dam

And that is different from multi-classes in Infinity Engine games how, exactly ? I, for one, think you guys are much too quick to judge and to discard single classes. This isn't Obsidian's first RPG, you'll see

On my part, I really liked Rogues' sneak attacks in Neverwinter Nights 2. The ability to debuff enemies by hitting them where they're most vulnerable was cool. Would love a rogue talent to inflict debuffs on crits.

And from Dragon Age Origins ! Freeze -> Stone Fist -> shattered \o/

All dual wielding gets -50% action speed on all characters. Taking two weapon style adds another -20% Thanks for the clarification, that does answer the question of "is DW even worth it ?" which I had yet to open a thread to ask

Hold on, -50% dual wield ??? Is that not supposed to be 20% or so ?

It's not a general talent tree we are getting. They are not adding in new talents either. They are just taking some of the basic passives spread among the martial classes and putting them into the (weapon) proficiency pool which will change to allow you to pick a weapon proficiency or one of those talent at the current progression of weapon proficiency. There is no basic spellcasting passives spread anywhere to share. I have corrected my initial post, since then, to clarify for class-specific talents

Is that your personal feeling of what an Eoran wizard is (or should be), or is that canon ? 'cause I do not seem to find any lore explicitly stating that wizards are "the skilled and trained ones among all casters". Wizardry in RPGs is, generally, the ability to evoke effects (with or without resorting to implements and/or magical reagents) (arcane casting) as opposed to being allowed to cast this or that spell because of one's devotion to this or that deity (divine casting) or because of one's heritage (demonic abilities, draconic abilities). Nothing in there entails that the wizard (or divine caster) be particularly good at his craft, or underwent special training (or training at all). You make it seem as if wizards are the elite of the arcane casters, for which I can find no canonical reference. The wiki page for wizards, Description section, states they are "students of arcane [...] often forming academies or guilds". It goes on to say (background section) they are "of high education and extreme mental discipline". The page specifically states that wizard academies and guilds are "devoted to research and development in magical studies". There is not one thing in there supporting your claim/assumption that wizards are the elite of arcane casters, having undergone this or that rigorous training. One may very well conceive of a wizard as a somewhat recluse, somewhat close-minded researcher and pursuer of esoteric knowledge, who's had no field and combat experience whatsoever. One may as well conceive of another wizard being brought up and trained specifically as a battle-mage. True but I'm assuming that wizards have arcane powers because of lots of training and learning magic, which is probably hard and long path. It seems different than ciphers, druids or pirests, who (I guess) gain their power in more in-born/granted/gifted/natural way than hard work. That's why I compare wizards to fighters as those who learn their skill by both theoretic and practice way more as profession, ocupation (like scholars, soldiers). They are made, not born. But I pointed all this just for one purpose - at least Wizards should have ability to graze with spells just like fighters do with their attacks, thanks to, steady aim. Similarly, one may argue that only those that are born with an affinity for the esoteric might become wizards eventually, with enough nurturing With regards to the ability to graze, we are in agreement here, with the following reserve : The ability to graze was removed for a reason (slow down combat a bit, I think it was). Reintroducing it as a talent is tantamount to never having removed it to begin with, because everyone is going to pick said talent. Every - single - one. Edit: verbs are hard...

Aye, already mentioned here as well : https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/94446-items-bezas-toothed-blade/ It is unclear at the time whether this is intentional or not. One would think it isn't.

Hmm, power level gives you bonuses and not only source for using abilities? Damn, I'm bad They do aye. They give spells +pen for wizards, or monks +damage/pen for fists, for example. I apologize, I only have those two examples in mind right now. I do encourage you however, to seek out more

No, they don't. What they get is the opportunity to pick a different proficiency, which they will not use. Arguing that fists scaling automatically is a free proficiency is akin to saying accuracy for power levels is a free proficiency, or spell pen for power levels is a free proficiency. Neither are. Further to the point, weapons can come with additional effects (crit multiplier, prone on crit, spell striking...), which fists do not. You're right of course. Let's remove all weapon modals, they're pretty minor, especially since people need to spend the point. On topic, spend what point, actually ? You're making it seems like proficiencies cost ability/talent points, giving Monks an edge in that it's an extra point they get to use elsewhere. That is factually incorrect I am afraid. First off Monks are not only fist users, everything they have works just as well as with weapons. Using weapons then gives you all the little things you say are missing. Secondly that unspent proficiency can be used to get shield proficiency or a ranged weapon for utility and alpha striking. Except for stunning Blows all the monk attacks are primary weapon not full attack so dual wielding adds nothing and shield use does not hamper, in fact the deflection boost from a shield will drastically improve Dance of Death. Hello Captain America No need to get snarky about removing all modals. They add some cool effects but are not deal breakers either way. The free point in proficiencies is from not having to take fists. I roll a monk and I can take a shield and a bow and still fight with fists. Or grab a sword, staff, whatever and get fists to use as well. If you make fists a proficiency pick the unintended consequence will be in certain subclasses such as Devoted, you will get huge penetration. A Devoted with Thunderous Blows gets base 5+3 (Devoted) + 4 (Thunderous) + Transcendent +4or5 for a total of 16 penetration. Even if they don't stack you'd have 12 or 13 pen with fists and either Devoted or Thunderous which also is currently achievable and does not require any proficiency. Again what are Monks missing besides some sort of modal that may or may not ever get used? With regards to point one, yup they can use other weapons, it's also, IMHO, a suboptimal choice because you're missing out on a core class bonus, and many other classes can do that much better. With regards to point two : - ranged monk, okay sure w/e - stunning blows aren't the only full attack, Torment's Reach is as well, and there may be many more to come With regards to point three, that is a subjective point of view : yours It's not a deal breaker for you; do understand that it not being a deal breaker for you is absolutely, irrevocably irrelevant to me. You won't be playing my playthroughs, I will, so to be fair I couldn't care less what is or is not a deal breaker to you. Please take no offense, this is nothing personal, it's just how things are. With regards to point four, I'd rather have a choice in the decision to go for shields, or fist prof see ? Wanna get a shield on your monk ? go ahead, don't deny me the ability to pick fists instead. This stance reminds me of a very hot thread back in the days when some people wanted a character Respec option, while some others fervently argued against it. For some reason unknown, those against seemed to think that the option just being there would cheapen their game experience, even if nothing forced them to actually use it. With regards to point five, that is again a very specific scenario, just like swift strikes + confident aim. Specific cases must never be used as a base comparison point, that's why they're called specific... Edit: It is akin to saying "in 2% of the cases, this applies all the time !!" Yeah well, then it doesn't apply all the time now does it ? Therefore, it cannot be considered the rule, and must be considered the exception.

Nope, you also miss out on the 2 last tiers of Power Levels, which means : - you get more abilities to choose from as a multi-class but - those abilities are of a lower tier (and thus, likely, less powerful) Edit: oh and you also miss out on the passive bonii scaling with power levels (accuracy, penetration, whatever...)

I see a lot of focus on multiclassing options in these balance threads for priests, wizards, warriors whatever... Please keep in mind multiclassing comes at a cost, that of advancing power levels more slowly and likely missing out on the class' top tier abilities.

One cannot let UI issues get in the way of balance and game design. Hell, you want a quick fix ? See that levelup panel where you pick your skills ? See how there are 2 icons to switch tabs when you're a multiclass ? Good, add a 3rd icon for General talents. Here you go, UI issue sorted, now let's get them general talents Edit: Or mayhap you were talking about class-specific talents that are not actual spells ? Same stuff, add an icon \o/

No, they don't. What they get is the opportunity to pick a different proficiency, which they will not use. Arguing that fists scaling automatically is a free proficiency is akin to saying accuracy for power levels is a free proficiency, or spell pen for power levels is a free proficiency. Neither are. Further to the point, weapons can come with additional effects (crit multiplier, prone on crit, spell striking...), which fists do not. Edit: To clarify this sentence, people who decide on using fists knowingly give up on these extra effects and bonii. Denying them a proficiency (or the dual-wield bonus for example if fists aren't classified as melee weapons), further adds to this penalty. There are very little (if any) balance reasons to deny characters the ability to specialize in fists, just like there are none for not being able to pick Clubs either (that, or I'm blind, anyone see Clubs in the proficiency choices ?). You're right of course. Let's remove all weapon modals, they're pretty minor, especially since people need to spend the point. On topic, spend what point, actually ? You're making it seems like proficiencies cost ability/talent points, giving Monks an edge in that it's an extra point they get to use elsewhere. That is factually incorrect I am afraid.

Lack of physical space might very well be the biggest issue, yes. So how do we solve this? Increase the range of engagement for Unbroken/Shieldbearers? That would solve the issue of not just being unable to hold all those engagements, but also enemies just walking around the fighter with ease. Any downsides to that, besides it looking silly? Side note, I'm curious what your reason for being so vehemently against taunts is? If everything was exactly the same, but they just threw taunts on top of it, would that be acceptable? Please elaborate if not. That would solve nothing, you're creating a pigeonhole where your tank needs to be a spear-wielding unbroken/shieldbearer, you're not solving the underlying issue. Maybe the actual problem is that you guys work under the assumption that your one, main tank should, for some reason or another, be able to hold off 6-8 enemies at the same time ? Your conundrum is the following : - you have E enemies to deal with - you have T tanks - you have S support, cc or debuff characters - you have N nuke, high dps (burst, or sustained, or area) damage dealers How you deal with your E enemies depends on how many tanks you have, how many supports, how many damage dealers. Got only the one tank and the rest are 3 supports + 1 nuke ? Good, buy enough time with your tank that your supports can disable enemies, kill them off with your nuker. By the time your chain CC wears off, you should be down to a more manageable enemy force. Got 2 tanks, 1 support and 2 nukes ? (Edit: oopsie, 2 + 1 + 3 = 6, we only get 5 party members in POE2) Good, engage as many enemies as possible with your tanks (buff them with your support, or cc some more enemies), and rush the high profile, high threat enemies with your nukes. It all comes down to party composition, you're either purchasing enough time to thin the enemy ranks through engagement (tanks) or CC/debuffs (supports), or opting to inflict as much damage as possible from the start and deal with the remaining pieces after acquiring a numerical advantage. You wish for more tanking, you need yourself a second tanky-ish character, be it a paladin, a monk, a chanter or whatever else you come up with. Can't have a super tank that aggroes 20 enemies by himself.

I could see a raw damage DoT called dirty boxing or cheap shot. If they do get a fist proficiency a Devoted/Monk will have 5+3+4 = 12 penetration not counting whatever Transcendental suffering adds. Monks have Thunderous Blows which adds 4 penetration and +5 Might for 20 seconds for one wound. Currently any Monk can have a base 9 penetration after taking Thunderous Blows at tier four, the same as an Estoc. I can see the argument that proficient fists would add too much. I'd rather see them stay the same then have other powers nerfed as everyone isn't a Devoted, a Fighter multi or a Barbarian. Plus you can use weapons and benefit normally. You're talking about a multi-class here, which is a specific case. All the same, an assassin Monk gets a bonus to accuracy and pen with Assassinate. You're basically saying "monks are fine (as long as they have this other class' ability", that is not fine. It's like saying "hey you know, car without an engine is fine as long as you don't need to erm, well, drive".

Is that your personal feeling of what an Eoran wizard is (or should be), or is that canon ? 'cause I do not seem to find any lore explicitly stating that wizards are "the skilled and trained ones among all casters". Wizardry in RPGs is, generally, the ability to evoke effects (with or without resorting to implements and/or magical reagents) (arcane casting) as opposed to being allowed to cast this or that spell because of one's devotion to this or that deity (divine casting) or because of one's heritage (demonic abilities, draconic abilities). Nothing in there entails that the wizard (or divine caster) be particularly good at his craft, or underwent special training (or training at all). You make it seem as if wizards are the elite of the arcane casters, for which I can find no canonical reference. The wiki page for wizards, Description section, states they are "students of arcane [...] often forming academies or guilds". It goes on to say (background section) they are "of high education and extreme mental discipline". The page specifically states that wizard academies and guilds are "devoted to research and development in magical studies". There is not one thing in there supporting your claim/assumption that wizards are the elite of arcane casters, having undergone this or that rigorous training. One may very well conceive of a wizard as a somewhat recluse, somewhat close-minded researcher and pursuer of esoteric knowledge, who's had no field and combat experience whatsoever. One may as well conceive of another wizard being brought up and trained specifically as a battle-mage.

Brilliant news. I might return to my idea of importing a Priest again with this change. To bad my priest in POE lost their faith so.... not sure where they land yet. Your priest can lose their faith ? as in, literally ? Fck me I need to get me a priest and try that out ! Gotta love those games in which, years later, you still discover stuff ^^

A specialist priest, such as the premade one, can choose to pick the specialty spell he would otherwise receive for free, at level up. You may wish to prevent them from doing so. Repro : - new game, whatever character you like - level up your premade priest a couple times (until he unlocks power level 3 spells that is) - poof, you can pick your specialty spell and click next Oh and it's still impossible to flag bugs with "Character Creation/Adventurers Hall" tag, the forum refuses it with an error. As in, an application-generated error, not invalid SQL or w/e.

This, I like. Maybe even stronger than that, make them re-engage when targetted, hit or miss. Here's a thought that hasn't come up, though: what about enemies that have abilities to escape engagement like a rogue or ranger has? How do we deal with what happens when they break out of engagement with no repercussion? First of all, keep in mind breaking that engagement had a cost, the use of rogue resource that could have been used on a Blind instead, so we're not talking about a free disengage there. Second, if when that happens, then it's time for you to get out your own tools to negate or mitigate the engagement (CC, debuffs, buffs on engaged char, your own disengage...) . Negating the backliners' ability to get to your own backline would make the game absolutely monotonous and boring, the AI needs some way to at least try and get to your threatening units. Think of it like chess if you will. Your opponent has paid a cost (his move) for a strategic play. It's now your turn to pay the cost (your move) to counter said play.

Now, here's an idea pops to mind... How about some kind of IDK, google shared sheet or something, or a XML file (apply a XSL stylesheet to it and we're gold). You could populate it from Jira using API calls, even filtering out some issues tagged as DO_NOT_PUBLISH or whatever. Obviously there'd be a little tinkering and setting up involved, but personally, I'd like the challenge (and the chance to do something different) if I were one of your sysadm You could set it up with fields like : short title; category; severity; reproducible; status; long description There would be no need to include sensitive fields like assigned dev/team, or creation date which to be fair, are not even relevant or just do not concern us. Edit: file format suggestion included for free

Okay I gotcha an absolutely awesome combo with that save. - ability bar says 5 focus (yeah no, it says 5 rogue resource to use ^^' ) - portrait mini-indicator says 17 focus - mouseover on portrait mini-indicator says 12 focus AssaSoulblade (Beach) (ae25c554-7a70-414e-9079-19e3144233ad) quicksave.zip I would point out that 5 is the max focus malus a soulblade gets (IIRC), and that 12 = 17 - 5 Also, my character happens to be level 7 and 17 = 10 (base starting ?) + 7 (level ?) No idea if related, mere speculation here. File attached. Had to zip it 'cause the forum doesn't like raw save files (or the extension) :'(

You guys spend some quality time, work's not gonna run away anyhow

I'm confused Caleb ^^' Did you mean : 1/ "the bug is tagged as fixed internally, it'll go away in a future update" or 2/ "the bug's already been fixed before the beta went live" ? (which, apparently, it hasn't )

Aye, that would be a possibility to explore. Obviously, as shown by Josh's recent twitter posts or dev/QA answers in these forums, Obsidian monitor closely the feedback they receive from testers. I'm sure they have something in mind for engagement and battle flow control. All the more so when the mechanic was changed from POE1, that's something they'll be keeping an eye on. While it's never not often too soon to debate things, keep in mind the early focus here is probably on rooting out the most obvious or game breaking issues, at the current time.