Morgulon the Wise

Percentual distribution of attribute influence is the key to abstract formulas like the bow craftmanship which I presented.

I really like some of the minigames for unlocking locks and disarming traps. I only didn't like the possibility to disarm a lvl 100 lock with an lvl 5 lockpicking skill in Oblivion and Skyrim. There should be things you cant possibly master with a low/not matching skill. But hey they are a step in a good not-rolling pass-or-fail mechanic. Only problem is that not everything can be solved through minigames. (Although I'd really like a minigame for summoning) @ Stun. I don't like that: I'd automatically reload if the result is <10 (because I liked the killed character a lot and nearly finished his personal questline). This would make this mechanic superfluous. Its more important to know how the death spell worked and solve this problem. (and a simple protection spell shouldn't help)

I think a New Game+ is for a designer notihing more than a kick in his crown jewels. For me there is no valid reason but money in stretching a game like this.

Ohh c'mon 10 hitpoints. Imagine... A wonderful blooming maiden joins your group. She is very timid and wholehearted but has as a mage quite the problem to cast a decent fireball. Since she has the knowledge of quite a lot protective spells you let her be for a while. Some campfires and adventures later you get to know about her dream of singing in front of an old and legendary orlan cipher who can hear the souls most deepest wish. But she is shy and there is a long way to go until you get that bastard who didn't pay his taxes at all on his knees right in front her. She sings after you had to persuade her... he is pissed off from the situation but whispers the wish into her ear. Now she has an aim in her life which you don't know, but she gained something... she traded a dream for another but she did overcome herself and is now ... sure what she wants, what she is doing. You might have to buy new protective gear against her new fireballs now.

I like your fixed+modifier system! it only could become a bit confusing in the later game if you get 100+ permanent modifiers per character ^^ slightly changes in a decimal place of an attribute might be less funny but much more clear. Still since I want an abstract system there will be some things which are only tangible through modifiers. Which still shouldn't be permanent.

You got the point that there IS a difference between the varietys of output. Also don't forget that recources are in every way a defensive stat. Perception is mostly for protection (awareness/caution) and flexibility/finesse is good for everything but has to be used actively. so on the other hand only power is solely for output, perception helps passively and flexibility also has to be actively used for output (but might need high power for constant high results. Good perception and flexibility might help to get some really devastating "crit hits". Power without finesse is just dull bashing.If your character has much power and a good perception he might have good chances to evade, but he would lack finesse to hit the vulnerable spots he sees. In a dialogue power is needed to persuade and intimidate. Ressources (faith/belief) make you strong against intimidations and questions from others your answers wont be limited through their influence on you. Charisma gives you extra opportunities and makes you credible. Awareness/emphasis lets you see more of the others intentions and actions while they speak, you get more deciphered text.

This isn't about the real world though... And African/Celtic/Slavic/Germanic indeed prayed to trees, the sun, the moon and the stars, ate mushrooms (and other funny stuff), sacrificed people and cattle fitting to their needs to persuade their gods. But they hadn't to protect the wood! This is new. In these centuries they had to "protect" the people from the woods. I like BG and IWD druids. Somehow espacially Arundel. Since then I play druids whenever I can. I like this balance bla. It functions on a much bigger scale than most of you let show in your posts. Magical protectors of the woods is what WoW and others made out of them. Their biggest forte is to merge... into everywhere.

Hm, maybe you get to an 1/128 possibility of not getting killed from the first spell... I think some people who like possibilities really loved this all- or nothing system and implemented it. ( I think at 1990 it was considered the best way to do things real-time)

Gothic (1&2) had : STR, DEX, HP, MP and various extra skills If there weren't limitations through your class you could have developed easily into a Jack of all trades. Ah and I like the attributes mostly FIXED. Only changeable through profound effects which change the whole personality (with a reasonable narrative background. I distance myself from an earlier quote: I think it should be dependant on the choices you made, not free distributable. Maybe my bow explanation was too vague and abstract. All of these factors in firing a bow are also possibilities where skills could be embedded to enhance the performance of firing a bow. Every class has other approaches and craftsmanship how to deal with their world. A mage could also shoot arrows with a bow (Yay, we're not in D&D ^^) but he will not have the interest to refine the skills with it (although he could shoot exploding fire arrows!) This variety of approaches in every class should be able to break though the pattern you mentioned. What I like in my attribute system is that it isn't a system which only refers to battle roles ( as dps, tank, etc. ) but depicts rather a personality of the character with its traits: directness, calmness, flexebility and wariness. Or his aim: control/result, reliability, innovation/adaption, low risk/caution. At least you could see them also as 12 attributes... wich would automatically be confusing

I don't need a replay if my character (s) is(are) highly customizable. Also I want to do all things I can imagine in the first turn. There shouldn't be any monster or person at the end of the game I can't possibly kill. But this isn't the point. At the end of the game I want to lift mysteries of things I thought I know rather than killing everyone who comes across. Solving things is better than overpower things I want to play with my brain, not with the experience and the items of my characters... And If I got solved all the things I don't want to solve it the same way again! I want another game, another turn of events but not based on my mighty heros lvl20 strenght. It should be based on my new heros decisions, personality and skills which let me think a new way.

There are fast muscles and more resilient muscles though, so I think it's legit to abstract the whole thing into kind of strength and flexibility/mobility/dexterity/speed/whatever. Maybe if you're not so strong and use a two-handed hammer, it should slow you down. But just because you are strong enough to wield a heavy hammer, shouldn't mean that you have a higher natural speed then say, someone who can only fight with daggers due to low strength. You're right there. Only fast-twitch-muscles are for speed. I only didn't want to open a new category like: speed (fastness altogether) moving speed, thinking speed/casting speed, talking speed 8P First I thought speed defines mostly through muscles and you have to force yourself to activate them in a fast way. Swinging a dagger really fast is also a very offensive skill although some flexibility helps a lot since you get faster through accustomization to the movement. It is even possible to develop techniques to speed things up. At least in my opinion speed has too many factors to be an sole attribute. I don't like games like TES where you can raise your speed via attribute points. But I hope that my system is clear otherwise. For example what attributes do you need to hit an aim with a bow? Force lets you move your string and helps with maintaining the other processes, resources like wisdom give you the opportunity to aim at vulnerable parts, endurance gives you a constant output, flexibility makes all the movement smooth, maybe more effective(less clumsy) and makes you imagine one or two tricks and perception might help with moving targets or shows you wich part of the enemy looks most vulnerable at the given time, for example if he has a hole in his armor you can try to aim for it.

I liked this most so far. With a half-half form this might get quite decent. The important thing which distances druids from mages and fighters should be at least their individual skills. I dont want to see a bear-druid berserk when a berserk does this job in a better way. This would not be fighting side on side with nature... which a druid should really do. I'd like him to bite, tear flesh with his claws and flail around with poison ivy.

I like this way of thinking although the first example is a bit too vague with too many items and the second might be too simple but I like this linkedness. I combined a bit. I liked 4 attributes with 3 layers of manifestation which are based on: body, brains and personality force (offensive skill) is muscular strength, focus/concentration and self-esteem resources (defensive skill) is body constitution, knowledge and faith flexibility (handling skill) is dexterity, fluid intelligence and charisma perception (awareness skill) is for reflexes, finding things/understanding patterns and emphasis attractiveness is a possible trait, but I think it shouldn't be buyable with the same points. It should still be possible to for the player to rate a character in levels like -5, -4, -3...,0, ...3, 4, 5 wich also should have some effects in the game. Some NCs will like certain levels of attractiveness more than others, but you might be able to change your appeareance through clothing and spells. Speed is dependent on force. The soul is part of everything - only muscular strength and constitution might keep on its level if it is taken or weakened. Dependant which class you choose, your character should have another access to these 4 attributes. Still he/she should gain from all of the 3 layers. A mage with a lot of force might have some more self esteem and might also be able to wield a heavy mace quite effectively by channeling some magical power into his arm. Skills should become available with a certain experience and matching attributes. Which should by the way only raised by up to 5 points by special events (for every event every group member gets one free point to distribute). An attribute can get at most raised by 2 through this procedure. Have you any ideas to develop this system?

Here my more minimal attempt of my version. I thought there was a lot of vertical space, why dont you use it? And why not this size of portraits? For those who like it clunky. I like the buff/malus helmet/skull icons from Karkarovs version. I could've copied it but laziness won. remember the flowerknobs are placeholder...

@ Karkarov This UI is really good! Yep I like this much more curvy solution than the earlier mockups. Your aesthetic decisions are well thought through, it all has lost a lot of the rectangular-block-feeling. (this is what argued me most in the early 3D games like NWN, Dungeon Siege, Morrowind - it was too much Windows) If the portraits should be moveable (I still prefer portraits in the vertical ) the main menu button should locate itself in a more central position- This button might be the biggest problem your UI still has (there are not many problems left). I like your reduction of buttons. I hope that the designers will choose a compromise between our UIs.

Possibilites of effect should be determined by the way who casts how the instant kill. A warrior type could for example kill himself with the staff of whatsoever death, while a mage just points and kills a lot of foes (It shouldn't be written on it how to use - you should get your info elsewhere - in libaries or from yet living witnesses). There should be no percentages.

Foul ones are more squishy if you smelt them. I think he had fun. Which program were you using?

1. instant death should have a narrative background 2. you or your foe have to make a lot of preparances (in narrative style or in time before finishing the cast/the poison/ the blow) before releasing a banshee scream out of a soundproof bottle, you have for example search for the right material of the earplugs - your fingers won't do - to protect your group against it. And even then you have to look out who you kill or not. And monsters without hearing senses could tend to be immune... 3. consequences There should only be up to 10 instant death possibilities in the game. Maybe there should even exist a list ingame of prohibited ways or legendary methods (in an assasins guild given from master to master). A boss with an instant death ability should be known for such. If you kill him you should have the opportunity to steal his way of instant killing if your party has nothing against it. Instant death in your hands should be a one-time-use thing. Not something your wizard casts dayly. If it has been cast, it should KILL. No percentages. Only with the right timing and preparations. It should be fun to perform it, because you have only one of each.

That wouldn't do. Biggest problem in this solution is the 3D-animation which contradicts the (in my opinion) PE narrtive style. Remember the dragon egg. The popping up window is good, but I would simply want the characters well represented in the UI so the portraits should be bigger (maybe not as big as in my UI --> customable would be nice doesn't it?). I made my UI in this "extremely spacey" way to show in which direction an UI can also go. I like the way this discussion goes

Hey guys! Sorry that I post my UI all over again, but the latest comments or likes mostly refered to my first version. THIS is my second and last Version. I tried to involve most of the comments in the other tread. Thank you so far. It seemed that I could inspire some of you.

Sounds pretty cool. I would also like to see your UI (mine is worked over now ^^). Didn't find your E3 room yet. @Orduckmaniac: It also interests me storywise how this new world is an old world...

Thank you for your replies. I couldn't dissolve the left obsidian field because its in the same layer as the background. For that I would've had to start anew. Although I didn't want to erase it completely. I think flattened it would make a good frame. If I make the portraits tinier, there would be new place to fill, which would be against my concept. There is a lot space still left over. (but I also want the obsidian to shine through.) I hope most of your ideas for buttons/the frames/ where the buttons should be are solved. (see, they are even less shiny)

Thank you for the stamina info. I forgot about that. Still I think the "red flood" is the best way to represent the left space before death. If your stamina is at its end or your character is unconcious the portrait also could show that (thats where an animated/changed Portrait comes into play). The buttons next to the log could really be arranged around the pause wheel. sounds good. lets see if I get that layers rearranged... The size of the buttons should be conditional to the resulution. I didn't do that in full screen. anything to the c-shape to the right?

In this case, if you want to intimidate, your party would have to check if they are intimidating enough. I like that. You could hoard intimidating or smart attributes in your group for example to rule that skill checks in your way. So you dont have to push your charisma 19+ paladin forward whenever you want to get things for sure

[code= I said I wanted to post my "aesthetic" version. Here it is. The buttons don't look good yet. Didn't want to draw my own. On the right side of the Portraits is a lot of lost space, but I like the background of the UI here. The lower left edge doesn't have to have a UI background there, it bares every function. But I also didn't know what to put there else. The log would seem too spacey if drawn in length. Maybe you guys know. I kept with the Symbols of the menu. I think they are an important part of the charme. But a new high res look wouldn''t be bad (without changing the symbol of course) I combined the "red flood" in the pictures with a blue bar on the outside. I like it more in this way although the portrait looks tainted with that red - a wonderful psychological way to represent pain. Still I don't know what that blue bar should have as function. Please don't let it be mana or such. the knobs in front of the portraits are placeholder for signs which show the buffs and maluses on the character. I hope someone of you like it. It's not supposed to be 100% functional.