Fluffle

So many negative reviews Making me sad I hope the reviewers will at least consider updating their reviews when Obsidian has fixed the bugs...

Look what I found... The Backer Recognition Log!!! Now, before you read it, please be aware of one thing. Obsidian was given a free pass to change the backer recognition lines after their liking so that they would fit better into the game. And they did adjust the entries. In most cases, the meaning of your recognition lines is still there. But they changed the wording and sometimes added a bit or left a bit away. I hope you are not upset about that. For me, the most important thing about the backer recognition lines was always that they'd fit into the game. I would never want them to break the 4th wall. So I stressed to Obsidian that they are free to adjust the entries, yes, even without consulting us first. Also be aware, if you go and read that log, you will be spoiled the name of the captain of the Black Isle Bastards. You may not want to do that... So read the log at your own risk Black Isle Bastards Backer recognition lines.

Some more Steam reviews...

Omg really??? I need to see that! Please! Screenshot, screenshot, screenshot! But everything in spoiler tags of course. This thread is in the non-spoiler part of the forum!

My current discussion here may seem off-topic. That's why I am going to stop now. We can continue this per PM or in a new thread with a different topic. However, I don't think it was completely off-topic. Romances in video games come with expectations, hopes, dreams, wishes and sadly also with entitlement and a huge potential to be disappointed. And everyone will find their own way to deal with such disappointment. I would just like to ask that some of us stop accusing Obsidian of trying to trick their backers with intent. If you feel mistreated by Obsidian then try to be the better person. Try not to answer that by mistreating Obsidian in return. Try to be open to the possibility that they did not hurt/disappoint/mislead you with intent.

It was NOT definitive. It was open-ended and vague. Why would you spend money then? You knew it was not definitive. You knew it was open-ended and vague. So you knew there was no certainty in that regard. You knew there was no guarantee. So you knew there was a risk. And based on that knowledge you decided to spend money on it. And now you are blaming Obsidian for that. You took a gamble. You lost. But you don't want to take any responsibility for taking that gamble in the first place. You're comparing the ending of the final product to the marketing of said product. Nice try, but I'm not buying. ...Although I technically did. My problem in this current debate is, that Obsidian is being accused of INTENTIONALLY misleading people into giving them money. In some countries that is a serious accusation and a crime actually. Obsidian is being accused of having committed a crime. In some countries that accusation is so serious in fact, that someone who makes it could be sued for defamation if it cannot be proven. If we could take a step down in this debate and say we were disappointed. Okay. Or that we would have wished for more information during the campaign. Okay. But to accuse Obsidian to deliberately mislead their own backers. That's huge in my eyes. I actually wonder if such an accusation is in accordance with the Site Rules here. And if you are truly so upset and feel so betrayed then I wonder: What is left for you to do? What are you doing here? What will you be doing? You feel betrayed. How are you going to react? If you feel cheated for your money, should you not ask for refunds? If you feel Obsidian committed a crime, should you not consider legal actions? You are on Obsidian's own forum. You are a guest here on these boards. And that is how you treat your host? Could you at least consider to drop the "intentional"? Could you at least maybe admit that you are at least partially responsible for how you spend your money?

It was NOT definitive. It was open-ended and vague. Why would you spend money then? You knew it was not definitive. You knew it was open-ended and vague. So you knew there was no certainty in that regard. You knew there was no guarantee. So you knew there was a risk. And based on that knowledge you decided to spend money on it. And now you are blaming Obsidian for that. You took a gamble. You lost. But you don't want to take any responsibility for taking that gamble in the first place.

Yeah exactly. Obsidian did not make any guarantees that Edér would be a romance option. They did also not make any guarantees that he would NOT be a romance option. So one couldn't have known in advance. Yet some people still donated money to the campaign anyway. Even though they were aware that both options were possible. And now that the option that they dislike has been realized they feel betrayed and intentionally misled by Obsidian. And my standpoint is this: Obsidian is NOT responsible for someone spending money on a product of which they didn't know in advance if they'd like it or not. If someone didn't know for sure and YET spend money on it anyway that is their risk and their responsibility. Someone's trust or good faith in Obsidian does not bind Obsidian to make their product after that someone's liking and demands. Because, exactly as you say, donating to a crowd funding campaign is not like a commission for an artist.

You admit that a crowd funding campaign needs trust. But why does it need trust? If you knew all facts you wouldn't need any trust. You need the trust for the very reason that you don't know all the facts. But that is the very thing you are complaining about: That you didn't know the facts. That is exactly what a crowdfunding campaign is about. Spending money on something you don't know everything about. And that is a risk. Actually this incident should show you what kind of risk this is.

Yes, because unless you have money to waste it is far too valuable to spend on a product about which you do NOT know the definitive facts. A crowd funding campaign is NOT about definitive facts. You only get the hard facts after the game comes out. Only then can you know for sure what is in the game and what is not in the game. Only then can you make the decision of buying a product of which you know for certain what it contains and what it does not contain. You do not know that in a crowdfunding campaign. It requires TRUST, yes. Obviously your trust was disappointed. So you'll have to make the decision if you would support another crowd funding campaign by Obsidian or not. We seem to have a different idea of what trust during a crowdfunding campaign means. For me, it means that I do NOT know all the facts about the product and DESPITE that I spend money on it. I am spending money on a product of which I cannot be certain that I will like it. That's almost crazy if you think of it and can only be justified with A LOT OF TRUST. But that trust is no guarantee that I'm going to like (every aspect of) the product. Not at all.

As I just stated, crowd funding is about good faith. You are trusting them to deliver a product with your money. To sit there and say that people have no right to feel slighted because they were mislead is even harder to fathom than my thought process. The issue is not that they failed to deliver. The issue is that there was no explanation given for why. Crowd funding cannot work if there is no trust between the funder and the funded. How can companies expect to get funding without making people feel as if they can be trusted with their money? But people already explained in this thread. The devs were very careful to speak of relationships only NOT of romances. Also they said characters whose authors would not feel it, would not get a romance. They also stressed that not everyone would be satisfied/pleased with the choices of the romances. And based on those statements people got their hopes up that Edér must be romanceable. Otherwise Obsidian would intentionally be misleading people. Yes, that is really not easy for me to understand. In any case, I find it very unlikely that we reach a common ground. I think the only thing we could maybe agree on is that in future you should not join a crowd funding by Obsidian anymore if you feel they are misleading people intentionally?

For me, personally, I like it when they do NOT announce in advance who the romantic interests are and who has which sexuality. Because then I tend to put too much weight on that one aspect of a character. A character is so much more than just this one part of them. And I don't want to reduce them to their sexuality or romance-ability only. But I admit that I do that to a certain degree if they announce in advance who the romances are. This might actually make me miss/neglect interesting other characters who happen to not be romanceable or happen to be "incompatible with my mainchar's sexuality".

So, Obsidian never promised a romance with Edér. But that is not the problem. The problem apparently is that they never specifically excluded a romance with him. They knew he was a popular choice for a romance, they left the possibility open and by that they mislead people into spending money on something that they would not deliver. Wow. Alright. I'm trying to understand this kind of process of thoughts. In that case I would say, if you think that way, you should probably not join a crowd funding campaign. Then you really should wait until the game is out and buy it based on hard facts. So you know what you pay for before buying it. You wouldn't feel betrayed then.

Slightly mean-spirited and spiteful. Seemingly misleading people intentionally. That is not what they get for not including Edér. But for not being transparent about it. Okay. Then I seem to have misunderstand the problem. Is that really the actual problem here? So if the devs explained their decision to not offer Edér as a romance option, it would be okay then? As I said earlier the devs did once say they wouldn't offer romances for characters whose author didn't feel it. But I guess you'd have the specific author of Edér come here and explain thoroughly why Edér isn't available (despite so many people wanting that). I guess more transparency would not hurt. And if it would contribute to put some people's mind at ease, why not?

I apologize to everyone for having contributed in derailing the thread a bit. I hope no harm was done Of all the romances I'm looking forward to Tekehu's the most. I'm looking forward to meeting him in the game

And here is where the "agenda" kicks it. This is what the game will make you think about. If a man falls in love with a woman who happens to be in the body of a man. Does that make the first man gay? Is he supposed to like other men because he loves a woman inside a man's body? Oh boy... I need actual confirmation on this first before I continue. This is not worth it, if it's all based on speculation. I still hope it's true though! I don't understand how you could just pass off blatantly contradictory writing that practically retcons itself as people thinking the devs just have an agenda or whatever. You're either trolling or you're a major Obsidian fanboy. If you see me that way, why would you address me? If I was a troll then talking to me would be troll feeding. If I was an Obsidian fanboy I would be blind to any criticism at all. So there would be no point in talking to me about something Obsidian may have done wrong. There is no need to get on a personal level here. Please don't make assumptions about me as I won't make any about you. Let's be in peace.

Yep, it's a thing. Spoilering this for wall of text purposes, also I MAY me wrong with naming some of the lines (they aren't specified in the text) This is a direct copy paste mind you, all I've fixed is the formatting. Omg omg omg omg omg! This is too good! AHAHAHAHA! I love it!!! Damn, I can't wait to see this in the game!

@Witness41920 Before anyone thinks that I am the one calling the devs having an agenda: No that is not what I am doing. I was merely speculating that it will not take a lot of time before some people do. And I am NOT one of them. To me the term "agenda" has no value or meaning anymore. Some people use it as a place holder, a label, for "something I don't like". Everyone is supposed to know that an agenda is something inherently bad. And when you call something an "agenda" you can express your dislike or contempt for something without having to bother to explain why. Again, I am NOT doing that. I fear, other people might start doing that, based on my experiences on the topic of romances in video games throughout the decades. I personally would welcome and cherish a romance between Edér and Iselmyr.

@LittleKestrel you're not making that up, right? To me it sounds too good and too funny to be true. Damn.

If I remember correctly the devs said that they did romances for the NPCs that the respective authors felt "right" to do. Actually I respect that. And I respect it all the more because I think they show backbone by not giving in to "popular demand". How do you think a romance with a character would turn out to be if the author of that character didn't feel it at all? And then he potentially goes and hooks up with someone who is at best an occasional consciousness in a man's body, so he was either lying to the watcher about his reasons (which is a mean thing to do to someone you respect) or he has been inconsistently written, both of which some people may see as narratively frustrating. And here is where the "agenda" kicks it. This is what the game will make you think about. If a man falls in love with a woman who happens to be in the body of a man. Does that make the first man gay? Is he supposed to like other men because he loves a woman inside a man's body? Oh boy... I need actual confirmation on this first before I continue. This is not worth it, if it's all based on speculation. I still hope it's true though!

Whaaaaat. Okay, I'm perfectly fine with Eder not being an option for the Watcher, but THIS (if true) really does seem like trolling on the devs' part. What the heck. It's in the game data! I dunno the rules on image linking on this forum, but I can screenshot all the Eder/Iselmyr stuff and chuck it in an Imgur gallery or give you the directions to the data file itself for you to read if you need the proof. Omg, I love this! That's hilarious! If that is true, kudos to the devs! And I find that a very interesting way of exploring some romantic themes which better not be labeled. If you labeled that with terms from our world that would create a lot of hate and outrage. But to explore that possibility in Deadfire in this way. If that is really true, then that's a huge WOW for me. I would really love and respect that, that the devs would (dare) go there. Think about it, Edér falling for a woman in a man's body. Just the thought of how revolting this could be for some. And you can already hear the word in your mind. If this is true, it's just a matter of "when" not "if" the devs will be accused of having (yet another)... AGENDA

I don't know. I found the overland map in Storm of Zehir to be quite more lively and immersive. Yes it does remind me strongly of Storm of Zehir but I think I consider the Deadfire overland map actually a downgrade from the Storm of Zehir one. Still I'm very happy that they brought this kind of overland map back! I have wished for it to come back since Storm of Zehir!