
Chrononaut
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Fair enough, I think character generation should have a sense of natural logic about it. It makes sense that a Fighter needs to be strong, a Mage needs to be intelligent, a Bard (well, chanter) needs to be charismatic, a Rogue/Thief to be dexterous. If someone is stumped even by simple notions like that....
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Update #61: In-game Art
Chrononaut replied to BAdler's topic in Pillars of Eternity: Announcements & News
Can enemies open doors?- 204 replies
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- Rob Nesler
- Concept Art
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That is fundamentally his opinion, why is JE Sawyer's opinion on D&D somehow universal truth. It's arrogance and it's offensive to those who are familiar with and like that system. So he thinks D&D is ****, okay that's his opinions but if he thinks it's so horrible why did they namedrop it on the KS, and continue to name-drop it while asking for fan-funding on their website: Unless of course what you miss isn't the mechanics of those games but just the grafix! I do not think D&D is without problems, I just think PE is going in a whole other direction, and it will eventually alienate people. Hey I'm not a fanboy but at least Wasteland 2 is using the same basic rules as the original game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenaries,_Spies_and_Private_Eyes
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Lol, I fully expect PE to be a buggy and incomplete game. I would just rather it at least have a good character system so the least it will have potential for future expansion. I think there's a good chance the Shadowrun Returns modding community for example is gonna fall flat on it's face because of the horrible and boring character system which didn't use the tabletop rules. Also I have no doubt the second city will get cut, and/or the megadungeon will also get cut in half. How is d20 "not their own ruleset", there's been plenty of original rulesets which use d20 as a basis, doesn't mean they aren't original. Numenera is using d20. My problem with PE mechanics goes far deeper than just d20 or even D&D, it's fundamentally that the system is not going to be using traditional dice-rolling under the hood for rolling to hit or make saves. It's gonna be real-time yeah but it's not going to have combat rounds with each character has their own "turn" of 6 seconds. ie when playing PE, it's not going to feel like playing an IE game in terms of combat flow, it's going to feel like a squad-based RTS or Action-RTS (they also call em MOBA's). It's fundamentally about making a system which is familiar to IE players, not about being dogmatic to D&D (even if D&D or OGL is what I'd prefer). It's simply about the fact that from all the mechanics/classes/combat updates we've got on PE, the combat is going to basically be an action-game, not "RPG-like" in mechanics. Oh well, their funeral, it'll piss off a lot of people.
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Actually I'm pretty sure you do say that. I don't think Sawyer is going to design Dungeons and Dragons: Ultimate Fixed Edition. I actually (gratefully) expect a deviation from strict adherence to D&D rules. I mean the depth and complexity of D&D, not the rules per-say. And it's not about strict adherence or even adherence, from all the mechanics updates of PE I have read, the system they are designing sounds nothing like D&D or how combat was resolved in the IE games. I simply think a system which was designed to be familiar to players of D&D computer games would of been more appropriate, instead of something totally alien to it. They made a Kickstarter which specifically mentioned Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment, what else did we have to go off? As I said previously I don't think "IE-like" means isometric graphics alone, graphics are completely cosmetic. And telling me to leave because I don't conform to a fanboy norm of a forum is pretty weak, I think a forum is exactly the place to disagree. I just think the conduct of OE in regard to the games they told the backers they were inspired by has been disrespectful, do you think the IE games had nothing to do with D&D or something? I think OE are deliberately distancing themselves from backers (because they already have our money, duh) and are looking at making PE more appealing to a broader audience than just Computer RPG players. Trying to get rid of "unviable builds" in chargen, no dump stats, so anyone can get through chargen with their eyes closed and still end up with a character that doesn't suck... making so all weapons (even ranged) always hit in combat. I'll guarantee you also that PE will have none of the fantastically powerful creatures from BG, you won't have Basilisks that can petrify a character in a single glance, because that wouldn't be balanced and all that.
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Update #61: In-game Art
Chrononaut replied to BAdler's topic in Pillars of Eternity: Announcements & News
I'm glad they seem to be using a (relatively) high polycount for the 3D models. 3D models floating on 2D maps always stick out like a sore thumb unless they are detailed enough to blend in like sprites do. Temple of Elemental Evil was a particular offender- 204 replies
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- Rob Nesler
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Evil - how far should PE go?
Chrononaut replied to Cultist's topic in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
You can't defend it. Unkillable NPC's fundamentally destroy world-building. Everything is static and unbelievable when everyone can't die. -
Making a platformer game for Xbox makes him better? I think any designer worth their salt should make a game which has more than jumping and running. I think a lot of indie games in the market currently are nothing but laziness disguised as being "artsy", "creative" or "unique", when all they really want is a to get mentioned by a few youtube "celebrities" and get some quick cash. I think indie devs like the guy behind Underrail, or NEO Scavenger, or most importantly Toady the dev of Dwarf Fortress, those are the unsung heroes slaving away day and night making really complex games. They aren't the usual pretentious loudmouths like Fish making simplistic and childish games.
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Evil - how far should PE go?
Chrononaut replied to Cultist's topic in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
I think that RPGs that have unkillable NPC's feel plastic and fake. The game can always tell the player if they triggered a fail-state by killing an essential NPC, Morrowind-style, or the game could have no essential NPC's at all, and simply make the end-game something like "get the water chip from the Master". -
There's Knights of the Chalice: And despite having primitive graphics has one of the best combat systems I've ever played in a cRPG (ToEE was obviously better). The reason why more don't use it? Because it's huge obviously, even implementing the "core" of OGL would be a huge task, even if you took out Feats, Prestige Classes, and the like.
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To be honest, I just think d20 is a simple yet deep system, it's almost perfect, you just roll and add your statistic on top to see if you pass or fail. It's easy to understand and simple to design content for. And most importantly, it's familiar both for paper/pen players but also for anything who has played D&D video games from the past.
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I wasn't saying that D&D isn't a flawed system, and changes to rules are almost expected when translating them to computer to fix real or perceived flaws. I just think that it's ridiculous to think OE will design an RPG ruleset better than D&D in a few months or pre-production, it flies against all common sense. They may end up with a more "balanced" system, but if that system is just rock/paper/scissors and barely any depth, what's the point. Arcanum has one of the most unbalanced character systems ever in a cRPG, does that mean I would prefer go play Diablo II with it's perfectly patched balance? No. There are no traps in D&D, the system just relies on common sense and logic in the player (ie making a Fighter who isn't strong is a bad idea), PE seems to be more designed around making even the most stupid character choices "viable" to lower to bar to entry for more casual players. Over-emphasis on balance is also a bad idea in general, and one that should be way down the list in a single-player RPG without even co-op. And for your information, D&D 3.5 was released as open-game license a long time and can be used by cRPGs, so no need for an official D&D license.
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Obsidian underestimated how long it would take to make a video game? Say it isn't so. Now we get to know how Sega felt. Apart from this being really dumb.... They underestimated nothing, as the old date was still with the original goal in mind + them saying they will release it as bugfree as possible Obsidian have never made a bug-free game. Neverwinter Nights to this day still has unfixed bugs floating around. You believe PE won't be a mess on release?
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So D&D, a system played and tested by millions, and designed over periods of years, is a "flawed" system, yet somehow a bunch of crunching video game developers on a short development timetable and shoe-string budget are going to make something better, either more complex or more balance (or both)? The arrogance of making a KS project based on namedropping Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape: Torment, and then proceeding to not even take inspiration from the rules in those games (D&D license notwithstanding, I mean taking inspiration so the rules feel familiar to d20 players) in some kind of delusional belief that they can magically create a better RPG ruleset in 21 months than the TSR/WoTC guys could over a much, much larger design and playtesting period. Not only is it greatly offensive to namedrop those games and then slag all over AD&D/3.5 once the KS is over (D&D is a terrible system, blah blah), it's also arrogant because the chances of OE coming up with a character system of comparable scope, depth and complexity, AND make it balanced.... Well if you believe that, well I've got some special coolaid in my truck to sell you. Just look at all OE's games, all of them had relatively simplistic character systems, New Vegas was the closest they ever got to complexity but it was still just another single-character RPG and thus not even close to what it requires to design a RPG system required for party gameplay. Unless of course you're perfectly fine with an "RPG" with a shallow character system, "classes" with a few unique special abilities Warcraft III heroes-like. You can say "Oh but the guys at OE were at Black Isle and made IWD/PST", and yeah sure, but they had D&D rules laid out and they could focus on content, they don't have that luxury this time. I won't say it's impossible, but if you people think JE Sawyer is going to design Dungeons & Dragons: Ultimate Fixed Edition crunching in a few months of pre-production.... Even Wasteland 2 has MSPE basic rules to work with, they didn't have to design a system from the ground up (plus its original designer Michael Stackpole on-board), Numenera: Tides of Torment also has Monte Cook doing his P&P game which the designers have to base Torment on. Shadowrun Returns ditched using the tabletop rules for their game and ended up with a very simplistic and linear character system (which funnily enough is also unbalanced as hell). There's a reason the D&D license was the golden goose back in the day, it's because video games have tight schedules and designing a ruleset which isn't complete **** in that timetable when you've got programmers and artists working is not viable. I wonder if you guys think PE will magically have a good ruleset just because no evil publisher, the reality is (from OE's record) it won't be good. Licensing D&D or Pathfinder is probably the only way this game could of been better than the IE games.
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Party Mechanics - Downtime
Chrononaut replied to HunterOG's topic in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)
Sure, I mean focusing on that kinda stuff. Majority of BG was just clearing out dungeons/towers, I do not mean it in a bad way it was fun because of D&D rules and the large amount of character options, as well as the large amount of unique creatures. I just think it's silly to romanticize what these older CRPG's really were. If OE wants to make a game which is somewhere between BG, IWD and PST, then I'm not exactly sure what kinda game that makes PE but I do know it means a lot of combat. -
Party Mechanics - Downtime
Chrononaut replied to HunterOG's topic in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)
Really? From memory basically all Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale were dungeon crawling, they had dialogues but the vast majority of the gameplay was fighting through towers or dungeons, IWD doubly so. As for "living world", well neither BG nor IWD had that, NPC's always stood in the same place waiting for you to speak to them, they had no scripted routines for day/night etc. Almost all of PE's Kickstarter updates have been related to combat mechanics. I think you would be the one mistaken if you think PE will not be a dungeon crawler. It might be more open-world than BG/IWD but I would bet quite a lot it will be a combat slog game, perhaps tied together with some nice dialogues and maybe a puzzle or two. I have played every game Obsidian has made, all of which had budgets and development timetables far in excess of this project, and all of them were combat slog games, why would anyone expect anything more? As for "Dungeon Hunter Alliance", a google says it is a PS3 game, and I don't own one of those nor do I play non-computer video games. -
Druid Class
Chrononaut replied to AndreyPlatonov's topic in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)
I would personally like to see Druids not gain all their abilities as they level, but have to find herbs in the wild in order to unlock specific abilities, much like how it is hinted the Mage will have to find some spells in the world. -
Why I hate combat in RPGs.
Chrononaut replied to Micamo's topic in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)
Well yeah. I'm not arguing that the cop scenario couldn't be implemented in a boring, horrible, and pointless way, or that the bandit scenario couldn't be implemented in a fantastic way. Maybe you spend a large portion of the game driving and cops just pull you over randomly for no reason, and the encounter with the body in your trunk plays 100% identically to every other encounter (and there's no special chance of anything going differently because of the changed circumstances). My frustration isn't with combat itself but in the way meaningless combat scenarios that I don't care about are so frequently thrown in to pad hours onto CRPGs. It's the DM showing up to the session saying "Sorry guys, I was busy snorting coke off of hookers and didn't prepare anything for this session. Have 4 hours of random encounter tables!" Maybe you just don't like RPG combat then? I personally spent at least 100 hours grinding on random encounters in Crusaders of the Dark Savant just to get my party as godly as possible, and I don't remember it ever feeling boring or tedious, you know because the combat in that game is just that damn good. Same goes for Bard's Tale I, combat was so fun that fighting endless encounters of 99 Barbarians wasn't annoying. But then again no RPG with real-time combat has ever had really great combat, so perhaps as far as PE is concerned best to keep the combat to a minimum.- 56 replies
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Party Mechanics - Downtime
Chrononaut replied to HunterOG's topic in Pillars of Eternity: Stories (Spoiler Warning!)
I don't really like any of those ideas, tbh. CRPG's are adventures, they aren't filler episodes for tv shows, the primary purpose of a CRPG (or at least an IE-like one) is killing monsters, getting xp and loot, doing quests, etc. I instinctively dislike any suggestion of going into "Sims" territory, you see it in modern RPG's too like with that Hearthfire DLC for Skyrim. CRPG's are about adventuring, not make-believe simulation stuff like player housing. You go in that direction and soon you'll have a whole bunch of "fans" who want player marriages, children, and make believe they're living in a fantasy world, and a whole lot of unrelated crap. Even with regard to camps, what is the point? If you need to rest to memorize spells, sure, but apart from that what is the point? If PE doesn't have a hunger/thirst meter (well I expect not), OE aren't making Realms of Arkania so your party aren't going to get life-threatening diseases or whatever that require resting and the like. If it's cosmetic and not mechanical, ie if the player doesn't need to use this stuff then there's not much point. -
I have never really liked companions in cRPG's to be honest, they never seem to fit the type of character I want in my party at the time (stats, class, etc). And if they have banter, it's just annoying. Thankfully PE will have an Adventurer's Hall so one can just have a traditional blank-slate party