Hiro Protagonist II

Pointing out Kickstarter and AAA funded games is irrelevant, a red herring, lame excuse and basically deflecting what amounts to some journalists in a video who are biased towards AAA games and don't care about Kickstarter games. Instead of them coming out and saying, 'we don't care', they give lame duck excuses. Especially when the rest of the game reporting world can't wait to report these Kickstarter games as is the case with Pillars. In fact, we've seen reporters who are eager and itching to report on Pillars. eg. Escapist Magazine, PC World. So why is it that a lot of reporters, a lot of websites over the last two years and current gaming journalists can report and want to report on Kickstarter games and yet these guys in the video says it's 'weird' and 'all too hard'? It doesn't make sense that the industry can report on Kickstarter games and then we see one group of reporters in a video who finds it all too hard and one of them says they're glad they didn't have to cover any Kickstarter games. I'd rather take the industry side's track record on this one.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/conferences/e32014/11739-Johns-Five-Favorites-of-E3-2014 So I'm guessing we might hear something Wednesday, maybe?! On the forum, he goes onto say: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.852905-Johns-Five-Favorites-of-E3-2014

Objective? You're not being objective. All you're doing is making excuses for bad journalism and bad journalists in general. You're also missing the fact that readers of these sites may not know anything about these Kickstarter games or PoE at all and don't have access to these updates or not where to look. And if Kickstarter games present information to the populous then how come the Kickstarter website hides updates from non-backers on a lot of games? It doesn't present information to the populace when the updates are hidden. The fact that I might be able read about a particular game from a gaming website or magazine, with a summary about the game is far better than searching the internet to find and read all the updates for a game that I haven't backed and not know about. What's more logical. a) I read a gaming website and come across a Kickstarter game I know nothing about, think to myself, that sounds great and then look for the game. Reporter has done their job. b) I read a gaming website, never read about a Kickstarter game. No nothing about it. And then try and find a game I know nothing about? Reporter refuses to report the game because it's a Kickstarter game, because they don't know how to write about a Kickstarter game. It should be irrelevant if the game is Kickstarted. And I wouldn't want to read all the updates of this game I know nothing about. I only want a summary of what the game is. Not the audio or VFX of the game and how it's being implemented. This is being marketed to people who haven't heard or know very little about the game. This is not being marketed to the fans who reads every update. So it doesn't matter if the reporter reports new stuff or not. It's reporting the game to people who don't know anything about it. Let that sink in for a moment. It's irrelevant if the reporter knows or doesn't know they're reporting new stuff. They get an interview with the developer and report the game. The developer tells the reporter all this cool stuff and features. The reporter then reports all this cool stuff and features. That's it. This is marketed to people who don't know about the game. Presumably, the reason why they went to E3 in the first place. To market the game and get journalists to write up what they see and is being told to them by the developers. Whether that's new content, features, or anything else that's in the game. i.e. report the game. A fact you seem to forget. And you haven't even watched the video? WTF is wrong with you. You're arguing and excusing these journalists in your first post by saying things like 'to be fair' and now you haven't even watched the video. Seriously, instead of jumping into threads and debating against people without any knowledge of what's being discussed, at least watch the video before jumping to your usual arguing against forum posters stance.

To be fair? So you're making excuses for them as well. You're missing the fact that Obsidian kept stuff under wraps and behind closed doors so the journalists would have something new to write about. And this is new stuff that the backers don't know about. And it is lame excuses when you have journalists from various websites who can write about Kickstarter games and PoE, eg. Red Bull which surprised a few people on this forum including myself and yet these journalists in the video says it's all too hard. Why is it that a lot of journalists can do it which we've seen over the last 2 years and then you have some video where these journalists can't, find it 'weird' and too hard? And you missed the fact it's not about 'new', it's about reporting the game. So if you don't have something new, you can't report the game? LMAO. What a lame arse excuse. Reporting the game in the mainstream gaming media is what's it's all about to get the game out there. Marketing. Not necessarily reporting something new. Because the target audience for these sites and magazines are their readers, not necessarily the fans of the game. And fans of the game may not have been necessarily following all the updates. So those fans who read these articles from gaming sites or magazine might be surprised to read something that they've either haven't read in an update or just plain forgotten and don't remember reading it. So it's another lame arse excuse when they say 'fans are in on it' when there are fans who haven't read every update and know everything about the game. They just need to report the game like good little reporters, instead of making excuses. A good journalist will be able to report a game regardless if it's AAA, independent, Kickstarter, or whatever. A bad journalist is one who complains that because it's not AAA, it's all too hard.

Firstly, you're right in that they don't care about these games but not because they can't write anything new. And it's not about writing new stuff. That's just a lame excuse they're using. Also, they are not writing the articles for the fans of the game when they write articles for games in general. They are writing articles about a game for their readers regardless if they are fans of the game or not. There's a difference. And it's marketing to those who haven't heard about the game or followed the development. The Red Bull write up is a good example. Nothing really new to the fans, but a well written and good article to their readers. The Red Bull writers can do it, so why can't the guys in the video do it as well? Because they're clueless. So it's not so much important about writing something new. You just have to write about it and get the word out there. Again, marketing. Secondly, there are people on this forum who all agreed that it was a good move for Obsidian to go to E3 with PoE to promote the game to more players and get that promotion and ultimately sales. But now it's all too hard for some reporters because it's a 'Kickstarter Game'. And then you have some people on this forum agreeing with the reporters. WTF?? A reporter can't do their job because it's a 'Kickstarter game' because the fans know all about it, but can do their job when it's a AAA game even though the fans of that AAA game have been following the development of that AAA game. That doesn't make any sense at all. You have some reporters picking and choosing which games they want to review and when it comes to Kickstarter games, they give lame excuses why they can't do it. And some people on this forum accept their lame arse excuses. Poor incompetent journalism at it's finest.

Again. Watch the video. Clearly you're not watching it all. All three don't know who to write about them, they said it was weird, they've never heard of the games, and one was glad he didn't cover any and all are in agreement. If they are game journalists and don't know how to write about a game because it's a 'Kickstarter' game? That shouldn't matter. The fact is it's still a GAME. They also gave lame excuses like 'the fans are in on it' so I don't know what to write. Excuse me? The fans were following games like Diablo 3 and yet they could write about that game. But they find it hard to write about Kickstarter games because the fans are now in on it? It's those sort of lame excuses that try and justify their incompetence. Also, only one didn't tell about their opinion probably because they had now idea how to, not two people. But the one who didn't say anything (the girl) was nodding her approval and agreement with the other three. She didn't have to say anything, her body language gave her away. You really need to watch and let it sink in. You're just lapping up what they say and making excuses for their incompetence. There's no reason why other sites can write about Kickstarter games which we've all seen and these people in the video can't. Keep making excuses for them Elerond.

No. Watch the video. The reporters don't know how to write articles, they don't know what to do, they're too difficult and one of them said he's glad he didn't have to do any for the whole E3. They also give lame excuses because now they're being 'challenged'. This is all new to them. They've been in their bubble doing the same thing year after year and Kickstarter isn't something new that's popped up in the last 6 months. If anything, they've been avoiding a part of the game industry being Kickstarter, especially the one on the end who said he's glad he didn't have to cover any. He comes across as a person who is actively avoiding Kickstarter games and that's just plain bad journalism. As I said, game journalists need to change with the times and those three just showed they have no idea what to do, hence their incompetence.

source And as I said in that post as well, this isn't representative of all of the press, but it gives us some minor insight on what goes on in their heads as well, The point: We're not going to be very different from the press when the news hit. What that shows me is how incompetent and out of touch the gaming press is today. Don't know how to write up a story about a Kickstarter game? Kickstarter games are difficult? They need to get with the times.

I think it would've been good for Obsidian to have created an E3 trailer with some gameplay footage like the teaser from last year and showed us this trailer. That may have alleviated some of the outrage. And then show us a more polished extended video of the same game play footage in a couple of months.

I was talking more about the media going to Obsidian's office in the last month or so. There wasn't an uproar over the last few weeks.

Why wasn't there an uproar when the media went to Obsidian's office to see the game? Nobody seemed to mind then. I only ask because there's been more than one occasion where the media has had access to the game. No raging from posters on the forum and 'why is the media seeing this and not the backers!!' Trying to understand why some media is okay and some isn't.

Wasn't it the same with South Park? There was a teaser but no gameplay footage for quite some time. I don't recall seeing gameplay footage for the game prior to release as any leaked footage always seemed to be pulled from youtube. Maybe this is how Obsidian is now operating, no gameplay footage until they feel it's ready to be shown. E3 being the exception.

I get a sense of irony in this thread considering this is an update thread on the whole game; alpha to beta, area design, environmental art, systems design, UI, character art, narrative, programming, VFX including a youtube video on one of these effects, audio... but it seems a lot of people aren't so much interested in this and are more interested in an unfinished, unpolished gameplay video shown at E3.

There are backers that don't understand this and will comment on why it doesn't look right.

There are backers / non-backers that don't understand this and will comment on why it doesn't look right. Even when told it's not the finished product. So yes, some backers couldn't understand this is a work in progress. We saw this with the teaser trailer which was pre-alpha and the amount of complaints it received. I'd rather wait a few months for the demo gameplay myself to see how it'll look like in the finished game.

Call me a cynic but controversy sells. I can't help but feel some websites will pick up anything that's controversial and run with it. And then do follow up stories a day or two later to keep up the frenzy. It's like sharks biting and they whip them up into a frenzy even more. And then we have a corner of the internet nerd raging about it on both sides. In a few months time, this will all be forgotten and something else will be in the headlines. Oh and Bruce how many social justice issues are you still championing over the last 18 months or 3 years? Do you still put in time to do all those social justice issues or is some just fleeting and you move onto the next issue.

I'm waiting for the day when they put a male lead in Tomb Raider. Same with the Syberia games. We men should be able to play as a man and it's discrimination not to include a male avatar.

Pretty sure his point was to be facetious. Seems the humour has been lost somewhere.

I wouldn't mind seeing a before and after screen shot of what these artwork passes look like.

As others have said, the waves and sound don't match up as it plays. It does at the start and then doesn't as it continues. I hope that's fixed at a later date. Otherwise great update.

Is that fact, or speculation? If it's a fact, it's disappointing. Not what i'd classify as really huge, simply a big village or small town. I can understand the disappointment. I was expecting a city like Baldur's Gate or Athkatla in size. In fact, the cities in those games were referred to as big cities in the KS and the 3.5mil stretch goal was going to be a Big Big City 2. It appears the Big Big City 2 is about half the size of Baldurs Gate and Athkatla. Lets hope the size scope matters.

I agree. I don't know of any company that would show their games design from concept, to pitch, to the multitude of different development stages, the distribution of the game, and much more. No other company has shown more transparency than Obsidian.

Seems Obsidian are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Also, I feel a lot of people are expecting a certain type of game and when it's released, those people may be disappointed with choices that have been made with different aspects, mechanics or design of the game. We've already seen those choices divide the community. I wouldn't be surprised if the finished product does as well. If anything, it's been a fun wild ride watching this go from concept to finished product.

BG2 did that already. I recently did a play through of BG2 and did the bare minimum crit-path to Spellhold. After I came out from the Underdark, I went back and did all the side quests. The Temple Ruins were filled with Liches. It got ridiculous when nearly every encounter in the Temple Ruins on your way to the Shadow Dragon is a party of liches. Not only was it easy to counter them due to having come across them earlier on the crit-path, the xp rewards were quite high. If anything, it broke immersion the first time because it didn't make any sense to have that many liches in one dungeon. As it turned out the levelling was better due to doing this later with the better xp rewards, and arguably game breaking by exploiting it for those higher encounter xp rewards. I know I'll be doing this again because it was a great way to level up. A great example how you can exploit use encounter scaling. Working as intended. Will there be better rewards for higher level parties on the crit-path than those who do the bare minimum in PoE? Be good to see.

That's what you're doing. And no need to be sorry. No you weren't claiming I used the word 'exact' because I never did. In true Lephys form you give and then argue against an example of your own making. It must be nice to give and argue against examples with yourself. I wouldn't know.