Sacred_Path
-
Posts
1328 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
1
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Everything posted by Sacred_Path
-
So players who keep lengthy lists with the prices of all items in all locations and who then seek out particular locations whenever physically possible will accumulate more gold/ better items and have an easier time throughout the game. Absolutely. I personally think that's horrible though, but calm your **** guys, I won't repeat myself!
-
Blargh I'm not completely ruling out that there is something truly useful about regional pricing, why are you? So let me rephrase the question: do you think there is anything useful about regional pricing other than for immersion purposes? Because if not, then yes, we just have different subjective preferences. I'll always be an advocate for at least trying to balance all elements of an RPG as well as possible, but I know some people don't derive joy from that. So as long as they don't speak out for putting it into a game I'm actually interested in, I don't have any problems with their opinion.
-
needs a "none" box My answer is no across the board. I've been wondering lately if P:E maybe just should have stayed with the "core four" classes; while I tend towards saying "no", I don't think the game would have been any worse for it.
-
ay papi
-
macman, you're obviously a person with special needs and a lot of suppressed anger. Have you tried posting on the Codex? You see, what I'm missing in your post too, as I've also said above, is a good argument as to why regional pricing should even be in any RPG. I suggest someone should try to make a good point for that so that there is actually a basis for discussion. I've played RPGs with price differences, and I've never enjoyed them, and there isn't a single thing about my play experience that I can point at and say, "you know, that sword being twice as pricey in the first town than it was in the starting village? That really made my day/ challenged me profoundly". You find my example of you scrambling towards one specific town unrealistic; but if regional pricing is in the game, this will/ should be more or less subtly signaled to the player ("GOODS MIGHT JUST BE CHEAPER WHERE THE RAW MATERIALS FOR SAID GOODS ARE HARVESTED"). Obviously, this will have an influence on where you go - unless the game is completely linear, in which case I would see even less of a need for such a mechanic. I didn't say your party would try to reach a place that's so far off you can imagine they aren't of a sufficient level to reach it; that's your conjecture, not mine. What I did imply is that, even if that location is somewhat close, you may very likely run into some combat, with all the ressource-sapping that entails. And it's a simplistic example, but not for the fact that there aren't any others coming to mind.
-
You're a much better troll when you're trying to be serious btw. "I want a realistic economy with regional pricing where you're just flooded with gold!"
-
This is going to Derpes fast so I'm out until then.
-
K. Every class, but not every build, can fill any combat role I guess. I forgot that there are no dump stats.
-
It improves the player's experience of the world unless you are a mindless drone who thinks that money only exists to show how much progress your character has made, in which case GTFO from RPGs pl0x. Thx for playing, but you didn't answer the question. Do you realize how subjective immersion is? 1. you claim that regional pricing works exactly like all other mechanics that create immersion 2. I ask you for examples 3. you claim that comparing regional pricing to other mechanics is irrelevant Stop stealing both of our lifetimes plz. Suggestion: try making a good case for regional pricing in games rather than trying to attack criticism of the same (at which you're unsuccesful).
-
Have they actually said this? What I've read is that i.e. rogues are optimized for massive damage to single targets, not crowd control or tanking
-
K, so you want a more realistic economy for the sake of realism and without it affecting the player much. Plz explain to me why this is a good idea and how you can justify spending ressources on it for implementation/ balancing. Also, justify making a gameworld intended for sandbox games in, say, a game as linear as Icewind Dale. I've asked for examples here, and I still do. One counter-example should suffice: I feel immersed when a gameworld's religions are well developed. Religion does not usually affect balance and it doesn't cause you to become stuck. Herp derp. I countered this on many levels, just recently as I said when the game is hard, it does force players to optimize, it's not their choice.
-
whose accent is sexier?
-
This would indubitably be very bad design, and I don't think anyone would defend it. Regional pricing is bad in games, and it is being defended ITT. You have a lot of factors there. In your example, occasional purchases/ sales might be alright. But if the game allows for a lot of loot hoarding, 10% could be a lot, enough to "compel". Which the OP wants to blame entirely on people being OCD about stuff, while I say that if the game is challenging (as it arguably should be), all players will (have to) submit to this. As I have already said, you could simulate economy for the sake of simulating economy, without it affecting the player much. This would however, arguably, be a waste of ressources. "single player games don't need balance/ power cap", I've seen that before, and it never makes sense. It's an opinion you can subscribe to if you think games should fellate the player, but me and the OP seem to actually, in theory, be in agreement that this shouldn't be the case. I'm not going to hold two of these ludicrous conversations at the same time BTW
-
Ah, but you wanted some semblance of a realistic economy. Actually, that's the one reason why you'd want regional pricing at all, am I correct? So you shouldn't flood the player with so much gold that it becomes meaningless. Again, I'm not talking about P:E. That train has left the station. Like I also said, with only two cities, while "regional" pricing would have been a bit easier to balance, it would also seem like a waste of time IMO. It's not going to be a huge sandbox style game. Uh, please tell me exactly what "general effect" it is that you're hoping to achieve with regional pricing. You have mentioned two things in passing: "immersion" (or make-believe) and "surprise"/"wonder". It's a pretty far fetch to claim that all mechanics that can contribute to immersion have the exact same effect as regional pricing; nay, it's ludicrous. Same goes for "wonder".
-
trial and error is involved in ferreting out the best trading opportunities in your idea as well. I'm not suggesting that you need to start over because you've once run into stronger enemies because games are usually not designed in such a way that you could get stuck in a rut there. I fear that a game with an arbitrary economy as you suggest could lead to this though. Without advance knowledge of the "good deals", you're likely to run out of funds, which means a dead end in quite a few RPGs. When you're out of funds and possibly badly equipped (not as well equipped as you could have been had you gotten better deals!) and in some place surrounded by wilderness, that is usually bad news (brick wall). In the case of simply going to the wrong area, you can possibly go somewhere else where it's more appropriate to be at your level. You aren't stuck (unless you've made bad choices in building your characters, as I admitted).
-
Reloading a battle because you didn't have a strategy the first time or your plan didn't work? Confirmed to be fun for most RPGers. Reloading because you entered an area where enemies were too tough at your level? Considered ok. But starting a playthrough to gather information about prices and stores so you can then start over with this pertinent information? Probably not supported by most. Surprise and wonder are key to RPGs (the first time through anyway), yes. But you can have plenty of that without regional pricing.
-
Not enough hand-holding for your tastes, then? I guess that outcome means you learn your lesson for credulously trying to optimize the game, eh? Maybe the next time that you only have enough money to buy 1.85 swords at the base price you'll be wise enough to not expect that you will have enough money for 4 swords in some far-off town. Or perhaps the lesson is that there's a reason why merchants tend to avoid trading along dangerous routes. Or maybe this could even be a lesson in opportunity costs, who knows? What would you prefer? For the last time, this isn't a "brick wall"; it's merely yet another degree of challenge to add to the rest. I'm sorry that the consequences of navigating "accidentally" frustrate you, but I don't see how that's a problem with the proposed mechanic. Hah. Terrible design != no hand holding. What you must allow for is the player making informed decisions. Which cannot be made if you know prices may vary around the world but you don't know by how much in what location. In this case, more information = better. There's no lesson to be learned in my example; because for all you know, the prices may still vary elsewhere, and you won't know any specifics until you've been everywhere and have written down everything. The only lesson you've learned is that fighting off wolves with only bows may be barely possible but it's a really bad choice. There is more to learn (maybe it would have been easier with those 1.85 swords?), but again, you don't need regional pricing in the mix to make things even more uncertain.
-
I'll try =) Great! BTW I really liked your early concept drawing of a female Godlike, I thought the proportions were just spot on for several reasons.
-
Steel swords may be cheaper in a mining town, ok (may). That's not enough to make an informed decision. It may be worth buying no swords but only bows and leather armor for everyone until you get to that town because the swords may be dirt cheap. I barely make it there, fighting off beasts in melee with a bow is kinda difficult. Surprise, the swords are cheaper, but even spending all gold you can only afford 2 of them! Awsum. Better make the same hassling trip back to starting town, with 2 swords this time but without healing potions (you ran through em fighting off wolves). This is not optimizing numbers. I also think exploration is important. Therefore, I think players shouldn't run into brick walls due to regional pricing. The few times where I accidentally end up in a location where I can get the goods I want cheaper don't offset the frustration of those times where things are too expensive IMO.
-
It's not as simple as optimizing numbers on the screen. This may be true for character creation: if you RTFM and it gives you a good idea of what the attributes do, and what the skills do, and what talents you can unlock, and if you maybe played around a bit with the game, then you should be able to create characters that don't suck. It's your responsibility. Though it should be noted that even this is somewhat remedied in P:E because there will be no dump stats, for one. You can't screw your fighter up because you made him intelligent rather than strong. Regional pricing can have far-reaching consequences and you won't be able to judge things at all until you've actually played through the game. Where do you get what prices for what goods and how do you get there? What will getting there entail? Solving certain quests, facing random attacks? By what creatures will you be beset, and when will you be strong enough? Is the cost in things like consumables and resurrection worth the trouble of getting there? I haven't heard an answer from you as to how you want to avoid players having to keep lists of goods in different locations. And no, you don't just make your own adventure. Gold is a commodity you need to manage in most RPGs. Running out of gold because you "chose your own adventure" (i.e. you went to places with high prices, sucker!) isn't exactly great.
-
I haven't really suggested that this apply to services- in comparison to goods- although it is conceivable. Eh, we were talking about repair prices (see quote). But ok, goods: you already have quite a few decisions to make concering purchases even without regional pricing. What to buy, in what quantities, for which character and when. Would it be advisable to add different pricing to this mix? I din't know we were talking about P:E specifically. Seems a little late, and there probably won't be many hubs in the game (we know of two cities so far). Uh, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Players feel compelled to do side quests because the benefits make them attractive and advsiable considering the obstacles in the main quest. Plus, what compels you is your wish to see all of the content of the game. This is a motivation in itself. Is it also a motivation enough to engage in a trading minigame just because you can? For me personally, no. Different difficulty levels may require different approaches, to stay with your "false dichotomy" example. If you really get an advantage by collecting and selling trash loot, then players of all kinds - not only the OCD crowd - will be compelled to do it if they feel the game is tough. Same for regional pricing - yes, on normal or easy difficulty, it may not bother a player at all, though we have to consider that a lot of people play games only once and will therefore try to get things "right" the first time through, which would in this case include trying to game the trading mechanics.
-
Several things: 1. Pickpocketing was not inherently denoted as evil, since even paladins could travel with capable thieves, and as long as the stealing was succesful you didn't lose any reputation points. I think you didn't even lose reputation when you were caught, only if you killed the (hostile) victim or other NPC's (such as guards). 2. Outright killing people in most cases resulted in reputation drops and was therefore not advisable, interestingly it was less advisable for evil characters (they had lower starting reputation) than it was for good characters. Too low a reputation broke the game because of NPC's being inherently hostile/ Flaming Fist mercenaries spawning. As a whole, like I said, you were just making life hard on yourself by going evil. This depends heavily on the design. In many games with durability weapons and armor actually break, therefore you don't really have a choice other than to repair things (unless you're flooded with these items or buying new things is cheaper, which would be some pretty weak design in both cases). This could have worked better if durability works like it was suggested for P:E before being pulled. You could decide wether you go with a "blunted" sword or if you really need it to be in pristine condition. But again, you still have a choice to make there even without differing repair prices complicating things further. Eh, regional pricing is exactly one thing that gets in the way of "casually breezing through". If gold is limited enough, you will want to compare prices constantly. This is only limited to OCD players if the price difference is not significant, but if you actually have to carefully manage your funds it will slow the game's pace considerably because you don't want to get stuck with too little funds at some point in the game.
-
I generally like background traits, which usually combine a small description of the character's past with some mechanical bonus. I think multiple starting locations needlessly complicate things especially on the lower levels. An open world with one starting location seems sufficient. But macman, I kinda like your oddball approach to computer roleplaying and your ineffectual dreaming. You're like a condescending Peter Molyneux.
- 55 replies
-
- 1
-
-
- backstory
- background
- (and 2 more)
-
Does Polina have a sexy Eastern European accent like the chick from Legends of Dawn? If so, you should totally have exploited that during the kickstarter like LoD did.
-
I think, as I said, you have too simplistic an idea of the process. Example: Baldur's Gate 1. Prices did not differ regionally (not noticeably), but they did differ depending on your reputation. Hence playing super lawful stupid good was ended up being vastly easier than playing evil. Well, roleplaying evil anyway (never tried playing an evil party with a high reputation). So, the difference in pricing wasn't a good idea, unless it was the dev's declared goal was to punish players for taking the evil approach. Significant differences in regional pricing may not be a good idea, unless you want to punish players for following a certain direction on the world map over another. #1: repair prices differ insignificantly, therefore making it irrelevant where you repair your weapons and armor. #2: repair prices differ significantly, therefore compelling you to always seek out those places where it's cheap to do. What do you hope to achieve by this? If the difference isn't significant in the long run, why implement it at all? If it is significant but your game isn't designed for backtracking (i.e. world map too large), what do you hope to achieve by that? Rewarding the player for dumb luck (oh, my weapons broke near the town with the cheapest repair prices! Wheeee!) or having him keep giant lists with all commodities in all cities?
