metadigital

Somehow I wish you or someone else had jumped in to say this earlier. Can't blame anyone for not getting involved, but it might have spared me from trolling by metadigital and flaming by XboxSithLord... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You were guilty of hysterical over-reaction, including screaming at me for disagreeing with you, and pointing out you were apologising for the lack of quality writing, in the same way as ShadowPaladin is, "because it can't be done", "because it hasn't been done". I would have continued to argue the point with you, had you not become histrionic. You are quite welcome to make any points that have not already been made (for the sake of brevity and sanity), though I have been arguing the same points for over three pages now.

That is, once again, a perfect example of your own subjective opinion. You really like the sound of your own voice, don't you? I could care about a couple of third-rate actors! How much do you really think they get paid for voice work? I'll tell you, it is several orders of magnitude less than any other element, including writing. Once again you display a charming na

The game is completely disrespectful. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think that depends on the attitude in which it was created. AFAIK, the developers were (allegedly) motivated to create a groundswell of interest in the general public to research the historical facts, not just out to make a name for being contraversial. (I'm not so na

I dont see how an RPG could sell in those numbers. Unless your name is Squenix it just dosnt happen. For an offline RPG I've never heard of figures of more than a million five. (the aforementioned aside). I've never played the game so I couldnt really compare what KOTORII did in a sixth of the time. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Um, guys, the reason Half-Life 2 was so over budget (time-wise) was because the pissed around building a new physics engine that had superior graphics. And they did that. And that's great, for a FPS. Now, as for the plot being a little thin, as numbers has alleged, I would argue it was building on the original game (which is a little dangerous), and adding a comedic voice, generated by the conceit that was promulgated throughout the game. The writing was more like subtle touches on the tiller of the yacht of the Half-Life narrative, steering the same vehicle into prismatically different shades of the same waterways, not shooting the boat into outer-space. (Sure I would like to have seen more. And I'm sure we will. Some of the best plays are set in one room: one-act plays.)

Perhaps if you were you would see how ridiculous that is. If anything it should be me saying it to you since your the one refusing to accept reality here. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "Reality".

I find your defeatist attitude tedious. It hasn't been done, therefore it won't be done. By your reasoning, studios would never have made films that cost more than US$100million, and yet they have. And, yes, as a matter of fact I would pay more for the game. But it needn't be as much as you are stating. Don't let your poor grasp of economics get in the way of a good hyperbole! ... Which is exactly what you do if you are DS. C'mon, you're not even trying. And what would learning their filmography prove? Firsly, I doubt very much that their fees would be high enough to even warrant their own ledger entry in the developer's journal. Secondly, are you suggesting that the minute cadre of working actors are the only ones that are any good? That any of the unemployed ones are not suitable? I think you really don't understand what you are talking about. I have friends who are jobbing actors, in tv and cinema. You are completely wrong, the reason actor unemployment is so high is not based on a lack of quality, it is an oversupply. (There's that pesky economics again.) No, that is your continued assertion, it is not good writing. Good writing handles such situations. You are merely displaying your own lack of imagination. But there was an impact, the battle was different. It is a perfect example. In one of my playthroughs, the drow companion turned against my party (I think it was bloody Deakin casdting a harmful area-affect spell), and she was consequently unavailable for the rest of the game. If she were a love interest (one of the options at the end of Chapter Three, randomly calculated), then that particular narrative arc would remain unfulfilled: unrequited love! But it was incorporated adequately, especially for an old game. As I pointed out immediately above, there are long-term ramifications, and the writing was not significantly more complex. And taking potshots at my discrimination doesn't distract me from the fact tht you display none. Only to a defeatist who has demonstrated no grasp of economics, aside from a herd metaility. Except the above examples that I have quoted! You are too easily pleased. Why do you even play RPGs? Why not play a FPS, if that's all you want?

He played a psychotic stoner, and he did it well. I also really appreciated his performance in Se7en. However, as a comparison with Robert Redford (something done quite a bit), he is a poor imitation at best.

Alright, I don't mind people enjoying fredom of choice, but claiming Mr Willaims has a talent for singing is a complete falacy. I had to turn off his attempted Sinatra singing at the Albert Hall because he could hold the notes or sing in tune. It was painful. You may like him as an entertainer, you may think he is a good pop singer, but he has not the smallest scintillant of singing talent. And his writing is completely derivative, now that his awrd-winning songwriter has left him, he will find it difficult to make a hit. But you enjoy him. Good luck to you. I would certainly pee in his pint. But not if he were burning.

did you not have a kettle-equivalent to boil some water for three minutes?

Way to post something totally pointless. By this can I conclude that you now realise that your ideas are not realistic. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I see you are a scholar of the classics.

You are saying it is already possible to do all these things, it is just too expensive. Because it hasn't been done yet. Using that logic, the aeroplane was too expensive to build. The story of Morrowind was as incidental as the stories of both KotORs. What makes you think they are expensive? As a component cost, the voice acting would have to be just above coffee and tea for the duration of the development cycle. How did I run out? And you are forgetting the difficulty in killing a boss character as a low level PC. How did I contradict my point, exactly? I played the game twice: two different ways, with two different narrative arcs that met up at the battle. Seems like an ideal proof of my point, not a contradiction. I was aware you thought it was funny. The point you again miss is that this isn't rocket science; even games you look upon with derision have incorporated it. :cool:

E pur si muove!

Half-Life 2 suffered precisely because they spent all their preparation on the game world (physics and graphics), and not enough on converting the story to gameplay. For example, I still have Half-Life Visitors installed on my PC, because the story is fun to play. Why are mods and expansions so popular? (Even ignoring the free community ones.) Not because they introduce some fantastic new graphical innovation; they can only provide more examples of writing.

And I have countered that it can be done, without taking away the optional narrative branches. Morrowind is not story-based? What is it based on, then? Yes, but actors are surprisingly cheap to maintain. I know quite a few of them. (Remeber that acting is one of the worst vocations for employment, upwards of 90% unemployed at any moment.) Then Nihilus is the baddy, or a the Kreia you killed was a clone (like I already said). Yes, in fact the first time through I completed all five. And the second time, I didn't give the mirror away, I just killed everthing that moved, and killed the Mind Flayers that turned up later. You are being churlish. I was quoting existing (and, indeed, old established) gameplay technology to provide a cogent example of how a simple grafting of certain ideas together would produce exceptional results. Again, a "quick win" for the developers.

No, it is not the truth. You are over-simplifying my point in a attempt at reducto ad absurdum. Half-Life 2 was released last year and is still in the top ten games being sold. K2, even with the huge amount of goodwill generated by the first game, disapeared without a trace as soon as it became common knowledge that the game was not all it was meant to be. I'd rather have the revenues from Half-Life 2 than K2, any day. No, I am propounding the use of deeper characters fused with optional narratives. No, I was making a specific point (which you have still avoided even acknowledging). Here it is again: a tiny amount of effort would have converted some of the invested capital of K2 into immediate gains in immersion. This would have been a "quick win" for the developers. You keep suggesting that flexibility of narrative and depth of character are necessarily lost when making a game with choice. It is not true. It is more work, yes, but it is not a mandatory precondition.

1. Okay, now I'm confused: is it impossible, or has it been done before. 2. Seemed to be quite easy to do in Morrowind: the PC could even kill off critical NPCs to the main plot. Now, I'm not suggesting that, but there is always alternatives that can be written into the narartive. Kreia dies? Atris is the baddy. Or Nihilus. Or Sion. Or the original Kreia, whose clone was killed in the early part of the story. (After all, let's face it, Darth Traya , anyway. And that is the main NPC of K2, and it is easily solved! 3. Ignoring your comments about workload, the comments about motivation are new, so I shall address them. The simple answer is to give the PC a reason to do some action, whereby it benefits them more to do a certain thing than not. For example, in NwN HotU, the battle at the end of Chapter 2 is directly effected by the side quests that the PC completes, and the way they are completed. For example, adds these combatants to the big battle, as does the failure to complete any of the side quests also add the correlated enemies to the battle. So this is not new, it is simply pulling all the different strands together and making a superlative gaming experience.

Because you say so? But you can determine that you never want to play the game again, can't you? Most of these RPGs are trying to score highly in replayability ... certainly that was an obvious goal for K2. I say again, what will lift an entirely forgettable game into the realm of classic is good writing. Invest in the writing and it will pay dividends long after any investment in graphics has long since faded. No, I'm not. You keep telling me I am, but I am actually trying to build some depth into a CRPG. So all arguments that use the most readily available example are dismissed out of hand? I was making a point about how a tiny effort could have transformed the game, using the existing IP. You just wrote off my point saying "it wasn't finished", which is totally beside the point. In case you wonder why I re-iterate this point, it is to refute the insinuation that you are continuing to promulgate that it would be a sisyphean task to write a deep story, with complex interactions with NPCs.

Nicely said. I dont think any of that is realistic until a computer can adjust the story on the fly in the same way a human DM can. Until that point it's either a very tightly controlled story with minimum real choice, or a more open generic story but allowing for more meaningful choices on the players part. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I see. So what is this special DM-only technique that cannot possibly be replicated by a programmer?

You seem determined to to write me up as a JRPG fan. I am talking about more than that; by your own admission those stories are very linear. Why does it require an entire re-write of the entire story arc? It just requires all the points on the story arc that are simulataneous (to keep the cartesian analogy going) with the variable minor narrative arc. If Jolee gets the squirts and doesn't want to play anymore because your PC insists on hanging around with HK, then Jolee doesn't participate as a party member for the rest of the game. Or the hostage taken in the last scene of Act 2 can be Jolee (if the PC is LS), or Jolee can take some "relic" from the PC that must be retrieved (LS or DS) to complete the story. Or, if Jolee stays, his child niece is kidnapped (LS). Sure DS narratives are still less options than LS; that is a factor of the alignment: there are less motivations for a DS than there are for a LS, LS players have many more opportunities for ethical dilemmas.

:D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quiet in the peanut gallery!

Firsty, you are putting words into my posts. I am discriminating, fact. The availability of options for me to choose has no effect on that. If there is nothing I find satisfatory (as I have already said) I will not just buy anything. Life is too short. Secondly, you sem to be very sure that it is "impossible" to write a connected series of scenes where, in some of them

Why would no-one buy a masterpeice? Grim Fandango is an adventure game. It couldn't be further from an RPG if it tried. I was using the voice-acting, the direction and the high production values as a benchmark. There isn't a good example of what I'm talking about, because I am propounding the next evolutionary step in RPG writing. Truly, you are acting like it is a sisyphean task to write an interconnected story with multiple endings and several minor narrative arcs for the secondary NPCs. It's not, it's just a little bit more complex. It takes more effort, it's not impossible. (I'll leave the quesiton of probability open, as that will only be answered after the future reveals itself to us.)

I didn't like the added jumpy bit in K2. I did try on Telos, but as it was broken (and I didn't know at the time) I became very frustrated and disillusioned.

Pretty lightsaber progress bars.

... especially considering the Swoop Racing was broken!