Gromnir

"So long, and thanks for all the fish." dolphins, recognizing the imminent peril o' earthly annihilation, leave. am just saying... HA! Good Fun!

y'know, Gromnir never played basic or expert d&d... played d&d, which had a messy evolution into ad&d. most d&d players were playing ad&d previous to the official name change, but we didn't realize we were playing ad&d. 'course original d&d were much closer to d&d basic/expert than it were to ad&d. sounds weird, no? does anybody know what is the over/under on pages needed for any codex thread to eventually include bio bashing? start a thread entitled " Your Favorite Tree" and am betting that by page 5 somebody will bring up and slam bio. "I bet Gaydar's favorite tree is the Maple or the Pu$$y Willow. Damn Canadian %^&*. What the hell is a Pu$$y Willow anyway? Is it even a real tree? Well, I guess that is ok because bioware isn't a real game developer." didn't learn anything from josh's interview, save to reinforce our belief that these internet interviews ain't conducted via the phone or in person... that or josh is an alien. real people not talk like josh responses. HA! Good Fun!

you think it were a great post? "These are sealed bubbles of activity that exist entirely outside of time and space, as time and space can be understood by their presentation in the free-roaming action that constitutes most of the game's content." Carl Sagan died in 1996... just in case somebody didn't read the obituary. stopped reading the "great post" at this point. if there were greatness after this point we is unaware, but surely there weren't any such quality previous. HA! Good Fun!

is not how we recall. defy God is how immortality got disrupted... if had stopped with listening to snake chatter... Which boils down to talking to snakes and then eating apples will strip one of immortality. ... you have an intriguing notion of "boils down." the boils down = defy god and you get punished. chatting with a snake not have no immediate or even secondary results. Galileo: looking at the stars will get you imprisoned Mark Twain: working on a riverboat will make you a great writer Sir Issac Newton: falling fruit is the key to scientific discovery bad logic is ok when being funny... but if you ain't funny... gotta know your strengths. and for a person seeming no longer having positive expectations regarding DA, you sure spends considerable effort educating folks 'bout the game. nothing wrong with such behavior, but is a little odd. am recalling a girl that dumped us in college. s'posed Gromnir weren't spending 'nuff time with her, or somesuch nonsense. sadly, the woman had some strange notions 'bout break-ups, 'cause in spite o' her being the dumper rather than the dumpee, we still got daily phone calls and accidental visits 'n such. were... disconcerting. am wondering if bio feels same. HA! Good Fun!

is not how we recall. defy God is how immortality got disrupted... if had stopped with listening to snake chatter... in any event, aristes is understandably confused. listen to Biowarians for 5 minutes and you get notions that DA is gonna be different on virtual every level: setting, rulez, character develop, thematic (Mature & Dark,) etc. the thing is, if you listen to Bio for 5 hours or 5 days, then you hear, "dark, but not too dark." is DA tolkienesque? sure, and more than intended. pretty much any setting that gots elves, dwarves and humans as major races, coupled with a Terrible Evil is gonna invoke the spirit o' tolkien, no? 'course it turns out that the biowarians didn't honest know the tolkien origin for orcs, so the parallels were a bit more pronounced than they realized. regardless, weren't as if setting were meant to be complete original. ps:t failed in part 'cause it were too unfamiliar. black isle coulda' very easily made a ps:t game that utilized same death mechanics, themes, basic plot, and recognizable same characters... but place in a more familiar setting. wouldn't actually have been planescape, but it woulda' sold better. you not think bio listen and learn from ps:t feedback? likewise, biowarians is no doubt familiar with nwn persistent worlds. honest take a look at the characters people create for the pws. am particularly recalling the pw developments Before nwn were actual released. what we saw from the pws were a disturbing parade o' overused archetypes. maybe you has heard Gromnir reference alfa in the past? were possibly the single most ambitious nwn pw project... literal thousands o' applicants. alfa required applicants to submit a character bio and concept along with their alfa application... were s'posed attempting to attract serious role-players. *groan* accepted members, of which there were many hundreds, had their character concepts and bios posted in the alfa character bank. you know what those hundereds o' serious role-players came up with? 'tween 80-90% o' alfa characters were cliche/archetype. left to own devices, serious role-players is a bunch o' unimaginative hacks. even so, Bio ain't in the business o' education... they is in the business o' entertainment. take your customers as you find 'em. aristes may not like to hear, but Most crpg fans wanna play one o' a handful o' familiar archetypes. is reason bio comes up with Origins. bio developers, from very start, claimed that they were gonna do different. the thing is that most people didn't stick around to hear what bio meant by "different." is understandable that aristes and others didn't wanna stick 'round for bio dog n' pony show... wade through the bio-board crap were probable equal unappealing. nevertheless, those folks who did listen and watch learned that bio were not intending to rebuild the crpg genre. bio were pretty up front and honest that they were Not attempting to reinvent the wheel. bio planned from very start to meet player expectations... give players what they wanted, while at same time they were gonna make more dark and more mature and more... different, but not too different. can't realize player expectations and be too different, can you? unlike bio, Gromnir starts from position that if you give folks what they ask for, they is gonna be disappointed. folks can only ask for what they know, but what they genuine want is to be pleasant surprised. folks ultimate want to have their expectations and assumptions redefined. even so, a smart developer that is looking for commercial success probable ain't so much interested in redefining expectations. if a developer can earn money by following formula and embracing conventions, then what motivation is there to risk originality? bio made clear from start that their DA originality were gonna be tempered and limited. if aristes got wrong impression it is understandable, but can't blame bio for the misunderstanding. yeah, bio said they would do different, but they also spent the last +5 years explaining that their "different" weren't same as aristes "different." HA! Good Fun!

Er, forget the E3 videos, what about the new website? And marketing campaign? And that the developers are clearly embarrassed by the marketing campaign? And that on the website the origins / RPG stuff is hidden in a bit about 'The Hero', as if your are playing a game where you're a pre-defined character? And the Paper / Scissors... review that outs the frankly toe-curling romance content? Hey, I know you are involved in all this and you know stuff we don't, but please don't take us for complete mugs. Cheers MC am not seeing a reason to forget the 3 stuff. for something approaching 5 years, Gromnir has been told "dark" and "gritty" and "mature" and "violent." have never really got even a halfway satisfactory notion as to what that all meant in terms o' da. so, violence trailer is released and we see what looks like some terrible attempt to replicate miller's 300: shower o' arrows, blood splatter, and a guy we genuine were expecting to yell, "This Is Sparta!" e3 demo is released and we get out-o'-context mercenary love that represents "consequences" and we sees a bit o' e3 combat that leaves us with more questions than answers. ... now Gromnir don't put much stock in trailers, but the trailer is meant to encourage potential buyers. in absence o' other material that tells us what is dark and mature, am finding it perfectly reasonable that some other folks is swayed by the trailers. act surprised that a trailer influences purchaser? why? trailer is 'posed to influence. for folks who has been following da that don't know what bio meant by dark and mature, the e3 stuff is maybe not what they were expecting. is no reason to forget the e3 stuff. *shrug* as has been noted previously by Gromnir elsewhere, am not knowing how to do 1 minute of good sex-me-up dialogue shown removed from the entire "romance" that led to the awkward game moment. on the plus side, bio romances is tangential and we can skip. on bad side, the bio romances is tangential and they is thus doomed to be rushed, immature and... stoopid. am not worried 'bout the romances. am betting that folks that liked previous bio romances will like da romances. folks see something genuine different 'bout romance shown at e3 demo compared to past bio stuff? as for the dark and mature... for Gromnir, is just a trailer, but is understandable why some reviewers and fans question. bio says for 5 years that da will be different than previous bio titles... dark and mature. violence trailer and e3 demo is what bio meant? am not convinced or even worried, but am seeing why some folks gots their shorts in a twist. HA! Good Fun!

red sonja is... *shrug* the original character by Howard (Red Sonya of Rota-something-or-other) were a polish chick with guns and the setting for her story were real world ottoman empire at the height o' its power. 1 short story. No Conan and no swords for Sonya. am honest unfamiliar with the comic stuff. HA! Good Fun!

am gonna slight disagree. is no good reason to alienate so many potential purchasers just 'cause o' reality. got no problem seeing the women fighting on equal terms with male counterparts... is a fantasy setting and not medieval europe. is arguable that there if there is dependable birth control methods available to DA setting women, they can be capable combatants. HA! Good Fun!

am equal perplexed by the seeming increase in weapon and armour size over the past few years. am not too bothered though. might as well complain that women armour looks like it were designed by victoria secret, chhainmail has always been able to lift and separate when it is worn by women... and having plate with special b00b modifications is nothing new either. you know how you can tell man from woman when they is wearing armour such as chain or plate? the women is typical shorter. on second though, am thinking that Gromnir is bothered. am recalling when we could sneer at japanese crpgs and their ridiculous weapons and armour. voluptuous armoured elf chicks, in high heels, wielding swords that appears to weigh as much as small car. western games is fast approaching similar silliness. for chrissakes, don't take away from us the chance to mock asian games. HA! Good Fun!

you folks is putzes. stated influences o' da: bsg... ancient evil rising/returning? check. game o' thrones... ancient evil rising/returning? check how 'bout lotr? check. thomas covenant books? check. how 'bout something newer... like mazlan book of the fallen? crap, that gots a return o' ancient evil too. above stuff is all so similar, right? *snort* whatever flaws DA is gonna be suffering from, mere fact that you gotta combat ancient evil/threat is NOT gonna be a genuine issue worth noting. just 'cause you post on a silly message board not mean you gotta go all numb from the neck up and start repeating complaints others is making. btw, the real reason da will fail is 'cause o' the Origins is more noise than substance. is no wonder recent release material is focusing on blood and sex. HA! Good Fun! ps somebody should tell the biowarians that you cannot has your ancient evils periodically waking from "eternal" slumber.

am not understanding all the vo complaints. nothing great, but nothing terrible. the french girl were a bit lacking... but with only a single line is tough to judge. the romance seemed... terrible, but that were expected. already debated the context aspect over at codex. Gromnir hates bio romance, and getting no more than the sex-me-up speech from the harlot character were gonna make it dreadful difficult to impress us with 30 seconds o' screen time. big shock that the book delivery = snogging were fail for Gromnir? is tough to tell what were going on with the combat. am a guy who typically makes use o' pause when available. the DA demo were a bit too frenetic for us. interface looked doable. some hokey/clumsy dialogue that were 'posed to give us a glimpse o' mature consequences? *shrug* too little, but not enough to judge. summary/reflect... velvetta-class cheese from the sex and some dialogue that were a bit awkward, plus combat that were occurring too quick for us to honest tell how characters were being controlled... coulda' done w/o the blood splatter and the salesmanship, but the demo weren't near as terrible as some suggested. HA! Good Fun!

Hi Josh! I have a question: What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? *sigh* is that an African swallow or a European swallow? the fact that Gromnir recognizes is personally shameful. HA! Good Fun!

Whatever would we do without your exuberant enthusiasm? am not certain, but am guessing that a handful o' you would be locked in a serious debate 'bout how transporter technology is plausible/implausible. HA! Good Fun!

am wanting a star trek crpg 'bout as much as we is looking forward to a serious case of jock itch. ... guy in the red shirt dies... can we all go home now? HA! Good Fun!

if that were what wrath were saying, then am doubtful you would see and disagreement... save from a few serious graphics snobs. and once again let us please keep in mind that Gromnir ain't suggested that he thinks aod will suck... am asking why folks like wrath is sooooo enthusiastic. graphics? wrath keeps trying to convince us that graphics is stellar. HA! writing? as aristes points out, the Fantabulous examples wrath came up with were pretty damned pedestrian. is tough to judge game writing based on a couple o' snippets lifted w/o context, so is not as if game is doomed 'cause o' wrath examples, but is no reason to applaud nether. combat? wrath notes that a combat demo is forthcoming, so is tough to be excited as yet. etc. the only reason we can figure that people is current enthusiastic 'bout the game is based on fact that vd claims he is gonna do better than everybody else... which is exact the same kinda promise every developer makes. wrath got faith. faith is a wonderful thing. good for wrath. the thing is that it is tough to argue when all you got is faith. HA! Good Fun!

come now. is a terrible argument. particularly as you is simply throwing Gromnir qualifier back at him. wrath is talking 'bout artistic value within the medium and is using industry-wide as measure. is not suggesting that old skool 2d looks kewl compared to 3d. is saying that the low budget 3d efforts o' iron tower exceeds any mainstream games he can care to name. is you honest defending? really? can Gromnir conceive o' a 3d game that is low budget but blows EVERY other mainstream effort out of the water? sure we can... as a hypothetical. unfortunate we ain' t talking hypo are we cg? we got aod screenies. you honestly think that aod holds up compared to every mainstream game insofar as graphics is concerned? HA! Good Fun!

"Those graphics look totally playable to me." pretty much any graphics is playable if the gameplay is engaging. am personally a fan of much of the old 2d stuff... 'course aod screenies not got advantage o' some o' the kewl hand-painted 2d stuff from past. is just ugly 3d. *shrug* graphics of aod is ugly but not unplayable. however, when folks claim that no mainstream game gots better graphics than what we has seen from aod... is silly. is silly and unnecessary. HA! Good Fun!

is two snippets, taken out o' context... didn't even read second one after the "supernatural aura" bit. yeah, am sure that the guys at iowa and irvine is all envious. 'course you is also the guy who ain't seen mainstream game graphics you likes better than aod, so is some questions regarding your honesty/taste/sanity. HA! Good Fun!

several outcomes does not preclude critical path(s). is the easiest thing in the world to create multiple outcomes as long as nothing follows. kinda undercuts the meaningful aspect. again, is bifurcation OR meaningful alteration... otherwise you end up with toee nonsense where developers simply tries to make sure that every skill gets useful outcomes... mess. which brings us back to our original criticism. a sp role-play game w/o compelling story elements taht gives player a reason to play becomes real dull real fast. "These are things that, to get right, require some pretty expensive skill-sets." yeah? so? again, am not suggesting that a good game NEEDS top-shelf graphics, but when a defender o' aod makes following observation... "I can't really think of another mainstream game whose graphics I prefer" again, nowhere does Gromnir suggest need of top-shelf graphics. am the guy who still plays panzer general from time to time. even so, the defenders o' the faith is getting wacky with how far they is going to try and defend aod if they compares graphics to other mainstream games that does have big budgets. HA! Good Fun!

"You have multiple ways of advancing through the main story, not just insular side quests, I'm not even sure AOD has insular side quests" would be kinda tragic if were no insular side quests, 'cause we grantee that not every aod quest resolution results in bifurcation or Meaningful alteration o' critical path. Gromnir read the choice and consequences stuff too, and we thinks you is being equal willful blind 'bout meaningful consequences in aod as you is 'bout graphics... again using some lesser measure or standard. "I can't really think of another mainstream game whose graphics I prefer" you see, this is the kinda thing where folks in thread who may wanna genuine agree with you is gonna have eye-roll reaction... dismiss you rather than take serious. HA! Good Fun!

am not sure what points you is trying to make. how many other developers has given examples o' how quest has multiple resolutions? heck, Gromnir can name quests in motb that gots five or six possible resolutions... and as mentioned earlier, many o' the toee early quests had multiple resolutions... is just that they all were suckage... and as Gromnir has noted many times, multiple resolution o' side quest can has loads o' options, 'cause the consequences are, in fact, insular. and again, ea audience has 0 relevance to why you have faith in iron tower. "And did you even see the screenshot I posted, or the other links?" yes. no offense, but you is being delusional if you thinks you is showing swell graphics with linky. swell for an indie developer with low budget? sure, but is that the measure? HA! Good Fun!

am positive that some folks will like simply 'cause they convinced self ahead of time that game were good. am certain that some other folks will claim to like even if they gots reservations. is more than a couple o' games that has been released where we seen the core boardies claim success even if virtual all other peoples claim fail. spend dozens o' hours on a game board and some folks is gonna get emotionally invested... no surprise. the thing is, if some folks is already convincing selves that aod is having keen graphics, then we suspect that they is invested beyond reasoning. convince Gromnir that graphics is unimportant? yeah, we get that... but argue that aod looks kewl? HA! Good Fun!

is as if you complete ignore the ea point after recognizing that many developers pay lip service to choice and consequence... you maybe not realize that you pretty much prove our point 'bout Faith. is not that iron tower is promising anything different than a half dozen other developers, is simply that in spite of little experience and questionable production values you BELIEVE that vd will actually produce meaningful choice and consequence. you don't believe that ea could make a "proper" crpg, in spite of fact that they got resources and experience. you do believe in iron tower in spite o' their paltry resume and limited resources. fine. you got Faith... but don't act surprised 'cause Gromnir don't. convince us maybe that angels exist 'cause you believe in 'em? am not gonna deny your faith, but don't act surprised 'cause we needs more than your faith that iron tower will do more than "pay lip service" and that it somehow works in context o' a story-driven game... which is something we sees getting glossed over more frequent than not. does vd have a nwn/nwn2 mod that we can see how his notions o' choice and consequences work in context o' a story driven game? would be curious to see. HA! Good Fun!

opinions 'bout writing and graphics aside, the following is where you and Gromnir is gonna suffer serious disconnect: "It's not that he's trying to make it just like Fallout, it's that he believes that providing choices and consequences is key in proper RPG design." if you or vd believe that there is such a thing as "proper RPG design," then we is gonna have a hard time communicating. am always bothered by folks who seems to has some notion of "proper" regarding crpg design. typically we disagree with such folks regarding their definition, but am more concerned by the straitjacket people is placing 'pon themselves if they embrace such a curiously reactionary pov. is not that vd is doing homage to fo... he just wanna do proper... the way fo did. HA! and the "choices and consequences" language has become a shibboleth for the hack developer. EVERY developer claims that choice is good in crpgs and that they wanna instill genuine consequences tied to such choices. am getting genuine tired o' hearing. is actually pretty darn easy to create choices and consequences in game... so long as such consequences don't result in much branching or halting o' critical path plot... and is still difficult if results in branching and breaking of individual side-quest stories. am waiting to hear some genuine novel approach that successful makes story concerns compatible with rpg notions o' choice & consequence. 'til then the choice and consequence shtick is simply noise we has heard from folks with far more impressive development resumes than vd. choice and consequences ain't the end that some developers seem to suggest. "The game is not ugly looking, as I said before, technically the graphics are very decent, and the art design is great." am thinking you would be better served by not fighting this point. makes you seem like you is trying too hard. would probably be more advantageous to simple admit that graphics is sub-par... 'cause otherwise you come off seeming a little delusional. as for the writing... am curious where you has seen examples o' good writing from iron tower relating to aod. honest. "I never said the game is guaranteed to be good. At most all I can say for now everything I've seen of it looks very good." and Gromnir once again asks what is the good? you ain't seen the combat demo but you is enthusiastic. am doubting you is honest suggesting that it is the graphics is sooper-groovy-keen and the writing, what there is of it, is pedestrian at best. other than the o' so familiar developer rhetoric 'bout choice and consequences, what is you genuinely seeing in aod that is "very good"... and developer enthusiasm not count in Gromnir's book. Gromnir is a big fan o' Doubting Thomas... am gonna wanna probe the wounds before we believe. ask self, if aod were a ea game, and it were ea making same promises as is vd, and showing similar graphics in released screenies, would you be enthusiastic or would you be slamming 'em? be honest. try to be honest. maybe what you actually has is Faith, 'cause we ain't yet seen something to make us a believer. HA! Good Fun!

send question back at you. given that all we gots is graphics screenies and some promises from developers... along with the choices and consequences stuff, how can you be so enthusiastic? graphics is hardly on-par with AAA games... if am using alphabet we probably end up down 'round L or M for graphics. is nothing particularly impressive 'bout announced rules. sounds like fantasy fallout... which is what arcanum tried. if arcanum teach us anything it is that falloutesque not necessarily result in a quality game. is pretty standard array of attributes we seen in previous fantasy games, and is not as if we ain't seen similar stats. rules ain't particularly innovative... which ain't a bad thing. so often developers get caught up in da rulez and forget that implementation is what genuine counts. combat demo ain't been released, so is tough to laud aod combat, no? so far we sees screens that makes it look like a hodgepodge amalgam 'tween d&d and fo... got similar interface to fo but we sees references to power attacks and critical hits and numerical values that look very d&d like. have read the iron throne choices and consequences thread. as we note already, it reminds us of the early portions o' toee. aod examples o' writing ain't on par with motb or kotor or a host o' other games... but we has seen so little that is tough to judge... so how can you judge good? regardless, no matter how many choices and opportunities you provide, player will become bored if you not makes for compelling story. crpgs is NOT rpgs in traditional pnp sense. pnp allows for cooperative and extemporaneous storytelling... but without fellow players you gots a big burden dumped on developer to be finding reason to keep player interested and so far it not sound like ado developers get that fact. again, question is returned... given what we got from iron tower, how can you be so enthusiastic 'bout an admitted ugly looking game that gots no genuine positive combat demo or writing samples? am not writing aod off as a lost cause, but am not getting the enthusiasm given the lack o' positives... other than the typical empty promises we has seen from a dozen more experienced and better funded developers over the decades. is you having some particular faith that vd is different than cain or sawyer or gaider or avellone? why? HA! Good Fun! side note: just so folks understand where we is coming from, Gromnir honest believes that genuine innovation and improvement in game industry will probable have to come from some indie developer. is ironic that game development has become so expensive that established developers has a hard time justifying innovation-- is too risky. so, keep in mind that Gromnir is always enthusiastic when we hears that some indie developer is trying to do... different. am simply not seeing anything all that great or different 'bout aod. have heard same promises 'bout Real choice from a half dozen other developers, so that is nothing new. maybe if aod weren't trying so hard to look/sound like fantasy fallout we might be more enthusiastic. is tough to be innovative when you is so obvious influenced by a previous game that had, as fergie described, "soul numbing" combat, terrible balance and mediocre writing.