Gromnir

am equal perplexed by the seeming increase in weapon and armour size over the past few years. am not too bothered though. might as well complain that women armour looks like it were designed by victoria secret, chhainmail has always been able to lift and separate when it is worn by women... and having plate with special b00b modifications is nothing new either. you know how you can tell man from woman when they is wearing armour such as chain or plate? the women is typical shorter. on second though, am thinking that Gromnir is bothered. am recalling when we could sneer at japanese crpgs and their ridiculous weapons and armour. voluptuous armoured elf chicks, in high heels, wielding swords that appears to weigh as much as small car. western games is fast approaching similar silliness. for chrissakes, don't take away from us the chance to mock asian games. HA! Good Fun!

you folks is putzes. stated influences o' da: bsg... ancient evil rising/returning? check. game o' thrones... ancient evil rising/returning? check how 'bout lotr? check. thomas covenant books? check. how 'bout something newer... like mazlan book of the fallen? crap, that gots a return o' ancient evil too. above stuff is all so similar, right? *snort* whatever flaws DA is gonna be suffering from, mere fact that you gotta combat ancient evil/threat is NOT gonna be a genuine issue worth noting. just 'cause you post on a silly message board not mean you gotta go all numb from the neck up and start repeating complaints others is making. btw, the real reason da will fail is 'cause o' the Origins is more noise than substance. is no wonder recent release material is focusing on blood and sex. HA! Good Fun! ps somebody should tell the biowarians that you cannot has your ancient evils periodically waking from "eternal" slumber.

am not understanding all the vo complaints. nothing great, but nothing terrible. the french girl were a bit lacking... but with only a single line is tough to judge. the romance seemed... terrible, but that were expected. already debated the context aspect over at codex. Gromnir hates bio romance, and getting no more than the sex-me-up speech from the harlot character were gonna make it dreadful difficult to impress us with 30 seconds o' screen time. big shock that the book delivery = snogging were fail for Gromnir? is tough to tell what were going on with the combat. am a guy who typically makes use o' pause when available. the DA demo were a bit too frenetic for us. interface looked doable. some hokey/clumsy dialogue that were 'posed to give us a glimpse o' mature consequences? *shrug* too little, but not enough to judge. summary/reflect... velvetta-class cheese from the sex and some dialogue that were a bit awkward, plus combat that were occurring too quick for us to honest tell how characters were being controlled... coulda' done w/o the blood splatter and the salesmanship, but the demo weren't near as terrible as some suggested. HA! Good Fun!

Hi Josh! I have a question: What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? *sigh* is that an African swallow or a European swallow? the fact that Gromnir recognizes is personally shameful. HA! Good Fun!

Whatever would we do without your exuberant enthusiasm? am not certain, but am guessing that a handful o' you would be locked in a serious debate 'bout how transporter technology is plausible/implausible. HA! Good Fun!

am wanting a star trek crpg 'bout as much as we is looking forward to a serious case of jock itch. ... guy in the red shirt dies... can we all go home now? HA! Good Fun!

if that were what wrath were saying, then am doubtful you would see and disagreement... save from a few serious graphics snobs. and once again let us please keep in mind that Gromnir ain't suggested that he thinks aod will suck... am asking why folks like wrath is sooooo enthusiastic. graphics? wrath keeps trying to convince us that graphics is stellar. HA! writing? as aristes points out, the Fantabulous examples wrath came up with were pretty damned pedestrian. is tough to judge game writing based on a couple o' snippets lifted w/o context, so is not as if game is doomed 'cause o' wrath examples, but is no reason to applaud nether. combat? wrath notes that a combat demo is forthcoming, so is tough to be excited as yet. etc. the only reason we can figure that people is current enthusiastic 'bout the game is based on fact that vd claims he is gonna do better than everybody else... which is exact the same kinda promise every developer makes. wrath got faith. faith is a wonderful thing. good for wrath. the thing is that it is tough to argue when all you got is faith. HA! Good Fun!

come now. is a terrible argument. particularly as you is simply throwing Gromnir qualifier back at him. wrath is talking 'bout artistic value within the medium and is using industry-wide as measure. is not suggesting that old skool 2d looks kewl compared to 3d. is saying that the low budget 3d efforts o' iron tower exceeds any mainstream games he can care to name. is you honest defending? really? can Gromnir conceive o' a 3d game that is low budget but blows EVERY other mainstream effort out of the water? sure we can... as a hypothetical. unfortunate we ain' t talking hypo are we cg? we got aod screenies. you honestly think that aod holds up compared to every mainstream game insofar as graphics is concerned? HA! Good Fun!

"Those graphics look totally playable to me." pretty much any graphics is playable if the gameplay is engaging. am personally a fan of much of the old 2d stuff... 'course aod screenies not got advantage o' some o' the kewl hand-painted 2d stuff from past. is just ugly 3d. *shrug* graphics of aod is ugly but not unplayable. however, when folks claim that no mainstream game gots better graphics than what we has seen from aod... is silly. is silly and unnecessary. HA! Good Fun!

is two snippets, taken out o' context... didn't even read second one after the "supernatural aura" bit. yeah, am sure that the guys at iowa and irvine is all envious. 'course you is also the guy who ain't seen mainstream game graphics you likes better than aod, so is some questions regarding your honesty/taste/sanity. HA! Good Fun!

several outcomes does not preclude critical path(s). is the easiest thing in the world to create multiple outcomes as long as nothing follows. kinda undercuts the meaningful aspect. again, is bifurcation OR meaningful alteration... otherwise you end up with toee nonsense where developers simply tries to make sure that every skill gets useful outcomes... mess. which brings us back to our original criticism. a sp role-play game w/o compelling story elements taht gives player a reason to play becomes real dull real fast. "These are things that, to get right, require some pretty expensive skill-sets." yeah? so? again, am not suggesting that a good game NEEDS top-shelf graphics, but when a defender o' aod makes following observation... "I can't really think of another mainstream game whose graphics I prefer" again, nowhere does Gromnir suggest need of top-shelf graphics. am the guy who still plays panzer general from time to time. even so, the defenders o' the faith is getting wacky with how far they is going to try and defend aod if they compares graphics to other mainstream games that does have big budgets. HA! Good Fun!

"You have multiple ways of advancing through the main story, not just insular side quests, I'm not even sure AOD has insular side quests" would be kinda tragic if were no insular side quests, 'cause we grantee that not every aod quest resolution results in bifurcation or Meaningful alteration o' critical path. Gromnir read the choice and consequences stuff too, and we thinks you is being equal willful blind 'bout meaningful consequences in aod as you is 'bout graphics... again using some lesser measure or standard. "I can't really think of another mainstream game whose graphics I prefer" you see, this is the kinda thing where folks in thread who may wanna genuine agree with you is gonna have eye-roll reaction... dismiss you rather than take serious. HA! Good Fun!

am not sure what points you is trying to make. how many other developers has given examples o' how quest has multiple resolutions? heck, Gromnir can name quests in motb that gots five or six possible resolutions... and as mentioned earlier, many o' the toee early quests had multiple resolutions... is just that they all were suckage... and as Gromnir has noted many times, multiple resolution o' side quest can has loads o' options, 'cause the consequences are, in fact, insular. and again, ea audience has 0 relevance to why you have faith in iron tower. "And did you even see the screenshot I posted, or the other links?" yes. no offense, but you is being delusional if you thinks you is showing swell graphics with linky. swell for an indie developer with low budget? sure, but is that the measure? HA! Good Fun!

am positive that some folks will like simply 'cause they convinced self ahead of time that game were good. am certain that some other folks will claim to like even if they gots reservations. is more than a couple o' games that has been released where we seen the core boardies claim success even if virtual all other peoples claim fail. spend dozens o' hours on a game board and some folks is gonna get emotionally invested... no surprise. the thing is, if some folks is already convincing selves that aod is having keen graphics, then we suspect that they is invested beyond reasoning. convince Gromnir that graphics is unimportant? yeah, we get that... but argue that aod looks kewl? HA! Good Fun!

is as if you complete ignore the ea point after recognizing that many developers pay lip service to choice and consequence... you maybe not realize that you pretty much prove our point 'bout Faith. is not that iron tower is promising anything different than a half dozen other developers, is simply that in spite of little experience and questionable production values you BELIEVE that vd will actually produce meaningful choice and consequence. you don't believe that ea could make a "proper" crpg, in spite of fact that they got resources and experience. you do believe in iron tower in spite o' their paltry resume and limited resources. fine. you got Faith... but don't act surprised 'cause Gromnir don't. convince us maybe that angels exist 'cause you believe in 'em? am not gonna deny your faith, but don't act surprised 'cause we needs more than your faith that iron tower will do more than "pay lip service" and that it somehow works in context o' a story-driven game... which is something we sees getting glossed over more frequent than not. does vd have a nwn/nwn2 mod that we can see how his notions o' choice and consequences work in context o' a story driven game? would be curious to see. HA! Good Fun!

opinions 'bout writing and graphics aside, the following is where you and Gromnir is gonna suffer serious disconnect: "It's not that he's trying to make it just like Fallout, it's that he believes that providing choices and consequences is key in proper RPG design." if you or vd believe that there is such a thing as "proper RPG design," then we is gonna have a hard time communicating. am always bothered by folks who seems to has some notion of "proper" regarding crpg design. typically we disagree with such folks regarding their definition, but am more concerned by the straitjacket people is placing 'pon themselves if they embrace such a curiously reactionary pov. is not that vd is doing homage to fo... he just wanna do proper... the way fo did. HA! and the "choices and consequences" language has become a shibboleth for the hack developer. EVERY developer claims that choice is good in crpgs and that they wanna instill genuine consequences tied to such choices. am getting genuine tired o' hearing. is actually pretty darn easy to create choices and consequences in game... so long as such consequences don't result in much branching or halting o' critical path plot... and is still difficult if results in branching and breaking of individual side-quest stories. am waiting to hear some genuine novel approach that successful makes story concerns compatible with rpg notions o' choice & consequence. 'til then the choice and consequence shtick is simply noise we has heard from folks with far more impressive development resumes than vd. choice and consequences ain't the end that some developers seem to suggest. "The game is not ugly looking, as I said before, technically the graphics are very decent, and the art design is great." am thinking you would be better served by not fighting this point. makes you seem like you is trying too hard. would probably be more advantageous to simple admit that graphics is sub-par... 'cause otherwise you come off seeming a little delusional. as for the writing... am curious where you has seen examples o' good writing from iron tower relating to aod. honest. "I never said the game is guaranteed to be good. At most all I can say for now everything I've seen of it looks very good." and Gromnir once again asks what is the good? you ain't seen the combat demo but you is enthusiastic. am doubting you is honest suggesting that it is the graphics is sooper-groovy-keen and the writing, what there is of it, is pedestrian at best. other than the o' so familiar developer rhetoric 'bout choice and consequences, what is you genuinely seeing in aod that is "very good"... and developer enthusiasm not count in Gromnir's book. Gromnir is a big fan o' Doubting Thomas... am gonna wanna probe the wounds before we believe. ask self, if aod were a ea game, and it were ea making same promises as is vd, and showing similar graphics in released screenies, would you be enthusiastic or would you be slamming 'em? be honest. try to be honest. maybe what you actually has is Faith, 'cause we ain't yet seen something to make us a believer. HA! Good Fun!

send question back at you. given that all we gots is graphics screenies and some promises from developers... along with the choices and consequences stuff, how can you be so enthusiastic? graphics is hardly on-par with AAA games... if am using alphabet we probably end up down 'round L or M for graphics. is nothing particularly impressive 'bout announced rules. sounds like fantasy fallout... which is what arcanum tried. if arcanum teach us anything it is that falloutesque not necessarily result in a quality game. is pretty standard array of attributes we seen in previous fantasy games, and is not as if we ain't seen similar stats. rules ain't particularly innovative... which ain't a bad thing. so often developers get caught up in da rulez and forget that implementation is what genuine counts. combat demo ain't been released, so is tough to laud aod combat, no? so far we sees screens that makes it look like a hodgepodge amalgam 'tween d&d and fo... got similar interface to fo but we sees references to power attacks and critical hits and numerical values that look very d&d like. have read the iron throne choices and consequences thread. as we note already, it reminds us of the early portions o' toee. aod examples o' writing ain't on par with motb or kotor or a host o' other games... but we has seen so little that is tough to judge... so how can you judge good? regardless, no matter how many choices and opportunities you provide, player will become bored if you not makes for compelling story. crpgs is NOT rpgs in traditional pnp sense. pnp allows for cooperative and extemporaneous storytelling... but without fellow players you gots a big burden dumped on developer to be finding reason to keep player interested and so far it not sound like ado developers get that fact. again, question is returned... given what we got from iron tower, how can you be so enthusiastic 'bout an admitted ugly looking game that gots no genuine positive combat demo or writing samples? am not writing aod off as a lost cause, but am not getting the enthusiasm given the lack o' positives... other than the typical empty promises we has seen from a dozen more experienced and better funded developers over the decades. is you having some particular faith that vd is different than cain or sawyer or gaider or avellone? why? HA! Good Fun! side note: just so folks understand where we is coming from, Gromnir honest believes that genuine innovation and improvement in game industry will probable have to come from some indie developer. is ironic that game development has become so expensive that established developers has a hard time justifying innovation-- is too risky. so, keep in mind that Gromnir is always enthusiastic when we hears that some indie developer is trying to do... different. am simply not seeing anything all that great or different 'bout aod. have heard same promises 'bout Real choice from a half dozen other developers, so that is nothing new. maybe if aod weren't trying so hard to look/sound like fantasy fallout we might be more enthusiastic. is tough to be innovative when you is so obvious influenced by a previous game that had, as fergie described, "soul numbing" combat, terrible balance and mediocre writing.

your mistaken inference ain't our problem... and as we note before, what is the point? does make difference? and yeah, you been spending too much time at codex if you feel unnecessary need to correct w/o actual having a point. but to stay on-topic... aod actually looks like a marginal interesting fan-made game or low-budget indie project. am simply not seeing cause for over-the-top enthusiasm. "AoD *has* the potential to be one of the better RPG's released in the past few years." huh? if vol or vis said that they were making aod and over past number of years had displayed same dialogue and screenies as we see from iron tower, we would be heartily impressed. if we saw same dialogue and screenies released by obsidian or bioware as pre-release material for one of their games we would be somewhat dismissive. so how should we react to iron tower? is more like a vol mod or a genuine game from a legit developer? am s'posing that if game is priced similar to offerings from atari or ea we should probably judge relative to similarly priced commercial products. HA! Good Fun!

you gotta point 'bout low magic or is you just making an observation? arcanum is a steampunk fantasy game with fo pretensions made by fo developers. fail. aod is a low magic fantasy game with fo pretensions made by fo fans. optimistic? arcanum were crap. buggy. worse than the bugs were fact that it were dull. forgettable characters and mundane locations. there is a reason why arcanum npcs never shows up on any of those Best CRPG NPC lists you sees at virtual every game mag site. is 'cause arcanum story and characters were worse than bad... they were forgettable. tedious quests. bad writing. horrible balance. arcanum were far more interesting previous to actual playing, 'cause the novelty o' the setting and the Potential o' the game were its best features. never managed to live up to potential and kewl setting only held interest for first few hours of play. aod setting not near as kewl as arcanum, and perceived potential not quite seem to reach arcanum levels neither as the developers not got fallout pedigree. HA! Good Fun!

AoD *has* the potential to be one of the better RPG's released in the past few years. wrong word got stressed. aod has "potential"... which can be said of every game that ain't actually been released. am not sure what you has heard from aod developers that sounds marked different than the troika or obsidian or bio developers who promised real choices and consequences. sounds like many of same promises we has heard before... but with understandably less impressive production values. also, from what we has read, we thinks that developers is gonna be in for a rude awakening when they discover that having lots o' choices not result in spontaneous generation of compelling dialogue and engaging story. somebody want a low-magic fantasy game that kinda plays like fallout? arcanum were actually built by folks who worked on fallout... and it kinda sucked. am not expecting aod developers to do much better. HA! Good Fun!

Yes: me. Reading the dialogue in the "choices and consequences" thread, what I see is uninspired quest design and puke-inducing infodump dialogues. It's not as immersion breaking and just right down horrific as say Fallout 3's writing is (Not ALL of Fallout 3 is this bad... just a large part of it is). As long as tyhe writing is "good" I'll be happy. The huge amounts of Choice and Consequences, many many different ways to approach quest, NO FEDEX

"The Fallout setting is supposed to be pulpy, and that can be done with a more sensible style and wit than Fallout 2 managed." you know, the Faithful likes to mentions the influence o' german expressionist movies on fallout setting... but somehow the trashy and campy b-movie sci-fi stuff from the 50's seems to gets forgotten. "sensible" and "wit" may not be best ways to describe Them! or The Brain that wouldn't Die. Gromnir actual ain't a fan o' Monty-Python, but am gonna have to observe that there is more than a little tongue-in-cheek with fo setting that kinda goes beyond "wit" and "sensible." Camp can be witty, but it sure as heck ain't sensible. what genuine mystified Gromnir were the faithful complaining 'bout the Look o' fo3 stuff such as power armour and architecture n' such. honestly, fo3 does a much better job o' achieving the art deco look that were partial inspired by the german expressionists. goes to nma and codex and you will hears 'em talk 'bout Metropolis and Nosferatu. watch Metroplis and then ask if fo3 power armour or fo1 power armour would "fit" in a Fritz Lang film. am also thinking that road warrior had more than a little influence... and am not sure if "wit" and "sensible" is the best words to describe that franchise. regardless, Gromnir wouldn't mind if developers took selves less serious in recognition o' the setting's roots... Devil Girl from Mars and Reptillicus. 'course, we don't mind a more serious approach, but we would have to be woeful ignorant to suggest that silly humor is inappropriate in fo. HA! Good Fun!

I love Fallout 2's humor, sadly missing in Fallout 3. Now that Obsidian is doing Vegas, perhaps they can bring that humor back. dunno. lead developer has expressed some conflicting views on game humor... particularity the fo2 kinda humor. also, as you note, much o' the fo2 brand o' humor were missing from fo3, and that means the largest group o' current fo fans probable don't get the fo funny. and keep in mind that the Faithful still criticize fo2's humor as something approaching sacrilege. personally, we would loves to see some humor directed at the fans... throw in a furry, talking deathclaw dual-wielding desert eagles... have her explain her surefire, no-lose gambling strategy while lamenting that she can't get access to any casinos... drive away in a toyota prius with 1950's styling. HA! Good Fun!

if you say so. to Gromnir it looks like you is arguing flinstones setting... mammoths and brontosaurus in flinstones. btw, the audi wouldn't o' bothered us... though we thinks a delorean woulda been more amusing. HA! Good Fun!

the setting is camp. is dark-humor camp, but is still camp. is a bit like complaining that the chainsaw wielded by ash williams is actually a discontinued husquvarna model that would not be available for sale in your average late 80'/early 90's megamart. *shrug* nevertheless, it does seem that such stuff is important to folks. am personally not understanding it, but that ultra-nerd thing is no doubt a quality shared by more than a few o' the developers, so you probable got a good shot at finding a sympathetic obstinate or two. HA! Good Fun!