TrashMan
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Everything posted by TrashMan
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By that logic, any loss of civilian life is always going to generate sympathy, thus every loss is in the interest of the side loosing civilians. And thus every side with high civilian casualities is just playing the propaganda war.
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Which is why they were d***. Prolonging the war (and casualties) for their own gain. Japan lost territory there. History repeats itself. The victim becomes the aggressor once it realises it is powerful enough and takes enemy territory for it's own. It's usually makes as "necessary" or some other BS.
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Bulls****. Millions of poeple? There's no way to tell. Japan was already close to the breaking point. A simple blockade was all that was necessary - heck, no even that. If you are defending, then the purpose of the war is to push the enemy out of your territory. Once you cripple the army of the enemy, there is no further need for war. Bombing the nemy to stone age, entering his territory (and taking it away) becasue ti's necessary "to secure peace" is BS. Japan didn't have enough fuel left for even a small fleet. What danger did it presen to the US? None. The US could have just waited it out. But they didn't. And why should palestinian civilians die in droves for the sake of (maybe) a few Israelis?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrPyQFM9LNY
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Embargo probably affects that somewhat. I suppose bunkers and shelters are prohibited as Hamas can use those as well as civilians. I guess the IDF is indeed a force of nature Yup. IIRC; concrete is one of the forbidden imports.
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1) Ya know, I'm not even looking that negatively at hiding the war assets from Israel inside civilian buldings. Ya know why? Because it's the smart thing to do. Israel really didn't leave much room for manouver, given that such assets in the open would be easy to detect and destroy. Israel is still the one with the finger on the trigger when the bombs start dropping, so that's where 99% of the blame lies. Secondly, we only have Israels word that those asses are there to begin with. Every time they blow something up, it's because terrorists are hiding there. 2) Every cent sent to Israel harms Gaza.
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To you, whatever you want to see or hear is obvious, so I'm not surprised. If you wan to peddle your guesses of my feelings and thoughts as facts, that already shows just how "rational" and "not consumed by hate/emotions" you are.
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Numbers so far: 1156 palestinians dead, 6700 injured - EDIT: (??? Now I'm reading around 1700 dead and 9000 injured?) 53 soldiers and 3 civilians dead
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Yes, I'm sure Israel bombing roads, bridges, factories, power plants, water plants, hospitals, etc had NO effect on Gaza whatsoever. Or ya know - taking all the best territory and leaving palestinians with leftovers. Israels moral victory? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :grin: That's the funniest thing I heard in ages!
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I'm sure it has NOTHING to do with the fact that the best land and resources were taken by Israel and that people are stuffed in a small area and that their infrastructure is bombed to hell every few years. Hard work is all that is necessary to achieve prosperity. No other conditions are relevant. Those lazy, dirty palestinians! 13? That a nice, happy, carefree age. I'd love it if it were true. Also, I'd advise against entering a battle of wits with me... I don't like fighting unarmed opponents.
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First, tunnels used for smuggling are under the Egyptian border, the tunnels under the Israeli border are purely for terrorist attacks. Second, humanitarian supplies are not blockaded, only things which could be used for military purposes, which Hamas has been able to obtain anyway so far. Why don't you stop spouting off about things you obviously know nothing about? Becasue there's absolutely NO ONE on the Israeli side that would would smuggle stuff? A tunnel is a tunnel. It's used for whatever is necessary. Secondly, Israel flags almost everything as "possible military use". Fact of the matter is that Gaza is overpopulated, underdeveloped area full of refuges, and it's kept in that state by Israel. So why don't YOU stop spouting about thing you know nothing about?
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Has your incredible bias completely blinded you to the facts? Do you not realize there were something like 30 tunnels dug under the Israeli border, preparing for a huge attack, potentially with thousands of victims, for the fall? Not to mention incessant rocket attacks from Gaza. This is what you call not rocking the boat? Tunnels digged in a blockaded area that is lacking food, water and medicine, and where needed supplies can be brought in via said tunnels? IMPOSSIBLE!
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Redicolous. Of course I do not call Hamas Natzi's, because their actions don't have that much in common with them (aside from being d****), in comparison to Israel. Hamas is hiding it's rockets in houses? Well, geez mr. genius, where else would it hide them? The Gaza strip is already overpopulated as it is, and out in the open, they would be spotted and destroyed. What would be your solution? Leave them to be destroyed? It's not like Isreal doesn't bomb the living s*** out of anything anyway. As you said yourself - "the nature of the war is assymetrical" and "the objective is to win". Yet you expect for the weaker side to line up like gentlemen and say "shoot me". You seem to forget Israel has a LOT more options available than Hamas/palestinians
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Yes. Yes I can. What exactly HAS Israel does that wasn't done for the sole prpose of lessening the foreign outrage or as a smoke-screen from more land-grabbing? 1) The hyp machine nad media manipulation isnt' one-sided. I often hear of accusation of media manipulation because hey show crying/injured children, etc.. But what they are showing IS what happens. And it's not like he pro-Israel side doesn't have it's own spin docors and media manipulators. 2) Holding Israel to a higher standard? Maybe. But if such a higer standard is there, then it is there because of what Israel is supposed to be - a DEMOCRATIC, MODERN state, that follows he convenions and resolutions on human rights AND that because of it's history of almost-genocide SHOULD friggin know better then to ac like natzis themselves. The EXACT same standards applied to everyone? That is unrealistic. So yes, I excpet more from a modern, economically stable and developed nation then I expect from from an unstable region defined by povery and opression.
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Dismissing another persons opinion is totally valid - as long as it's not done out of hand, but after some deliberation. I don't really see how disagreeing makes someone uninteligent or unpleasant or "backward" (that would depend on a lot more), but generally the habit of labeling themselves "progressive", "enlightened", etc.. is common among said "social justice white knights" (I hate using lables since they are so restrictive and generally inaccurate, but for simplicity I will in this case) and insulting the opposition, by handing out opposite labels. "I am progressive, this other guy is a backward neandrethal...you should listen to me and not him. After all, you want to be progressive too, right?" "I am intelligent, he isn't. You don't want to listen to a stupid person, don't you?" "I am fighting for someones right, that is a noble cause. You want to be noble, don't you? Don't be like that oppressive d***. Freedom and liberty and all that jazz!" All of is is so loaded. I feel it disengenious, dishonest and generally poor debating.
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Wonder Woman was always a "meh" superhero for me. But at lest she's way more original that so many of the "insert another superhero name prefix" - boy/girl/woman (in other words, a different age/gendered version of an existing hero)
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When and where? And why is the number of settlements and Israel-held territory still increasing then? Any "good moves" Israel does is just a smokescreen. One step forward, two steps back.
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Depends what you consider a "side". I don't cheer for Hamas, I cheer for Palestinaians. Their victory does not require bloodshed, altough it does require some concessions from Israel. What you fail to realise is the problem of keeping the status quo. Isreal takes land. Israel builds settlements. Plays for time. Time passes. Now you can use the "these people lived on this land for an entire generation, you can't remove them now!" and "forced re-location is evil" argument. Rinse and repeat. Little by little one can take the entire land with that tactic.
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That is the biggest problem on the internet. Everything you write or do does offend someone and then he tries to blame you for it. Political correctness is such a dangerous thing over the internet when you try to push it to people you do not even know except a tweet or forum post. Everyone jumps to conclusion and the social justice mob jumps on board to see the internet world burn once again. Back than you called it Witch hunt. Internet is full of people who have nothing better to do than to look for things to be offended about (often time in others peoples names... social justice white knights indeed.). Everyone should grow a thicker skin. People assume like they have a god-given right to NOT be offended. You don't. Freedom of speech means you will be hearing things you don't like. Learn to deal with it, instead of rising an alarm and demanding that the entire world owes you an apology and everything you don't like should be censored (implicitly or explicitly)
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And Israel is saving exactly whom with land grabs and bombardments?
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If I lived in Gaza, I'd want nothing more than to bomb Israel to non-existence. Heck ,I don't live in Gaza and I'd still want to dismantle that faschist little state (and most of the middle east). You do realize that this sentiment do not offer anything else than further despair, death, carnage and will not help the situation for anyone, do you not? Because you will have to commit ever more horrible acts for that to happen. Violence begets violence and all that. And your solution is what? For palestinans to accept Isreals "mercy"? To live in the worst areas with more rights and territory taken away each day? Just for a hope of someday things getting better? It's in Israels interest to keep palesinians territories an unstable, undeveloped place. As long as the balance of power is like it is, nothing will change. History is written by the victors. Power is power. Laws are irrelevant (as clearly seen in Israels example), as they will be ignored by the powers that be whenever it suits them. If the US dropped Israel like a hot potato, if the palestinians were equal in power...then maybe some real negotiations could be had among the saner heads. As to what and how.... I have no idea. Israelis cannot well abandon Israel after living there for 60 years. Yet the trust is that the creation of Isreal created a crapton of refugees and those people WERE wronged. You cannot get back to how it was before...but some kind of reparations have to be made.
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No, it's not. Probably close to the truth, but claiming to know other peoples thought processes can never be called a fact. Don't get me wrong, Hamas is a bunch of d**** and I'm all for getting rid of them. But Palestinian people will never have peace (as in, real peace with equal right and all that jazz) with Israel as it is now. If I lived in Gaza, I'd want nothing more than to bomb Israel to non-existence. Heck ,I don't live in Gaza and I'd still want to dismantle that faschist little state (and most of the middle east).
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The same goes for you. IT means you assume that Hamas was elected and exists because arabs and jews are in the same areas. Which is redicolous. The reasons for the conflict are more complex and more dep-seated than just that. Just just handwave away the notion of peaceful integration under the pretense that jews and arabs cannot coexist it arab are a majority.
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Right back at you. I'm sure you consider yourself an masterful debater and that your arguments are solid and that it's always the other guy that makes all those fallacies and mistakes. Well, you're wrong. You are doing every single thing you accuse me of. False equalency. That is not the reason Hamas was elected. And you assume you're one of those rational folks and I'm not? Pray tell, when did I ever say the other side was blemeless? Which is why they don't.
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That could be my reply to your every post. Not nice when people nitpick and put words in your mouth, is it? Yes, because Israel is sooooo democratic and law-abiding and tolerant. A bright spot in the "horrible" middle east and those "uncivilized, dirty arabs". Right? *double snort*
