Gromnir

You know, that one sounds pretty fun. I'll have to try one out, all I need is to calculate what kind of Feats and Stats I should go for so that I don't gimp myself entirely in either arcane or martial matters. feats is the one problematic issue with this combo. sure, we gots all the skillz we could hope for, but we gotta takes skill focus: spellcraft & martial weapon prof to qualify for the 2 prcs... would take empower anyways, so that is no issue. gets skill focus concentration for free with ek... one less req to worry 'bout for asoc. probably wanna throw in a shield proficiency too... though that one is debatable. able learner is essential for Gromnir 'cause we is maxing skillz. we would get shield and martial weapon for free if we went traditional fighter/wiz/ek route, but this is a skills build. most o' your essential meta magic stuff you would have to wait on til you takes asoc levels... 'cause you gets loads o' good meta stuff for free with asoc. human gets most skills, but stoutheart halfling is gonna have a prettier character record sheet with better bonuses and stats. Gromnir am not a min/max stats guy so with spell casting prodigy and practiced spell caster feats we not feel any sting from starting with a 16 int or taking 4 levels o' rogue. str 12, dex 14(16), con 14, int 16, wis 12(10), chr 10. halfling stats is in parenthesis. not too worried 'bout str 'cause new feats allows you to eventually replace str with int modifier for bab. pretty much dump every available point into int... and make sure to takes tumble and umd. also, while saves is ok, they ain't great either. ek gets high fort. rogue gets high reflex. wiz gets high will. a 4/6/10 r/wiz/ek ends up pretty darn balanced, 'specialy if you go the halfling route with high dex. by the end o' motb you ain't gonna be particularly combat effective no more... but play through nwn2 and you ends up with 4 attacks and ability to cast 8th level wiz spells... not to mention access to virtually every useful skill in game. with motb you simply go 100% asoc and end up with a very powerful wizard who is having enough skills to take advantage o' just about any skill related dialogue check in game... but you does start to lag in the combat stuff. is not a pg build in the traditional sense, 'cause there is far better builds for arcane power and for combat efficacy, but this seems like a very nice build for taking advantage o' just about everything the game might have to offer. one serious drawback: you got no real room to add in crafting feats. gonna have to depend on your companions to do all the crafting stuff. *shrug* HA! Good Fun!

thanks for the feedback. Gromnir will probably stick with rogue/cleric and hope that the red wizard's homunculus has adequate thiefy skills.... though a rogue/wizard/ek/asoc would be a skillz hound and we would not need to depend on homunculi. oh, and 'fore we forget again, anybody know how motb warlock imbue works? HA! Good Fun!

is no spoiler or secret that the motb red wizard companion has a homunculus that boasts some thiefy skills. such info has been mentioned in a couple previews. even so, am curious if the critter is up to the task o' replacing a genuine rogue. one would expect that the dc for trap spotting and disarming in an epic level campaign would be pretty damned high. does the homunculus adequate replace a dedicated rogue for the trap & lock pick duties? HA! Good Fun!

thanks for feedback... will stick with rogue/cleric combo if ASoC not add something specific... unless there ain't no joinable rogues in motb. Gromnir took rogue levels to boost skills other than trap finding and disarming. will go a different direction if no motb rogues. so, any motb rogues for a mostly good party? HA! Good Fun!

am not sure if we played same torment game. wisdom gave luck bonus (which boosted amost all rolls), xp bonus and had the most numerous and important dialogues... whole power o' belief stuff that were at core of game, and those were almost invariably wisdom checks. *shrug* however, let us not turn this into yet another thread where we debates ps:t strengths and weakness. Gromnir only brought up ps:t to clarify a query 'bout motb... 'cause this is a motb thread. got something to add 'bout motb? HA! Good Fun!

not paying attention again? sand didn't play yet, so you don't know squat. clarification: there were maybe 2 or 3 bluff situations worth noting in all of nwn2. most dialogue encounters were simply diplomacy encounters... but there were a few times when bluff were helpful... but for 2-3 situations it would be kinda silly to spend 23 ranks in bluff. am asking if motb makes skills other than diplomacy more useful than they was in nwn2. diplomacy were near essential in nwn2 for those who were interested in dialogues. bluff and intimidate? sw, hmmm. sounds like maybe obsidian went back to ps:t roots. ps:t were pre 3e... no skills. many ps:t dialogue branches were revealed to characters with high wisdom. not have spot or listen checks or some other plausible wisdom based skill check, 'cause no skills were in ps:t. heck, the entire game were pretty wisdom centric.... were the one indispensable stat. 'course now we got skills. by chance did you play a character with high wisdom such as a monk or cleric? am wondering if people who played mages were seeing numerous intelligence based options. developers o' ps:t really didn't try to balance wisdom v. other stats... am wondering if they does same in motb. HA! Good Fun!

all Gromnir does is work... hardly any time to play. nevertheless, will probably get this thing... eventually. got some Qs for eldar and others who has played. 1) how does warlock imbue item work? is doubtful that we play a warlock, but the spirit meter stuff and new resting rules make it more appealing. crafting is kinda a neato advantage for warlocks, but crafting feats still seem to be off-limits for warlocks post 1.10. 3 essential factors for warlock to imbue in p&p: a) umd o' sufficient magnitude b) necessary caster level c) crafting feat. no crafting feats? so, how does it work in motb? 2) is ASoC immediately available in motb? eldar suggested that ASoC had some rp applications in motb... and even though Gromnir loathes prcs we will maybe give ASoC a looksee. after a glance at the prerequisites it not seems as if ASoC is like shadow thief or neverwinter nine prcs from nwn2... not have some in-game requirement such as joining a guild or somesuch, but am gonna double-check anyways. 3) is there a rogue companion available in motb, and if not, how necessary is a rogue? unless the one-o'-many, or the spirit bear is a rogue, we not see no rogue companions. was not a big fan o' neeshka in nwn2, but we kept her in party til late in game for useful rogue skills. so, if Gromnir wants rogue skills in the party, does we need to take... or is rogues a waste o' space in motb, or... 4) for those who has played motb, what skills would you recommends to those who wish to maximize dialogues? how much ESSENTIAL skills integration into dialogues? there were a few encounters in nwn2 when Gromnir noticed that some skill check other than diplomacy were made... but not many were noteworthy. ... feedback and insight would be appreciated. anyone? anyone? HA! Good Fun!

What's wrong with that? the official epic rules kills continued usefulness of melee classes. why take levels o' fighter or even monk if you not get any better bab or more attacks than you would by taking archmage or somesuch? 'course now we gots a novel kinda argument that suggests that continued bab progression makes the taking levels o' melee... compulsory. 'cause with 40 levels the gap ' 'tween caster and melee classes becomes prohibitively great. is some truth to argument if you compares 40 levels o' wizard to 40 levels o' fighter, and then set up an encounter that forces the wizard to fire his crossbow at an Epic Dragon. ... epic rules in d&d is stoopid and broken, and while obsidian approach is maybe less broken than wotc standard epic rules, the munchkins who has seen their super-caster builds gets busted should have sand support, 'cause obsidian clearly abandoned da rulez. we all know how sand feels 'bout deviation from rulez. honestly, Gromnir has not looked close at numbers... 'caues we generally dislikes the d&d Mechanics beyond levels 12-15. clever prc combos and equipment configurations determine outcomes of encounter before they happen... might as well leave your dice at home. epic is already a big stinking steamy pile in our estimation, so am not particularly concerned if obsidian or wotc version gets some gold star for managing to be the more terrible incarnation. HA! Good Fun!

fo2 ai were retarded... which is one reason that bis were gonna give the player control of npcs in bg3. even the slow learners at bis knew that a d&d party based game has gotta give the player control... bis and obsidian developers has specific noted that they would never makes a d&d game w/o player control. not care if you feel that the party leader situation for dialogues is feeling silly. is kinda obvious that without such a model you got some serious balance issues resulting. am all for adding more npc independence during non-combat encounters (and even infrequent during combat,) but the fo2 crap just ain't gonna happen again from obsidian. even the obsinaties has learned and moved forward. HA! Good Fun!

why? 'cause of balance concerns. in d&d you plays a single character. you play a character with crappy int or terrible chr and you is gonna pay the price... though wotc did a terrible job balancing usefulness of attributes in any case. still, with a competent dm, there is gonna be some disadvantage to having low int or chr in pnp d&d. in a crpg in which you control a party with no designated leader, chr and int becomes serious dump candidates... lower 'em to basement and it not gonna hurt the Party. dumbest character in world still gets at least 1 skill point per level. with a pool of even 6 characters you can be pretty damned sure that at least one character is gonna be maxed in every useful skill. and as for communication, you might as well make the paladin or sorcerer do all the diplomatic stuff 'cause they need charisma already. why makes your dwarf fighter have an int or chr 'bove 5? maybe for some feat or prc prereqs, but otherwise... d&d is a squad based tactical combat game. in pnp, 'round which the rulez is balanced, you control a single character. in a party-based crpg you controls a full squad, and typically have a recruiting pool from which to draw as well. why not let your crappy dwarf fighter with the 1 chr and 3 int avoid all the talking? for balance... so that there is some value to be taking points of int or chr, and commensurate cost if one chooses to tank such stats. HA! Good Fun!

"When a game, such as PS:T, tries to rise above its third class standing, a number of people in the gaming community pillory the effort as

has to do with the numbers and not tactics of players... which is the problem. and yes, a kobold with a spear can very easily slay a 1-3 level character with a single critical hit... as you is quite aware. dms is forced to cheat to keep 1-3 level players alive. once players get to level 4 or so it ain't such a struggle no more. clearly there is some flaws in the system. even if sand honestly believes that levels 1-3 is ok, the fact that those levels is much more dangerous than levels 4+ should be obvious to anybody that there is a problem with the system. HA! Good Fun!

cr guidelines don't help too much 'cause of simple problem that weakest opponents gots weapons capable of doing criticals. weakest and most worthless kobold adversary with spear is still capable of killing you with a single blow... but starting at level 3 or 4 is helpful... and simply cheating as a dm is most common scenario. HA! Good Fun!

oh, well, sure enough once people is down and unconscious they is complete safe... and trying to heal 'em with heal skill not makes you a target or nothing neither, right? how many heal spells does average level 1 cleric got? and Gromnir is talking 'bout sub-level 1 cr goblins for chrissakes. "Again, adventuring is DANGEROUS." it can be, depending on the dm... but more important is the fact that d&d is disproportionately dangerous at levels 1-3... if you use d&d guidelines for crs. honestly, you is being silly. HA! Good Fun!

you is not being rational. surprise! most weapons critical on a 20... some on a 19 and 20. every melee attack from a lowly goblin with a spear carries with it a 5% o' insta-kill? a dm creates 4 encounters with 3-4 goblins and you almost guarantee that somebody in sand's party is gonna die. ... gets annoying for everybody when rolling up a new character becomes a forgone conclusion for 1-2 people during each session... regardless of how smart they play... which is why all 3e d&d dms cheat. HA! Good Fun!

not matter how smarty or careful you is at level 1-3; you can die... fast... 'less the dm cheats, and all dms cheat to help keep d&d 3e characters alive until 3-4th level. spell casters has almost no spells, and other characters is also limited in their repertoire o' combat abilities. those means to protect self from insta-kills that is available to higher level players is not an option for 1-3. if you enter combat (and d&d is a squad-based tactical combat simulator, so combat is almost inevitable,) then critical hits 'n such make for pretty common insta-death nonsense. d&d at high levels is equally terrible. might as well throw 'way the dice. look at character record sheets and at a glance you can predict outcomes of virtually any encounter... pretty much all combat outcomes is predetermined. 4-12 is d&d sweet spot. HA! Good Fun!

"Yeah, I read through the changes that were posted (I had not before my first post). Instead of an Axe Master Prestige Class (example)...you'll just pick feats in that direction. Feats atop of feats atop of feats. It's the same thing, masked under a veil, to sell more books and make $$$." 'cause of pre-reqs, two players who wanna take red wizard prc is gonna have very similar character builds... prcs actually decrease customization as 'posed to a relative free feat choice format. end up with same old kit nonsense of past. ... 'course this raises another issue: all feats is not created equal. sean k. at least tried to come up with a system for giving some kinda cost range for feats, no? the more d&d depends on feat allocation for customization, the greater attention wotc must devote to making sure feats is better balanced. HA! Good Fun!

Oh, Gromnir's already there... they are changing spells AFAIK. From what I get theere will be less spells and they'll workf per encounter. I may be wrong tho. am not a fan of the warlock as a class in 3e, but the notion o' having a relative small number o' possible invocations that can be improved or customized as one levels seems like a good idea. the huge catalog o' spells is one thing that makes mages so powerful... is just no possible way to balance all possible spells and combinations o' spells and metamagic enhancements. with each new d&d supplement we gets new spells, which only seems to exacerbate the balance issues. if d&d 4th moves away from huge spell lists we will be pleased, but just as d&d 3e only started with a tiny number of prestige classes, it seems inevitable that the numbers will explode... 'less they revamp and does more similar to warlock. ultimately we would likes to see divine v. arcane split done away with... and abolish classes altogether, but that will have to wait for 10e we s'pose. HA! Good Fun!

star wars/saga combat is better than d&d 3e... or 3.5 or wherever we is at now. the thing is that most of the things that is really busted with d&d for Gromnir will inevitably remain... alignment, prestige classes, growing number o' playable ecl races, excessive spells lists, etc. if d&d were a house on fire, wotc efforts to makes a new edition would be equivalent o' installing pergo in the kitchen. sure, the pergo is a cost-effective improvement, but for chrissakes, the house is on fire! HA! Good Fun!

disagree. always listen to fans... just don't let what you learn from fans prevent you from doing what you thinks would make game better. HA! Good Fun!

"It's a business matter about a really old trademark license-- it's nowhere close to molesting children or buying Bentleys for their executives." you and Gromnir both know that facts of the case will not be what plays in court of public opinion. media will dig and find dirt on both j&j and rc for just so long as this is a relevant and juicy news topic. the actual facts of the case will be dry and dull, and that wont stop journalists from making interesting. the rc has dirt... loads of dirt. as for walsingham points... there is many other charities that not spend donated money on organizational costs. you donate money for katrina victims or homeless in Albuquerque and you probably want more than 30 cents on dollar going to those particular causes, no? HA! Good Fun!

"But irrespective of how good or bad the Red Cross are, they are certainly seen as good, and picking a fight with them? Sure, and why not punch a few nuns whle you're at it? Genius!" the red cross has loads of dirty laundry. they get a free pass from most of us 'cause they is the biggest charity in this country and we all recognize that they is present at every major disaster. your "punch a nun" example is actually worth mentioning, 'cause for a long time it were also taboo to sue the catholic church. the % of pedophile priests is actually far less than % o' pedophile school teachers or pedophile little league coaches, 'but 'cause of well-documented court cases the church has taken a serious pr hit with the general public. somebody had to be willing to punch a nun somewhere along the way, no? as for anecdotal evidence 'bout how wonderful individual red cross members is... please. taks already pointed out the flaw in that logic, so no need for us to reexamine. regardless, when you give money to the red cross, some significant % of every dollar you donate is going to cover their organizational costs and to be thrown into their interest bearing rainy-day funds. even w/o corruption concerns, the red cross is a business that is in business to stay in business. most people working for red cross is not volunteers. many such employees gots company cars and go to work at offices/facilities that is at least as nice as Gromnir's. you thinks people is gonna stop buying band-aids 'cause of this law suit? HA! red cross is the folks who has more to lose. johnson and johnson is still gonna sell toothpaste and band-aids as long as they makes a good product and sell at competitive prices. red cross, on the other hand, has no product to sell other than their reputation. HA! Good Fun!

google it if you wish... we did the research a few years ago, but is not as if we saved it. search for red cross + corruption or embezzlement. search for american red cross + (add some foreign disaster here.) search for info regarding % of a donated $ that actually reaches victims. ... there is a reason that the well-paid red cross president resigned post 9/11. all that media exposure weren't good for red cross. most big charities with paid employees is gonna suffer similar problems... which is why Gromnir tends to avoid such organizations when we donate. HA! Good Fun!

actually, the red cross has a pretty well documented history o' deceit and corruption. as a large charity with lots o' paid employees, it probably should come as no surprise that the red cross has taken some considerable pr hits of their own over the years. in point o' fact, in a complete 180 to gd pov, the red cross is one charity that Gromnir would never volunteer monies to as we is quite disappointed with their track record of actually getting a significant % of donated money/supplies to victims. HA! Good Fun!

by the time your son is in high school there probably won't be no textbooks anymore. and Gromnir loves standardized tests. the the federal bell-curve were invented so that we coulds stomp on our peers and embarrass our teachers. if meaning o' life were filling in the correct bubbles with a number 2 pencil, then Gromnir would be king o' the world. oh, and just so that we is all clear, Gromnir acknowledges that our preternatural ability to bust standardized tests is pretty much proof that they is worthless. HA! Good Fun!