Gromnir

dove combat stats in Gromnir's party late in chap 3 with typical buffs: attack bonus 53/48/43/38/33/28 damage 1-8 +7 (crit 17-20 x2) +1d12 slash +1d12 (magic) v. outsiders +9 physical +3 magical +1 slashing +2 magic +1d6 divine v. evil +9 divine damage ac 53 not bad, eh? HA! Good Fun!

"My 15wiz/14spirit shaman..." no wonder you had problem with ancient vamp sr. caster level o' 15 or 14 (even with the spell penetration feats) ain't gonna often be able to touch critters with sr o' 30+... and there is too many vamps in those vault battles to assay resistance 'em all. HA! Good Fun!

okku is the tank. you want a tank, then okku is your guy. however, please keep in mind that an appropriately buffed and outfitted cleric is gonna be equal or better than any tank obsidian could come up with. dove already gots big wisdom, so throw a couple extra points into charisma... and take divine shield. there is a nymph cloak +6 available early in game so you can probably get dove's chr modifier up to +8 or +9 w/o much effort. she already gots extra turning, so spam away with divine shield and divine might before every battle. +8 or +9 to damage and ac is nothing to sneeze at. spell buffing is key for the cleric combatant. extend and persistent metaspell feats become almost necessary for a tank. cast persist divine favor and prayer. cast extend divine power and battletide. cast extend recitation 'fore big battles. most of the stat boosting spells is a waste 'cause you can find belts and cloaks and other items that boost better than bull's strength or eagle's splendor anyways... and stat boosts don't stack. heck, divine power alone gives dove same bab as a fighter of same level. also, while dove carries a puny little mace when you meet her, she can use any martial weapon. for some odd reason it seems that the best weapons in game are either 2 hand weapons or they is exotic weapons. you is probably gonna want to have dove use a shield, so best route is probably to craft something for dove. Gromnir avoids crafting 'cause it seems like overkill, but if dove is gonna be your tank, then you should think 'bout customizing her a super weapon. use your friends. gann can cast tortoise shell, and or barksin 'pon dove... and make sure somebody can stoneskin her. red wizard can cast haste (potentially persistent haste,) and a few other buffing spells. umd is another way to turn dove into a tank. her umd will never be good 'nuff for using scrolls, but to use wands and any items in game requires that dove probably have 'bout ten ranks in umd. for dove you only get 3 skill points per level, so if you already gained a bunch o' levels with dove and spent points elsewhere, this may not be an option. regardless, keep in mind that spells like displacement, mirror image and ghostly visage, spells that normally can only be cast by a caster on self, is wonderful wand fodder. dove can be a tank, but as the spirit meter makes resting options more limited, you is gonna have to be careful with dove's spamming of spell casting... you may have to pretty much put her in puppet mode so that she does what you want her to do. so am assuming that you insist on both gann and safiya in party? gann has some neato abilities, but he is largely superfluous if you got dove and safiya in party. dove can heal and buff, and between dove and red wizard you gots some serious damage potential from offensive spells. *shrug* dove is a serious melee weapon, if you is willing to micromanage. HA! Good Fun!

"Oh and also the part where I never complained about it." is tough to genuine complain 'bout your own foolishness. HA! Good Fun!

if your vamps is resistant to sunbursts, then chances is they will be resistant to heals. overcome spell resistance is a dc based on caster level. obvious thing to do is come back when you is higher level, or after you gets your casters the spell penetration feats. igms has advantage that at least a couple of the multiple missiles will probably get through high resistance. glyphs o' warding does not seem to be subject o spell resistance. if you use some cannon fodder summons and a few glyphs o' warding you can do some serious damage to just 'bout anything in game. dunno. Gromnir played as a rogue/cleric. always have mass death ward cast in the vault areas, and if we thoughts battle were near we would cast divine power, battle tide, and use divine might... then Gromnir and okku would wade into battle and reduce all foes to little bits o' hamburger. had pretty high ac, but could aways have gann cast tortoise shell and foundation o' stone on us... made us pretty much unhittable and un knockable. rarely had to cast spells at the undead monks. however, w/o a couple o' tanks, those monks might be difficult... specially if your casters ain't built to overcome sr. *chuckle* is metagaming in a big way, but you can set up Multiple glyphs previous to a battle. a half dozen o' those things do serious damage... all divine damege an no sr to overcome... which ain't the way the is 'posed to work, but as obsidian not seem like they is ever gonna patch, you can take advantage of their blunder. either use summons to attract the undead, or you can always use pmd route. with auto-resurrect it not matter if you gets blasted for 580 hps o' divine damage, as long as one of your party mates survives. ps pmd = polish mine detector... use person to set off bomb/trap. not a very pc term. HA! Good Fun!

Come up with obvious solutions? Probably not. If I had a silverbullet that eliminated game balance issues and still kept players happy, who says you gotta keep all players happy? you can never make all players happy. you asked vol and then Gromnir what other options did obsidian have available, no? "How?" simple. make no sleepy areas. same end result. sure, you end up with cheesed off players, but so what? balance always cheeses off players. the thing is, you spend virtually 0 resources to implement such a "feature" as 'posed to the broken spirit meter. same end result and probably less game frustration for most players and at what kinda man hour cost to developers? oh, and for the high and mighty role-players: how did you replenish spirit meter after skein? is quite a number o' options. only one option does Gromnir preclude: no soul devouring. soul devour o' coven would indeed replenish, but such is clearly a foul and evil act... so no soul devour. ... all options Gromnir conceive involve mindless abasement to spirit meter mechanic. go to place where you know undead is confined (those offering urns in dead god's vault are functionally the same as power up gems in some crappy console game.) go to area of world map where you know spirits respawn and devour a few following a "battle" with an inevitable conclusion? is evil, and is different from undead offering urns how? gameplay ends up same even if awards is slight different. fight some meaningless and tangential battle to gets your power up boost? great gameplay... works exactly as developers envisioned. *snort* maybe you use world map to do a quest, coupled with suppress? step 1) suppress 2) use world map to travel to wells of lurre 3)complete dream lover quest 4) use suppress again. 5) return to town and suppress once more. oh wait, that is taking advantage of crazy travel disparity vs. resting depletion. spirit bar depletes slower from 2 days travel than for resting 8 hours... and more than a day worth o' travel means you get refresh o' suppress. sadly this again is taking advantage o' the system. now, if Gromnir simply avoids the above options and goes ahead with thaymount, we can then be secure in knowledge that we is not working the system... 'course as our spirit meter is in the 40's range post first play through of skein, and travel to thay is instantaneous, so no replenishment o' suppress or eternal rest occurs. leaves us in a precarious situation. am suspecting that this is exactly what the legion o' genuine role-players did... to maintain the integrity o' the spirit meter mechanic. HA! unlikely. what a waste o' energy. can use any number of the above broken or mindless methods, or we can simply say "screw this," and rest and suppress a half dozen times in the span o' 30 seconds o' real time. is no less broken or stoopid, but has advantage of being less annoying and much faster. HA! Good Fun! ps spider did open self up big time with that bit 'bout not having bothered to read the feat descriptions... fact that he chose some mod that would knowingly prevent him from being able to read info in a game he had never played before just tickles our funny bone. pretty much absolves the developers o' any sin as you really did ask for a handicapped game experience.

"I hate to be the one to say this, but Gromnir you do know that if you just play the game..." coming from the guy who didn't read the spirit meter feat descriptions we find this amusing. heck, given your self imposed ignorance you didn't have much choice but to simply "play the game," whatever the heck that means. and yeah, Gromnir could bury head in the sand and simply try to avoid rest as long as possible, pretend that the spirit meter were discouraging us from resting, but that would not change the fact that the mechanic is busted. if only way for spirit meter to work is if Gromnir pretends to be foolish or to not bother to read in-game dialogs or descriptions, then the mechanic is still gonna be busted. and again, as Gromnir has pointed out before, the obvious flaws in the system not change the gameplay at all... only real change were to save us some actual game time dealing with an otherwise annoying little feature. HA! Good Fun!

"Assuming it was to prevent players from sleeping and rebuffing I was just curious as to how to handle that much better." am sure you can answer your own question. if goal is to prevent excessive resting in certain areas, what simple and direct method(s) would you use to preclude such resting? ... no doubt you can come up with an obvious solution, eh? the developers knew that simply preventing rest would bother some players... so they gots clever and made into a kewl mechanic. turn weakness into a strength? good idea... if not for poor execution. net gain from implementing spirit meter rather than limiting rest directly... and was it worth the development time to implement? *shrug* HA! Good Fun!

How? the mechanic is busted. wanna reduce craving to min levels? find one of the many spots with friendly or neutral spirits... and rest repeatedly. the point of the mechanic is to discourage rest, but if you wanna get craving minimized resting a half dozen times w/o doing any other actual gameplay is probably your quickest route. the first couple times you rest your spirit meter will drop, 'cause crave is too high, but eventually you end up with a net gain to spirit meter following rest. rinse and repeat... rinse and repeat. is mindless and stoopid and illogical. other method for quick fill of spirit bar is to purposefully rest in dangerous places where undead respawn. use eternal rest a couple times and you is at 100. game encourages Gromnir to take advantage o' resting respawns? huh? stoopid. spirit meter took Gromnir out of the game world... most obvious and bestest ways to deal with spirit bar felt like loopholes and cheats. is bad design when obvious way to deal with a game mechanic is not furthering gameplay. mindless drudgery. oh, and the amount of alignment points granted for use of spirit related feats were often perplexing. 2 points lawful for suppress? is FAR too extreme an award/penalty compared to other alignment point adjustments offered in game. weren't painful to Gromnir as alignment had no bearing on our character class choices, but am understanding why some druid or barbarian players were angered... particularly as there were no way for those players to know ahead o' time that their character concept might become much more difficult to maintain throughout motb. oh, and the spirit meter also made ai of party spell casters that much more irksome. Gromnir knows how to be frugal with spell casting... but party members do not. yeah, some insanity such as red wizard casting greater magic weapon on an ENEMY is old news to Gromnir, but when in skein the bird girl unleashes a storm o' vengeance on a handful of spirit rats? forces us to babysit all spell caster npcs in those few limited rest areas. for Gromnir, the only gameplay value o' the spirit meter were to make us less likely to rest in 2(possibly 3) areas of game. what a terrible waste of developer resources... spirit meter were far too complex (and easily circumvented) mechanic to achieve such a limited end. 'course for the evil players the spirit meter does offer a much different set of hurdles and benefits, and as such there is some added replay value... but Gromnir gots no urge to explore such opportunities, nevertheless we does concede that the motb spirit meter does afford additional gameplay avenues. HA! Good Fun!

not matter that it is a recipe and that you meet level requirements. there is a TOTAL number o' essences that a level 21 mage can add to a weapon/armour/item. try add level 21 vorpal and +6 and maybe you can't do both 'cause too many total essences go onto weapon for a levle 21 caster to manage. again, Gromnir not know max total number o' essences a level 21 mage can add... should check if you wanna go the enchant route. HA! Good Fun!

anybody know the pre-order and current sales numbers for motb? seem like the pivotal issue regarding the possibility o' another nwn2 expansion is to be knowing how well atari is doing with the current expansion. am hopeful that the lack o' a patch is not some harbinger o' nwn2 death... HA! Good Fun!

please keep in mind that in addition to the level requirements to enchant a weapon with a +6 (or whatever,) there is also a max number o' brilliant and/or pristine essences that can be added to a weapon that is also based 'pon caster level. is not like nwn2. am not sure what is maximum number o' brilliant essences a 21 level caster can add to a weapon, but you might wanna find out if you intend to do more enchanting. HA! Good Fun!

unsummon kaji... if that not work, rest and have all spell effects end before using world map. had same problem. HA! Good Fun!

igms not need to be targeted. igms does magic damage. igms not subject to a saving throw. 'gainst stuff that has impossible saving throws, a maxed igms is gonna do big damage. is particularly effective when paired with avasculate. ps you IS in the spoiler section... yutz. HA! Good Fun!

spirit hunger as the mechanism utilized by developers to ensure that players don't abuse resting is flawed. nevertheless, some such mechanic were advisable. all those fodder battles, the non-boss battles, becomes somewhat silly if tale is able to use vampiric feats each time, no? make bitter pill easier to swallow by making integral to story? is a good approach... but that not change fact that spirit hunger is a quirky device that leads to some odd gameplay approaches... is no better than the near universally abandoned required food consumption mechanic. HA! Good Fun!

as has been noted many times, there is a cost for resting in motb. HA! Good Fun!

epic spells is nukes... 1 shot per day. not very efficient. also, technically speaking, vampiric feast has the evil descriptor. good casters should not be able to use w/o cost. HA! Good Fun!

yeah. disintegrate is simply a nifty spell... particularly at high levels. every boss, not only the undead ones, is seemingly immune to death magic. disintegrate is not death magic. mass heal and storm o' vengeance is the cleric spells we thinks is arguably in same league as disintegrate for high level undead slaying... but as eldar notes, disintegrate is cheaper; more bang for the buck. HA! Good Fun!

"As for undead, in the OC I took casivar the paladin and the gith cleric to help defend the walls in the defense of the keep. It was pretty much a cake walk. with them turning, killing undead like it was going out of style, I could focus on destroying the siege towers. they were the perfect combo IMO of handling that encounter." the cleric available to you in motb has ridiculous high wisdom and charisma. even so, your clerics won't be able to turn much of anything in motb... the undead have too many hds. at epic levels turn attempts is useful for little save to power various feats. storm of vengeance is fantastic, and firestorm is solid... sunburst/sunbeam is okie dokie if less efficacious than you might s'pose... and mass death ward is pretty much essential. a paladin with mega charisma and epic divine might is a serious weapon 'gainst undead... and anything else for that matter, but the cleric & paladin turn attempts and spell arsenal is increasing useless as you level. disintegration. no 20d6 max like many other damage spells... tops out at 40d6. boost the red wizard's int as high as possible, and make sure to take epic transmutation focus... her spell DCs will be in the 40s. undead trying to make a +40 DC fort save? maxed igm and empowered disintegrations is far better undead killers than anything the motb clerics got available. HA! Good Fun!

1 quick observation about transmuters: disintegrate is the all-time most underutilized d&d anti-undead spell... evar. in previous incarnations o' d&d disintegrations would make 1007 disappear, but that ain't the case no more. kill the critter and his goodies remain intact. particularly noteworthy is that disintegrate is NOT death magic but it does require a fort save. is almost unique in that it requires a fort save but ain't one of the numerous things undead is immune to. undead, with few exceptions, have relative crappy fort saves... 'cause when you add the various undead templates to a creature you reduce constitution to 0... is one o' the seemingly few drawbacks to being dead in d&d. red wizards gotta specialize. if you is gonna have a red wizard npc in a game with loads o' undead, transmutation is the primary school Gromnir would request so that we can spam the heck out of the baddies with empowered and maximized disintegrations. you thinks clerics and paladins is the best undead killers in d&d? bah. given turn resistances and new divine and sunlight protection feats for undead, a red wizard mage who overkill specializes in transmutation is possibly the most efficient killer o' undead we can come up with. yeah, Gromnir would prefer a generalist as an npc... but maybe the red wizard angle were considered vital. in any event, while we always hear folks talk 'bout necromancers as being super-groovy-keen, Gromnir would choose a transmuter any day o' the week to watch our back if we knows we gotta confront powerful undead. HA! Good Fun!

okku were integral to plot for first 1/3 of game. gann were if not integral, then highly integrated into plot o' the sunken city... which were a goodly portion o' game. dove were similarly woven into fabric of the post academy motb story. Founder/safiya IS integral... but sadly it were the safiya aspect that were 'least compelling. no "excuse" for any of the jnpc's to be underdeveloped and predictable. HA! Good Fun!

Curious, is anyone else in KOTOR 2 in the same category? Or is it just Kreia? I ask because Kreia was integral to the plot of KOTOR 2, whereas in MOTB all the companions are optional. multiple kotor 2 jnpcs is integral to the plot. that were one of the complaints we seen from folks at codex: why do i have to bring _____ with me? so why were kreia different? how 'bout some o' the ps:t jnpcs? heck, ravel were chrisA's bestest npc ever... and she weren't even a party npc. integral to plot is an advantage, but is a cop out nevertheless. HA! Good Fun!

finished. ... am gonna break our observations into segments... mostly 'cause we don't have time for a single long review. the jnpcs weren't near as compelling for Gromnir as others here seem to find 'em, but we liked the story overall (so don't thinks we is slamming motb based on this initial brief reflection re:jnpcs.) gann womanized 'cause he had abandonment issues (*groan*) and dove were seeing world black and white just likes her eyes made things seem... as passionless as the god she had once been devoted to. yeah, the wall is a great injustice and you led a crusade to topple, but there were no convert's fire and passion from dove. disappointed. anything else from those two? red wizard's most compelling aspect were the whole Founder shtick, but she had little more personality than did kaji. she were just kinda... there. okku were kewl, but he didin't exactly grow or become more than he seemed. were a big and loyal talking bear... made a promise to help stop spirit eater curse and you had his devotion just so long as you continued to be seemingly fighting the hunger and searching for cure. kreia, as flawed as she were, kicked the snot out of all of the motb jnpcs. kreia were complex and had depth. sure, am betting that somebody could give a pretty good one sentence distillation o' kreia, but such a synopsis would not have been able to describe her character accurately. you knew from start that there were more to kreia... one motivation to keeps playing kotor2 were to find out what exactly the "more" were. dove and gann? 20 minutes after we meet 'em we knows pretty much what made 'em tick... and the predictable discovery weren't worth the 20 minute wait. now we does thinks that the gameplay aspect o' character interactions were handled well in motb. not only were social skills useful and character generation choices meaningful, the feat awards for continued dedication to jnpcs did keeps Gromnir interested in those jnpcs. that being said, our interest were pretty mercenary and practical: boost our influence and gets a new goodie. thankfully those rewards were not available w/o some considerable interaction, so even though we weren't a huge fan o' how the jnpcs were written, we admits that we were adequately encouraged to delve due in large part to the rewards that had direct gameplay effect. 1 conversation with the eyeless kotor2 freak whose dialogue were a Frankenstein amalgam of a thousand forgotten fortune cookie phrases, and we need never have to deal with her again... 'least not from a pure gameplay pragmatic pov. contrast with dove in motb. how long it take to get to devoted status and gets ultimate menagerie upgrade? more than a few gameplay hours. good reward for time/effort spent on conversations and a nice carrot for those who bother to boost social skills. each o' the motb npcs had a neat gimmick. a good gimmick can go a long way. bio's greatest jnpc success came from gimmicks. bg1 minsc? had a couple o' catch phrases and a rodent. hk-47? 1-trick pony with the meat bag bit. maybe obsidian got wise and followed suit... discovered that the gimmick is more important than the character? dunno... hope that isn't the case. didn't go the one-o'-many route, so got no feedback. ... dunno. from all the positive stuff we heard from boardies hereabouts, we were expecting something impressive from the jnpcs... but we simply never saw anything unusual from 'em. sure, their gimmicks were not so standard and stock, but the characters themselves were... predictable. somewhat disappointed with jnpcs... but not with the game. will spew forth more vitriol and praise later. HA! Good Fun!

this happened to Gromnir in nwn2, but it only happened in one place. after one of those qara battles outside the pub in nwn city we would get a similar overflow issue. however, were only an issue on that particular map... went elsewhere and no overflow. even so, that map were forever screwed. HA! Good Fun!

"This is kinda my point." still not seeing the point... or maybe you is missing ours. yeah, clearly once you have 0 or no craving eternal rest is "best", but from a practical standpoint, is only best 'cause it saves you some time. use suppress a handful o' times and your craving is minimized, and from that point you gets a net gain with rest/supress. sit somewheres with okku and some spirits and play around with suppress. even if your crave is high it only takes a couple o' suppressions to reduce to a point where you is getting a net gain... and as you can sleep as often as you wish... again, all you is really saving yourself is some time. suppress is best for getting craving down. eternal rest is best for keeping spirit meter up. btw, if you didn't bother to read the descriptor for eternal rest when it became available, we gots little sympathy for you... though given how few folks seems to be using eternal rest you does not appear to be alone. maybe obsidian shoulda' assumed that players gots a short attention span and would not read full descriptions of all new feats acquired. is a lesson they should be fully aware of by now. HA! Good Fun!