Aegeri

Indeed, guess Lucasarts didn't like the general reception that KotoR2 suffered here.

Unfortunately, it's a weaker game than the first. 1. It's still too damn easy. 2. Plenty of bugs this time around. 3. Force powers are still inanely overpowered. They took all the faults of the original, added a few more in terms of bugs and overall made a worse game. This isn't to say I didn't enjoy it, but I was let down considerably.

About damn time they bit the bullet. It's been a slow painful death however.

As anal as even I like to be in various debates, I do suspect he was trying to say consisted and not consistent.

I see. so it doesn't raise a character's generation permantently and/or gain that vampire's powers? I was under the assupmtion that this was why vampires commited diablere and this being the reason to why for example Tremere did this to Saulot? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Correct, I realised after I had run off to do some shopping that I messed up the description somewhat. Yes, when you consume the blood of an Elder vampie your bloods 'potency' does in fact increase and you become much more powerful (hence rapidly raising generation). However, it is a little more involved than just drinking all of the blood of an Eldar Vampire out. Firstly, the victim has to be in a state of Torpor, which is why the Sabbat are so keen on finding the sleeping antediluvians. Secondly, after consuming all of the blood of the victim the vampire keeps on feeding, in this situation the Vampire is actually consuming the 'soul' of the victim and draining their very unlife. This is the actually what Diablerie is, slightly more involved than just drinking the other vampires blood. The benefits are usually an increase in the potency of the vampires blood (if the victim was of a higher generation), the gaining of their vampiric powers at times and very often other things such as the victims memories and the like. Vampires can sense other vampires that have done this act, and after diablerizing a victim the vampire will often develop black veins that will show him for what he is to others. As a slight correction to this, you can get over being a ghoul depending on how often you are given vampiric vitae, how long it has been going on and a few other circumstances. Depends on how the ST wants to run it, I usually have characters that have become ex-ghouls pick up derangements to remove their status. But ghouls that have been like they are for a significant period of time often can't recover. Hopefully my statement isn't quite as misleading as it was anymore

Oki doki! Kay. I believe you get a smell or sense about you, from memory, Vampires that primarily feed on animals such as Nosferatu are often looked down on by other vampires who can 'sense' what sort of blood they have been drinking. Diablerising other Vampires is something that you will inevitably get a reputation for, the Sabbat are particularly keen on doing this, and Camarilla vampires that are found to be doing this are hunted down and killed. Presumably, if you do it to a sufficiently older Vampire it would be the way you 'smelled' that would probably trick other vampires off (the whole primal beast aspect). IIRC, diablerised blood only gives you a temporary boost in power unless it's from a really really old vampire. It still gives a power boost, but not as much. This is because Vampire blood is a lot more potent than the blood of mortals. Yes, it is like a permanent 'addiction' that the person cannot get over. It can be compared to having your body flooded with a drug like heroin only much more significant. Ghouls that are seperated from their masters become desperate, and may be driven to attack a Vampire or simply end their lives in order to get more blood. Yes they do, but usually only minor changes. Typically, the benefits to being a ghoul are that you gain a much higher amount of strength (more so than a human), you can take a lot more pain (for example, being shot isn't as instantly lethal), and you have some vampiric abilities, namely the ability to regenerate tissues (this is how Mecurio goes from being completely shot up to healthy very quickly in game).

Basically, but the meta got so much for me I just lost all of the plots eventually for Werewolf and Mage. I followed Vampire relatively closely however, so I never quite got entirely out of the loop for it. I do admit I have the Hunter, Mummy and Wraith books too, but I never did anything more than just read them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I see. well, would you mind if I asked a few WoD related questions then? Since they're about vampires, it shouldn't be too difficult if you're most familiar with them... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Kay, I'm mostly familiar with the newer material, but I remember most of the older kind of stuff, Probably best to pm me, I have to go out and do some Christmas shopping soon.

The whole thing is a mess deliberately, you can't have people thinking they know *everything* Actually, I'm not sure if it was just oddities on White Wolfs part, or if it was just different authors doing different stuff without really knowing what other fellows were doing.

Basically, but the meta got so much for me I just lost all of the plots eventually for Werewolf and Mage. I followed Vampire relatively closely however, so I never quite got entirely out of the loop for it. I do admit I have the Hunter, Mummy and Wraith books too, but I never did anything more than just read them.

Hmm. Where's this scenario? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> One of the final source books had it, I can't remember which one because things got massively confused at the end. I remember that it came from somewhere, and there were several ways in which it could of ended. Bizzairely, Lilith kills Caine in one of them (how I'm still uncertain). I'll try to find out which one it was.

As a simple explanation, they are ultra powerful vampires who are just insanely old and are often the original Vampires who created each clan. They have basically been asleep for ages and ages, and one of the main things with Gehenna and all is they get up and eat all their progeny. When the Ravnos antediluvian woke up, he basically wiped out most of the entire clan after deciding to eat the majority of them. The antediluvian under new york is of course the Tzimisce one, and he gets up after a while and kicks the crap out of tons of people. Vampires that are caught on CNN fighting him, hence breaking the masquerade, are one of the alternative 'end of Vampire society/world' type endings you could choose to end your campaign with.

There is no point to calling this game Vampire: The Masquerade, without actually bothering to USE the source materials setting and canon. Again, it's great that you don't care about the setting and can't be bothered understanding it, however ironic it is that you've quoted from the sourcebooks of all things. For those of us familiar with the horror roleplaying genre, which despite being the monster (arguably the point of the white wolf series), V:tM is an example of, not everything is explained EVER as a part of the way these are run. For example, even in a Call of Cthulhu game you never answer every single question, because that is not a part of the way these games are played. However, if you had paid attention, you'll find that Bloodlines is in fact part of the gehenna series, and you can find the answers to most loose ends simply by reading that novel. Personally, I would rather see the next game set in the Requiem, where they have more freedom to do what they want, because there is no established meta plotline (yet). Exactly. I have been an ST for Werewolf, Mage, Vampire Dark Ages and recently Vampire: The Requiem. I like the setting as a general rule, but I still view World of Darkness as being more a Cthulhu lite setting than anything else.

Except you've missed the entire point of the Vampire *setting*. The whole point was that just because everyone THINKS there is an antediluvian in it, doesn't mean there IS going to be one in there. As for an ACTUAL antediluvian, try the thing imitating large sections of the New York sewer system for an example (Yes, that is one of them). Really, you think an Antediluvian is running around in some random coffin anyone can get their hands on? They are a LOT more significant than that. Funny, I did her in with a hand to hand character, mind telling me why my hand to hand character didn't win that fight when I whopped her arse good? I never had to use weapons the whole game actually.

Oh, its quite ingenius, its based on units of ten, instead of random numbers. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Units of ten never got anyone to the moon. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Except Scientists use SI units, yes even American ones, because they are forced to write in SI units or they can't get their papers published. SI units are ALWAYS metric units and were set as the 'official' measurement system for science a while ago. Metric system=win.

... E.T is a console game, made for the old atari system no less, I was pointing out an example of a console game that had a fatal bug that rendered the game completely unable to be finished, which you then agreed was 'the rule' as per your quote Volourn. Honestly, a word of advice: Never ever enter an official debate, even if the other team didn't show up or say anything you'd make them win it without them needing to participate.

Because consoles are unable to be patched, so when there is a bug, it is fatal. Of course, nobody told this to Obsidian evidently from the amount of problems that KotoR2 has. Incidently, E.T. (As an example). Game. Set. Match.

I have only ever had 2 crashes in the original game and that was completely unpatched, in fact, to date I have never bothered patching KotoR. Personally, sometimes it can be hardware or other incompatibilities, but I've begun to realise that blambing the PC is just a cop out for the real problem. That problem usually exists between the chair and the keyboard in more cases than people are willing to admit.

I disagree to an extent. Being LS allowed you to get an insane wisdom with certain items (+5 wisdom headband for LS characters only for example) which, combined with a suitable 2/18 whatever/consular meant your force powers were almost unstoppable. Add to this the incredible cheese of destroy droid and it's quite easy to argue LS is easier than DS, except at the opening stage of the game.

One who prefers RE 4 to KOTOR II doesn't really belong here. Clearly the Force is not strong with this one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> At the moment given a choice I would definitely take RE4 over KotoR2. Probably because I know for a fact RE4 won't end up being a bloody port with no good reason for a 2 month delay

So long as this game isn't just a port with a diabolical console interface like the previous game I am not worried about waiting. Besides, Resident Evil 4 comes out in February so I'm unlikely to care about KotoR 2 anyway

Taks is correct and I have no idea how mkreku what you wrote establishes what I asked him to prove, that HGT or HORIZONTAL GENE TRANSFER has occured between humans and DNA from what we eat. I have never seen anyone defend the statement that GE foods pose a risk due to the risk of detrimental HGT events to humans. Hence why I thought it would be truely hillarious if Mr Lost up there could have even made an attempt to back up (defend) his statement, which he obviously failed to do because he is clearly full of crap.

I understand your argument, what I attack is the scientific basis you have used to make several of your ridiculous statements. None of these you have been even remotely successful in defending. Quite frankly, you're blind. If you can't see the huge button on the first two (for example) with "click for full text articles" then you're more than a bit lost. The references to the papers are directly above that. I know for a fact you only read the abstracts, you just proved that not seconds before You, after all, couldn't even find the link to get to the full text or even that those weren't the entire article. Included for future reference. Two things: 1) Writing at least semi-correctly makes you look less retarded. 2) You did it again as your final sentence should be 'you ARE a grammar Nazi' and not, 'your a grammar Nazi'. Not only did you manage to mangle your grammar however, but you even managed to spell 'grammar' incorrectly just to add insult to injury. Oh well. I knew I shouldn't have bothered.

This establishes you cannot read, have another go at it. Yes, that is why we look up what is called the paper 'reference' or the full text of the article, which if you go to a university library, you should be able to easily get a hold of any of these papers. I am on a proxy from my Uni so can do so remotely, but these papers are not hard to find even if access on the net can be difficult. Again, you demonstrate you've never even *read* a scientific article if you haven't been quick enough to realise what I posted links to are the *abstracts* of a full research paper. It keeps saying 'this review covers'.. Uhh, wheres the review? Where is your evidence? Try looking at the 'full text article' or alternatively looking up the paper reference. Thus far. I'm talking about conclusive evidence that it's safe. Not an assumption. Where are the facts? Where are the findings? These are just outlines for their plans and speculations. Exactly, that's why these are ABSTRACTS Which is precisely what an abstract does when introducing a full scientific paper. I say so because the massive amount of evidence supports my position while your lot jump on the tiny scraps the tabloid news papers sometimes throw out (IE news of the world etc). I suggest reading the full text of the articles I posted, they are there, you may need to go to (shock horror) an actual library or University to find these things out. You know, where these journals typically go anyway. Alternatively, you could have stated "Newc, as you show I guess you're a forum heckler". Your is not the same as "you're" which, is a common conjunction of "you are". In my off days when I'm not battling the tin foil hat wearing legions, I double as a grammar Nazi.

Toxin implies that it has a negative physiological effect on the people or animals that consume it. Again, defend this statement (which you won't, as you have again failed to do). Again, defend this statement. Nowhere have I seen GE crops damaging the environment, though it is true that GE crop genes have turned up in native species, such as in Maize varieties in Mexico. These however are not causing damage to the environment, just shuffling genes via genetic drift. Considering you've not been able to support with good reliable sources any of the science you have claimed, I wouldn't be saying anything about how bright someone else is if I were you. Wrong. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15499316 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=12595137 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=12394371 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=12045422 And many more, with the overwhelming consensus that GE foods are safe. You can now count yourself as officially spanked, and this is without the most recent (2004, I think it was April) article in Nature that essentially outlined what health risks there were and the fact they are well established and well known (as one of my references demonstrates). Overall, my sources are from verifiable peer reviewed journals, you're rubbish is pulled straight out of your rear. I know for a direct fact what is more credible. And yes, before we go any further, there have been HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of papers published on GE, its safety, its effects on the environment and things like HGT. People like tinfoil wearer up there are flat out lying when they say these things haven't been done or we don't know about them. We do.

I'd love to see you defend this statement, the hillarity factor alone would make it worth while. Of course, you won't be able to with a single scientific paper that demonstrates an example of HGT between digested food DNA and those in our genome. But do try.