Gromnir

lulz. ok, yeah. i always forget about that abortion of a game. @grominir: see above sentence. also, please answer my question...and don't do so by asking a question yourself. also, i'm not trying be clever and the intended irony isn't what i'm commenting on. rather that your posts read like the attempts of a third-rate Joyce fan at best. clarify your specific question. already responded to the superior troika writing nonsense suggestion you is curious as to where we has seen good writing in games... crpgs specific maybe? ps:t were very good and very bad. ravel, as an example, were one o' the best developed crpg characters we can recollect... no doubt that is why chrisA keeps using aspect o' her in every game... kreia and seer and cat lady from iwd2, etc. ps:t dialogues were often terrible with the philosophical introspection that came off as campy., although the planescape setting made easier to swallow. nwn actually had some bright spots... charwood is often overlooked. kotor and some excellent characters, and the intentional mirroring o' the original star wars movies was a clever approach that seems obvious only in retrospect. kotor 2 were typical o' an obsidian project with some good stuff and some real terrible... that blind sith character? who wrote her dialogues? felt bad for kelly hu having to read that dreck. iwd were actually 'bout as good as it gets as far as fantasy plot is concerned. fantasy plot is always hokum, but at least you gots some genuine heroic sacrifice thrown into the mix. along those lines, me deserves some credit for creating genuine heroic sacrifice and making meaningful with contemporaneous gameplay sacrifice. me, much like kotor, had some ok character development... and some real terrible character development. already mentioned that we liked some aspects o' bloodlines. bg2 had a good villain that were underdeveloped... the macbeth allusions and foreshadowing were excellent, but lack o' irenicus focus results in a villain that ends up feeling not much different than the typical cliche fantasy baddie. what a shame. more? there is good crpg writing out there, but hardly any of it came from troika. black isle's original fallouts had intriguing quests... actual craftsmanship o' writing were suspect. to blast fo3 for writing... then to hazily recollect the glorious original fallouts seems more than a bit unfair, no? HA! Good Fun!

not sure i follow you...which is to say i'm not sure you're amazed for the right reason. i think maybe you're amazed because you lack an understanding of where peoples' complaints are coming from. just out of curiousity, what games do you prefer? as one who deems himself a connoisseur of the written word (though, ironically, your posting style couldn't be more contrived) you can't tell me you think the writing and dialogue of Fallout 3 is on par with anything Troika has done. i mean, you can...but i'd just have to giggle. so you honest suggest that toee writing were better than fo3? is an opinion and you are entitled to yours, but am gonna be more than a little surprised to see you support and identify examples o' superior writing in toee. heck, am not able to honest think of writing in arcanum that were worthy o' note. the vampire game had a few bright spots as far as writing were concerned, but that were the only troika game that had any positive writing. troika has terrible writing and poor balance and stoopid, pointless features and they gets a pass... but betheda? look to prome' post above... writing and combat weren't important to arcanum... how can Gromnir judge arcanum's merits based on writing and combat mechanics/balance? but fo3... sheesh. btw, is hardly clever that you caught the intended irony. "The fact the ideas were never implemented doesnt make FO3's good." ... you should be prevented from ever using the word "logic" in a post... evar. HA! Good Fun!

Literacy. I spent 20 times more, and uncountable times happier time with Bloodlines than i did with Fallout 3. so, obsidian ain't in this biz to make money, but instead is attempting to educate a new generation o' gamers... or somesuch nonsense. and am glad that you enjoyed bloodlines. am always a little amazed that the troika fans who is so demanding o' bethesda are so forgiving o' troika... but if you enjoyed, then more power to you. as for prome's response... ignoring sales not make those sales numbers disappear. obsidian is in the Business of making games. or is you like ziggy-- hopeful that fo becomes incorporated into rif: http://www.rif.org/ and again, say you like espoused black isle ideas for vb completely ignores that those ideas were never implemented. oh, and don't be such a narcissist... am getting to the other fallout zealots in due course. HA! Good Fun! ps 'cause ziggy asked... http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic...ighlight=#23414

This is also one of the standard easy escapes a la Codex/NMA. Of course Van Buren would be perfect.. in your mind. It was never made. It might have been crappier than Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel or it might have been the greatest game ever made, we will never know. My guess would be the former, otherwise it might have actually gotten made. But it's very convenient to take an unmade game as an example of the perfect game. Thats wonderful logic. Or a lack therefore of. And I'm sure Interplay's legendary mismanagement had nothing to do with it. And dont act like I'm saying Van Buren would have been hot ****. Its not like Dark Alliance and CoN turned out to be good. It plot and ideas were definitely more intriguing than FO3's retarded water plot though. you gots very convenient discrimination... story and combat weren't the important aspects o' arcanum, but plot woulda' made a real difference with fo3? btw, sci-fi/fantasy plots is almost always hokum... and it not matter one bit. the plot o' the original fo games were pretty ridiculous if you is being honest. also, please review bri's nma post above. in spite o' betehesda's criminal mishandling o' the franchise (*chuckle*), they sold a whole bunch o' units. those folks that want a return of faithfulness to the original franchise is ignoring the fact that bethesda's approach, while sacrilegious and profane, were more commercial viable than the original fo games. what is motivation for obsidian to return to 'ye goode olde days o' fallout? love o' the game? temporary insanity? in spite o' the criticisms o' fo3, it were a very successful game. from a practical pov what argument would you give, in light of bri's post 'bout fo commercial success linked above, to reject bethesda approach and instead embrace the goode olde days o' the fallout franchise? btw, you ain't genuine arguing comparisons of an unmade game to a completed one, is you? as noted earlier, pretty much every troika game sounded great... right up until you actually loaded on hard drive. big ideas count for squat if they ain't implemented well. actually, the grand ideas is often tougher to implement than more conservative goals-- the more grandiose the ideas, the less likely you is gonna successful implement. am not thinking that you understand what is logic if you is arguing the superiority o' an unmade game... can you maybe put into a formal syllogism, 'cause we don't see the logic you is using. "assume that all of the announced features announced by black isle regarding van buren were completely and successfully implemented." is part o' your logic? okie dokie. HA! Good Fun!

I disagree. It's much hard to write an okay 70k story than a good 10k one. I'd bet that it takes more effort and resources to create 7 unique but only decent animations than 2 unique and very good animations. I

is always a problem with unwieldy. our very limited experience with design o' pnp rules taught us real quick that is almost always better to ere on side o' simplicity: the more complex a system, the more things can go wrong. 'course, the one advantage a crpg gots over a pnp rule system is the near instantaneous number crunching... is a level o' complexity in a crpg that just ain't possible in a pnp game... can has all kinds o' variables being accounted for in a crpg that simply wouldn't be possible in a pnp rule system... *shrug* when in doubt... simple. HA! Good Fun!

fast progression ain't a bad thing... but frequently it leads to a differnt sorta tyranny o' choice. you know, is loads o' folks that loathe d&d 3e rules, but it were an okie dokie system... at least initially. sure, harm were busted, and the ranger were comic front-loaded, but many o' 3e's most glaring flaws were fixable... right up til you hits 'bout level 12. problem became more pronounced with the addition o' new prestige classes and feats, but the problem were inherent in system from day 1. get past level 12 and a well-prepared party can make a mockery o' crs. past level 12, the dice pretty much become superfluous as outcomes is largely predetermined. why is there a level 12 problem with 3e d&d? is partly a problem o' choice. hit a critical mass o' mathematics and choices resulting in a game impossible to balance-- add more options and you create more opportunities to break the rules. create a system with lots o' levels and loads o' choices and you is pretty much accepting from start that balance will not be achievable. with every splat book released, d&d 3e became more broken... simply 'cause o' more choices. loads o' levels and options invariably makes a game tougher to balance. as for appropriate perks n' such... is not fo tradition, but why not give value to perks? you gets perks pretty quick in fo3, so why not give perks values/costs? is there anyone willing to argue that all perks is created equal? no? so has perks cost between 1 and 3 points. 3-point perks shouldn't be near 3x as good as 1-point perks, but for folks that wanna gets the best perks, let 'em pay for 'em. get 1 perk point per level and a bonus perk point every third level. whatever. details is up to the developers, but m thinking that adding another level o' sophistication to the character development system wouldn't scare folks away... 'specially if such a system were able to more adequate address the unbalanced perk problems. is tough for developers to come up with kewl perks that ain't broken. hypothetical: put an "insta-kill" perk in game... perk allows character to insta-kill any enemy he/she hits in combat. am betting that more than 80% o' people playing game would try to attain the uber perk, even though such a perk would obvious ruin the game. the "kewlest" perks is often the most unbalanced... we don't envy the developers who tries to make a balanced game and satisfy the folks who want kewl/powerful stuff. in any event, am thinking that fo would benefit from a modification o' the perk system... a modification that embraces the reality that not all perks is created equal. HA! Good Fun!

is that true? game development is, in theory, a zero sum endeavor. got limited number o' man hours to use in development, and the man hours ain't interchangeable neither. create 20 extra dialogue options in a game so that folks that took the Ceramics skill feel better 'bout the choice... makes an ashtray for father's day and gets the "ulterior motive" feat perhaps. always gotta ask: what else coulda' you done with that time and those man hour resources? choice, like everything else in game development, has got costs. some o' those costs is obvious, but others is less so. HA! Good Fun!

"Both were profitable." *sigh* honestly, does we gotta go down this road again? truth to tell, Gromnir never cared 'nuff to see how well arcanum did, but while ps:t eventually made a profit, it were a business failure. repost... again. http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic...ighlight=#23414 is amusing that briareus' observations kill the ps:t business success myth equal well as the fo myth. ps:t didn't get into black until considerable time following initial release... was selling as a dual release with soul calibur at the time? place money in a savings account will result in a profit too, no? why not put your investment dollars in a nice solid mutual fund, eh? hopeful we don't have to go down this road... again. can't we all just accept that ps:t were an unfortunate business failure and move on to other issues that actually has valid points o' opposition? HA! Good Fun!

for you kids who want strawman defined... *shrug* is understandable that you would be unaware that Gromnir has criticized chrisA as much as we has complimented. lugubrious navel gazing worked in ps:t, but is a young writer's fetish that he ain't seemed to grow out of as yet. however, you get +15 points for the "horribly pretentious" observation. oh sure, it not diminish the validity o' our point, but in truth we is a bit o' a snob on such matters as writing. "Yes, the writing isnt great" understatement for effect? no? arcanum writing were worse than horrible... it were forgettable. "The thing is, why are comparing Arcanum to Fallout 3? I had fun with Arcanum, but I enjoyed Fallout 3 more. Arcanum is like one of the inhabitants of the Isle of Lost toys in Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. Yeah, you feel sorry for it, but not enough people wanted it. " "name another game that..." arcanum as an example o' anything other than unfulfilled promise? ask why we is comparing? 'cause some folks can't let arcanum or troika rest in peace. got folks re imagining the exploits o' troika and the good ship arcanum as some bold and romantic attempt to sail beyond the edge o' the map. tim cain saw the "here there be dragons" warning and laughed... sailed forward to challenge all those crpg conventions and preconceptions with nothing but courage (and buckets full of sierra's money). what a crock. arcanum were grand and memorable in nothing save for the chasm between its lofty goals and the banal reality. HA! Good Fun!

"The storytelling is refreshing," refreshing? what does that mean? like a fresca maybe? for folks that has become tired with being railroaded down a single story path, am seeing how arcanum might be "refreshing"... maybe. HA! Good Fun!

"I vaguely remember Virgil, but I don't recall the other NPCs very well." is not a particularly positive observation when speaking of a crpg, no? story is told by, of and through character. if you can't recall the characters... lots o' seemingly pointless choices in arcanum. Gromnir were genuine looking forward to the setting, but somehow troika managed to gets all the mistakes from the fallouts... and distill 'em. writing and dialogue in fallouts were often... lacking. such dialogue and writing were Horrible in arcanum. balance were laughable in fallout, but it were criminal in arcanum. etc. the developers came up with a kewl world and created lots o' character development options... then they stopped, or got distracted. there were lots to do in arcanum (good thing) but the stuff to do were almost universal uninspired and we never found a good reason to keeps trying to grind through such tedious material. too bad. "And why are you adding o's and extras s's onto things. It makes you points more annoying to read. " really? "you are so from the internets it hurts." am not certain what that means, but am pretty confident that it not lessen the validity o' our observation 'bout fo1 and fo2 humor. keeps trying though. as for mods... is different from game to game, but clearly your experience is... limited. http://www.pocketplane.net/mambo/ is hardly representative of all the mods available for the ie games neither. arcanum, because it sucked, had understandably fewer technically sophisticated fans who were willing to try and fix a broken game-- fewer mods. regardless, comparing games based on their fan made improvements is folly. am willing to applaud a game for it capacity to be modded and the ease with which it can be modded, but to compare strength of writing or balance or options based on fan made content is so obviously flawed that it really ain't worth further argument. hell, that may be one o' the few points that josh and Gromnir has agreed 'pon in the past. HA! Good Fun!

"Right because the only good patches are official patches." never said that. did observe that it is pretty tough to judge game base on fan content, no? am sure you will see the problems o' such a silly approach if you considers. maybe talks with the bg community o' modders and try to figure out what game they is actually talking 'bout when they says they likes bg. Ajantis is the Best npc evar... if you gots v.5 o' the super secret mod pack by the Narflings 6 Group. huh? and yeah, the world o' arcanum were interesting... on paper. arcanum were far more interesting before you actually played the game. the world were relative unique and it were big. sadly, when actually played, all those little details didn't add up... game were less than the sum o' its parts 'cause it were put together so poorly. is no different than all the pointless and inane dialogue choices they tried to force into toee. sure, you gots a dozen different dialogue options that would change based on your character development choices, but all the choices led to same place: dullsville. offering choices just so that you can say you provided choices is bad design. HA! Good Fun!

is more than a few recipes in which we utilize mushrooms (we makes a mean bigos), but the idea o' mushrooms seems to offend-- just can't get around the fungi aspect. fermented potables (we don't drink alcohol, but we does cook with it frequent) and cheeses is something we enjoy much in our food, but we gots a unreasoned prejudice 'gainst fungi... typically use only when cooking for others... impress the ladies. HA! Good Fun!

you must be from the internets. I'm trying to understand if he actually played Arcanum with the content patches and why he think story and combat was the point of the game. Not to mention what the **** was going with this top 5 characters thing. a crpg where combat AND story is incidental? is that what you are suggesting? character development options not count for anything if is so unbalanced or pointless as is not matter how you develop. multiple paths not mean squat if the multiple paths not lead anywhere interesting. and ambition... HA! ambition is not inherent good or bad. applaud troika ambition if it makes you feel better. however, their failure and our boredom were not in anyway diminished by a sublimated recognition o' troikan unfulfilled ambitions. ... am not knowing what content patches you reference or how such is relevant. Gromnir played arcanum. when game were initial unplayable 'cause o' technical problems we waited for patch... then game were unplayable 'cause iArcanum characters and combat weren't very interesting. is you referencing geekling fan-based patches that has been released over the years? lord knows how you rate a game based on such stuff... 'less that were the point o' the game (e.g. nwn). HA! Good Fun! ps before this thread spins complete off-track, am gonna repeat 2 points: 1) Fallout 1 & 2 were FULL o' camp humor. 2) arcanum as an example o' gaming goodness? HA!

yes, very funny... but it still not work. berreto grasso would maybe be fat cap... and in any event, there is no "porta" in Italian, right... is synonymous with Puerto? is a masculine noun. bella/bello = beautiful... likes from belladonna. so you get Porto Bello. beautiful door? almost never see portobello... is typical portabella or portabello. ... our latin ain't helping at all... fortis is door and bellus probable sounds right, but we is talking 'bout a thing rather than a person... pulcher? fortis pulcher? doesn't look right. what is we doing wrong. tell you what, just assume we said porcini 'stead o' portabello... which oddly 'nuff gets us closer to fat cap than did porto bello. porcino is like porcine, right? oh well. HA! Good Fun!

"EXACTLY! i don't get why the FO3'pologists keep ragging on FO2 as if that's the "be all, end all" of the debate. imo, Bethesda took the theme of the 50's influence way too far, made it corny (re: funny in a bad way) and made it their primary focus. i know Gizmo's brought this up...but in both FO1 & 2 those references weren't constantly in your face. things were more focused on how people had been evolving on the outside instead of "get ready kids, here's another wacky 50's reference/joke!"" if you not get that fo1 and fo2 had loads o' camp value humor, then we played a different game. the whole setting were dark and gritty... and funny. even the over-the-top death animations were funny. fo weren't post apocolyptic so much as it were a tounge-in-cheek recreation o' the 1950s pulp sci-fi mag and b-movie imaginings o' the post apocolyptic landscape. if the engine coulda handled, we got no doubt that they woulda' got a 50' chick in a bikini into fallout. also, arcanum were a waste o' hd space from start to finish. had loads o' potential (like most troika games,) but characters and plot were poorly developed and the combat were unbalanced an mindnumbing tedious. list your five favorite characters from a crpg... then list favorite ten or even favorite 15. arcanum, for all the characters in the game, had no genuine meorable characters. sure, some troika apologist will mentions virgil as cracking their personal top 10, but for honest folks there just weren't much character in the arcanum characters... and without character you not gonna have a story worth mentioning. turn our back for five minutes... HA! Good Fun!

one of my favorite side dishes is sauteed ****ake mushrooms and shallots in a cream sauce. IMO, portabella/o mushrooms aren't fancy, btw, they are simply large crimini mushrooms, but they taste pretty good in general. morels would be fancy. taks taks is correct that the portabello/a is simply a brown crimini that gets bigger... but the Name is fancy. cap or button not sound kewl at all. am not sure 'bout the name thing though. have seen it portabello and portabella, but wouldn't it have to be portobello? not that it matters. HA! Good Fun!

Lettuce? If I were going to impress a girl, I wouldn't buy lettuce. Butternut squash, avocados, English cucumbers, those bags of mini-oranges, grapes, and bottles of pineapple juice would all be more interesting than lettuce. am agreeing that lettuce is not the best veggie to impress women-- go with shallots or the fancy mushrooms (e.g. ****ake, portabello, etc.). most every woman knows what a shallot is, but we suspect that few has ever actually prepared a dish calling for shallots. personally, Gromnir ain't a mushroom fan, but some folks love fungi and stuff likes ****ake seems to grant instant legitimacy to a dish. is more obscure veggies out there, but am finding that shallots and mushrooms has more than adequate kewl value. if you must use lettuce, avoid iceberg. the oak leaf variety o' loose leaf is an ok choice... am rarely using romaine save for caesar salads. now, as for fruit... btw, a man with goodly cooking skills can be a handicap rather than a boon. most women is insecure, and if you cooks marked better than she does... HA! Good Fun!

*scratches noggin* where does you get the notion that we is worked up 'bout anything? ... and am still confused as to whether you is trying to be funny with the attempted irony. given your seeming paranoia in this thread and recognizing your typical anti-american vitriol... *shrug* you spouted bs that you can't back up with any kinda evidence. Gromnir ain't the one who called you on your fabrication, but we does enjoy watching you struggle... but mild amusement is 'bout as far as we go on this. HA! Good Fun!

Right, that's all going on the list. Pipes Stormtroopers Diamonds Crates Dogs Dinosaurs Can anyone suggest how to start the conversation, ideally using all these elements? in bar conversations, is not what you say, but how you say it. no doubt there is folks who met their future wife or husband at a bar, but Gromnir ain't personally met somebody with such a story. if you look the part, and sound confident, chances are it not matter what is elements o' the conversation. Gromnir's most recent successful pick-up line: "You are tall." ... brilliant, eh? Gromnir is in good physical shape, we got prominent law school class ring, and we dress well (when the situation demands). am not gonna even try to suggest that our brilliant conversational skills won the young lady over during an hour o' useless bar chit-chat. we look and act the part, and if the lady is likewise looking for companionship things turn out well with some frequency. actual elements o' conversation is hardly worth mentioning. keep in mind that some women in bars is not there to be won. some women genuine go to bars to socialize with friends, or 'cause they simply not wanna be alone on a Friday/Saturday night. Gromnir not waste efforts on such as the likelihood o' favorable resolution is remote. a bar is a terrible place to begin a relationship, so why try? if you ain't getting right signals after 10 minutes, move on to next option. cliff notes version... go to the bar with realistic expectations and straightforward goals. choose targets well, and be willing to move onto next option without remorse and with little hesitation. adopt semblance of confidence and success. be well-mannered and avoid nervous laughter... and some o' you needs to become more attractive. *shrug* is no tricks or perfect conversation... is all 'bout target selection and image. btw, Gromnir typically loathes the bar scene, but... HA! Good Fun!

if CDC or WHO had blamed US for lack o' diligence regarding swine flu it would not be some obscure footnote that were impossible to retrieve w/o considerable blood, sweat and tears. sometimes the last refuge o' the beaten is to avoid the topic and instead identify a perceived (real or imagined) shortcoming in the accuser. taking hard? not really... but Gromnir am alternatively honest enough AND petty enough to admit we enjoys watching you twist. btw, the smart play is simply to ignore. the more you reply, the less validity your argument 'bout effort seems to got. luckily Gromnir not post too often no more, so chances are your bs gets forgotten pretty darn fast if you simply hide in the cellar until storm passes. only bad part is that we will probably bring up 6 months or a year from now when next we see you spew some unsupportable crap. ah well, am gonna get back to work... needs to make a few adjustments to our living trust before it is too late. HA! Good Fun!

krez can dig up all kinds o' conflicting info, but he can't produce the CDC quote wherein they take responsibility for not acting fast enough? color us unconvinced... 'course, given enough time, somebody in cdc will eventually say something that sounds vaguely apologetic... so just keeps waiting/stalling and eventually you will gets vindicated, eh? WHO threw US under the bus, and US admits fault? fine., but we wanna see evidence... 'cause coming from krez, w/o no supporting cite, makes pretty tough to swallow. Gromnir is a big fan o' Didymus... got Carravaggio print on our wall. HA! Good Fun!

as vegetation were mentioned, am observing that doomsayers and purveyors o' fear sprout likes weeds whenever a crisis dujour emerges. is understandable if regrettable. however, is somewhat contemptible for the peddlers o' panic to use the swine flu to promote some alternative agenda... am not a particular devout Catholic, but Gromnir is a friend o' Fr. Liam, the pastor at St. Mel's church in Fair Oaks, CA... so we gets suckered into volunteering our time at the church and school. school is shut down 'cause o' the swine flu cases. got friends who teach at St. Mel's. is people we know who is being genuine affected by current flu concerns. *shrug* is cause for concern, but not alarm. HA! Good Fun!

The US has already admitted it acted too slowly to the outbreak, and the WHO has voiced similar concerns. Really? Do you have a link for that, please? don't need a link or proof. it is a Given that the vast majority o' the world's tragedies in the post WWII era is the result o' American incompetence or greed. some folks start with the assumption that the US flubbed the swine flu thing and then work backwards... look for proof after the fact. why you gotta rock the boat? Gromnir is old fashioned-- we blame the Pope for all the world's ills. not any more valid than American hate, but at least our stoopidity gots pedigree and tradition. n00bs. HA! Good Fun! Way to completely misinterpret my post and have a bit of a paranoid rant while you're at it. are you going for irony? HA! Good Fun!