Kjaamor

I hear what you're saying, but I think there's a touch of not being able to see the wood for the trees going on. PoE is a game based on combat. PoE is a game featuring monsters, which you will have to kill. If you're kiling orcs, trolls and werewolves, that's fine. If you're killing humans with Downs Syndrome, Elephantitis or Hypertrichosis because the locals believe them to be orcs, trolls or werewolves, then I'm going to go out there and suggest that you've got a serious ****ing problem with your game. (I recognise that the OP was not suggesting anything like as harsh as this, but I am suggesting they're ultimately cut from the same cloth) Subjective reactions it may be, but it's still incredibly offensive.

Whilst normally I find Josh to be extremely balanced and straightforward, I can't help but feel that tongue might have been just a little bit in cheek during that post. I sense a touch of "The only reason we're not doing it is because we don't have the resources to do it, and the resources we're lacking are people who want to do it".

Upon further examination, your prediction is, whilst practically ridiculous, logically sound, and since the original reason I pulled you up over it was over its logical value, I shall have to apologise. Sorry about that.

See, the first sentence is true, but the second is false, and the justification provided for the second being true is the same justification that makes the first sentence true. Developing characters down realms of emotion and interaction that do not include romance does not, in any way, guarantee or even suggest that the realms of emotion and interaction that are used will be new, even within the context of the IE games.

I do hope you're not implying that either of the Icewind Dale games had better plots than Baldur's Gate II? The IWDs were churned out in the quickest time possible, and in terms of plot, characterisation and companions are not much use as an example for anything. EDIT: Sorry, Josh.

Absolutely spot on.

It is possible, of course.

Although the post-nuclear apocalypse setting is inherently dystopic, the experiences of the...you know what? I had typed a long argument here, but it's better summed up as this: Fallout 1+2 didn't have kids being tied up and set ablaze and people semi-routinely shooting themselves in the face over how grim things were. The setting matters far less than the general writing styles of the time. Probably not before Nexus poops out a nude mod. But 72 hours sounds about right. H'yep.

"BILBO BAGGINS! DO NOT TAKE ME FOR SOME CONJURER OF CHEAP TRICKS!" *Sparks fly from armpits*

Mature writing in the context of the IE games was touted, and it being Obsidian I would've been astonished if it was anything less. Unfortunately (for me), I'm getting the distinct impression that PoE's "maturity" is going to come in the form of another hopelessly bleak setting a la New Vegas, Game of Thrones and what seems like two thirds of fantasy of any form since 2010. And while I enjoyed New Vegas and, up to a point, Game of Thrones, the reality is that grittiness gets very draining. While I sincerely hope that Obsidian and others benefiting from kickstarter can break free of the creative shackles of the big publishers and create games as an art form, it's not unreasonable for me to also expect to be entertained. Being hammered into depression against the anvil of dystopia is not what I had in mind.

Presumably, when your high strength mage tries to intimidate someone, sparks fly from his armpits rather than his muscles flexing. Or something.

Well, at least that's one ****storm that should settle a little, even if there'll still be a trickle of new people starting new threads on it from time to time. Frankly, even before Chris Avellone made his thoughts abundantly clear, I would always have been surprised if PoE had ever featured romances. You stick to what you're good at, and are comfortable doing, after all. Of far greater concern to me, is the wafting stench of grittiness that is coming from the pot of Eternity. Mature themes, racism, cynical outlooks... God forbid high fantasy should ever remain as just that.

Abstract.

See, I must admit, although I look back fondly upon the Aerie (ymmdefinitelyv) and Viconia romances, I must admit that I tend to suppress any thought of the whole Jaheira thing; just because it was so bloody uncomfortable. There's this woman, a friend of my fathers, and I got to know her and her husband. They became like aunt and uncle for me. Then suddenly he drops dead and I can either have sex with her, be horrible to her or kick her out of the party. It would've been nice if you could've just been nice to her without trying to jump her bones. DRAGON AGE SPOILERS AHEAD I'm mindful that I seem to have referred to several things that this game did well, lately, and certainly don't want people to think that I believe its strengths compensate for its many and varied weaknesses, but... ...as a "good" character in DA:O, one of the best romances in western crpgs I've witnessed was the one my PC had with Morrigan; simply because unlike in most other games my character ended up being the one who was used - and all the high and mighty attempts to "save" his princess were for naught. I think I felt quite cheated at the time (although that could've been the combat), but it served to provide an unexpected end and an emotional response, which can only be a good thing. You know, sometimes I look at things Bioware have done, even after I started cursing their work, and I wonder whether it is truly their fault or just the funnelling of genres in the modern AAA age. Maybe I should hate the game rather than the player. Ho-hum. Anyway...

Realistically, most people who want their experiences intensified would prefer the Trial of Iron/Path of the Damned modes than by weakening their character. Traits, that balance a weakness with a strength, are always popular (inevitably some more than others; I'm looking at you, Gifted). If you're talking pure weaknesses, people tend to kick up a fuss about stuff like that even if it's balanced in.

Not that I disagree with your direction on this issue, but balancing is not the same as pacing or predictability. I know what you mean about "cannon fodder, elites, mini-bosses and bosses"; it shows up worst in MMOs, but is prevelant in both crpgs and a great number of predesigned/hand-holding p&p games. To me, the existance of such groups isn't nearly so much of a problem as the pacing of them. The worst single player (or largely single player) example of pacing with this system that I can immediate think of is Dungeon Siege II, which consistently threw two minutes of cannon fodder then mini-boss, until an hour had passed whereupon it threw in a boss. The predictability made it very boring very quickly. In contrast, the mmo Lord of the Rings Online, a game firmly based in "cannon fodder, elites, etc" camp, has, in it's earlier areas, rare fodder/elite/mini-bosses/bosses who provide unexpected, often extremely difficult challenges to players. (Lotro's present company Turbine, in their less than infinite wisdom, decided not to bother to keep making these creatures and instead concentrate on the grind) What I'm getting at, is that surprises are a good thing, but are best implemented into the design, rather than arriving as a result of botches of balance - something which would appear to be the case in your M&MX example. An unexpected large difficulty spike (The sword spiders+web spell in Larswood immediately springs to mind) is great, but an unexpected difficulty drop is much more likely to be disatisfying. Humourous, perhaps, should it occur once, but - dare I use a term I hate so much on these forums - immersion breaking when it occurs repeatedly. In terms of your final suggestion, on the ability to walk into a party wipe from near the off, it's nice to be offered this opportunity, but you should be steered away from it. Best example of this to my mind is leaving the vault in Fallout 1. If you go east (where you're pointed), things will be easy. If you go south, things will be more difficult. If you go west (the opposite direction to where you're pointed), then you'll die. Also, while its nice to be able to walk into a Lich-lair at level 6, such things have to be in the minority or else you end up punishing your player for exploration rather than rewarding them. Not that you were saying anything to the contrary, but just to be clear.

You know, it would be nice if an rpg romance; a) Occurred within the companions b) The above could occur in opposition to the PC - characters on the same side competing for affection c) Occurs with consequences, so that Romance is something you sacrifice for - perhaps losing attribute points, or losing a feat Anyway, it's all pretty moot because PoE looks highly unlikely to have anything of the sort.

The other option, in terms of compensating for low stats, might be the equivilant of the "weapon finesse" feat from 3.5. Obviously it would require some balancing issues rather than being transplanted like-for-like, but it was a reasonable solution then and I can't immediately see why it shouldn't be now.

At first I thought it was a draught, but in hindsight it was probably Sesame.

*Animates dead* Horses. So we've not heard anything on this front for a while, and I was wondering if there had been any further thought to it? As far as I am concerned, mounted combat in PoE is not something that there is much scope for and is therefore not particularly desireable. However Bill the PonyTM as stash/fast travel speed boost (in the manner of the highwayman) seems very much in the spirit of the game without breaking the the gameplay. Even if horses do not have a gameplay effect, it would still be nice to see them in game, in the way cattle were in the original BG. I don't see the setting as requiring our party to be on horseback, but I would like to see a few of them in the settlements at least, and make them a 'monster' with a bit of reactivity to them.

Agreed. Past tense gives the impression of reduced agency in the goings on of the story, even if it practically makes no difference. Keep it present tense, please.

You may find yourself in quite the minority on these forums with that opinion, Bryy.

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In a game, a computer game, a computer roleplaying game, a computer roleplaying game with combat...

To be honest, I'm against stuff like this. I think if you start running parallels between real world conditions and high fantasy then you run the risk of achieving something extremely offensive. At what level of de-humanisation is it acceptable to start swinging your sword and slaying things? Let high fantasy be high fantasy.