Umberlin

And makes it harder for his or her enemies to walk over rough terrain.

I guess weapons that fall under the, 'Flexible Weapon' type. Weapons involving a chain, for example or a whip as another example.

So hard to pick just one . . . I guess Rusting Grasp. . . . but seriously Flight, Levitation, Control Weather, Time Stop and countless others all come to mind, because they all fall in my favorite spell school, or, just plain favorite types of spells in general. The weird sorts of spells that don't seem as good as those evocation type spells, at first glance, but may actually be some of the best, or at least far more interesting to play with. Pretty much anything associated with the spell ideas presented in the Transmutation, Illusion, Enchantment or Divination schools, even if we aren't using that system it had some great spell ideas in those schools. Especially Transmutation. As far as I've ever been considered Transmutation held some of the most interesting spell types, period.

What he said. Let's cool it a bit on the heavily stylized art. I miss having some good old fashioned BG art. Mind you, I've no issue with heavily stylized art . . . it's just this particular style, BR as just one example, is a really nice one . . . and far too long neglected. It's just, since we're bringing back the old style Infinity Engine with this project it feels like the perfect time to bring back the visuals associated with them, such as in the portraits or otherwise.

I'd just give more to this project on principal, because I really want this to happen, with as many resources available as possible, but if they were to do another kickstarter oldschool RPG like this, later, after this one is well and finished, I'd dish out quite the sum to fund a truly, truly ancient times inspired alien fantasy RPG.

I see a small problem with the undead - they don't have a soul (or so I heard). Well, a writer can surely bend the rules and come up with something, but still.. dunno. I'm not really for the undead as a race in general, but I'll play the Devil's Advocate quick and say that in some settings the Undead are souls bound corpses are various levels of decomposition, some halting the rot and others not, such things depending on the type of binding, power of the soul or just the setting's rules in general.

Yes, I do realize you can put words in my mouth, regardless of how far flung they are from the very simple and realistic statement that, "That's not how game engines work." I made no commentary beyond that, regardless of your post's implications of the contrary.

I have many thoughts on this particular topic, but your post is pretty much dead-on. I think the thing I'd add is, "Yeah, quest trackers can away from the experience," but, "if there aren't quest trackers people need to give you directions/hints/clues where appropriate, if appropriate, that are sensible and, more importantly, accurate." If you're looking for something hidden, you shouldn't be pointed right to it, but if someone is telling you to go soemwhere 'knows' they should bloody well give you good direction, stress on "good" and they better be recorded in your journal for future reference. Some of the older games at there worst wouldn't provide directions, or, worse yet, would provide you with 'wrong' directions . . . that was discouraging.

That's not how game engines work.

True enough. Sorry, I do tend to ramble. Hhmmm, I deifnitly like the complexity of his outfit. The breast plate does look very ornate, and that makes me think . . . you know what, you're a Mage, magic and all, would your plate just be 'plate' or would you incribe it with wards and such? The ornate etchings on the breast plate you posted made me think of that. And that is very pretty, very intricate. Still I do wonder if there shouldn't also be reason for a Wizard to go a way other than heavy armor, if they so wish, just for choice. I can understand someone who wanted to play a magic using type character not wanting to use heavier armor, and being discouraged if it really is the best, or worse, the only, way to go. Oh I don't doubt it, I just wonder what we'll see more of. I just think about the usual 'sword obsession' you see in RPGs to the point that plenty of other interesting weapons get ignored. I actually think the Rapier is an interesting weapon in general, I just wonder what people will use if given the freedom to use whatever they want. The one hand free thing would be an interesting mechanic, and actually reminds me of DAoC as one of the spell casting classes, that, oddly, used piercing weapons in one hand, would keep one hand free to cast spells. Eh, I'm torn. On one hand I'm actually fine with skimpy and more suggestive armors/clothing as long as the conservative alternative also exists, as well as the middleground styles in between . . . but . . . at the same time the breast bulge on the plate still bugs me. I kind of wish they'd left that out and given her a legitimate breast plate.

I'm not sure why you piled multiplayer and mods into one stack given there are plenty of heavily modded single player games out there.

I prefer the styles seen in the old Fantasy artwork that'd you'd see attached to Dragon Lance and other franchises with similar artwork. Artists like the one that created my avatar as well. I love the painted look of the old fantasy artwork, again I'd point to Dragon Lance, or the portraits for games like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and many other games. Heck the source books for the various editions typicall had great art in them. This is the sort of artwork I appreciate, and I'd love to see more of it. I'd especially love to see a game just plain in that painted style, but that's likely just a pipe dream. ^ Baldur's Gate II (Vampires or Shadow Thieves oh my!) ^ Dragon Lance ^ Icewind Dale (Duh) ^ BG Portrait And so on. The particular style is less important than just the quality of the style, and that what the style depicts is fitting of the themes and moods the game wishes to explore.

Some of those species you posted were really creative looking. Thanks for sharing them. There are those interesting question to ask yourself about what a more alien looking species would look like, walk like, how they'd 'animate' in general, and then tie that into what they'd create, what they'd use, how they'd use it and what they would wear. Some of the art you posted clearly tried to adress such questions. Skeksis rule Gelflings drool.

There's a bit of a genre out there, I guess you could call it 'Alien Fantasy' that, despite the Aliens, is not sci-fi but whole hearted fantasy using very alien creatures and sentient beings. I've seen the genre accused of just being sci-fi because of the nature of some of the different species, but, I've come across quite a few interesting 'races' as a result. I can't help but wonder if an approach that said, "I want to make a more or less original very alien species, as if for a sci-fi but then build them up within the context of a fantasy world" wouldn't result in a couple neat ideas for non-typical, non-human/mixed-human and non-beast races.

I've seen some of your other posts around the forum now. I understand the problem. I'm sorry but I can't continue to talk to you given what I've seen. I'm sure it's possible, if they're really going that way. Though I do wonder how, exactly, what you can wear will be decided. For example if anyone can wear anything regardless of class (provided classes of course) I wonder if there will still be limitations. Like feats to wear particular armors types or skills or maybe simple statistical requirements. Soft limitations anyone can potentially work toward. I suppose they could just allow any equipment at a base too. - On the note about what designs? Hhmmm, I can't help but think we'll see Wizard-type characters ending up in very similar armor to a Cleric or Paladin. You say a Rapier, and that sounds neat, but I can't help but think people will jump right for a sword and shield or what have you. I mean . . . if they have no instant limitation, or ways to work toward wielding whatever they want, I imagine they will right? Maybe it's just one of those things we need more information on.

That would be perfectly reasonable I think. What about something like this? Just looking at this knight at an example. What if there are just item slots for things like tunics that go over your armor that have no statistical value but let you somewhat customize the look of your characters no matter what armor is on underneath. It's not exactly the same thing, but what you're talking about reminds me of Warhammer Online's dye system coupled with its trophies, but of which were visual ways to customize your armor. The dye system was notable for the fact that it would only work on designated parts of the armor, much like your note of the character in that picture having different tunics. In essence a color swap with, possibly, a different texture on the tunic. Still since we're talking infinity engine style game here . . . I'm not even sure we'll be able to get close enough to see much detail. If anything we'll probably just be able to swap the color of things to an extent, which you saw in Infinity Engine games, actually. Right, it doesn't need to be super detailed. But it is 14 years later. I don't think its ridiculous to expect a little bit more detail. I'm not expecting every human male in the game to be the same guy with different colored hair. I'm curious to see the eventual early in game shots to give us a basic idea of what to expect. We'll see eventually. Kind of hard to wait, the entire project is quite exciting.

That would be perfectly reasonable I think. What about something like this? Just looking at this knight at an example. What if there are just item slots for things like tunics that go over your armor that have no statistical value but let you somewhat customize the look of your characters no matter what armor is on underneath. It's not exactly the same thing, but what you're talking about reminds me of Warhammer Online's dye system coupled with its trophies, both of which were visual ways to customize your armor. The dye system was notable for the fact that it would only work on designated parts of the armor, much like your note of the character in that picture having different tunics. In essence a color swap with, possibly, a different texture on the tunic. Still since we're talking infinity engine style game here . . . I'm not even sure we'll be able to get close enough to see much detail. If anything we'll probably just be able to swap the color of things to an extent, which you saw in Infinity Engine games, actually.

From a role-playing perspective I fully understand the people that want to be able to control the look of their character. I enjoy it when customization systems allow for this, as long as it's not completely out of control. There do need to be limitations, such as if a class (just an example) has an armor restriction (just as an example, yes I know) then I'd prefer a customization system keep that armor limitation in place while still allowing you to customize within that. From a role-playing perspective let's remember that the more conservative character typically dressing in dull colors and simple items suddenly finding the rainbow patterned pearl circlet of power . . . might just not feel natural wearing it. To which one can say, "Well don't wear it" to which one reminds them . . . like it or not, in an RPG, statistics, be they character or item statistics, matter. "Don't wear it" has been an excused used repeatedly, by fans of games and their developers, and they've always been shot down, some shot down thoroughly enough that said games now have the customization systems they said they didn't want/wouldn't ever do be that in an update or new iterations of the game (sequels, for example).

I can understand the want for something like this. I have seen it done to certain extents. Whether it be DAoC where new ranks of a Wizard's Fireball would level up visually, or games that used a skill system that slowly increased your proficiency in an ability with use that upgraded its visuals . . . yeah, it's been done before. It's not sensible for every project, but it can definitly be done if fitting for the setting and practical from a development standpoint. The thing is I don't think we know enough about magic in this setting to know if it's fitting, and as for practical from a development standpoint . . . well, that's Obsidian's call by my measure. I guess we'll see.

Elves&Dwarves aren't even new designs. I'm talking about human with blue/red/green faces or face tatoos. Ah the Star Wars the Old Republic things that were supposed to be 'Alien Races' but were really just Humans with face paint sort of thing then? Oddly enough that bugged me because a few of the Star Wars species that they didn't bother with at all were genuinely alien looking. Always made me sad. I know some of the face paint species were genuine Star Wars favorites . . . but still. Bleh.

Well mythology is full of animal headed people though. And since LotR RPG settings have been deriving from mythology. True. It doesn't really make some random author slapping a Human and a Goat together come off as any less lazy to me. If anything it would make it seem even more lazy. Well except for very innovative ones. You can design countless different creatures out of X animal/human combination. What I find lazy is normal human with a little make up. Elves? Bleh. To be honest some of my favorite Fantasy setting just use fictional Humans with ficitional visual racial groupings. I believe the Assassins of Tamurin did that, and took care to keep it fictional and not just parallels to real world races. At the end of the day most races I see writers and developers come up with really are just Human anyways, sure, they might have an Orc or Elf or Cat-Person coat of paint over the Human but they're still pretty much Human just in an Elf suit. If I want a new race, I want a new race, and not just a Human in disguised as something else. One of the literature courses I took in College made us try and take a pretty normal Human being, in terms of how they looked, and make them as alien as possible in personality. It was an excersize of comfort zone, to see just how 'not Human' you could make a character before it could uncomfortable. Oddly enough most people lost their comfort zone really early on, not over major stuff, but over some of the most simple cultural differences that exist right in our world today. Probably says something sad about the fifty something readers the instructor spontaneously drafted.

Well mythology is full of animal headed people though. And since LotR RPG settings have been deriving from mythology. True. It doesn't really make some random author slapping a Human and a Goat together come off as any less lazy to me. If anything it would make it seem even more lazy.

I tend to find the people that can't figure the difference between a robe and a dress baffling. Take a look at your history books. Pants? They weren't a thing for a great mass of time. Clothes came in a great deal of varities prior to, and during, the advent of pants, and most of them would cause the usual drivel spewing gutter brains to call them dresses or skirts. Honestly I didn't like the movie much, but take a look at Troy even . . . not much in the way of pants. I think it was the only thing I actually enjoyed about that waste of film. The costuming was lovely. That said I'm all for variety of magic user type clothing. The more the merrior as far as I'm concerned. Honestly I think you can get really creative with such garb, and pull from a variety of sources to make for interesting magic user wear. However, I'd also remind everyone that there may be no cloth type restriction in the first place . . .

I didn't really see anything in the second tier that I'd ask for. I'm not a fan of reusing the typical fantasy races, but they can be done well. Heck anything can be done well. Beast races, however, have never really sat well with me. Somehow the usual, 'slap together a Human and whatever animal is handy' approach comes off as lazy every time, no matter how well fleshed out they are from a story perspective.

Widespread use is relative to context, time frame and area of the world. Widespread use doesn't mean everywhere or throughout time. Again, untrue, many would have seen consistent use in their time frame. Just look at the cloak mentioned earlier, widespread enough that it's a consistent image in Sumerian carvings. Practical in the modern day or in later periods? No. Practical for them? Yes. Time is funny. Exactly where do you think weapons of war started? The cross over is obvious and it's not a question of the chicken or the egg. Hunting weapons and weapons used in battle, and war, were one in the same in many cases. Did that change eventually? Yes. This is another thing you have to consider time frame by time frame culture by culture context by context and location by location. You're really stuck in a modern mindset, and you're forgeting to look at different time periods, peoples, cultures and locations for what they are. Your 'fact' is a fact to a particular amount of peoples in a particular amount of time. You're not thinking about the very different views of different peoples and cultures in different times and locations. They aren't you. They weren't raised in the world as we know it now. At least when talking about the past. So on that note your: Isn't undeniable, because people throughout history have refused to change, and stuck to their traditions. For a great many people, in fact, throughout time tradition (as just one example) was more important than this adaptation you're talking about. To then death would have been preferable to changing. Even without looking into the past, we can look around the world right now and find multiple examples of people who live in a world full of technology, advanced and glorious and all that . . . but don't partake of it. You have peoples that choose to still live very different lives and very different ways. Some because they have to, others because they want to and some because it's tradition. There's that tradition thing again. Even right in places such as the United States you can view peoples that do this. And it doesn't just happen in one way. One place, again let's say the U.S., you can find a people who prefer a simple farming style of life in accordance with their beliefs and traditions. Across the globe you can find peoples who live out in the jungles, making their own clothing and hunting their own food. Another hop and you find people in dry savana who cake their hair in mud to help prevent head lice, living as they were. Do some people leave these examples, and join the more modern society? Yes. However, others don't. Others live those out of the way no tech or low tech lives. This applies to the clothing they use, the weapons they use, how they hunt and even, yes, how they fight or solve their issues. Yes, even in the modern world there are actually people that don't use guns. Somewhere out there someone is still hunting with a spear, a bow or any number of things that aren't a modern superior weapon and this applies to what they use when they fight. The world is not a straight line where you can say: Because no such fact exists, because if it were a fact then 'everyone would take it' as you put it, but not everyone does. It's easy to think of the entire modern world as cities, cars, skyscrapers, electricity and more . . . and even easier to forget that some people by choice, not even getting into the ones that don't have a choice at all, don't live anything resembling such lives. This is an example of technology, but you'd be amiss if you didn't think it applied to how they fought or what they used to fight with, when it came to it. This: Wasn't true in the past. And it isn't true now. It may be true of some people. It may be true of a culture from which you come in the here and now. Heck, it's probably true of a lot of cultures throughout time, and definitly many now. It is not, however, a fact of all people everywhere throughout time, because if it was you wouldn't have countless examples proving otherwise. Which is what I was saying. Facts are absolute. If what you're saying is not a broad, all encompassing absolute . . . then it's not a fact.