hired gun. HA! Good Fun!

you not listen to darque? conquering nations (including indigenous american peoples,) has been killing folks since the dawn of time... and the u.s. has been no more likely to use God as an excuse than most others. HA! Good Fun!

just so folks is clear... freedom of speech is not so much 'bout getting to say whatever you want. freedom of speech is 'bout having to endure speech you dislike. HA! Good Fun!

Um... "foreigners" case in point. ^ I find it funny that you would be chiding others about their educations. The president by himself has little power, you are right about that. What you don't seem to understand is that there is now a Republican majority in the House of Representatives AND in the Senate. It will be *much* easier for the Republicans to get their way for the next two years (at least). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> why do you find it funny? you do not suggest that Gromnir's education is lacking, do you? in any event, we is quite aware of the recent republican victories, but that does not change the fact that the President himself is incapable of achieving any of the changes you prospectively attributed to him. HA! Good Fun!

"No, I implied that most engineers are socially inept. If you happen to be, my condolences. But I didn't make any observations about you, which is something you seem unable to avoid. Oops!" ... ever seen photos of the bonnie and clyde car after the cops shot it full o' holes? we read stuff likes the above and get all twitchy to do something similar. oh well... we let taks do all the work. HA! Good Fun!

please give examples... but please note that Presidents and Congressmen has been clergy, and God has been invoked by democrats and republicans and federalists and anti-federalists. furthermore, one wonders how you propose to separate religious and secular issues... abortion, school vouchers, stem cell research, cloning. heck, keep in mind that it were religious women who initially got the anti-slavery movement going. we got a representative form of government, and most of our peoples is religious. HA! Good Fun! p.s. again, we thinks you should look into discovering just how many atheists has won the nobel prize for physics. you got the typical college student's notions 'bout religion... which is fine. you is 'posed to question things in college... but do not be so arrogant as to think you got the answers.

separation of church and state has had many meanings... no doubt you thinks that your interp is the correct one? one thing that seperation of church and state has NEVER meant is that religious folks should refrain from entering politics... or that politicians should refrain from letting their faith guide them. like it or not, our country is populated by people who is religious... though they is probably less religious now than they was 50, 100 or 200 years ago. those folks who fear some sorta fundametalist nighmare (ala magaret atwood,) is, in our opinion, being a bit silly. HA! Good Fun! p.s. just for vv, you can discover how many atheists has won the nobel prize for physics if you wish. might surprise you.

is amazing just how confused people is 'bout what a President does... and can do. would make us think that some of the foreigners is right 'bout their criticism of our educational process... if it weren't for fact that we can see just how ignorant those foreigners tends to be. HA! Good Fun!